In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[COLOR="DarkRed"][/COLOR]So I'm as happy as a pig in sh*t! A serious and down right TEAM win today! That being said....over our last few wins I have felt like Zorn has this "connection" with the team. Something that was missing before. And I think his personal attention to Campbell is really key.
My point is, we were all a little concerned when he was hired a HC. But maybe his youth is what makes him understand today's game better. (Hell of a call on 4th & 1 today) And allows him to have a closer connection to the entire team.

Sorry Joe G....I love ya. But maybe the game had passed you by.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

I don't think Zorn's success takes away from anything Gibbs did here. Would we be 4-1 with Gibbs as our coach? I don't think so. But Gibbs brought the personnel to get the job done, made sure our players had the character and drive, and established everything that Zorn has been able to execute so well.

All in all I'm glad we had both coaches!!

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

Ill be honest after the Giants game I thought Coach Z was a bonehead. I retract that. And I trully believe hes a great coach. The team has really taken to this offense. And hes running the football.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

He utilized Cooley properly

big time difference

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

It's simple, just like in Dallas; Gibbs should get most of the credit for creating foremost the character and assembly of this team and of course some great coaching by Zorn.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

No way Gibbs should get "most of the credit." Gibbs brought some good players into DC, no doubt about it. However, Gibbs wasn't winning with said players, he wasn't aggressive like Zorn is, and he wasn't winning games like Zorn is.

Gibbs did some good things, but if you break it down to coaching. Gibbs II doesn't compare to Zorn thus far.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=tryfuhl;486061]He utilized Cooley properly

big time difference[/quote]

Actually....its about time! He really wasn't thrown to much till today's game. And the results paid off. (4-5 catches and a TD) The guys got great hands! We need to keep getting the ball to him.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=Takeuon;486028][COLOR="DarkRed"][/COLOR]But maybe his youth is what makes him understand today's game better. (Hell of a call on 4th & 1 today) And allows him to have a closer connection to the entire team.

Sorry Joe G....I love ya. But maybe the game had passed you by.[/quote]

I dont know how old you are...but try making that call in the 4th quarter of a SUPER BOWL...Joe Gibbs did the same thing...and the call resulted in the biggest play in Redskins history.

Don't dis Joe Gibbs...it is his character that has basically run out victories in the last 2 divisional games.

Gibbs is AWESOME.

Zorn pass offense plus Gibbs Run offense + character is what you see....and ... WOW what a combo!!

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

Isn't virtually every player here, except for the Rooks, people Joe gibbs brought in?

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=Daseal;486065]No way Gibbs should get "most of the credit." Gibbs brought some good players into DC, no doubt about it. However, Gibbs wasn't winning with said players, he wasn't aggressive like Zorn is, and he wasn't winning games like Zorn is.

Gibbs did some good things, but if you break it down to coaching. Gibbs II doesn't compare to Zorn thus far.[/quote]

How about the job he did last year with all those injuries and , especially to the OL and ST's death? Are you forgetting? You think Zorn could have done that? I doubted. Campbell matured last year, he arrived after the Dallas loss in Dallas, we couldn't run a lot of the plays with the right side of the line missing and therefore Campbell wasn't as effective as he is this year. Yes, they held him back so he wouldn't get killed and then he got injured. OL being healthy is the difference this year.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=Daseal;486065]No way Gibbs should get "most of the credit." Gibbs brought some good players into DC, no doubt about it. However, Gibbs wasn't winning with said players, he wasn't aggressive like Zorn is, and he wasn't winning games like Zorn is.

Gibbs did some good things, but if you break it down to coaching. Gibbs II doesn't compare to Zorn thus far.[/quote]

You're 100% correct and that's not a slap in the face to Gibbs. But Zorn is coaching his ass off. Right before the half if that was Gibbs I bet we sit on the ball and let the half end. And we all know Gibbs would have never gone for that 4th and 1. Zorn is coaching to win where Gibbs coached not to lose. I didn't like the hire at first but I believe in this guy now. Kudos to Dan and Vinny for having the balls to hire him.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;486071]How about the job he did last year with all those injuries and , especially to the OL and ST's death? Are you forgetting? You think Zorn could have done that? I doubted. Campbell matured last year, he arrived after the Dallas loss in Dallas, we couldn't run a lot of the plays with the right side of the line missing and therefore Campbell wasn't as effective as he is this year. Yes, they held him back so he wouldn't get killed and then he got injured. OL being healthy is the difference this year.[/quote]

That was last year and the defense had a lot to do with that. Stop giving all the credit to Gibbs.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;486071]How about the job he did last year with all those injuries and , especially to the OL and ST's death? Are you forgetting? You think Zorn could have done that? I doubted. Campbell matured last year, he arrived after the Dallas loss in Dallas, we couldn't run a lot of the plays with the right side of the line missing and therefore Campbell wasn't as effective as he is this year. Yes, they held him back so he wouldn't get killed and then he got injured. OL being healthy is the difference this year.[/quote]

Yes...yes...thanks Joe for assembling and keeping together this bunch of character guys, but thanks also for stepping down when you realized you couldn't get us to the SB.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

It's just so damn refreshing to have a coach who plays to win. This is what we've needed for the last four years!!!! Did anyone see Zorn on the sidelines before the 4th and 1 call? He wasn't even thinking about punting. He knew we were pushing around the Eagles front 7.

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I really don't understand why praise for Zorn automatically warrants a backhanded swipe at Gibbs everytime. What purpose does it serve and why stop there? Let's compare Zorn to every coach since Gibbs' first retirement. It's ridiculous. I've seen these comments over and over on various sites since the season started and I'm sick of it.

Don't get me wrong. I want more than anything for Zorn to succeed. I want our fans to experience the same things I did growing up watching a winning franchise. Joe Gibbs inherited a mess when he came back and didn't owe anyone squat. If you're going to continually judge him, then step back and look at the big picture. If anyone says Gibbs left this team worse than when he started, then you're either a complete idiot or you simply get your jollies tearing down a man who has given more to this franchise than any one else in its history. Did Gibbs make mistakes? Sure he did and so will Zorn. When that happens, please don't make excuses for him. I expect everyone who thinks Zorn is the greatest thing since sliced bread to criticize him with the same fervancy they continue to do with Gibbs.

What I find completely ironic is the people that said the Gibbs homers should just let him go and move on when he retired, are the same people who keep bringing him back up, only to offer criticism or take jabs at him. It was hard for me letting Gibbs go, but I moved on. I don't feel the need to compare the two. I've embraced Zorn and I'm excited at the things he's doing here. I hope he surpasses what Gibbs did and brings us 4 Lombardis. Zorn's successes will only add to our legacy. They should not and will not diminish what Gibbs accomplished.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

And here comes the battle of Old School and New School! The NFL is not the same game as it was 20 years ago. I don't care what anyone says. It's faster, more athletic, more aggressive and more convoluted. It's obvious that our players NOW are buying into what their being sold. Several of our key players including Clinton Portis have even been vocal about this in a round about way. I've met Joe Gibbs on numerous occasions and he's the best model for what we humans could be. But I have to agree with Hurrykaine. I believe a big part of his decision to retire was that he realized that the game has changed and he wasn't the man to take us all the way.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=hurrykaine;486108]Yes...yes...thanks Joe for assembling and keeping together this bunch of character guys, but thanks also for stepping down when you realized you couldn't get us to the SB.[/quote]

I think this is exactly right, and the greatness that is JG. He surely could have stayed, everyone wanted him to, but he knew that the Skins could do better. It takes a heck of a person to be willing to do that. And Zorn has been outstanding. He was chomping at the bit to be a coach, and the Redskins are lucky that Dan and Vinny took the chance on him.

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Is it fair to even start comparing Gibbs and Zorny? but on a different note. Did anyone see Zorny when Devin Thomas Got called for interference. You could see him lip "come on Devin" then it looked like he was runnin from a fight and ran into someone on the sideline. Lets just all start living this moment up. We just freakin beat the two most hated teams in a row. I love what Gibbs did for this organation, But you old timers need to stop living in the past and give Zorny and the boys some credit. Sorry I started to rant

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=SeanTaGodsSafety;486172][B]Is it fair to even start comparing Gibbs and Zorny?[/B] but on a different note. Did anyone see Zorny when Devin Thomas Got called for interference. You could see him lip "come on Devin" then it looked like he was runnin from a fight and ran into someone on the sideline. Lets just all start living this moment up. We just freakin beat the two most hated teams in a row. [B]I love what Gibbs did for this organation, But you old timers need to stop living in the past and give Zorny and the boys some credit. Sorry I started to rant[/B][/quote]
Exactly. How about we wait four years and not five games before comparing the two.

As to your other point, the "old timers" aren't the ones who are continually bringing Gibbs up in the conversation. I'm completely content with praising Zorn without feeling the need to thank Gibbs in the same breath.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

Let's not argue fellas, Joe Gibbs was great. That was then, this is now. Let us bask in the greatness that is Jim Zorn. Hopefully he is the next legendary coach in the story of the Washington Redskins. Maybe he can lead us to the top in his time here. Who knows? We could lose every game for the rest of the season and he could be fired next year...

I don't think so though. I think our FO found us a gem...

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;486171]I think this is exactly right, and the greatness that is JG. He surely could have stayed, everyone wanted him to, but he knew that the Skins could do better. It takes a heck of a person to be willing to do that. And Zorn has been outstanding. He was chomping at the bit to be a coach, and the Redskins are lucky that Dan and Vinny took the chance on him.[/quote]

Agreed - very unselfish of Joe to clear the way for another coach to take the team that he built to the next level.

Lady Brave - I don't think posters are dying to take a swipe at Gibbs any which way they can - its only natural to compare your current coach with the last coach. Zorn might not come close to accomplishing what Gibbs achieved here, but the fact that his playcalling is in stark contrast to what we've seen under Gibbs does warrant calling out.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=hurrykaine;486190]Agreed - very unselfish of Joe to clear the way for another coach to take the team that he built to the next level.

Lady Brave - I don't think posters are dying to take a swipe at Gibbs any which way they can - its only natural to compare your current coach with the last coach. Zorn might not come close to accomplishing what Gibbs achieved here, but the fact that his playcalling is in stark contrast to what we've seen under Gibbs does warrant calling out.[/quote]

How much is it really though? I mean I agree there are differences, but we are pounding the ball (like Gibbs), using the motion offense (like Gibbs) albeit more judiciously, and last week in our clinching drive it was a pound it out drive that ended with a field goal (something we complained a lot about with Gibbs "Why isn't he going for the TD kill?!". Not to mention we seem to be converting more 3rd and short plays on the ground than in previous years.

Gibbs should get credit for restoring pride in the franchise and putting the next coach in position to succeed. Zorn, as the next coach, should get credit for taking what has been given to him and improving upon it (to this point in his very brief career). One doesn't have to be put down to elevate the other.

I think the biggest differences between the two is a) you know that this is Zorn's offense, as opposed to the Gibbs vs Saunders scenario and b) the players seem a bit more relaxed, almost like they didn't want to let a legend down so they played tight.

But bottom line, kudos to both of them.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=hurrykaine;486190]Lady Brave - I don't think posters are dying to take a swipe at Gibbs any which way they can - its only natural to compare your current coach with the last coach. Zorn might not come close to accomplishing what Gibbs achieved here, but the fact that his playcalling is in stark contrast to what we've seen under Gibbs does warrant calling out.[/quote]
I think there are people who are dying to take a swipe at him, because any success Zorn has justifies any criticisms they ever had of Gibbs, no matter how insignifcant they might be.

I guess you haven't been reading the same things I have. I'm not speaking specifically of the members of this board. I frequent a lot of different sites and I've read lots of articles that all say the same thing praising Zorn and faulting Gibbs in the same sentence. I've got a lot of respect for Gibbs and I just think he deserves better. He overcame and suffered through a lot of things while he was here both personally and professionally. Again, I just think people lose sight of the big picture when evaluating Gibbs and I think that's a shame.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

When Gibbs retired didn't he say he would still be giving advice? Zorn and Gibbs have a lot in common. I think we are seening the second part of Gibbs now.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

I do believe that Gibbs and Co. got this thing started. Turned around a losing culture. 2 of the last three years this team has been a playoff team. Gibbs brought in the character and talent. Buges installed the running game and help build our OLINE.

Zorn brought in fresh ideas and a new passing game. He has brought an aggressive attitude to the Offense that finally matches the intesity of our D. This has been a great combo. I really hope they keep winning and they don't start to get cocky. I think Zorn will be a good leader and it seems as though the team has really adopted an underdog every week type of mentality that has given them an edge.

3 Cheers for Zorn and the Redskins!! HIP HIP HOORAAY!!

Could we see coach of the week honors this week?
Hope about a FED EX ground award for Portis?

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

No one gave us a chance to beat the Eagles, and it's kind of fun to see them squirm as they try to justify their picks. Terry Bradshaw, Howie Long, Michael Strahan, and Jimmy Johnson all picked the Eagles to win. They didn't give the Redskins a chance...But this is a completely different team from the ones that Coach Gibbs led on his second go around.

I love Joe Gibbs and the memories of the Redskins teams of the '80s and '90s. Jim Zorn isn't a better coach than Gibbs simply because he's winning. Rather, he's winning because this year he finally has a healthy offensive line and the offense is just plain playing with more confidence. And I love the way Zorn gets into each game and adds to the confidence of each player.

I think we have a better defensive coach now in Greg Blatche, because I think he, like Zorn, passes the credit for winning around to his assistants and his players. My day is complete...the Redskins beat the Eagles in Philadelphis, right after beating the Cowboys in Dallas.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

A head coach leads his team into battle. However, a coach can only do so much. For an organization to be successful, you need all of the pieces. A good owner, good scouting, good head coach and coaching staff and of course good players. I think often times too much credit/blame is often put on the coach's shoulders.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=Lady Brave;486206]I think there are people who are dying to take a swipe at him, because any success Zorn has justifies any criticisms they ever had of Gibbs, no matter how insignifcant they might be.

I guess you haven't been reading the same things I have. I'm not speaking specifically of the members of this board. I frequent a lot of different sites and I've read lots of articles that all say the same thing praising Zorn and faulting Gibbs in the same sentence. I've got a lot of respect for Gibbs and I just think he deserves better. He overcame and suffered through a lot of things while he was here both personally and professionally. Again, I just think people lose sight of the big picture when evaluating Gibbs and I think that's a shame.[/quote]

Lady Brave you are spot on. A lot of members in this forum were saying Campbell sucked and they wanted Colt, Jansen was washed up and we should cut him, this same folks were all over Zorn after the loss to the Giants. It's sad to have so many fair weather members on this forum and not appreciate what Gibbs has done for this franchise. I'll say it again, the difference between last year and this year is a healthy OL. Joe left us in great shape, enough said.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

Gibbs righted the ship and built the team, not to mention the fact that Buges run game is a Gibbs product. And you saw it in action today. Finally, Gibbs went out on a limb to get JC.

But Kudos to Zorn for effectively blending his WC offense with what was best in JGs. And Zorn's ability to adapt to what the D gives reminds me a lot of Gibbs one. And the beautiful red zone calls the last few weeks! Boot to Yoder, perfectly timed draws to CP, the motion to Thrash that left Newman tangled in his own jock, and the killer ARE option pass off motion and a REVERSE! That's very sweet stuff.

Both coaches deserve credit here, but it's Zorn's team now. The buck stops with him, and he's been stepping up big time!

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

This is how I feel about this Gibbs is a Hall of Fame coach, Super Bowl winner (3x) I'm only 23 years old born in 1985. So I was a little little one when Gibbs was coaching so didn't get to enjoy the 80's or 90's much really. Big props to Gibbs for getting the personnel that Zorn inherited. But Gibbs didn't have the connection with the same exact team that he Gibbs assembled. I don't think anyone will or would bash Gibbs especially after last year. [B]To me last year performance speak louder volumes than Gibbs 1.0 with the three super bowls.[/B] Losing a teammate, friend, warrior in Sean T, his personal family matters, Injuries Rocky, Carlos, Campbell, Jansen, Thomas and others. But where Gibbs couldn't execute Zorn is executing and old heads have to give props to Zorn for that plus Zorn has even been a offensive coordinator, play caller or nothing before this he was literally thrown in the fire that's where he should get all the praise.

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[quote=Redskin Warrior;486245] Zorn is executing and old heads have to give props to Zorn for that plus Zorn has even been a offensive coordinator, play caller or nothing before this he was literally thrown in the fire that's where he should get all the praise.[/quote]

Look at Seattle now, I wonder who the offensive brain for that franchise was? I wonder if they miss him :)

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;486275]Look at Seattle now, I wonder who the offensive brain for that franchise was? I wonder if they miss him :)[/quote]

Well Holmgrem is the OC and he calls the plays for Seattle. They've just run into some real hard luck with injuries and a below average offensive line.

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They got Bill Lazor, we got Jim Zorn...seems like a pretty fair trade :)

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[quote=SmootSmack;486348]They got Bill Lazor, we got Jim Zorn...seems like a pretty fair trade :)[/quote]

:lol:I'll take that deal every time.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=skinsfan69;486111]It's just so damn refreshing to have a coach who plays to win. This is what we've needed for the last four years!!!! Did anyone see Zorn on the sidelines before the 4th and 1 call? He wasn't even thinking about punting. He knew we were pushing around the Eagles front 7.[/quote]Amen Brother!!! Gibbs would have punted and put the game in the hands of Gregg Williams's D. From the big 4th down pass to put away the New Orleans victory to this, Zorn is utterly unafraid to put the game in the hands of his offensive players when they have a chance to seal the deal.

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[quote=SouperMeister;486380]Amen Brother!!! Gibbs would have punted and put the game in the hands of Gregg Williams's D. From the big 4th down pass to put away the New Orleans victory to this, Zorn is utterly unafraid to put the game in the hands of his offensive players when they have a chance to seal the deal.[/quote]

To play devil's advocate, how much of this do you think is due to lack of faith in Brooks right now?

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=SmootSmack;486396]To play devil's advocate, how much of this do you think is due to lack of faith in Brooks right now?[/quote]

I don't think that has much to do with it. If Brooks was that bad, wouldn't we have tried to cut our losses with him and at the very least brought other punters in for a workout? These very short 4th downs we're going for are really in keeping with the style of playcalling Zorn has shown overall.

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As a Seahawks fan I ask you to please give Jim Zorn back!!! But for real I am glad my second favorite team is doing well

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=erik2680;486472]As a Seahawks fan I ask you to please give Jim Zorn back!!! But for real I am glad my second favorite team is doing well[/quote]

And we hope that Billy McMullen is a mainstay in Seattle, we miss him.

Re: In Jim Zorn we trust!....
 

[quote=skinsfan69;486343]Well Holmgrem is the OC and he calls the plays for Seattle. They've just run into some real hard luck with injuries and a below average offensive line.[/quote] I can believe that. After all, Holmgren has won the SB, but I don't know if Zorn was on that staff.