Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

1) I hate seeing ARE returning punts. It seems like he either runs for 20 yards laterally and 0 to -3 yards forward. Put Rock back there. He'll catch the ball and at least fall forward. I'm sick of seeing ARE dance around back there.

2) I'm sick of hearing "Pre-season doesn't matter." We got stomped in the last two games, this board was full of excuses for it. Parts of the pre-season don't matter, things such as the final score or W/L ratio. What does matter is quality of play, especially from your starters. We had bad play, players looked lost, our run defense was bad, etc. That all seemed to translate to Thursday evening.

3) I expected Jim Zorn to experience growing pains. However, I didn't expect his playcalling to be so uninspired. Maybe this says something about JC and the faith Zorn has in him -- I don't know. Something about the short passes right into a tackler every third down short of the sticks I just don't get.

4) Jason Campbell. I know it's a new offense, but he's never looked quite this bad. If we have a top 15 pick, expect Jim Zorn to be taking a QB to groom. Campbell was Gibbs boy, and if he doesn't pick it up don't be surprised to see Zorn go after a guy in the draft. Personally, I like Jason and hope he works out, but if he continues to struggle I see this as a very real possibility.

5) Santana Moss / James Thrash. Stop. Dropping. Balls. You have one job, catch that brown thing whizzing at you. Thrash had a TD and the ball hit him in the shoulder. That is simply inexcusable. Especially in crunch time like that. I really hope these rookie WRs work out so we can ship Moss out.

6) Not everything was bad. The half time adjustments were pretty good. Eli was absolutely abysmal with a little pressure in his face. We got totally smoked in the first half. I don't know why. Rodgers got eaten up by Plax. Smoot I think was okay. Landry was okay.

7) Refs? Hello? PI on smoot? Come on. Toomer extended his arms into his chest for an obvious push off. Brandon Jacobs can slap Marcus Washington across the face and it's fine? The first half seemed like any questionable call went to the Giants.

8) Clock Management. This was terrible. Did we not work on the hurry up? We can't even SPIKE THE BALL EFFICIENTLY. Before half time we didn't use any TOs as the clock was clicking. I was expecting Zorn to call two TOs in a row to make this debacle complete.

9) Anyone still dogging the "So called experts" for picking us 4th in the NFC East? Hell, if we continue to look anything like this, they were giving us far more credit than we deserve. People around here love to bitch when there isn't any fanfare around the team, then never go back and eat crow when they're wrong. I was thinking we'd get 3rd in the division behind the Cowboys/Giants. Now I think the Eagles may shoot ahead, maybe even to 2nd.

I realize it's 1 week. The season is only 1/16th over. It's not the end of the world. Etc. However, there seem to be some problems Im not sure we can fix in a week. We have a tough first five games and it's possible we start 0-5. I'm hunkering in for a long season until I see proof otherwise.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

I completely agree with you about ARE returning punts. He might as well down it.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=Daseal;472903]1) I hate seeing ARE returning punts. It seems like he either runs for 20 yards laterally and 0 to -3 yards forward. Put Rock back there. He'll catch the ball and at least fall forward. I'm sick of seeing ARE dance around back there.
[B]Amen!!! He needs to be shown film of B-Mitch running straight North to South.[/B]

4) Jason Campbell. I know it's a new offense, but he's never looked quite this bad. If we have a top 15 pick, expect Jim Zorn to be taking a QB to groom. Campbell was Gibbs boy, and if he doesn't pick it up don't be surprised to see Zorn go after a guy in the draft. Personally, I like Jason and hope he works out, but if he continues to struggle I see this as a very real possibility.
[B]If we end up with a top pick, we MUST use it to address either the O-line or D-line. We got murdered in the trenches on both sides of the ball.[/B]

6) Not everything was bad. The half time adjustments were pretty good. Eli was absolutely abysmal with a little pressure in his face. We got totally smoked in the first half. I don't know why. Rodgers got eaten up by Plax. Smoot I think was okay. Landry was okay.
[B]I thought the DBs played reasonably well without the benefit of pressure on Eli in the first half. Rogers should have had 2 INTs (one for a TD) which is pretty good considering the serious injury he returned from ahead of schedule.[/B]

7) Refs? Hello? PI on smoot? Come on. Toomer extended his arms into his chest for an obvious push off. Brandon Jacobs can slap Marcus Washington across the face and it's fine? The first half seemed like any questionable call went to the Giants.
[B]Don't forget the quick whistle on Santana's bobbled catch on his back. That should have been a TD. Madden is a waste when it comes to commenting on missed calls. Aikman would have been all over that.[/B]

8) Clock Management. This was terrible. Did we not work on the hurry up? We can't even SPIKE THE BALL EFFICIENTLY. Before half time we didn't use any TOs as the clock was clicking. I was expecting Zorn to call two TOs in a row to make this debacle complete.
[B]Campbell and Zorn need to get their heads in the game regarding the clock management, but I put that more on coaching.[/B]

9) Anyone still dogging the "So called experts" for picking us 4th in the NFC East? Hell, if we continue to look anything like this, they were giving us far more credit than we deserve. People around here love to bitch when there isn't any fanfare around the team, then never go back and eat crow when they're wrong. I was thinking we'd get 3rd in the division behind the Cowboys/Giants. Now I think the Eagles may shoot ahead, maybe even to 2nd.
[B]We are the only team in the division switching to a new offense. Growing pains should be expected, and a 4th place prediction for this season is reasonable.[/B]

I realize it's 1 week. The season is only 1/16th over. It's not the end of the world. Etc. However, there seem to be some problems Im not sure we can fix in a week. We have a tough first five games and it's possible we start 0-5. I'm hunkering in for a long season until I see proof otherwise.[/quote]My comments are inline in bold. As soon as I saw the schedule, I also feared an 0-5 start. Arizona deserved to beat us last year, with Rackers missing the winning kick. The Skins have to play with far greater intensity if they hope to be even mildly competitive in the best division in football.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

The bogus PI call on Smoot really ticked me off. Toomer clearly pushed off.

I didn't understand the non-calls on Jacobs and on Pierce later on when he got in that scuffle with Kendall. Both of them clearly started shit right in front of a ref no less. I don't get it.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

My random thought: I wonder if pepper jack cheese would be good melted over a bratwurst...


ARE is unnerving as a punt returner, I agree. I was concerned about the lack of execution by our starters inm preseason. I really hope they put it together. They've got a lot of work to do on offense. It looks like they didn't have much of a camp... You'd think they'd have come in with some sort of gameplan to match their development... That's Zorns fault.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

EE21 - it is good...

The drops on both sides of the ball have to stop.

Put James Thrash back to take punts.

And figure out how to run a 2 minute offense late in the game.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=Mattyk72;472931]The bogus PI call on Smoot really ticked me off. Toomer clearly pushed off.

I didn't understand the non-calls on Jacobs and on Pierce later on when he got in that scuffle with Kendall. Both of them clearly started shit right in front of a ref no less. I don't get it.[/quote]

To be fair, we got lucky when a facemask penalty was called against the Giants at the end of the first half leading up to our TD that really wasn't a facemask.

However, we got totally robbed on the Santana Moss catch. The one where he bobbled it then got up and took off for what should have been a TD. He was touched before he fully caught the ball, after that he was never downed. That was Antonio Freeman all over again and would have turned the game around.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

Yeah the moss catch was bs. He didn't have the ball until after he was touched.

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[quote=SmootSmack;472937]To be fair, we got lucky when a facemask penalty was called against the Giants at the end of the first half leading up to our TD that really wasn't a facemask.

However, we got totally robbed on the Santana Moss catch. The one where he bobbled it then got up and took off for what should have been a TD. He was touched before he fully caught the ball, after that he was never downed. That was Antonio Freeman all over again and would have turned the game around.[/quote]Did anybody DVR the facemask play? They only replayed the initial contact behind the line of scrimmage (clearly no facemask), but never replayed the actual tackle completed by another player. Agree about the quick whistle on Moss - I thought about Freeman also.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

great call on ARE.. He drives me nuts back there.. Run the direction the ball came from, it's not that hard!

The refs were pretty bad on some of the extra curriculars for sure. Jacobs should have gotten 15 yds for that slap and Pierce for the Kendall scrape.. The PI in the endzone was garbage also.. I think since Moss was hit and went to the ground, even before possession, that was the correct call.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=SmootSmack;472937]
However, we got totally robbed on the Santana Moss catch. The one where he bobbled it then got up and took off for what should have been a TD. He was touched before he fully caught the ball, after that he was never downed. That was Antonio Freeman all over again and would have turned the game around.[/quote]

I'm surprised more people haven't said this. That is 100% accurate. That was a terrible call.
Instead people are talking about the pass interferance call...which, sorry guys, was the CORRECT CALL. We all know PI will go against the DB 9 times out of 10, and if you can show me that he didn't initiate the contact with toomer, then I'll change my view. Sure toomer pushed off, but only after contact. If that was Moss, you guys would sing a different tune, but because it was our defensive player that got called, we are seeing things incorrectly.

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Sorry but a push off is a push off, regardless of who initiated the contact. The PI call was complete horseshit. You can't shove a guy to the ground.

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Did anyone record the Indy Hall of Fame game or the Buffalo game? The offense we saw yesterday had none of the aggressive playcallling we saw in those games. It seems the problems with JC and the offense began with the Jets. The first two drives were horrid and it took a rookie to manage the clock and throw a TD. I'm not calling for Brennan, but what Brennan does have off the back is the ability to read the blitz and get the ball out as fast as possible. JC must improve within the ten days or he will feel the raft of many people including myself who understands this is a new offense but he has to react quicker and make better decisions under pressure. Let's just hope Zorn and JC can work this thing out before Dallas in three weeks because the score won't be pretty.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=Mattyk72;472953]Sorry but a push off is a push off, regardless of who initiated the contact. The PI call was complete horseshit. You can't shove a guy to the ground.[/quote]

So you're saying it's OK to run into the WR to tie him up and that should be a non call?????

For the record, I would have prefered a double penalty on that call, but I understand the call cause the refs protect the WR...we all know this.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

I thought Rock did great, especially when we punted to the giants and he tackled their returner immediatly.

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[quote=jsarno;472961]So you're saying it's OK to run into the WR to tie him up and that should be a non call?????

For the record, I would have prefered a double penalty on that call, but I understand the call cause the refs protect the WR...we all know this.[/quote]

I didn't think the initial contact between them was that significant to draw a penalty. Toomer clearly pushed off and that should have been flagged.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=jsarno;472949]I'm surprised more people haven't said this. That is 100% accurate. That was a terrible call.
Instead people are talking about the pass interferance call...which, sorry guys, was the CORRECT CALL. We all know PI will go against the DB 9 times out of 10, and if you can show me that he didn't initiate the contact with toomer, then I'll change my view. Sure toomer pushed off, but only after contact. If that was Moss, you guys would sing a different tune, but because it was our defensive player that got called, we are seeing things incorrectly.[/quote]

I gotta agree,at first glance I thought it was pi,after replay I changed my mind,and I completely agree,if thats one of our recievers no one is saying thats off pass interference

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=htownskinfan;472974]I gotta agree,at first glance I thought it was pi,after replay I changed my mind,and I completely agree,if thats one of our recievers no one is saying thats off pass interference[/quote]

Thank you...I thought I was the only one.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=SmootSmack;472937]To be fair, we got lucky when a facemask penalty was called against the Giants at the end of the first half leading up to our TD that really wasn't a facemask.

However, we got totally robbed on the Santana Moss catch. The one where he bobbled it then got up and took off for what should have been a TD. He was touched before he fully caught the ball, after that he was never downed. That was Antonio Freeman all over again and would have turned the game around.[/quote]

2 good points you bring up,but what can be done about calls like that on Moss? anything? the refs need to quit blowing that frickin whistle so soon,I was hoping zorn would throw the flag to make replay look at it but i'm sure the refs would just say whistle blown,cant review it

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=Paintrain;472947]great call on ARE.. He drives me nuts back there.. Run the direction the ball came from, it's not that hard!

The refs were pretty bad on some of the extra curriculars for sure. Jacobs should have gotten 15 yds for that slap and Pierce for the Kendall scrape.. The PI in the endzone was garbage also.. [B]I think since Moss was hit and went to the ground, even before possession, that was the correct call.[/B][/quote]A player is not down by contact if he did not establish posession on the catch, gets hit, and is bobbling the ball on the way down. Once Moss gained possession on his back, he should have been free to get up an run UNLESS he was touched down AFTER gaining posession. The refs have been coached to avoid the quick whistle since that voids replay in that situation. They blew the call, plain and simple.

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[quote=SouperMeister;472991]A player is not down by contact if he did not establish posession on the catch, gets hit, and is bobbling the ball on the way down. Once Moss gained possession on his back, he should have been free to get up an run UNLESS he was touched down AFTER gaining posession. The refs have been coached to avoid the quick whistle since that voids replay in that situation. They blew the call, plain and simple.[/quote]

Absolutely right. This is not college.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

The call on Moss being down was BS. Pierce has become a punk, and I guarantee you if Marcus would have slapped Jacobs back they would have thrown a flag on him. This might sound crazy but I feel there are good things to come. But please, PLEASE, get someone else to return PUNTS!!!

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

But smoot had his head turned and the ball was in the air... Doesn't that negate a PI for incidental contact?

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=jsarno;472961]So you're saying it's OK to run into the WR to tie him up and that should be a non call?????

For the record, I would have prefered a double penalty on that call, but I understand the call cause the refs protect the WR...we all know this.[/quote]

I have to agree with you on this. When I watched the play, it was clear that Smoot was running into Toomer before/at the same time as he started pushing off. Smoot sucked out loud last night.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=SUNRA;472955]Did anyone record the Indy Hall of Fame game or the Buffalo game? The offense we saw yesterday had none of the aggressive playcallling we saw in those games. It seems the problems with JC and the offense began with the Jets. The first two drives were horrid and it took a rookie to manage the clock and throw a TD. I'm not calling for Brennan, but what Brennan does have off the back is the ability to read the blitz and get the ball out as fast as possible. JC must improve within the ten days or he will feel the raft of many people including myself who understands this is a new offense but he has to react quicker and make better decisions under pressure. Let's just hope Zorn and JC can work this thing out before Dallas in three weeks because the score won't be pretty.[/quote]

Yes and I totally agree with you.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=SouperMeister;472991]A player is not down by contact if he did not establish posession on the catch, gets hit, and is bobbling the ball on the way down. Once Moss gained possession on his back, he should have been free to get up an run UNLESS he was touched down AFTER gaining posession. The refs have been coached to avoid the quick whistle since that voids replay in that situation. They blew the call, plain and simple.[/quote]

yeah that was a weird play. moss clearly didnt have possession until after contact and he then wedged it against his butt check and brought it in, then he should have been able to get up and take it to the house. I was screaming for moss to keep running but the whistle had blown. Just such a weird play I cant really blame the refs but im still scratching my head on when exactly the refs thought he had possession to count as a catch then consider him down by contact?

i know refs were instructed to not blow the quick whistle on potential fumble/down by contact plays a few years ago but this play was like david tyree but moss used his butt cheek.

smoot PI play, i didnt see smoot with his head turned toward the ball. to me he def made/initiated contact with toomer without having his eye on the ball. pretty easy call but i do hope they call offensive pushing off more because TO (like most big good wrs) loves doing that in the endzone and it is sooooooo frustrating to watch.

go skins!

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[quote=htownskinfan;472974]I gotta agree,at first glance I thought it was pi,after replay I changed my mind,and I completely agree,if thats one of our recievers no one is saying thats off pass interference[/quote]

Ya I agree also. That is a homer call that you agree with if it is your receiver and think it is a bad call if you are on defense. But you see that call made many times thru the season against the defensive guy. You can't initiate contact with the receiver and he clearly did. The best we could have hoped for was a noncall, but that almost always gets called against the db.

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[quote]4) Jason Campbell. I know it's a new offense, but he's never looked quite this bad. If we have a top 15 pick, expect Jim Zorn to be taking a QB to groom. Campbell was Gibbs boy, and if he doesn't pick it up don't be surprised to see Zorn go after a guy in the draft. Personally, I like Jason and hope he works out, but if he continues to struggle I see this as a very real possibility.

If we end up with a top pick, we MUST use it to address either the O-line or D-line. We got murdered in the trenches on both sides of the ball.[/quote]

The problem is we used our 3 top picks for receivers. Can you really afford to wait another year if you decide Campbell is not the answer? I think if there is a QB there you have to take him. I personally wanted to address the line with at least one of those picks this year, but we didn't so if they lose faith in the QB then need to fix that quickly. Hopefully Campbell turns it around and this becomes a non issue thou.

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[quote=BDBohnzie;472934]EE21 - it is good...

The drops on both sides of the ball have to stop.

Put James Thrash back to take punts.

And figure out how to run a 2 minute offense late in the game.[/quote]Put Thrash out with the trash...

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=Mattyk72;472931]The bogus PI call on Smoot really ticked me off. Toomer clearly pushed off.

I didn't understand the non-calls on Jacobs and on Pierce later on when he got in that scuffle with Kendall. Both of them clearly started shit right in front of a ref no less. I don't get it.[/quote]

I agree about the PI call, but 9 times out of 10, they're going to call the DB for PI and not the receiver.

Don't worry, Kendall got even with Pierce by ripping AP's helmet off and then headbutting him. Shut Pierce up after that. I cracked up laughing when I saw Kendall do that.

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The Redskins' offensive line is really bad, and Jason made them look worse than they are. That first play that the Redskins ran was terrible, and we weren't ready to play a team with a defense like the Giants. Plus if the Giants had continued to run the ball, we would have lost by 30 points.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

That PI call on Smoot was iffy, for sure. Probably should not have been offensive PI either, and most likely should have been a non-call. Smoot's head was turning towards the ball, and contact was initiated by both players. IMO, it should have been a play that the refs shouldn't have interfered in at all.

For anyone wanting to dissect the minutiae of the rule to make their case...
[url=http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/passinterference]NFL Rules Digest: Pass Interference[/url]

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[quote=skinsguy;473085]I agree about the PI call, but 9 times out of 10, they're going to call the DB for PI and not the receiver.

Don't worry, Kendall got even with Pierce by ripping AP's helmet off and then headbutting him. Shut Pierce up after that. I cracked up laughing when I saw Kendall do that.[/quote]

Kendall gets the Lineman of the Week Award. He may be old and hurting, but don't sleep on him. He's a fighter.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

Daseal:

1. ARE returns punts to earn his keep. He certainly hasn't shown he can earn that kind of bread as a WR.

2. You are exactly right about the exhibition games. What matters is the precision with which the units play. And in the last two exhibition games, the Skins were sloppy and dis-spirited.

3. This is Zorn's first time calling plays for real. And the Giants' defense is pretty good. I'll give Zone a mulligan here.

4. I liked Campbell in the Gibbs/Saunders offense. He certainly has not mastered Zorn's offense and looks very uncomfortable back there.

5. WR was the biggest shortcoming of the Skins on 07. The same guys are out there in 08. Just to clarify: That's not good.

6. Redskins defense played better in 2nd half to be sure.

7. Officiating was not good. However as Smootsmack pointed out, the Sklins got a 15 yard facemask penalty thgat put them in scoring position just before the half when not a single Giant touched the facemask. There were bad calls - - both ways.

8. If the Skins start out 0-5, the season is a disaster. That should not happen...

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

[quote=SmootSmack;472937]To be fair, we got lucky when a facemask penalty was called against the Giants at the end of the first half leading up to our TD that really wasn't a facemask.

[B]However, we got totally robbed on the Santana Moss catch. The one where he bobbled it then got up and took off for what should have been a TD. He was touched before he fully caught the ball, after that he was never downed.[/B] That was Antonio Freeman all over again and would have turned the game around.[/quote]

Couldn't we have challenged that the runner was not down by contact? Im just asking to see if this was something that Zorn could of challenged. Im not sure what the outcome would have been if overturned because Moss did not continue to the endzone anyway.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

dont think it can be challenged cuz the whistle was blown period.

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[quote=Mattyk72;472931]The bogus PI call on Smoot really ticked me off. Toomer clearly pushed off.

I didn't understand the non-calls on Jacobs and on Pierce later on when he got in that scuffle with Kendall. Both of them clearly started shit right in front of a ref no less. I don't get it.[/quote]

I've been watching the Skins for years and that just seems typical of the ref's. I remember years ago when Jeff George was our quarterback. Dallas sacked him, then the guy grabbed him by the jersey right below his neck and dragged him down the field 3-5 yards while he celebrated. No flag. It blows my mind.

Re: Daseal's Random Thoughts:
 

I think you can challenge down by contact.

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We can talk all we want about calls and no calls, but we were out-played and out-coached in this game. I liked that the D re-grouped at halftime and made adjustments, I think they'll be a pretty good unit (especially as Mac, Taylor and Carlos get more into the swing - and Landry too after not playing all pre-season). And don't underestimate how big it is not having Springs out there on Thursday night.

I was big time disappointed in Zorn and to some degree Campbell. Zorn didn't seem to adjust, and was lost in time management. Hated the play calls (1 look to Cooley all night, are you kidding me!!?) But I believe Zorn will improve as the season progresses. Campbell still holds the ball too long and takes too few chances (the last drives were pathetic, we were two scores down, take a shot downfield and stop dumping it off). Campbell worries me a bit....

But the doom and gloom I keep hearing is ridiculous (JLC needs to be thrown out of town). It's one game and we lost by only 9 points IN Giants Stadium to a team that won the Super Bowl (and we held them to 16). With a new coach and a new offense, I'd say lets give them a break and see what happens over the next few weeks....

My 2 cents...

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I get tired of seeing the Dallas Cowboys go from the worst team in the NFL just 3-5 years ago (it could be longer) to being predicted as being in the Super Bowl this year while the Redskins seem to be getting older and weaker every year. I expected more this year.