Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

Our offense has scored 16 points in the last two weeks, for an average of 8 points per game. Our offense hasn't scored more than 18 points since we played the Eagles in week 5. Our offense has sputtered against the Rams, Browns, Steelers and Cowboys. In short, this offense has serious, serious problems.

So my question is, what's the problem? The line, the receivers, the playcalling, or some combination thereof?

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

I think it comes down to the fact that the offense goes as Clinton Portis goes. Right now he's just not right, and as a result the entire offense just isn't right.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

Offensive line is the problem. They are good in run blocking, but the pass blocking is pretty bad...mostly Rabach and Jansen

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

Before tonight's game, the Redskins passing game was ranked 18th in the NFL overall, and they're at #25 in the league in terms of passing yardage.

So even with a good running game, the last two games notwithstanding, we still have really no semblance of a decent passing attack.

Last year, the protection was better, but our QB was still learning. Now, our QB is progressing nicely, but our pass protection has gone to complete shit.

Usually, a championship team has all facets of the game come together at the right time. We just haven't seen that with the Redskins.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;501602]I think it comes down to the fact that the offense goes as Clinton Portis goes. Right now he's just not right, and as a result the entire offense just isn't right.[/quote]

I'd agree, but Portis was racking up loads of yards against the Rams, Browns, and Lions and yet our scoring and passing offense struggled in each of those games.

Frankly, I have issues with the playcalling. Zorn's going to be just fine, but he's turned very, very conservative in these past few weeks. Some would say pass protection is the problem, but I say our pass protection woes are largely a function of our reluctance to go deep.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

We really seem to struggle in the short field and tight spaces. And our line blows

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

Its the line. They're just very good, plain and simple. Jansen got beasted again tonight, and outside of Samuels, theres alot of guys who are not pulling their weight, Jansen is just the easiest to pick on.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

I think it's a combination of the offensive line and the receivers. Even though Portis wasn't 100% tonight he was still making beastly plays. The run sets up the pass.

Exhibit A shows that there was absolutely no pass protection tonight. Campbell might as well have been running around with a RB, FB, TE and 2 WRs. Rabach absolutely stinks as a center. It's time for him to kick bricks. Jansen as well. I'm willing to keep Thomas, Kendall and Samuels and start rebuilding from there. Maybe investing in some good younger guys since Kendall and Thomas are up there in age.

Exhibit B is the fact we don't have anyone to compliment Moss. Like I was saying in the other thread, Moss is our bread and butter and while ARE is good, I think he fits better as a #3, he's a burner. A guy to come in, speed by the nickle guy, and make a play. Someone else pointed out Brandon Lloyd was brought in to be our #2 (and we all know how that ended), and looks like we never filled that void.

During the off-season we need to completely rebuild the offensive line (excluding those I mentioned earlier) and try to bring in a #2.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;501610]I'd agree, but Portis was racking up loads of yards against the Rams, Browns, and Lions and yet our scoring and passing offense struggled in each of those games.

Frankly, I have issues with the playcalling. Zorn's going to be just fine, but he's turned very, very conservative in these past few weeks. Some would say pass protection is the problem, [B]but I say our pass protection woes are largely a function of our reluctance to go deep[/B].[/quote]

Huh? It's exactly the other way around. We can't go deep because the linemen aren't protecting Campbell long enough for the receivers to GET deep.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

I have to say it's the O-line. There's simply no time for Campbell to go deep when fast pass rushers are chasing him down(i.e DeMarcus Ware).

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

I agree with Beem here. It's the line. Zorn himself said he had to change his playcalling to deal with the lack of pass pro. And he pointed out that several plays where they went short actually have a first read deep. JC is getting pressure and saving what he can. He does not have time to sit back and let a long route develop. So he goes short. The screens were called to try to relieve some of the pressure. If the line could block, you wouldn't need to do that.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;501614]During the off-season we need to completely rebuild the offensive line (excluding those I mentioned earlier) and try to bring in a #2.[/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree with your first point, but strongly disagree with your second point. We've brought in David Patten, Brandon Lloyd, Antwaan Randle El, Devin Thomas, and Malcolm Kelly to become our #2 wideouts. Spend money on free agent linemen and linebackers and try to develop Kelly and Thomas. Bringing in a new wideout to play #2 would mean that either Malcolm Kelly or Devin Thomas would be relegated to the #5 wideout, James Thrash would be cut and Fred Davis wouldn't see the field until he got put on another team. Moss, Portis, Cooley, ARE, Davis, Kelly and Thomas should be enough weapons for Campbell.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=JWsleep;501622]I agree with Beem here. It's the line. Zorn himself said he had to change his playcalling to deal with the lack of pass pro. And he pointed out that several plays where they went short actually have a first read deep. JC is getting pressure and saving what he can. He does not have time to sit back and let a long route develop. So he goes short. The screens were called to try to relieve some of the pressure. If the line could block, you wouldn't need to do that.[/quote]With 3 second round draft picks, we could have, and probably should have used one to address the O-line. This team has serious issues on both lines. The offensive line can't protect the QB for anything greater than a 3 step drop, and the D-line can't pressure the opposing QB without blitzing. Consider this - the Redskins haven't drafted an O or D lineman before the 3rd round since Chris Samuels in 2000. You reap what you sow...

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;501627]I wholeheartedly agree with your first point, but strongly disagree with your second point. We've brought in David Patten, Brandon Lloyd, Antwaan Randle El, Devin Thomas, and Malcolm Kelly to become our #2 wideouts. Spend money on free agent linemen and linebackers and try to develop Kelly and Thomas. Bringing in a new wideout to play #2 would mean that either Malcolm Kelly or Devin Thomas would be relegated to the #5 wideout, James Thrash would be cut and Fred Davis wouldn't see the field until he got put on another team. Moss, Portis, Cooley, ARE, Davis, Kelly and Thomas should be enough weapons for Campbell.[/quote]

I see your point, but I also hear people saying Thomas isn't an NFL caliber receiver (which I disagree with, but I sorta have a crush on the guy. Hope he starts developing), Kelly I've almost completely forgotten about, Thrash is also getting the term, "not NFL caliber" thrown around... Plus he's a little on the old side. And Fred Davis isn't even seeing the field anyway (which is bugging me a little as well).

To me it seems like we've brought in a bunch of "maybes" and no "definitelys" and what sucks even worse, is there's no real way to tell because most of these guys hardly get any playing time.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;501630]With 3 second round draft picks, we could have, and probably should have used one to address the O-line. This team has serious issues on both lines. The offensive line can't protect the QB for anything greater than a 3 step drop, and the D-line can't pressure the opposing QB without blitzing. [B]Consider this - the Redskins haven't drafted an O or D lineman before the 3rd round since Chris Samuels in 2000. You reap what you sow[/B]...[/quote]

Bingo -- Bammo.

They haven't drafted a defensive lineman in the first two rounds since Kenard Lang in 1997.

What, did they just think they can go around the league to other teams' trash heaps for all the D-linemen they need?

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

I think it's a combination. The line is playing bad, and that translates to Jason Campbell. When Campbell doesn't trust his line to give him more time, he puts more pressure on himself. And sometimes it gets to his head, I mean when the defense gets to his head then he doesn't start reacting properly, like he doesn't recognize where the blitz is coming from and doesn't make the proper adjustments, like adjusting the line call or audibling to a play that will counter the blitz effectively.

It also doesn't help that we don't have much wr depth. When Randle El had to leave the game we didn't have anyone that effectively replaced him. Thomas was in there but as we all know by now he can't be counted on to replace a guy like Randle El at this point yet. And where was Thrash? I didn't even see him tonight when Randle El left, and I thought that was strange, because he should be the guy to replace him.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

I'm just not prepared to say Kelly, Thomas, and Davis are done. To write off an NFL receiver after half of their rookie season is not fair. We essentially spent a high first round pick on these three guys. If we don't give them a chance to develop, we deserve to lose.

As for the offense in general, I guarantee our offense will be more dynamic, unpredictable and effective if we start attempting to go deep. I'll take few sacks for a few 20+ yard throws any Sunday.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;501639]Bingo -- Bammo.

They haven't drafted a defensive lineman in the first two rounds since Kenard Lang in 1997.

What, did they just think they can go around the league to other teams' trash heaps for all the D-linemen they need?[/quote]

Well, there is FA. Rabach and Thomas were upgrades. I think Thomas especially was a good pickup, though injuries have killed him.

DL is hard to draft, I'm afraid. Unless you're in the top 10, it's something of a crap shoot. But they need to draft on the oline, especially with Buges there to coach em up. That's been a glaring error.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;501642]I'm just not prepared to say Kelly, Thomas, and Davis are done. To write off an NFL receiver after half of their rookie season is not fair. We essentially spent a high first round pick on these three guys. If we don't give them a chance to develop, we deserve to lose.

As for the offense in general, I guarantee our offense will be more dynamic, unpredictable and effective if we start attempting to go deep. I'll take few sacks for a few 20+ yard throws any Sunday.[/quote]

Good post.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;501642]I'm just not prepared to say Kelly, Thomas, and Davis are done. To write off an NFL receiver after half of their rookie season is not fair. We essentially spent a high first round pick on these three guys. If we don't give them a chance to develop, we deserve to lose.

As for the offense in general, I guarantee our offense will be more dynamic, unpredictable and effective if we start attempting to go deep. [B] I'll take few sacks for a few 20+ yard throws any Sunday.[/B][/quote]

That shouldn't have to be the trade-off.

The wideouts don't have a chance to get 20 yards downfield before the QB is running for his life.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

I had to go with playcalling. Now I know our pass protection has been horrible and it's easy to blame the o-line, but Zorn needs to come up with different schemes/playcalling to effectively compensate for our weaknesses. Let's face it the good coaches come up with ways to make up for their weaknesses and that's what Zorn and the offensive staff need to do.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;501642]I'm just not prepared to say Kelly, Thomas, and Davis are done. To write off an NFL receiver after half of their rookie season is not fair. We essentially spent a high first round pick on these three guys. If we don't give them a chance to develop, we deserve to lose.

As for the offense in general, [B]I guarantee our offense will be more dynamic, unpredictable and effective if we start attempting to go deep. I'll take few sacks for a few 20+ yard throws any Sunday.[/quote][/B]
Thank you Sheriff. Thank you.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=53Fan;501657]
Thank you Sheriff. Thank you.[/quote]

We got sacked 3 times yesterday and we got only one pass over 20 yards.
So in a sense, Sheriff got half of what he wanted in this little trade-off he talked about.

With this line, we're getting the sacked all right. But like I keep saying, the receivers don't have time to get downfield for those long passes.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

This one's easy. Our line is not giving Campbell the time that it did earlier in the season. They looked completely outclassed for the majority of that game. It's easy to criticize the playcalling, but it's pretty difficult to run much more than a conservative look when your QB is consistently under pressure. I don't think you can blame this on Portis's injury either. We have serious issues in both run and pass blocking and, unless they are addressed somehow, this could be a lost season.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

Zorn was right. This is the time in the season when the good teams start to separate themselves.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=djnemo65;501690]This one's easy. Our line is not giving Campbell the time that it did earlier in the season. They looked completely outclassed for the majority of that game. It's easy to criticize the playcalling, but it's pretty difficult to run much more than a conservative look when your QB is consistently under pressure. I don't think you can blame this on Portis's injury either. We have serious issues in both run and pass blocking and, unless they are addressed somehow, this could be a lost season.[/quote]

I agree.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

Our line is awful. Just is. We cannot pass protect at all. It is hard to throw the ball downfield if JC is getting pressured constantly. If we can't throw downfield they can stack the line which kills our running game. Rinse repeat. It is time our FO started understanding the value of building through our lines. We continue to roll the dice each year with our lines and it is biting us in the ass pretty good right now. Too old too slow and not nearly good enough.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

This is a combination of line play and play calling.
If you noticed in the first month the line was playing better when the defenses didn't know what to expect because Zorn was new.
Well since then, Zorn continues to call the same exact plays regardless of opponent, thinking we can simply execute.
There were no adjustments for the Pitt defense with misdirection, screens, draws...etc
There were no adjustments for the Dallas weakness...deep passes in the secondary.

Bottom line is Zorn hasn't made any playcalling adjustments...certainly not at halftime.
And this one he had 2 weeks to plan.
It is entirely possible that this head coaching thing is taking so much of his time that he cannot dedicate to put in new plays and adjust offensive play calling as well as he should.

The lines play becomes easier if the defense is either off balance or if there is a lot of smash mouth running (since our lines strength is run blocking)
Right now, neither is going on.....how hard is it to predict a slant on 3rd and 3 anyways?

I am also getting a bit concerned on Zorn's ability to "inspire" the team for big games.
The defense seems "ok" but they dont have a killer instinct.
The offense needs a major adjustment, it has for weeks....if Pitt and Dallas after a bye doesn't result in an adjustment....I don't know what will.
Get ready for some more vanilla offense.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=JWsleep;501622]I agree with Beem here. It's the line. Zorn himself said he had to change his playcalling to deal with the lack of pass pro. [B]And he pointed out that several plays where they went short actually have a first read deep.[/B] JC is getting pressure and saving what he can. He does not have time to sit back and let a long route develop. So he goes short. The screens were called to try to relieve some of the pressure. If the line could block, you wouldn't need to do that.[/quote]

i think the problems are a combination of everything, when you have problems are every level of your offense they compound each other.

seems every week coach zorn is pointing out plays where we had a long ball called then explaining for one reason or another why it never materialized. just speculation on my part but aside from pass pro problems and a lack of depth at wr, i think JC only throws the long ball if he has single coverage and he actually sees his man open. JC might be too gun shy given gibbs pounded it into his head to protect the ball and throw sideline.

the play he lofted it up to moss who almost made a play on the ball was JC throwing it up there b/c he had to given the situation.

Maybe JC is being too selective when he wants to throw the long ball, only wanting to let it go when a guy is wide open?

i dont know, but we have problems now that he run game has slowed down.

go skins!!

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

Seems pretty clear to me that it's the offensive line, specifically in pass protection. The run blocking is pretty damn good or we wouldn't have the league's leading rusher.

Jason Campbell is just under duress the entire game. I don't think it's cause he's holding on to the ball to long most of the time, there's just no pocket or it disintegrates within a second or so of the snap.

Porous is about the only way to describe our pass protection right now.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=FRPLG;501710]Our line is awful. Just is. We cannot pass protect at all. It is hard to throw the ball downfield if JC is getting pressured constantly. If we can't throw downfield they can stack the line which kills our running game. Rinse repeat. [B]It is time our FO started understanding the value of building through our lines[/B]. We continue to roll the dice each year with our lines and it is biting us in the ass pretty good right now. Too old too slow and not nearly good enough.[/quote]I've been saying this for years - [I]consistently great teams are built from the inside-out[/I], concentrating on superiority in the trenches. New England spent 1st round picks on Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, and Logan Mankins. Todd Light was a 2nd rounder. The Gibbs 1.0 teams included great drafting [I]and development[/I] of linemen. Snyder/Cerrato need to get back to that mentality.

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I think its a lot of things. Teams have figured that Campbell cant beat them deep so they can sell out to stop the run or really rush the passer and force Campbell to beat them and he just cant do that.

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Our offense, without Portis at 100 percent, and without a No. 2 receiver, is impotent. Opposing teams now know what to do: Pressure Campbell, period. JC is a good QB, but is not yet at the point where he can beat hard-hitting defenses without a solid running game.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

1. Same as last year, we can't throw the ball
2. The line iisn't very good at pass pro
3. The wr's are ok but they can't take over a game.
4. The scheme sucks....too many 5 yard passes.

Can someone explain on 4th and 4, when the game is on the line, we're throwing a 2 yard pass???? WTF Zorn????

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;501724]1. Same as last year, we can't throw the ball
2. The line iisn't very good at pass pro
3. The wr's are ok but they can't take over a game.
4. The scheme sucks....too many 5 yard passes.

Can someone explain on 4th and 4, when the game is on the line, we're throwing a 2 yard pass???? WTF Zorn????[/quote]

They have to throw those short passes (I call them long handoffs) because if Moss isnt open for anything longer then JC cant find another open receiver. They were hoping for a 2yd pass and a 3 yd RAC instead of a sack or incomplete. I still think JC locks onto the primary receiver and if he's not open then JC gets stuck and the result is a sack or throw away.

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[quote=irish;501726]They have to throw those short passes (I call them long handoffs) because if Moss isnt open for anything longer then JC cant find another open receiver. They were hoping for a 2yd pass and a 3 yd RAC instead of a sack or incomplete. I still think JC locks onto the primary receiver and if he's not open then JC gets stuck and the result is a sack or throw away.[/quote]

I just think it's a bunch of bullshit. Why is Moss running a 2 yard pattern on 4th and 4? I'm not sure if JC is not getting off of his 1st guy. But I'm just sooooooooo damn tired of all these short passes.

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[quote=skinsfan69;501730]I just think it's a bunch of bullshit. Why is Moss running a 2 yard pattern on 4th and 4? I'm not sure if JC is not getting off of his 1st guy. But I'm just sooooooooo damn tired of all these short passes.[/quote]

Like I said, they are hoping for something to happen after the catch. Any longer pass takes too long to develop and if the receiver isnt open than JC doesnt know what to do and seems to get sacked. Better to get 2 yds with the potentail for 2 or 3 more than a sack or incomplete and no chance of getting the yds.

They have to do all these short passes because JC cant look off receivers and throw deep.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;501730]I just think it's a bunch of bullshit. Why is Moss running a 2 yard pattern on 4th and 4? I'm not sure if JC is not getting off of his 1st guy. But I'm just sooooooooo damn tired of all these short passes.[/quote]Yep, this garbage reminds me of Martyball in 2001, where we mastered the 5 yard completion on 3rd and 6.

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From my observations, when Campbell has time, he's hitting his wideouts no problem. However, the last few weeks, it seems the Skins O-Line has been struggling to keep their heads above water. No coincidence that the Skins offense has struggled to score.

Until the line starts consistently giving Campbell time to run the offense, the struggles will continue.

Re: Redskins Offense: What's the Problem?
 

[quote=irish;501731]They have to do all these short passes because JC cant look off receivers and throw deep.[/quote]

Dude, Jason's deep ball is one of the things I love about him. His short to intermediate throws are okay, but his accuracy on the deep ball is fantastic.