Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

Ohio has big issues with the people registered to vote and over 200,000 newly registered voters name and addresses do not match up. So what is the Democratic Secratary of State Jennifer Brunner doing to check this out. Nothing.[URL="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-ap-scotus-voter-registration,0,719193.story"]Supreme Court sides with Ohio elections chief, against state GOP in voter registration suit -- chicagotribune.com[/URL]

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

So what's the problem exactly?

[QUOTE]In court filings, the GOP has not produced any specific evidence of voting fraud, only unsubstantiated reports that voters from other states had cast fraudulent ballots during the early voting period.
[/QUOTE]

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

What is the difference between registration fraud and voter fraud? Bonus question, would "Joe the Plumber" be eligible to vote in Ohio come Nov 4th if the GOP won?

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[quote=Mattyk72;490894]So what's the problem exactly?[/quote]

Thats what she said but its her job under the American Voter Act to find out why over 200,000 people newly registered to vote does not have matching adresses. She is a Dem. and is ignoring the this fact and Accorn is in there registering who ever they can and they have legal issues everywhere they have been.

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=firstdown;490901]Thats what she said but its her job under the American Voter Act to find out why over 200,000 people newly registered to vote does not have matching adresses. She is a Dem. and is ignoring the this fact and Accorn is in there registering who ever they can and they have legal issues everywhere they have been.[/quote]

I guess the Supreme Court disagrees

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=saden1;490895]What is the difference between registration fraud and voter fraud? Bonus question, would "Joe the Plumber" be eligible to vote in Ohio come Nov 4th if the GOP won?[/quote]

LOL did you see SNL last night? Joe the Plumber lives in a box under his bed and is only 3 1/2 inches tall, with Simon the unicorn... hilarious

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[quote=Mattyk72;490904]I guess the Supreme Court disagrees[/quote]
No the Supreme Court ruled that the Ohio Rep. party could not file the law suite under the rules of the act. They clearly stated that they did not rule on the merits of the case. Which really does not make any sense because who else would file the charges?

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=Mattyk72;490907]LOL did you see SNL last night? Joe the Plumber lives in a box under his bed and is only 3 1/2 inches tall, with Simon the unicorn... hilarious[/quote]

No. SNL last night?

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=saden1;490911]No. SNL last night?[/quote]

They've been doing a special half hour weekend update show every Thursday night after The Office.

[url=http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/]NBC.com > Saturday Night Live[/url]

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=firstdown;490908]No the Supreme Court ruled that the Ohio Rep. party could not file the law suite under the rules of the act. They clearly stated that they did not rule on the merits of the case. Which really does not make any sense because who else would file the charges?[/quote]

Doesn't it boil down to this? Sounds like there simply was not enough to establish anything.

[quote]In court filings, the GOP has not produced any specific evidence of voting fraud, only unsubstantiated reports that voters from other states had cast fraudulent ballots during the early voting period. [/quote]

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=Mattyk72;490915]They've been doing a special half hour weekend update show every Thursday night after The Office.

[URL="http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/"]NBC.com > Saturday Night Live[/URL][/quote]

Oh, didn't know that.

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[quote=Mattyk72;490918]Doesn't it boil down to this? Sounds like there simply was not enough to establish anything.[/quote]
No, thats what she said. The state court ruled in the Rep. favor and she had to have a system in place by today. She got lucky in the Supreme Court only because the Rep. could not bring the law suit. Its her job and she does not even have a system to check if they are fraudulent or not. Sorry but if the shoe was on the other foot she would be all over this. Remember that Bush won Ohio by less then 200,000 votes in the last election and it seems she is determined not to let that happen again.

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You do realize that the Supreme Court is stacked with Republicans right? And that tossing people off the registry because their name is spelled incorrectly is wrong?

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=saden1;490927]You do realize that the Supreme Court is stacked with Republicans right? And that tossing people off the registry because their name is spelled incorrectly is wrong?[/quote]
Did you even read the article. Its has nothing to do with how their name is spelled. What they have for an address does not match up with the goverments records. Now if these were people who had been registered for years that might make sense but these are newly registered voters. Also Accorn is involved. Oh, and the supreme court is not stacked by rep.

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

part of the FBI Acorn deal?

[url=http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hSQRQM34d7S1eOAiEdP7GAxlwf_QD93RPFPG0]The Associated Press: Officials: FBI investigates ACORN for voter fraud[/url]

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I think Joe The Plumber would make a damn good President. He looks like a no none-sense kind of guy. The kind of guy you like to have on your side in a bar fight.

A seemingly ambitious kind of guy who is trying to live the American dream by wanting to own a buisness and employ people so that they can earn an honest living also.

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=4mrusmc;491161]I think Joe The Plumber would make a damn good President. He looks like a no none-sense kind of guy. The kind of guy you like to have on your side in a bar fight.

A seemingly ambitious kind of guy who is trying to live the American dream by wanting to own a buisness and employ people so that they can earn an honest living also.[/quote]



Really? He looks and talks like a [URL="http://www.politicstv.com/blog/?p=4527"]Republican hack[/URL]. The schmuck even admitted Obama's plan would benefit him more.

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BTW you get taxed on Net Income (profit) not Gross Income. Joe the Plumber is a wanker unqualified to do any plumbing work at my house let alone the presidency.

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

it seems like the only time we hear of voting improprieties is when the Republicans are behind in the polls. ho- hum

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=Mattyk72;490907]LOL did you see SNL last night? Joe the Plumber lives in a box under his bed and is only 3 1/2 inches tall, with Simon the unicorn... hilarious[/quote]

I liked when the SNL Obama spoke to McCain's imaginary friend

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=saden1;491176]Really? He looks and talks like a [URL="http://www.politicstv.com/blog/?p=4527"]Republican hack[/URL]. The schmuck even admitted Obama's plan would benefit him more.

[yt]aejhxaNzMKM[/yt]

[yt]vFC9jv9jfoA[/yt]

BTW you get taxed on Net Income (profit) not Gross Income. Joe the Plumber is a wanker unqualified to do any plumbing work at my house let alone the presidency.[/quote]
Wrong, Obama's plan will tax any business making over 250,000 and no where does he state that its net income. He himself says any business making over $250,000.

Saden you post the YouTube clips of people pointing out their hate or meanness but you have called allot of people names and called this guy a smuck for no good reason. I guess that the liberal way.

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firstdown, you don't know what you're talking about. Go talk to your accountant or tax guy about what I have said.

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[quote=saden1;491998]firstdown you don't know what you're talking about. Go talk to your accountant or tax guy about what I have said.[/quote]
I have and he is not sure how the plan will change things because of lack of details. I did ask Obama's camp when they called my house and they could not answer the question nor did they call me back with the answer like they said they would. Obama' says business making over $250,000 will see a tax increase but he does not define what that means in anything that I have read and even his own staffers don't know. I'm taking it as gross receipts until someone can show me something different.

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Oh and calling the dude a schmuck is a fair assessment based on a) asking a question he can easily attain the answer to himself, b) the fact that he isn't a licensed plumber, c) the fact that he owes back taxes, and d) his admission that he would fair better under Obama's after shitting on it interview after interview.

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=saden1;492001]Oh and calling the dude a schmuck is a fair assessment based on a) asking a question he can easily attain the answer to himself, b) the fact that he isn't a licensed plumber, c) the fact that he owes back taxes, and d) his admission that he would fair better under Obama's after shitting on it interview after interview.[/quote]

If your saying that clip said he would be better off under Obama's plan I did not here him say that. What does him having a plumbing lic have to do with this? I have owed back taxes before but it was not becasue I did not pay them its because I did not pay enough. So you pay a penalty on the payment of the back taxes so that does not prove anything. Its funny how the liberal press is doing back ground checking on Joe the plumber to discredit him some how. Just shows how they will do anything to win and here in Va they are now going to the jails to get inmates to vote absentee. It just seems if their not for Obama their schmok or what ever hateful names the left uses.

Also you jumping on the guy for asking Obama a question? One that even Obama's staffers could not answer for me. Hmmm.

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[quote=firstdown;492000]I have and he is not sure how the plan will change things because of lack of details. I did ask Obama's camp when they called my house and they could not answer the question nor did they call me back with the answer like they said they would. Obama' says business making over $250,000 will see a tax increase but he does not define what that means in anything that I have read and even his own staffers don't know. I'm taking it as gross receipts until someone can show me something different.[/quote]


There is detail but in order to really, I mean really, understand the plan you have to first [URL="http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectId/D557CF7D-3BAE-4550-93F37C97C455A2D4/catID/B491956E-A152-424B-A2342A5861B5EACF/111/182/241/ART/"]know the basics[/URL] of accounting and taxation. I doubt Obama volunteers calling your home know this though I am surprised and find it troublesome that your accountant/tax guy doesn't know the details of his plan.

Basically, if you have 250K in revenue from your business and your expenses are 100K that means your take home is 150K (250K-100K=150K) and Obama isn't going to tax you more. In fact you're going to get a tax cut, not a big one but a cut nonetheless.

If on the other hand you have 280K in revenue and your expenses are 25K that means your take home is 255K (you're balling) then Obama is going to hit you for that extra 5K. He'll take [URL="http://www.nypost.com/seven/07022008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/a_tiger_of_a_tax_118143.htm"]~39% of that 5K[/URL] which is ~2K that's about it.

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=saden1;492013]There is detail but in order to really, I mean really, understand the plan you have to first [URL="http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectId/D557CF7D-3BAE-4550-93F37C97C455A2D4/catID/B491956E-A152-424B-A2342A5861B5EACF/111/182/241/ART/"]know the basics[/URL] of accounting and taxation. I doubt Obama volunteers calling your home know this though I am surprised and find it troublesome that your accountant/tax guy doesn't know the details of his plan.

Basically, if you have 250K in revenue from your business and your expenses are 100K that means your take home is 150K (250K-100K=150K) and Obama isn't going to tax you more. In fact you're going to get a tax cut, not a big one but a cut nonetheless.

If on the other hand you have 280K in revenue and your expenses are 25K that means your take home is 255K (you're balling) then Obama is going to hit you for that extra 5K. He'll take [URL="http://www.nypost.com/seven/07022008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/a_tiger_of_a_tax_118143.htm"]~39% of that 5K[/URL] which is ~2K that's about it.[/quote]

I understand how corporations work I just find it funny no one can show me his plan and how it will really works. If my business brings in $280,000 then its has made $280,000 and by Obama saying he will only tax business that make over 250,000 then I'm assuming that the business making the $280,000 will see a tax increase. No where have I seen or heard Obama say businesses with a net income over 250,000 will see a tax increase. I would think he would insert the word net income if thats what his plan really does but all I ever hear is businesses making over 250,000.

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=firstdown;492004]If your saying that clip said he would be better off under Obama's plan I did not here him say that. What does him having a plumbing lic have to do with this? I have owed back taxes before but it was not becasue I did not pay them its because I did not pay enough. So you pay a penalty on the payment of the back taxes so that does not prove anything. [B]Its funny how the liberal press is doing back ground checking on Joe the plumber to discredit him some how.[/B] Just shows how they will do anything to win and here in Va they are now going to the jails to get inmates to vote absentee. It just seems if their not for Obama their schmok or what ever hateful names the left uses.

Also you jumping on the guy for asking Obama a question? One that even Obama's staffers could not answer for me. Hmmm.[/quote]

I thought it was funny the Republicans didn't do their homework on good old Joe before making him the poster child of the last debate.

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=Mattyk72;492030]I thought it was funny the Republicans didn't do their homework on good old Joe before making him the poster child of the last debate.[/quote]
All they did was use him as an example and the liberal media is the one running with all of this stuff. Its pretty bad when a man can just ask a question of a person running for office then he has the media hounding him and doing back ground checking like he is running for office. You guys say McCain is running smear adds but this is even worse because he was just a guy who asked a question and is an everyday American. Now the liberal media feels the need to do a back ground checks on him?

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

Seems they should have just used a better example if they didn't want him being exposed.

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[quote=firstdown;492015]I understand how corporations work I just find it funny no one can show me his plan and how it will really works.[/quote]

[FONT=Arial]All the info you need can be found [URL="http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/"]here[/URL].[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=1][URL="http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Factsheet_Tax_Plan_FINAL.pdf"]Full Obama Tax Plan[/URL]

[URL="http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Tax_Plan_Comparison_FINAL.pdf"]Comparison of the Obama and McCain Tax Plans[/URL]

[URL="http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Tax_Plan_Facts_FINAL.pdf"]Key Facts About Obama and Taxes[/URL][/SIZE][/FONT]


[quote=firstdown;492015]If my business brings in $280,000 then its has made $280,000 and by Obama saying he will only tax business that make over 250,000 then I'm assuming that the business making the $280,000 will see a tax increase. [/quote]

You are correct in your assessment though I would it is given that if people making under 250K won't see a tax increase people making over 250K will see a tax increase. This is 1 + 1 = 2 stuff.

[quote=firstdown;492015]No where have I seen or heard Obama say businesses with a net income over 250,000 will see a tax increase. I would think he would insert the word net income if thats what his plan really does but all I ever hear is businesses making over 250,000.[/quote]

Are you being facetious? Companies are never taxed on gross income...never, ever, ever! If we started taxing companies based on gross income that would be the end of capitalism. What you are implying that since he didn't use the word net that we don't really know what he means. When someone talks about increasing/decreasing taxes they are talking about increasing/decreasing taxes on taxable income (take home monies after deductions), capice?

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Can someone explain to me what is so great about increasing the taxes on ANY income level?

Do we really want to make it harder on corporations to do business these days? Don't we want to encourage economic growth, not inhibit it by nailing them to the wall with higher taxes?

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

Back to voter fraud.

Claiming voter fraud is a standard move by parties that have an interest in low voter turn out. Registering as many new voters as possible is a standard move for parties with an interest in high voter turn out. Can you guess which party is which in this election? ;)

Much more serious than ACORN trying to register Mickey Mouse (Note: this is very different from Mickey ACTUALLY VOTING--see this for more on the ACORN stuff:[IMG]http://www.newsweek.com/id/164722[/IMG] ) is the attempts to disenfranchise legit voters. If legit voters are prevented from voting in an election, that's a serious blow to the whole idea of democracy. (See here for a partisan view: [url=http://jezebel.com/5061161/theres-nothing-some-fear-more-than-citizens-exercising-their-constitutional-rights]Voter Disenfranchisement: There's Nothing Some Fear More Than Citizens Exercising Their Constitutional Rights[/url] )

Can you guess which side I'm on?

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[URL="http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/20/republican-voter-registration-chief-arrested-fraud-california/"]Republican Voter Registration Chief Arrested for Fraud in California[/URL]. How ironic.

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=saden1;492112][URL="http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/20/republican-voter-registration-chief-arrested-fraud-california/"]Republican Voter Registration Chief Arrested for Fraud in California[/URL]. How ironic.[/quote]

Gotta love it.

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[quote=Beemnseven;492078]Can someone explain to me what is so great about increasing the taxes on ANY income level?

Do we really want to make it harder on corporations to do business these days? Don't we want to encourage economic growth, not inhibit it by nailing them to the wall with higher taxes?[/quote]

I can, Charlie Brown. Lights, please...

Here's one line of thought:

The overall health of the economy suffers when we have these huge deficits and a ballooning national debt. People are unwilling to cut the defense budget, Social Security, highway funds, head start, homeland security, etc. So we need more revenue. Claim: the middle class is the engine of the economy, so don't tax them--cut their taxes. The poor have no money to tax. So tax the rich. They can most afford to pay (yes, they're angry about it, but they won't lose their homes, healthcare, etc.). Further, doing this in the past has been good for the economy--progressive taxation is better economically then trickledown economics. So it's the right thing to do.

Is it fair to tax one group of citizens more than another? (This, I think, is among the most important differences between conservatives and liberals.) My feeling: yes, if it can be shown that the overall economy gets better, and so a rising tide lifts all boats, even the big rich yachts. Also, it may be that the rich should give something back to help the overall health of the nation where they've done so well (and, BTW, I'd certainly make charitable donations tax deductible up the wazoo).

Worry: excessive taxation is a drag on investment and undermines the motivational energies of the economy. That seems a good worry. Solution: find the progressive tax polices that have the least negative effect on these things. There are lots of ways to do this, but none of them fit in a message board post or a campaign add. So we need leaders who are smart enough to find the right fit here. I thought Clinton's team wasn't bad. I think Obama is more of this stripe than his opponents (and many of his friends) think. I think McCain is open to this (or he was), but since running to the right, he may not be able to get back to this reasonable sort of view. Hence, I prefer Obama on this issue.

If you're against ANY taxation, or any progressive taxation, neither of these candidates is for you. See Bob Barr, maybe?

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=JWsleep;492089]Back to voter fraud.

Claiming voter fraud is a standard move by parties that have an interest in low voter turn out. Registering as many new voters as possible is a standard move for parties with an interest in high voter turn out. Can you guess which party is which in this election? ;)

Much more serious than ACORN trying to register Mickey Mouse (Note: this is very different from Mickey ACTUALLY VOTING--see this for more on the ACORN stuff:[IMG]http://www.newsweek.com/id/164722[/IMG] ) is the attempts to disenfranchise legit voters. If legit voters are prevented from voting in an election, that's a serious blow to the whole idea of democracy. (See here for a partisan view: [URL="http://jezebel.com/5061161/theres-nothing-some-fear-more-than-citizens-exercising-their-constitutional-rights"]Voter Disenfranchisement: There's Nothing Some Fear More Than Citizens Exercising Their Constitutional Rights[/URL] )

Can you guess which side I'm on?[/quot

The word disenfranchised is also used by groups that do not want anyone enforcing the rules and that anyone who puts in an application should be allowed to just vote without question. Accorn had two people thrown in jail here in Va. for voter fraud and thats just VA. They are also under FBI investigation. I also find it funny how the dems seem to want no one to review these registrations claiming fear of disenfrnchising them but back in 2000 they wanted to throw out all of those ballots sent in from our servicemen over sea's. It seem they just want to be selective as long as its in their favor.

Re: Voter Fraud In Ohio
 

[quote=firstdown;492142]
The word disenfranchised is also used by groups that do not want anyone enforcing the rules and that anyone who puts in an application should be allowed to just vote without question. Accorn had two people thrown in jail here in Va. for voter fraud and thats just VA. They are also under FBI investigation. I also find it funny how the dems seem to want no one to review these registrations claiming fear of disenfrnchising them but back in 2000 they wanted to throw out all of those ballots sent in from our servicemen over sea's. It seem they just want to be selective as long as its in their favor.[/quote]

Who's saying anyone should be allowed to vote without question? That's obviously wrong as well (two wrongs, etc.) And disenfranchising servicemen is certainly wrong and undemocratic. And as I said in my post, the campaign challenging the registrations will be the one with an interest in throwing out votes. My point is it's wrong, whoever does it. But there's no doubt that's it's a staple of the Republican playbook from way back (at least the 1960s) and they are playing it big time now.

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[quote=JWsleep;492169]Who's saying anyone should be allowed to vote without question? That's obviously wrong as well (two wrongs, etc.) And disenfranchising servicemen is certainly wrong and undemocratic. And as I said in my post, the campaign challenging the registrations will be the one with an interest in throwing out votes. My point is it's wrong, whoever does it. But there's no doubt that's it's a staple of the Republican playbook from way back (at least the 1960s) and they are playing it big time now.[/quote]
Its a staple of both parties so don't put the dems above any of this. Parties worry about voter fraud in areas where it is likley that the voter will be voting for the other party. Thats why the Dems tried to discredit the military over seas vote because they knew it was in the Rep. favor and its why the rep. go after certain voters.

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[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2008/oct/13/election-acorn-voter-fraud]Brad Friedman: The Republican voter fraud hoax | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk[/url]

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[quote=JWsleep;492127]The overall health of the economy suffers when we have these huge deficits and a ballooning national debt. People are unwilling to cut the defense budget, Social Security, highway funds, head start, homeland security, etc.[/quote]There's the problem, bloated government programs. They take on a life of their own. Many need to be cut back.

[quote]Further, doing this in the past has been good for the economy--[B]progressive taxation is better economically then trickledown economics[/B]. So it's the right thing to do.[/quote]This is a very debatable point many economists disagree with. Also, we've always had some form of progressive taxation since the inception on the income tax. But at what point is the "progression" too much? I would argue when the top 1% of income earners are paying 34% of the Federal tax burden and the next 2-10% are paying the next 33% than it's too much. The bottom 50% are only paying a total of 3% of the tax burden.

[quote]Also, it may be that the rich [B]should[/B] give something back to help the overall health of the nation where they've done so well[/quote]Why? What government programs or government advantages have they received? What government services do they use more than anyone else? Answer: probably none. (I'm not talking the top 1%, I can't speak to how they got where they are, but the 2-10% have mostly gotten there by their own hard work and financial risk taking.)