Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

Something that's been bugging me the last 2 weeks is the complete disappearance of Santana Moss. I know that the Rams and Eagles basically sold out to stop him, but Zorn needs to get creative and get the ball in his hands. Screens, put him in motion, reverses, whatever, just get him the damn ball. He's just too talented to have 2 catches in 2 weeks, and he's too valuable to this offense to let defenses take him out of the gameplan.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

agreed!

and if defenses are taking him out of the game so successfully, we need to do a much better job of exploiting the coverage holes that are left by doubling him.

the way cooley made the eagles pay for focusing on santana, is what needs to happen EVERY time. we did not do that against the rams.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

While I don't agree with forcing the ball to someone in spite of the defense (a la T.O.) I think Z has to do a better job of making sure Moss touches the ball more. Do the bubble screens, run a reverse or two, run him on a shallow drag pattern, etc. He needs to get the ball if for nothing more than to keep defenses honest.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

I agree. They need to start moving him around in motion and even run some reverses with him. Or they could run some screens early in the game when the defense isn't expecting it.

What kills me the most is that he's my starting WR on my fantasy team and he hasn't given me $hit in the last two weeks.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

I couldn't agree more. JC also needs to give him more opportunity and not always go for the check down because he's being covered. Sometimes you gotta take a shot!

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

lots of good thoughts from ya'll. i agree that teams focusing in on moss has helped cooley rack up catches and yards and i think that is something we must continue to be successful at if Ds continue to gameplan around moss.

to add your alls suggestion of bubble screens, etc i would like to see some drag routes out of moss like he did for his first td catch this year and what the boys did with TO in the second half against us when we were doubling TO. drag him across the field so he can use his speed to get separation if its man coverage, it its zone JC hits him as the cb releases moss to an inside zone defender who hasnt picked him up yet.

truth be told, from what weve seen from coach zorn is that he is very studious about identifying problems and implementing adjustments to take care of those problems.

go skins!!

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

If we protect Jason Campbell better, he'll be able to find Moss downfield. I disagree that we should be running bad plays just so Moss touches the ball. However, if the defense is overpursuing, thats another story.

Here's how to protect the QB better.

[B]Jason Fabini[/B] Don't ever see the field.
[B]Casey Rabach[/B] You're a 9 year veteran. Learn how to sort out the protections.
[B]Jon Jansen[/B] Get him help against top pass rushing LEs. Jansen gives way too much ground with Portis to help. He almost always ends the play in Campbell's hip pocket. If you are beat, Portis will chip your guy back into harms way.
[B]Randy Thomas[/B] You need better leverage off the snap. If you win the first step, it's all over.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

how about some motions/screens to give him an edge?

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

Jason Campbell has not thrown a TD in 10 quarters...WTF...Zorn has discovered and is falling in love with this thing called a running game. I wouldn't expect to see too much more of Campbell and Moss...niether will make the probowl this year for the simple reason that Gibbs left behind a power running team. He really is putting an emphasis on the running game which is justified by the unnecessary signing of Alexander. But I do miss seeing the Campbell-Moss connection, I thought it would be our backbone for years to come.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

It'd probably also help if Moss could hold on to the balls that are thrown his way.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

[quote=GTripp0012;490120]If we protect Jason Campbell better, he'll be able to find Moss downfield. I disagree that we should be running bad plays just so Moss touches the ball. However, if the defense is overpursuing, thats another story.

Here's how to protect the QB better.

[B]Jason Fabini[/B] Don't ever see the field.
[B]Casey Rabach[/B] You're a 9 year veteran. Learn how to sort out the protections.
[B]Jon Jansen[/B] Get him help against top pass rushing LEs. Jansen gives way too much ground with Portis to help. He almost always ends the play in Campbell's hip pocket. If you are beat, Portis will chip your guy back into harms way.
[B]Randy Thomas[/B] You need better leverage off the snap. If you win the first step, it's all over.[/quote]
I thought one of the newer issues with this offense was that JC had to take care of a lot more of the protection calls rather than Rabach?

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

Maybe our other recievers can step up and make a big play (Kelly and Thomas, Im talking about you), they could defelect attention from moss. ARE and Cooley are doing great but we need another credible threat.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

It's great to see that Campbell hasn't thrown an interception this year, but INTs are not always the result of a bad throw or decision but sometimes the result of a well weighed risk. When you see that a team's deep passing game is suffering and that the team hasn't thrown any interceptions, you could make the argument that the team and the QB need to take more risks.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

[quote=Southpaw;490179]It'd probably also help if Moss could hold on to the balls that are thrown his way.[/quote]

1-You have to make those catches. 2-Campbell needs the line to play better. 3-The Philadelphia game was a perfect example of what to do if he is going to be the main focus of the defense.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

Please, please try to get the ball to him more! He's been hurting my fantasy team! haha Seriously though....I get the whole he's not getting thrown to as much "but he's an on field threat". Therefore he is being double covered. But some properly placed slant passes and I know some one on ones have to be opening up to allow him to break it open!

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

[quote=J. Spanky;490094]agreed!

and if defenses are taking him out of the game so successfully, we need to do a much better job of exploiting the coverage holes that are left by doubling him.

t[B]he way cooley made the eagles pay for focusing on santana, is what needs to happen EVERY time. we did not do that against the rams.[/B][/quote]

The Skins did make them pay...unfortunately we turned it over 3 times deep in Rams territory that took at LEAST 10 points off the board and 7 on the board for them.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

I didnt realize the fact that JC hasnt thrown a TD in 10 quarters. I think Zorn needs to open the playbook a little more and get some passes downfield. To Moss, ARE, Cooley, Thomas.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

they have to figure a way to get santanna the ball,either on reverses,or those wr screen passes.everytime he touches the ball he could go all the way.they have to figure every team we play is gonna try to contain him.hopefully,he'll have a big game sunday.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

Two words: Flea Flicker!!! TD 70yds Santana Moss

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

santanna can play until he's 60,but the two tds he scored against dallas in 2005 at dallas,will always be the ones he's remembered for.just like rusty tillman will always be remembered for blocking 2 punts in dallas in george allen's last year.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

Zorn is a former qb I'm sure he will continue to throw the ball. Some games you have to take what they give, Even randy moss was taken completly out of the playoffs last year after catching 23 tds during the season. If teams want to take someone out they will. We just gotta make them pay and I think we will. Look ARE had almost 100 yrds agains the rams so Campbell is finding other recievers. Take away the fumbles we win by 20. We're averaging close to 400 yrds total offense nothing wrong with that.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

Good thread. SM has always had a tendancy to get lost for a few games. Coach Z has got to draw some plays up to get him the ball early and often. Even though El is a decent WR a lack of a true threat allows D's to focus on SM.

So, yea SM needs the damn ball. We also need to throw some TD passes this week.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

As much as I want Moss to be getting the ball, the offense is succeeding whether he is targeted or not. In the Rams & Eagles game, they blanketed Moss - and CP runs for over a hundred & Cooley and ARE make a ton of catches. I would be concerned if Moss was not getting the ball AND we weren't taking advantage of it through other players.

The WCO is not a quick strike offense, it's a dink and dunk game that requires patience. Moss stretching the field and drawing defenders away from the line of scrimmage, however, is making the essential elements of Zorn's WCO more effective. In close games, I fully expect defenses to make stopping Moss their number one priority as he can change the game in one play. In doing so, they accept a slight disadvantage at the line of scrimmage by devoting an extra man to key on Moss in hopes that the Skins will, essentially, beat themselves on longer drives. In the Rams game, that is EXACTLY what happened. If the offense (or even just Kendall) had played mistake free, we win the game.

Yes, I love +20 yard passes as much as the next guy, but that's not how this offense is built. Moss is, however, making the offense much more effective even when he isn't catchng balls. I also believe that, if the defense does not account for him and instead commits to stopping Portis, their failure will be exploited and Moss would have huge game.

For the sake of my fantasy team, however, I hope Moss catches 12 balls for 3 TD's and a gazillion yards (I'm looking at you Matty)!!!!

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

one thing for sure,we never have to worry about santanna acting like a 2year old if he does'nt get a lot of catches like TO does.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

[quote=Southpaw;490179]It'd probably also help if Moss could hold on to the balls that are thrown his way.[/quote]

I'm shocked it took this long before someone mentioned the number of drops Santana has this season. That goes for you too ARE.

Previous posts are right... If we give JC some damn pass protection, he might have some time to let Santana get open. He checks down so quickly because he has no reason to believe anyone up front will protect him for more then 3 steps.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

Also... I love how we finally have a team and coaches that look good and we can start daydreaming about, and all everyone wants to do is second guess the play calling.

"Santana is double covered and JZ needs to create plays/openings to exploit..." Blah Blah Blah.

You don't think he's trying to do that? Or do you think he's just an idiot? It must be one or the other.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

I just read this thread from start to finish and the one point that I just keep going back to is that JC hasn't thrown a touchdown in 10 quarters. I was shocked to see that stat.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

AMEN.... we have to get our most explosive player the damn rock until some of these rookies actually do something

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

You know what... everyone needs to just slow down and give it a little time. Things ebb and flow.

Santana has 3 TDs, 443 yards and averages 15.3 per catch. With 29 catches, that's almost 5 per game.

Chill.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

Stacks42...man I agree with you..i havent seen the flea-flicker in the Skins arsenal in awhile...back in the day with Gibbs (version 1) it was fairly common play. However, with that said , the flea-flicker (like all deep pass plays) require time in the pocket and JC just hasnt been getting it.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

Joe Theismann went down for good on a flea-flicker......Leave that play alone.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

[quote=FRPLG;490184]I thought one of the newer issues with this offense was that JC had to take care of a lot more of the protection calls rather than Rabach?[/quote]Well, either way, someone is screwing up. We were bad at picking up all the blitzers last year, and we were 16 kinds of awful picking them up against the Rams.

On plays where Campbell knows that he's not going to get the blitz picked up, he possesses an incredible ability to not only slide around the pocket to get the ball out, but turn the play into the positive by finding an open receiver before a free rusher can get to him. That's Manning/Brady type stuff.

However, on other plays, Campbell clearly expects a 5 man blitz (usually a right side overload to be picked up), and usually this involves either a one on one situation on Jansen or Cooley, or a free blitzer in a gap, and Rabach won't touch anyone the whole play.

I'm really not out to get Casey Rabach here, but no matter who is calling the protection, he blocks nobody FAR too often. The book on the Redskins is this: if you want to get pressure on Campbell, overload the right side, with no one rushing in either A gap. Rabach doesn't ever slide over to Thomas' side to free him up to pick up an unblocked rusher, he just stands in the middle shuffling his feet and waiting for someone to come so he doesn't have to move.

I'd estimate this happens 3-4 times every game. At the same time, what can you do? Replace the Center? There's no guarantee things will get any better. You just have to keep Cooley and Portis in pass pro more often to make up for those plays where Rabach is useless.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

I understand the need to protect the gaps closest to the QB, and honestly, he does a good job at keeping teams from pressuring Campbell up the middle. It just changes the whole complection of the passing offense when you realize that some 5 man blitzes absolutely can not be handled by fewer than 7 blockers.

Now, if the opponent brings 6, Campbell's going to get the ball out hot. But the 5 man rush is the bane of our passing offense right now.

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

I think the key is pass protection. JC was not able to exploit any DB mismatches b/c the line wasn't protecting him (and the Rams were thin at DB).

Re: Santana Moss needs the damn ball
 

Moss did have a bad drop that killed the promising opening drive, and another on a tougher play later on the right sideline, so he got more than two balls. To Moss's credit, he doesn't cry for the ball like the litany of WR divas throughout the league. If anything, he seems to be blocking better than I ever recall, which certainly helps Portis turn an 8 yard run into a 25 yard run.