Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

So let's see if I have this right - Dallas trusts their backup TE drafted in the 2nd round to make a game winning catch in the 4th quarter of a key division game, but our TE drafted in the 2nd round can't get on the field for the Skins, who have scored a grand total of 16 points and one TD at home the past two weeks? We hear what a stud Davis looks like in practice, but Zorn can't find a place for him to impact the game on Sunday? I was vehemently against the Davis pick when there were more pressing depth issues on the O and D lines. But now that we have him, at least let the guy make an impact on Sunday. This is a completely wasted pick for this season if Zorn continues to leave Davis rotting on the pine. For that matter, is Devin Thomas only capable of running 5 yard curls? Until this offense gets something in the passing game from somebody not named Cooley or Moss, it is a very predictable passing attack to gameplan against.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

At the time, I thought it was a good pick for depth behind Chris Cooley if we ever lost him to injury.

But that's a steep price to pay for a backup tight end. Especially when your O-line has gotten old in the span of about 3 weeks.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Prediction: he's going to take Yoder's place next season.

Zorn has been slow to bring the rookies along. But that's fine, IMO. In this offense, they need to be very precise and they aren't there yet. Plus, all three have been hurt, delaying there progress. Don't give up on them yet!

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

On Devin Thomas: according to Zorn in his presser, on a play where JC threw to Cooley underneath after getting flushed from the pocket, DT was wide open for a TD if the pocket holds. So Devin is going deep. You set that up by running curls and outs. Then you play action and run a double move. And we did that. And the CB bit on the fake and Devin was open. But the protection broke down. JC scrambled and hit Cooley. But that shows how weak pass pro can make EVERYTHING look bad.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Why did we draft Malcolm Kelly for him to be hurt all season? Who knows. I wonder if any rookie o-lineman would have worked out. I do know that I was wrong in thinking that we needed a free agent WR. We needed a free agent lineman, since that seems to be the cause of a lot of our troubles lately.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

2009 #1 pick should be OLine.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=JWsleep;501626][B]Prediction: he's going to take Yoder's place next season. [/B]

Zorn has been slow to bring the rookies along. But that's fine, IMO. In this offense, they need to be very precise and they aren't there yet. Plus, all three have been hurt, delaying there progress. Don't give up on them yet![/quote]

Sad. I like Yoder. The guy is money down on the goal line.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;501638]Sad. I like Yoder. The guy is money down on the goal line.[/quote]

Wait until you see Davis unleashed!!!! (I really hope!)

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

We had threads like this on Rogers, Campbell, and I think McIntosh as well.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;501646]We had threads like this on Rogers, Campbell, and I think McIntosh as well.[/quote]My point is that sometimes you should veer from your draft board and go for positional needs. We had already locked Cooley up long term, so TE wasn't a great need. Cooley has never missed a game due to injury, [I]so you're effectively drafting a #2 TE with a 2nd round pick[/I]. If you're not going to even try to get Davis on the field in 2 TE packages, then it's pretty clear that drafting for other positional needs would be helping the team more at this point.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;501654]My point is that sometimes you should veer from your draft board and go for positional needs. We had already locked Cooley up long term, so TE wasn't a great need. Cooley has never missed a game due to injury, [I]so you're effectively drafting a #2 TE with a 2nd round pick[/I]. If you're not going to even try to get Davis on the field in 2 TE packages, then it's pretty clear that drafting for other positional needs would be helping the team more at this point.[/quote]

I agree we should have drafted more for the lines, but my guess is Davis will be the #2 TE and a serious receiving threat next year.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=JWsleep;501658]I agree we should have drafted more for the lines, but my guess is Davis will be the #2 TE and a serious receiving threat next year.[/quote]But why can't Davis be a receiving threat now? Is Yoder really that much better as the #2 TE today?

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Well, if we're talking Bennett vs. Fred Davis strictly, I thought Bennett was the better prospect. I was surprised we passed over him for Davis. Luckily, we had just taken Devin Thomas over Jordy Nelson and DeSean Jackson, so my ire was directed elsewhere.

But unlike DT, I have no reason to doubt that Fred Davis will be a quality WR/TE hybrid in this league. I want to say we haven't needed him yet, but that's just not true. We have needed him, and we're just digging in all the wrong places for help at WR.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Watching Davis play in college, it is pretty obvious that he can run and he can catch the football. That is what got him drafted.

As to why he isn't on the field over Yoder - who is a decent TE but nothing more - it really has to be one of two reasons. And you will never get an NFL coach to tell you which one:

1. He isn't smart enough to understand his responsibilities on a wide enough spectrum of plays that they don't dare put him out there for much of anything lest he make a big mistake.


2. He can't block at all and putting him there could place Jason Campbell and/or any of the running backs in serious danger.


It pretty much has to be something along the lines of one of those two things...

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

As a slot receiver, I think the argument can be made that he doesn't provide any abilities in a spread-em-out throw it around type situation that James Thrash doesn't have.

However, the argument that can not be made is that Todd Yoder is somehow better than Fred Davis because of his veteran presence or something. Davis>Yoder and it's really not even close. Yoder blocks like a WR and receives like a lineman.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

I also think there was no plan to get him into the gameplan at all this game because our strategy was to spread Dallas out presnap and exploit matchups. So no reason for a second TE. Or Sellers, after the first drive, apparently.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;501668]Watching Davis play in college, it is pretty obvious that he can run and he can catch the football. That is what got him drafted.

As to why he isn't on the field over Yoder - who is a decent TE but nothing more - it really has to be one of two reasons. And you will never get an NFL coach to tell you which one:

1. He isn't smart enough to understand his responsibilities on a wide enough spectrum of plays that they don't dare put him out there for much of anything lest he make a big mistake.


2. He can't block at all and putting him there could place Jason Campbell and/or any of the running backs in serious danger.


It pretty much has to be something along the lines of one of those two things...[/quote]

I bet it's more in line with #1, combined with Zorn's penchant for very precise play. Zorn has been slow to let the rooks on the field at WR too. What's odd is Zorn had him in more earlier, it seems to me. Maybe he's regressed some in practice.

If he can't block (or at least block better than Yoder), we've got a problem. Let's hope he can be coached up.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

I'm sorry if stated earlier but here's my take....we were not pass blocking. It doesn't matter who you put in with no pass blocking. Also they (Dallas)were not getting the ball to anyone so I see them using him as a despiration move.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

^ I was actually going to make a smart comment like....." we drafted him for our two TE sets" that we never see. lol. but decided against it.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;501620]So let's see if I have this right - Dallas trusts their backup TE drafted in the 2nd round to make a game winning catch in the 4th quarter of a key division game, but our TE drafted in the 2nd round can't get on the field for the Skins, who have scored a grand total of 16 points and one TD at home the past two weeks? We hear what a stud Davis looks like in practice, but Zorn can't find a place for him to impact the game on Sunday? I was vehemently against the Davis pick when there were more pressing depth issues on the O and D lines. But now that we have him, at least let the guy make an impact on Sunday. This is a completely wasted pick for this season if Zorn continues to leave Davis rotting on the pine. For that matter, is Devin Thomas only capable of running 5 yard curls? Until this offense gets something in the passing game from somebody not named Cooley or Moss, it is a very predictable passing attack to gameplan against.[/quote]


Why did we draft davis? straight from vinny's mouth he said they had davis graded out as a first round talent and he was available in the second round . . . just like when he had taylor jacobs graded out as a first round talent and got him early in the second round.

also vinny said you can find good talent on O and D line in the later part of the draft, he then rattled off names like rob jackson, golston others.

lol and dont give vinny credit for horton, as vinny said they picked him in the compensation round after the 7th round so he had no idea either because if he did he said he would have drafted him in the 2nd round.

i have zero faith in vinny. JC and cooley were joe gibbs picks, dont know about landry ST or rogers.

go skins!!!

edit: i would have liked to spread the 2nd round picks to other areas of the team, but i have no problem with the guys we got. they could have contributed more so far but their time to contribute is coming in a few years when moss slows and ARE is gone.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;501620]So let's see if I have this right - Dallas trusts their backup TE drafted in the 2nd round to make a game winning catch in the 4th quarter of a key division game, but our TE drafted in the 2nd round can't get on the field for the Skins, who have scored a grand total of 16 points and one TD at home the past two weeks? We hear what a stud Davis looks like in practice, but Zorn can't find a place for him to impact the game on Sunday? I was vehemently against the Davis pick when there were more pressing depth issues on the O and D lines. But now that we have him, at least let the guy make an impact on Sunday. This is a completely wasted pick for this season if Zorn continues to leave Davis rotting on the pine. For that matter, is Devin Thomas only capable of running 5 yard curls? Until this offense gets something in the passing game from somebody not named Cooley or Moss, it is a very predictable passing attack to gameplan against.[/quote]

I could not agree with you more, get this guy on the field....NOW!

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

I think the real question is, Do you draft for the best overall player? Or, Do you draft for need?

I guess we drafted for best overall player. The problem w/ that is bringing 2 WRT rooks up to speed at the same time. It's hurting our team right now.

I'm not necessarily down on Thomas, Kelly, Davis. I think we could have something there w/ their size and talent.

Maybe we should have added some oline depth in their somewhere or maybe some d line depth in there. We need to spend about 3 - 4 picks just on lineman.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Some of you expecting EVERY draft pick to immediately get significant playing time and make big contributions can never be satisfied. Davis is a great depth player, a big blocker when we need him and if Cooley misses time, he could fill in as a receiving TE reasonably well. He's not a first-rounder, drafted to start and fill a need. I have no complaints about him and believe he'll be useful if not valuable in the future.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

I did see Fred on the field several times last night too.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=drew54;501637]2009 #1 pick should be OLine.[/quote]Yes but we have NO pass rush as well! We need a lot wilth little picks coming in 09!

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

I just heard Zorn's Monday afternoon presser, and he says that it comes down to a trust issue as to whether Davis will run the correct assignment/route. Apparently, he's showing great ability, but still isn't there on the mental side. Let's hope that the rookie receivers get it together soon, because this offense really needs a shot in the arm.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;501851]I just heard Zorn's Monday afternoon presser, and he says that it comes down to a trust issue as to whether Davis will run the correct assignment/route. Apparently, he's showing great ability, [B]but still isn't there on the mental side[/B]. Let's hope that the rookie receivers get it together soon, because this offense really needs a shot in the arm.[/quote]

That's the same issue that Devin Thomas is having. Are these guys really such mental midgets that after training camp, 5 preseason games, and 10 regular season games, they can't learn assignments? That's troubling. I appreciate Zorn's explanation, but it's far from an excuse.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

I guess Desean Jackson and Eddie Royal never make mental mistakes?

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Other than Chris Horton, this draft class is not making an impact this year. None of the 2nd round picks have made an impact. The punter that was drafted was a bust. Tryon and Moore have helped on special teams but nothing more.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;501894]Other than Chris Horton, this draft class is not making an impact this year. None of the 2nd round picks have made an impact. The punter that was drafted was a bust. Tryon and Moore have helped on special teams but nothing more.[/quote]Well, you never EXPECT rookies to contribute. You need them to learn the ways of the game during their rookie season, and contribute later. Rookies that can contribute are incredibly valuable, and Horton looks like a complete steal.

Thomas' on the field woes are huge causes for concern. Davis and Kelly should pass him by next year. If they don't we have a problem.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;501902]Well, you never EXPECT rookies to contribute. You need them to learn the ways of the game during their rookie season, and contribute later. Rookies that can contribute are incredibly valuable, and Horton looks like a complete steal.

Thomas' on the field woes are huge causes for concern. Davis and Kelly should pass him by next year. If they don't we have a problem.[/quote]

You do expect high second round picks and the supposed top players at their positions in the draft to be able to get on the field thou. Heck even be able to get on the field and make some catches.

This is why you don't draft receivers, especially 3 of them, with your top picks. They have the most trouble moving to the pros. After Desmond Howard, Westbrook and Gardner you would think we would know that by now. Stick with defensive players and offensive line which we have hit on for the most part with our top picks.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=Jake2008;501909]You do expect high second round picks and the supposed top players at their positions in the draft to be able to get on the field thou. Heck even be able to get on the field and make some catches.

This is why you don't draft receivers, especially 3 of them, with your top picks. They have the most trouble moving to the pros. After Desmond Howard, Westbrook and Gardner you would think we would know that by now. Stick with defensive players and offensive line which we have hit on for the most part with our top picks.[/quote]Yeah, you expect them to be able to handle simple tasks when asked to, but so far, we've only had one receiver fail at this.

This Fred Davis thread is important, because at the very least, shouldn't he be getting Devin Thomas' reps when he fails to do simple things like check into the huddle correctly? I understand he doesn't have the downfield speed that caused us to draft Devin Thomas, but I have to think that he can line up and run the hitch at least as effectively right now.

We'll reevaluate where these guys are next year before we say the draft was a total waste.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/11/fred_davis_-_trust_issues.html]Zorn's Issue with Davis Is Lack of Trust - Redskins Insider[/url]

This basically sums up Zorn's reasons for keeping Davis on the bench.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Well if he can't trust the guy after this long then let him go.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Davis, Thomas, and Kelly need to f'ing wake up. This is the pros now. They are making excellent money to do a job. At least be professional enough to come to camp in condition and dedicate yourselves to learning the offense. This is incredibly discouraging when I see DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal making an impact for their teams from DAY ONE!!!

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=firstdown;501926]Well if he can't trust the guy after this long then let him go.[/quote]I agree. We've seen Devin Thomas hurt this team on gameday. If Zorn really believes that we're no better off with Davis in there, then it's probably time to give up on it.

I would get him on the field to be sure and see if he can handle it, and if he fails like DT has, there's no reason to force him onto the field next year.

Please, Malcolm Kelly, please be something like what you looked to be in college.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=GMScud;501877]That's the same issue that Devin Thomas is having. Are these guys really such mental midgets that after training camp, 5 preseason games, and 10 regular season games, they can't learn assignments? That's troubling. I appreciate Zorn's explanation, but it's far from an excuse.[/quote]

There in lies part of the problem. We picked supposedly the best available player, in a position we needed help imediatly which is why some of us were screaming for CJ (Chad Johnson). The other lot of you said no lets go get a brand new younger WR from the draft so we can put on the field imediatly and have for years. Now you see what us others were worried about, that any drafted WR would not be able to contribute at all imediatly. I also stated I was not impressed with our WR coach. He for what ever reason can't seem to teach even our vetran WR's how to run a route or shake a defender off. Why we picked him up from the college ranks is beyond me cause he seems to have no idea what to teach at the pro level. Moss and ARE should have taken one WR under their wing and taught them the system and route running for that particular WR...ie; X,Z, and whatever other letter you can think of. Then next year have Moss and ARE trade the rookie WR's and train them in the other pattern running.

Likewise...Cooley should have had to take Davis under his wing and train him on the routes and play calling.

...but no one will catch a ball if our QB is constantly running for his life. Why they don't have more roll out patterns for JC is also again beyond me. If the opposing D is getting a good push up the middle constantly roll out. Get away from the rush. Another thing. Dallas changed up at the half and used max protect in the back field. I guess we don't have something like that for our QB? as I keep stating they are using the TTB in the wrong fashion. He was never a run between the tackles kind of RB. He was a push to the outside/edge, pass catching RB. What do we do with him? hand him the ball and say run up the middle. What did we get a loss of 1?

I know it's easy for me to solve their problems since I'm the Monday moring, couch potato coach....but I still have a problem with our 2 min drill that Zorn last week said he was satisfied with. No hurry up offense.

The only consolation I have is I [B]hope[/B] we can beat Seatle. This should be an easy weekend for us. A true day to put up the numbers if there ever was one.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Am I suppose to believe that DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal picked up their offenses just like that and Fred Davis and Devin Thomas are taking forever to do the same? Are Philly's and Denver's offenses that much simpler than ours or our guys that much slower to pick things up? Or is it that those teams had a bigger need for a starter right away? Jackson spiked a ball on his way to a touchdown before he crossed the goal-line. Does that instill trust? And yes he did make the catch. It's a whole lot easier to make a catch when you're actually thrown the ball. Do those guys never make mistakes or do their coaches play them knowing they may make mistakes, but they are capable of making big plays also and will learn more by actually participating in the offense? Which players will be further along next year, the ones who have played this year and actually been targeted as part of the game plan, or the ones who will be played and targeted after they prove they won't ever make any mistakes? God forbid anything happen to Moss or Cooley to keep them out of a game, but I do wonder how Davis and Thomas would respond if some of the burden were put on them to make plays.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

[quote=53Fan;501955]Am I suppose to believe that DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal picked up their offenses just like that and Fred Davis and Devin Thomas are taking forever to do the same? Are Philly's and Denver's offenses that much simpler than ours or our guys that much slower to pick things up? Or is it that those teams had a bigger need for a starter right away? Jackson spiked a ball on his way to a touchdown before he crossed the goal-line. Does that instill trust? And yes he did make the catch. It's a whole lot easier to make a catch when you're actually thrown the ball. Do those guys never make mistakes or do their coaches play them knowing they may make mistakes, but they are capable of making big plays also and will learn more by actually participating in the offense? Which players will be further along next year, the ones who have played this year and actually been targeted as part of the game plan, or the ones who will be played and targeted after they prove they won't ever make any mistakes? God forbid anything happen to Moss or Cooley to keep them out of a game, but I do wonder how Davis and Thomas would respond if some of the burden were put on them to make plays.[/quote]

Good post. Sort of curious what would happen if Zorn specifically called out Thomas or Davis to rise to the occasion at this point.

Re: Why Did We Draft Fred Davis?
 

Eddie Royal is a great route runner and got a good jump on the trust factor in weeks 1 & 2 when Marshall was suspended. He stepped up when called upon and quickly ingrained himself in Denver's offense. I wasn't surprised. I wish we had drafted him.

Desean Jackson is a burner who happens to play on a team with no established pass catchers not named Westbrook. He's taken advantage of his opportunity. I''m glad we don't have him since he's an embarrassing punk.

Also, both Cutler and McNabb are in offenses that are very pass-friendly. Both have well over 60+ pass attempts than Jason Campbell. Lastly, Denver and Philly have been using the same offense for a long time. Familiarity breeds confidence. This time next year we should see marked improvement with all of our draft picks. Our pass protection simply sucks right now and will need to be issue #1 this off-season starting with Rabach's dismissal and Jansen's retirement.