Liberal Supermajority
 

Good article from the Wall Street Journal on what is likely to happen if Obama wins the White House and the dems gather 60 seats in the Senate. We may be taking a pretty hard turn to the left. This happened in 1933 and 1965. Each time we wound up with big government progams that are now eating up a vast majority of the Federal budget.

[URL="http://sec.online.wsj.com/article/SB122420205889842989.html"]A Liberal Supermajority - WSJ.com[/URL]

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

It's an op-ed, not an article - big difference. It's typical for an op-ed, too. Light on substance, long on rhetoric.

First, I agree with what the author says about potential concerns regarding unions and global warming. Each needs to be checked. However, the rest is pretty much bunk.

- Universal health care: Yes it costs. It's worth it. We take health care for granted, but many can't afford it.
- The business climate: Is the author actually arguing that Sarb-Ox is a bad thing?
- Taxes: Taxes will rise for 2% of Americans and fall for 98%. I really don't have a problem with that. And I'm part of the 2%.
- Free speech and voting rights: This is classic - "Increased access to the polls favors the Democrats". Seriously - is that an argument?
- Special interest potpourri: This is six of one/half-dozen of the other. The R's are just as bad. I will say - does anyone actually think No Child Left Behind is working?

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=onlydarksets;491096]It's an op-ed, not an article - big difference. It's typical for an op-ed, too. Light on substance, long on rhetoric.

First, I agree with what the author says about potential concerns regarding unions and global warming. Each needs to be checked. However, the rest is pretty much bunk.
[B]
- Universal health care: Yes it costs. It's worth it. We take health care for granted, but many can't afford it.[/B]
- The business climate: Is the author actually arguing that Sarb-Ox is a bad thing?
- Taxes: Taxes will rise for 2% of Americans and fall for 98%. I really don't have a problem with that. And I'm part of the 2%.
- Free speech and voting rights: This is classic - "Increased access to the polls favors the Democrats". Seriously - is that an argument?
- Special interest potpourri: This is six of one/half-dozen of the other. The R's are just as bad. I will say - does anyone actually think No Child Left Behind is working?[/quote]

I'm completely down for universal health care. I would love to give people who would never be able to afford health care the chance to get treatment they other wise, wouldn't receive.

But I hear in Canada, where they do have universal health care, that:

1) The wait lists there for organs and such are HUUUUUUGE. Bigger than what we have in the US, and people already die here waiting.

and that

2) You have to be either pregnant or dying to get any sort of good attention there. Anyone with any sort of illness deemed "minor" is shoveled medicine and pushed away.

Now this may or may not be true and it's also someones opinion. Even though I've been told this, I'm still for it. The details of it, (insurance companies, prices etc etc) I don't really care about. I'm all about the big picture, if this is implemented (technical insider mumbo jumbo aside) could it stand up?

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=onlydarksets;491096][B]does anyone actually think No Child Left Behind is working?[/B][/quote]

it's been called a good thing by republicans and dems, but it's not funded, so how can you tell if it's working or not?

as far as health care - if you put cost control onus on the individual instead of regulators or oversight it CAN be cost effective and reduce insurance costs at the same time (ie small individual cost sharing on health care, free yearly preventative screenings, wider use of generics).

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;491100]The details of it, (insurance companies, prices etc etc) I don't really care about. I'm all about the big picture, if this is implemented (technical insider mumbo jumbo aside) could it stand up?[/quote]


that's the problem, universal health care without regard to the details of its implementation is worthless. you'll end up like england or sweden with the standard of care drops through the floor, where funding it eats all kinda of money from everyone (mainly higher taxes) and no one's really happy about it.


you HAVE to put the $$ in front of the consumer so they can self regulate as the main cost control. even 5 or 10% payment is enough (with free screenings etc, since people waiting too long for treatment tends to be one of the highest drivers of total medical cost).

then you track individual usage patterns to help root out abuse (both consumers and doctors, and offer partial reimbursement for medical students college costs based upon national need and successful completion of studies and placement (being hired) into a hospital/clinic.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=onlydarksets;491096]It's an op-ed, not an article - big difference. It's typical for an op-ed, too. Light on substance, long on rhetoric.[/quote]
Not too much rhetoric in the article, just reasonable predictions of what will likely happen.

[quote]- Universal health care: Yes it costs. It's worth it. We take health care for granted, but many can't afford it.[/quote]From the article..ooops, op-ed: "According to the Lewin Group, the gold standard of health policy analysis, the Obama plan would shift between 32 million and 52 million from private coverage to the huge new entitlement." This is similar to a program the state of Hawaii just cancelled where people who had insurance were dropping it to pick up the "freebie" from the government.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't take my health care for granted and pay a good amount each year for it. I'm willing to make that sacrifice for my family, why should I be penalized by higher taxes or worse coverage administered by the government, because others don't care to make the same sacrifice. Also there are other government programs available for people with low incomes to access health care.

[quote]- The business climate: Is the author actually arguing that Sarb-Ox is a bad thing?[/quote]
There are/were unintended negatives to Sarbanes Oxley (as with most government programs)

[URL="http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1080"]Does Sarbanes-Oxley Hurt Shareholders and Hide Poor Management? - Knowledge@Wharton[/URL]

[quote]- Taxes: Taxes will rise for 2% of Americans and fall for 98%. I really don't have a problem with that. And I'm part of the 2%.[/quote]
I don't believe that for a second. Obama voted for tax increases on single filers making $ 42K and families making $ 90K. Of course he'll come to the center to win the election but if he wins, all bets are off especially with a liberal supermajority. Even if what he says is true, the top 1% already pay approximately 34% of the taxes in the U.S. 40% of the U.S. households pay no federal income tax. Not to mention the capital gains increases Obama has proposed, up to 28% I believe. Tax increases will only slow the economy, not help it. Who creates the jobs in the U.S., the top 2%. Tax them more and they'll cut jobs and not increase their business production, hurting the economy and the very people Obama and the dems claim to be helping. Also lifting the cap on SS & Medicare will affect folks making over $ 102K, if I'm correct.

[quote]- Free speech and voting rights: This is classic - "Increased access to the polls favors the Democrats". Seriously - is that an argument?[/quote]No conservative that I've heard has talked about restricting access to the polls, but election day voter registration makes the opportunity for fraud very easy. IMO this is a very serious and important argument. How would you verify the identities of the Dallas Cowboys when they're registering to vote with the local McDonalds as their address.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

Indeed, it will be a sad day on Nov 5th. I guess a liberal supermajority is what happens when the Republican Party fails the people. If you're a Republican it is time to take a hard look in the mirror and hold yourself accountable.

p.s. [URL="http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_32000_question.html"]You're better than this SS33[/URL].

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=saden1;491120]I guess a liberal supermajority is what happens when the Republican Party fails the people. If you're a Republican it is time to take a hard look in the mirror and hold yourself accountable.[/quote]
You and I agree 100% on this point. We look at it from different angles, but the Republican Party has no one to blame but itself for what may happen on Nov. 5th. I think the GOP has done a terrible job of framing the issues and their positions. The GOP pounds the conservative social issues to solidify the hard-right base (which alienates the independents and moderate swing voters) and has forgotten to be fiscally conservative. Not to mention the high-profile scandals.

[quote]p.s. [URL="http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_32000_question.html"]You're better than this SS33[/URL].[/quote]
Where am I wrong here? The numbers I referenced are the $ 41,500 and actually $ 83K (vs $ 90K). I understand the resolution was technically not a tax "increase", just a repeal of the Bush cuts. But either way the tax bracket would increase from 25% to 28%.

I understand Obama's plan, but I think with all the new programs that he's proposing and with a supermajority, there is no way $ 250K threshold will stick. Also, don't you think a tax rate of 39% is too high?

I'm a Fairtax guy. I think that program is much better because people will choose the amount of tax they pay by the products they buy, rather than the government setting rates for different income levels. I also believe the only way to reign in government spending is to restrict the $$ coming in and pass a balanced budget ammendment. The only time that deficit spending would be allowed would be in a formally declared war approved by Congress, not a Vietnam or Iraq scenario.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

Don't bet on such radical change. Even if the dems pickup this so-called super majority, they still have to agree on what legislation to pass. And then we will see, as is the case with the republicans, that they are all connected up to various special interests. And some dems will be connected to the doctors, while some will be connected with the insurance folks, and some will be connected with the unions, and so forth. And they will try to protect those interests.

And that's actually how the system is designed to work, as far as I can tell. See The Federalist Papers, by Madison, Hamilton, and Jay.

My guess is your going to see a lot of debt spending here. They're going to let the deficit go up, lower middle class taxes and stimulate the economy with govt spending. Then you fix the debt later when the economy is on stronger footing. Hope it works!

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;491119]Not too much rhetoric in the article, just [B]reasonable predictions[/B] of what will likely happen.[/quote]
Are we reading the same article?

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;491119]From the article..ooops, op-ed: "According to the Lewin Group, the gold standard of health policy analysis, the Obama plan would shift between 32 million and 52 million from private coverage to the huge new entitlement." This is similar to a program the state of Hawaii just cancelled where people who had insurance were dropping it to pick up the "freebie" from the government.[/quote]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't take my health care for granted and pay a good amount each year for it. I'm willing to make that sacrifice for my family, why should I be penalized by higher taxes or worse coverage administered by the government, because others don't care to make the same sacrifice. Also there are other government programs available for people with low incomes to access health care. [/quote]
Everyone talks about the costs of the program, but few point out that [B]we are already paying for it[/B]. The costs of the uninsured are paid for by the insured - in my opinion, it's better to be proactive than reactive, even if there is a marginal total cost increase. However, once you include non-medical costs resulting from preventable or treatable injuries and afflictions (unemployment, workers comp, welfare, crime, etc.), I'm not so sure the cost actually increases by much.
[URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8144237/"]Uninsured add $900 to health premiums - Health care - MSNBC.com[/URL]
[URL="http://www.kff.org/uninsured/7084.cfm"]The Cost of Care for the Uninsured:* What Do We Spend, Who Pays, and What Would Full Coverage Add to Medical Spending? - Kaiser Family Foundation[/URL]
[url=http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml]NCHC | Facts About Healthcare - Health Insurance Costs[/url]

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;491119]There are/were unintended negatives to Sarbanes Oxley (as with most government programs)

[URL="http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1080"]Does Sarbanes-Oxley Hurt Shareholders and Hide Poor Management? - Knowledge@Wharton[/URL]
[/quote]
There are definitely unintended consequences (including affecting smaller business, which can't afford to implement the measures required). That suggests it needs to be retooled, not revoked. Big business believes it is beholden to its investors before the law. The laws need to be revised (and have, with SarbOx) to make it clear that this is not the case.

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;491119]I don't believe that for a second. Obama voted for tax increases on single filers making $ 42K and families making $ 90K. Of course he'll come to the center to win the election but if he wins, all bets are off especially with a liberal supermajority. Even if what he says is true, the top 1% already pay approximately 34% of the taxes in the U.S. 40% of the U.S. households pay no federal income tax. Not to mention the capital gains increases Obama has proposed, up to 28% I believe. Tax increases will only slow the economy, not help it. Who creates the jobs in the U.S., the top 2%. Tax them more and they'll cut jobs and not increase their business production, hurting the economy and the very people Obama and the dems claim to be helping. Also lifting the cap on SS & Medicare will affect folks making over $ 102K, if I'm correct.[/quote]
Dude, that was part of a budget resolution, not a comprehensive tax plan:
[URL="http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_32000_question.html"]FactCheck.org: The $32,000 Question[/URL]

You can take it out of context, but don't expect it to carry much weight.


[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;491119]No conservative that I've heard has talked about restricting access to the polls, but election day voter registration makes the opportunity for fraud very easy. IMO this is a very serious and important argument. How would you verify the identities of the Dallas Cowboys when they're registering to vote with the local McDonalds as their address.[/quote]
lol - I'll grant you that! But [B]only[/B] Cowgirl felons should be barred, IMO.

Seriously, though, I don't have an opinion on felons voting, but your point is about fraud, not the right to vote. There is virtually [B]zero[/B] chance that voter fraud can influence a federal election, or any statewide election. The numbers are just too high. Does this increase the possibility that an overly motivated group could influence a mayoral race in a small town? Maybe, but I still doubt it. Access to the polls is imperative to the legitimacy of the process (as is reducing fraud - I grant you that). The benefits outweigh the risks here. And, yes, the underprivileged tend to skew Democratic, since that is the party that supports the social programs that enable many of them to survive.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;491100][B]I'm completely down for universal health care. I would love to give people who would never be able to afford health care the chance to get treatment they other wise, wouldn't receive.[/B]
But I hear in Canada, where they do have universal health care, that:

1) The wait lists there for organs and such are HUUUUUUGE. Bigger than what we have in the US, and people already die here waiting.

and that

2) You have to be either pregnant or dying to get any sort of good attention there. Anyone with any sort of illness deemed "minor" is shoveled medicine and pushed away.

Now this may or may not be true and it's also someones opinion. Even though I've been told this, I'm still for it. The details of it, (insurance companies, prices etc etc) I don't really care about. I'm all about the big picture, if this is implemented (technical insider mumbo jumbo aside) could it stand up?[/quote]

Nothing is stopping you from stroking a check for someone who doesn't have health care. I, on the other hand, would prefer just to take care of my own family.

Here's the thing about universal health care -- who pays for it? The government you say? How does the government get the money to do that? Through taxes, right? Are there taxes taken out of your paycheck? Yes? Then you're still paying for health care - just not your own.

With universal health care, you should expect all the compassion of the IRS and the efficiency of FEMA.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=Beemnseven;491813]Nothing is stopping you from stroking a check for someone who doesn't have health care. [B] I, on the other hand, would prefer just to take care of my own family. [/B]

Here's the thing about universal health care -- who pays for it? The government you say? How does the government get the money to do that? Through taxes, right? Are there taxes taken out of your paycheck? Yes? Then you're still paying for health care - just not your own.

With universal health care, you should expect all the compassion of the IRS and the efficiency of FEMA.[/quote]
"there, but for the grace of god, go i."

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=Beemnseven;491813]Nothing is stopping you from stroking a check for someone who doesn't have health care. [B]I, on the other hand, would prefer just to take care of my own family.
[/B]
Here's the thing about universal health care -- who pays for it? The government you say? How does the government get the money to do that? Through taxes, right? Are there taxes taken out of your paycheck? Yes? Then you're still paying for health care - just not your own.

With universal health care, you should expect all the compassion of the IRS and the efficiency of FEMA.[/quote]

God forbid anything happen to you or your family, but if anything ever did happen to you or your family, to the point of where you couldn't support yourself/your medical bills, and the majority of people carry that attitude, they might as well just turn you away at the front door of the hospital and say, "go take care of yourself."

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

Come on, he has everything covered. He'll never lose his job or business, his insurance will never drop him and he'll never rack-up any medical bills. Even if his insurance company drops him I'm sure he'll hire a lawyer who will sort the whole matter in matters of few months. Thanks to his hard work him and his family are set for life.

Me, I thank god I work for a company that pay 100% of my health insurance. Not a dime comes out of my pockets and that's just the way I like it...and according to Obama that's the way it'll stay.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

One of the things the democrats oppose is the ability for families and individuals to deduct the cost of health care from their income taxes. So the very thing you're afraid of -- losing your job and not being able to afford insurance -- is a reality thanks to the policies of the party you apparently support. Employers can deduct the cost of insurance from their taxes, why shouldn't individuals be allowed to do the same?

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;491863]God forbid anything happen to you or your family, but if anything ever did happen to you or your family, to the point of where you couldn't support yourself/your medical bills, and the majority of people carry that attitude, they might as well just turn you away at the front door of the hospital and say, "go take care of yourself."[/quote]

So if something happens to me or my family, you're saying I should have the right to approach you and Saden, and FORCE you to help me pay my medical bills?

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=Beemnseven;491908]One of the things the democrats oppose is the ability for families and individuals to deduct the cost of health care from their income taxes. So the very thing you're afraid of -- losing your job and not being able to afford insurance -- is a reality thanks to the policies of the party you apparently support. Employers can deduct the cost of insurance from their taxes, why shouldn't individuals be allowed to do the same?[/quote]

Umm, how much do you think you'll get back by deducting $4800 (assuming you pay $400 in health insurance a month)? Me starting to think McCain's $5000 credit sounds better and that's a god awful plan.

I know every little thing helps but come on, a 4800 deduction nets you an extra peanut at best.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=Beemnseven;491909]So if something happens to me or my family, you're saying I should have the right to approach you and Saden, and FORCE you to help me pay my medical bills?[/quote]

I don't run a charity bro but what I am willing to do is have some of my tax money used to create universal health care system to help keep your costs down and allow your family to seek medical treatment without you lot having to fork your life savings. I mean, I already do that sort of thing with schools (no kids here BTW), police departments, and fire departments.


Yeah, I'm nice like that.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=Beemnseven;491909]So if something happens to me or my family, you're saying I should have the right to approach you and Saden, and FORCE you to help me pay my medical bills?[/quote]
What saden said...

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;491100]I'm completely down for universal health care. I would love to give people who would never be able to afford health care the chance to get treatment they other wise, wouldn't receive.

But I hear in Canada, where they do have universal health care, that:

1) The wait lists there for organs and such are HUUUUUUGE. Bigger than what we have in the US, and people already die here waiting.

and that

2) You have to be either pregnant or dying to get any sort of good attention there. Anyone with any sort of illness deemed "minor" is shoveled medicine and pushed away.

Now this may or may not be true and it's also someones opinion. Even though I've been told this, I'm still for it. The details of it, (insurance companies, prices etc etc) I don't really care about. I'm all about the big picture, if this is implemented (technical insider mumbo jumbo aside) could it stand up?[/quote]

We see every goverment programe blow up in cost and do just a fraction of what is promised. Just name one goverment program that is working and not costing way more than it should. SS, medicare, etc.. are in financial trouble. Maybe they can run it like Wall Street or our home mortgage banking because all of that is going so well.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=saden1;491933]Umm, how much do you think you'll get back by deducting $4800 (assuming you pay $400 in health insurance a month)? Me starting to think McCain's $5000 credit sounds better and that's a god awful plan.

I know every little thing helps but come on, a 4800 deduction nets you an extra peanut at best.[/quote]
Individual coverage is a [B]lot[/B] more expensive than that for a family. Assuming no major medical issues (which bump up premiums), $1000+/month is not unlikely. That's several thousands of dollars a year if you could deduct it.

Still, this is completely separate from universal coverage.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=saden1;491874]Come on, he has everything covered. He'll never lose his job or business, his insurance will never drop him and he'll never rack-up any medical bills. Even if his insurance company drops him I'm sure he'll hire a lawyer who will sort the whole matter in matters of few months. Thanks to his hard work him and his family are set for life.

Me, I thank god I work for a company that pay 100% of my health insurance. Not a dime comes out of my pockets and that's just the way I like it...and according to Obama that's the way it'll stay.[/quote]

You are paying for health insurance because its a cost to your employer and is figured in when they determine what they will pa someone. So it might not directly cost you money it was figured into how much they can afford to pay you. Also if goverment takes over health insurance plan on it costing you allot in higher taxes. Again name one thing that the goverment runs efficiently? Also a health ins. co. cannot cancel your coverage over health reason.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=saden1;491933]Umm, how much do you think you'll get back by deducting $4800 (assuming you pay $400 in health insurance a month)? Me starting to think McCain's $5000 credit sounds better and that's a god awful plan.

I know every little thing helps but come on, a 4800 deduction nets you an extra peanut at best.[/quote]

Well, if you see a $4800 deduction (or more, depending on your plan) as completely insignificant, I have no argument for you. I'll take any chance I can get that allows me to keep more of my hard-earned cash so that I can go out and find the best deal for myself.

If you like the idea that the responsibility of your health coverage should be the burden of someone else, then the current system apparently suits you fine.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=saden1;491937]I don't run a charity bro but what I am willing to do is have some of my tax money used to create universal health care system to help keep your costs down and allow your family to seek medical treatment without you lot having to fork your life savings. I mean, I already do that sort of thing with schools (no kids here BTW), police departments, and fire departments.


Yeah, I'm nice like that.[/quote]

So you don't like the idea of me coming to you directly to force you to help me pay my doctor bills, but you're fine with the government forcing you to do it on my behalf? As more and more people get older, and as the population of this country continues to rise, the cost of universal coverage will most certainly not go down. Entitlement programs are bankrupting this nation.

Adding health insurance to the already long list of obligations this government has in the form of retirement, prescription drugs, Medicare, Medicaid, Wall Street bailouts, foreign misadventures, saving the oppressed people of the world, acting as policeman of the world ... sooner or later the bill is going to come due. The last thing we should do is pile on more financial responsibilities on the government that it cannot possibly afford.

What ever happened to personal responsibility here? What happened to 'Rugged Individualism' ?? Doesn't anyone see the danger of encouraging society to be totally dependent on the government for all of our needs?

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=Beemnseven;492072]So you don't like the idea of me coming to you directly to force you to help me pay my doctor bills, but you're fine with the government forcing you to do it on my behalf? As more and more people get older, and as the population of this country continues to rise, the cost of universal coverage will most certainly not go down. Entitlement programs are bankrupting this nation.

Adding health insurance to the already long list of obligations this government has in the form of retirement, prescription drugs, Medicare, Medicaid, Wall Street bailouts, foreign misadventures, saving the oppressed people of the world, acting as policeman of the world ... sooner or later the bill is going to come due. The last thing we should do is pile on more financial responsibilities on the government that it cannot possibly afford.

What ever happened to personal responsibility here? What happened to 'Rugged Individualism' ?? Doesn't anyone see the danger of encouraging society to be totally dependent on the government for all of our needs?[/quote]

I'll be happy to donate $50 to your cause. Every problem has a solution except perhaps [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complexity_classes_P_and_NP"]P = NP problem[/URL]. I mean by the way you sound you're basically saying all government services are bad. This of of course is not true. Some are better than others, some are vital to this nation's progress and prosperity and others can be done away with all together.

It is important to remember that this country wouldn't be where it is without the Marshall Plan, the New Deal, and the Reconstruction. Certainly we have lost some ground in terms keeping spending under control but such problem can be corrected. The Medicare bill, the farm bill, all the other shitty bills aren't permanent and can be alleviated if the people and their representatives choose to do so. David Walker is getting the ball rolling and I think people are starting to pay attention.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=saden1;492093]I'll be happy to donate $50 to your cause. Every problem has a solution except perhaps [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complexity_classes_P_and_NP"]P = NP problem[/URL]. I mean by the way you sound you're basically saying all government services are bad. This of of course is not true. Some are better than others, some are vital to this nation's progress and prosperity and others can be done away with all together.

It is important to remember that this country wouldn't be where it is without the Marshall Plan, the New Deal, and the Reconstruction. Certainly we have lost some ground in terms keeping spending under control but such problem can be corrected. The Medicare bill, the farm bill, all the other shitty bills aren't permanent and can be alleviated if the people and their representatives choose to do so. David Walker is getting the ball rolling and I think people are starting to pay attention.[/quote]
Ok, so name these services that the goverment does so well and that cost have not skyrocketed.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

You implication is that everything the government touches results ins skyrocketing cost? They are to blame for how expensive elementary education and higher education have become? The cost of books? The rising cost of teacher, police officer and fire fighter salaries? The cost of prescription dugs? The cost of surgical procedures?

Certainly they can do a better job curbing waste and fraud but I fail to see how that's a government only problem.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=saden1;492161]You implication is that everything the government touches results ins skyrocketing cost? They are to blame for how expensive elementary education and higher education have become? The cost of books? The rising cost of teacher, police officer and fire fighter salaries? The cost of prescription dugs? The cost of surgical procedures?

Certainly they can do a better job curbing waste and fraud but I fail to see how that's a government only problem.[/quote]

So you cannot think of a well run program. On education. Don't we spend more then just about any other nation per student but our kids are falling further and further behind other developed nations? The federal goverment does not pay for police or fire fighters. Goverment does restrict us from going out and buying prescription drugs from places like Canada to save money.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[url=http://www.afterschool.gov/]Home | AfterSchool.gov | A U.S. Goverment Web Portal[/url]

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[url=http://www.va.gov/about_va/programs.asp]Gateway to VA Programs - About VA[/url]

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[url=http://www.acf.hhs.gov/]Administration for Children and Families Home Page[/url]

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=onlydarksets;492187][URL="http://www.afterschool.gov/"]Home | AfterSchool.gov | A U.S. Goverment Web Portal[/URL][/quote]
Ok a program to help the failed school system which already spends how much per student. I'm not knocking the program itself but your making my point for me.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=onlydarksets;492191][URL="http://www.acf.hhs.gov/"]Administration for Children and Families Home Page[/URL][/quote]
I see you guys pick the easy programs that really do not cost us much money and that most people don't know much about them.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

universal healthcare, just another reason for the laziest people in the world to continue to sit on their ass and let other people take care of them.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=wolfeskins;492267]universal healthcare, just another reason for the laziest people in the world to continue to sit on their ass and let other people take care of them.[/quote]

I know. Damn those Veterans out on the street who got booted into the streets during the 80's and can't afford health care. I mean, Jesus, they're so damn lazy. :doh:

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;492278]I know. Damn those Veterans out on the street who got booted into the streets during the 80's and can't afford health care. I mean, Jesus, they're so damn lazy. :doh:[/quote]
If I'm correct don't we have a medical system for veterans in place allready?
[url=http://www1.va.gov/health/index.asp]Health Care — Veterans Health Administration Home[/url]

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=firstdown;492378]If I'm correct don't we have a medical system for veterans in place allready?
[URL="http://www1.va.gov/health/index.asp"]Health Care — Veterans Health Administration Home[/URL][/quote]

I'm not saying that they don't have it readily available, just that there are many that can't afford it, more specifically those that still need psychological treatment.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

Just remember. In politics, like football, nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems. These so called "mandate" elections can be very short-lived. Once all all the Obama kiddies go back to their dismal, solipsistic lives, then decent people will begin to fight back. This is our country. We own it, and we always will.

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=70Chip;492386]Just remember. In politics, like football, nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems. These so called "mandate" elections can be very short-lived. Once all all the Obama kiddies go back to their dismal, solipsistic lives, then decent people will begin to fight back. This is our country. We own it, and we always will.[/quote]

What decent people? And who's the we? We upstanding, moral Republicans?

Shouldn't you be posting in the Liberal = Anti American thread? :spank:

Re: Liberal Supermajority
 

[quote=firstdown;492378]If I'm correct don't we have a medical system for veterans in place allready?
[url=http://www1.va.gov/health/index.asp]Health Care — Veterans Health Administration Home[/url][/quote]

Yes - it's a social program. You want to do away with those, remember?