What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

I mentioned this in the game thread, but I feel it has to be something more than just the offensive line.

I mean we can't break big runs, we can't make deep passes, we can't protect the QB, we can't put points on the board, we can't even hold onto the ball

Is it the players? The coaches? Being too emotional? Maybe it all does come right back down to the offensive line?

What do you think? And how do you feel about the remainder of the season?

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

Lots of nagging injuries to key players.

Samuels knee

Portis knee, ribs, ankle

Carter foot

Fletcher foot

Washington ankle, shoulder

Golston foot

Taylor calf

Also not enough depth at LB, DE and age is catching up at OL and lack of experience at the WR position (we'll get better)

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

The offensive line, Suisham, the linebackers besides Fletcher, and no DT push into the face of the quarterback

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

The bottom line is that the redskins don't match up well with physical teams like the giants, steelers, and cowboys. Lucky, we have a favorable schedule down the stretch, and we can easily finish 10-6 or 11-5 hopefully.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

Defense strongpoint-solid. Weakpoint-cannot play effectively for 48 minutes a game.
Offense-no execution. run blocking, pass protection, route running, (how many times can you run a route 1 yard short of the first), KICKING!!!!

Solution-cut the Offense, and trade for 25 more D guys to play 60 minutes on D

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

This might sound crazy but i think its Campbell. He can't convert on third down and can't score a touch downs.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

Nobody mentioned that we played some really good teams, and today we played the now 11-1 defending Super Bowl champions who are arguably the best team in football, and certainly the best in the NFC.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=DesertHog;505734]This might sound crazy but i think its Campbell. He can't convert on third down and can't score a touch downs.[/quote]

Yeah that does sound crazy.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=mheisig;505735]Nobody mentioned that we played some really good teams, and today we played the now 11-1 defending Super Bowl champions who are arguably the best team in football, and certainly the best in the NFC.[/quote]
Point well taken, BUT losing is one thing. Meltdown is another. TOOOOO many missed opp's. TOOOO many "dealbreakers", self-destruction.
Lack of execution

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=mheisig;505735]Nobody mentioned that we played some really good teams, and today we played the now 11-1 defending Super Bowl champions who are arguably the best team in football, and certainly the best in the NFC.[/quote]

We've also played some of the worse teams, who we've barely squeaked by with a win, with the exception of a bad team that beat us. (Rams). Elite teams don't almost get beat by bad teams. Hell, average teams don't almost get beat by bad teams.

There's no reason that we struggled against an 0-12 team and lent a win to a 2-9 team. It makes no sense.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=DesertHog;505734]This might sound crazy but i think its Campbell. He can't convert on third down and can't score a touch downs.[/quote]

I would agree with you, if Campbell were dropping balls. ARE, Thrash, and Kelly dropped 3 balls on 3rd downs - killing three drives.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=mheisig;505735]Nobody mentioned that we played some really good teams, and today we played the now 11-1 defending Super Bowl champions who are arguably the best team in football, and certainly the best in the NFC.[/quote]

Thank you! Please stop the madness of woe is us, why can't we always win, wah, wah, wah..

We played the best team in football today, we played the team that all of the 'experts' said was the best team in football 2 weeks ago, we played one of the best teams in the AFC right before that. If we lose next week then we would have lost to 4 of the top 6 teams in the NFL. There's no shame in that!! Of course we would have liked to have won all of those games but just because we didn't doesn't mean we suck and the season is over.

We're still in very good shape to make the playoffs which most people thought unimaginable before the season started.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=Hog1;505730]Defense strongpoint-solid. Weakpoint-cannot play effectively for 48 minutes a game.
Offense-no execution. run blocking, pass protection, route running, (how many times can you run a route 1 yard short of the first), KICKING!!!!

Solution-cut the Offense, and trade for 25 more D guys to play 60 minutes on D[/quote]

That about sums it up.

I will say that dropped passes alone took us out of this game. Every WR dropped at least one save Thomas I believe. I saw the ball bounce off hands, chests, shoulder pads, and the face mask. Just doesn't look like an NFL caliber receiving corp, and I'm beginning to very seriously wonder if it's something in the coaching. Dropped passes lost us the playoff game last year IMHO and have always been way too common when we try to throw the ball regularly. We've seen it over and over w/ Moss, El, Thrash. But here's what gets me: Malcolm Kelly was very sure-handed in college and now he's got passes bouncing off his hands and his chest. Somehow it does not appear the guys are maintaining eye-hand coordination - something so fucking basic i really can't believe i'm typing it out but that's what i'm seeing on gameday...

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;505738]We've also played some of the worse teams, who we've barely squeaked by with a win, with the exception of a bad team that beat us. (Rams). [b]Elite teams don't almost get beat by bad teams. Hell, average teams don't almost get beat by bad teams.[/b]

There's no reason that we struggled against an 0-12 team and lent a win to a 2-9 team. It makes no sense.[/quote]

The Giants lost to the Browns and squeaked by the Bengals in overtime. Your point is pointless.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

OL is average. Good DL either stop our running game or put lots of pressure on JC.

DL is below average. We put little pass rush on QB. Our outstanding DBs, including rookie Chris Horton make the DL look better.

ST are average or below. Kicking is very inconsistent. PR is really mediocre. KO returns don't scare anyone. Punting is ok for now.

We have a possible MVP RB with Clinton Portis. Jason Campbell is good but I wonder if he can win games alone [as the elite QB do] and I wonder if he will ever get to the next level. I want him to succeed but wonder if he can improve to the top level.

Our defense keeps the score down but doesn't get too many turnovers.

We're a good team. Probably will be 9-7 or 10-6. I don't think we will make the playoffs. We have fundamental OL / DL problems that will have to be addressed in the off-season.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

First year coach, first year offense. I think we tend to forget that. This is going to be a very good team... but not this year. The execution is not what it will be. Simple mistakes cost us THIS game. Thrash and Kelly both dropped passes on third down. Jasons INT intended to ARE could have been a TD but was underthrown. Simple FG.....missed. Hall has an INT coming right at him and Springs jumps in front of him and drops it. This offense is making mistakes that it won't make next year. We are not scoring points like we should be. I'm not making excuses, it's just a fact that this team is not as good in this offense this year as it will be next year.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=Paintrain;505744]The Giants lost to the Browns and squeaked by the Bengals in overtime. Your point is pointless.[/quote]

The Browns are an ok team. They aren't 0-12.

Comparing the Giants losing to the Browns to us losing to the Rams is pretty laughable. The Giants are proven winners, if they drop a game or two, they're still good.

The problem is the Redskins aren't even though have the potential to be.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

I think we're just not as good of a team as we all thought. We need improvement in some areas for sure (OL, DL) but I still think we have the talent. We just can't execute.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=DesertHog;505734]This might sound crazy but i think its Campbell. He can't convert on third down and can't score a touch downs.[/quote]
It doesn't sound crazy, it just sounds like you don't know anything about football. If you knew anything about football then yes, it would sound crazy.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=Paintrain;505741]Thank you! Please stop the madness of woe is us, why can't we always win, wah, wah, wah..

We played the best team in football today, we played the team that all of the 'experts' said was the best team in football 2 weeks ago, we played one of the best teams in the AFC right before that. If we lose next week then we would have lost to 4 of the top 6 teams in the NFL. There's no shame in that!! Of course we would have liked to have won all of those games but just because we didn't doesn't mean we suck and the season is over.

[B]We're still in very good shape to make the playoffs which most people thought unimaginable before the season started.[/B][/quote]

I feel like I'm in the presser when Jim Mora went ballistic over the playoffs question. Please, please don't talk about the playoffs like they mean something to this offense. Pleeeeeeaaaaaaaaaase. We lost today in the same fashion we've lost playoff games - utterly, totally uninspired offense w/ abysmal execution and wide-outs who look like transfers from NAIA football. The thought of watching this offense play another game like today's i.e. a playoff game makes me want to kick a puppy and start drinking heavy again.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=53Fan;505751]First year coach, first year offense. I think we tend to forget that. This is going to be a very good team... but not this year. The execution is not what it will be. Simple mistakes cost us THIS game. Thrash and Kelly both dropped passes on third down. Jasons INT intended to ARE could have been a TD but was underthrown. Simple FG.....missed. Hall has an INT coming right at him and Springs jumps in front of him and drops it. This offense is making mistakes that it won't make next year. We are not scoring points like we should be. I'm not making excuses, it's just a fact that this team is not as good in this offense this year as it will be next year.[/quote]

Goddamnit 53 i love your optimism (all seriousness here)! R u a motivational speaker?

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

Yes your right about Thrash, and Kelly dropping balls but i not sold on Campbell leading this team.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

The same thing that has plagued this team for 5 years. Offensive Line, defensive line and a lack of a second receiver.

It really does start up front though. Good teams, really good teams, take advantage of the Lines. Giants have an excellent dline and oline. Patriots for years had an excellent dline and oline. We lack both. We can sustain pressure at all from the front four. Our offensive line failed to open holes or protect JC. Nothing new for Redskins fans.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=53Fan;505751]First year coach, first year offense. I think we tend to forget that. This is going to be a very good team... but not this year. The execution is not what it will be. Simple mistakes cost us THIS game. Thrash and Kelly both dropped passes on third down. Jasons INT intended to ARE could have been a TD but was underthrown. Simple FG.....missed. Hall has an INT coming right at him and Springs jumps in front of him and drops it. This offense is making mistakes that it won't make next year. We are not scoring points like we should be. I'm not making excuses, it's just a fact that this team is not as good in this offense this year as it will be next year.[/quote]

I think there's no where but up to go from here. We don't downright stink, but next year will be better. Assuming Dan Synder doesn't get disgruntled and decide to blow up the team over the offseason.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;505752]The Browns are an ok team. They aren't 0-12.

Comparing the Giants losing to the Browns to us losing to the Rams is pretty laughable. The Giants are proven winners, if they drop a game or two, they're still good.

The problem is the Redskins aren't even though have the potential to be.[/quote]

You are contradicting yourself. You said good teams don't lose to bad teams. Cleveland is a bad team, no debating that.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=53Fan;505751]First year coach, first year offense. I think we tend to forget that. This is going to be a very good team... but not this year. The execution is not what it will be. Simple mistakes cost us THIS game. Thrash and Kelly both dropped passes on third down. Jasons INT intended to ARE could have been a TD but was underthrown. Simple FG.....missed. Hall has an INT coming right at him and Springs jumps in front of him and drops it. This offense is making mistakes that it won't make next year. We are not scoring points like we should be. I'm not making excuses, it's just a fact that this team is not as good in this offense this year as it will be next year.[/quote]

Good Point.
Next year I can see this offense putting up alot of points. JC will be more comfortable in the system. The rookies will contribute alot more. Teams will not be able to contain Moss and Portis and shut down the whole offense next season.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

The best teams have used their high draft picks for the OL and DL. We haven't done so in many years........Any question on why our trench play is average at best?

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=Paintrain;505767]You are contradicting yourself. You said good teams don't lose to bad teams. Cleveland is a bad team, no debating that.[/quote]

Everyone has bad games. Don't take things so literally. Even the Pats choked in the end, last year. Nobody expects perfection and you're dodging the point.

The point is that even though the Giants lost to the Browns, nobody is saying that they're an average team due to the fact they are winners. How often do the Giants choke or even struggle against a team with a losing record? Exactly.

How often do we? Yeah.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=redskinsgirl;505768]Good Point.
Next year I can see this offense putting up alot of points. JC will be more comfortable in the system. The rookies will contribute alot more. Teams will not be able to contain Moss and Portis and shut down the whole offense next season.[/quote]

Wait a second. Alot will depend on what the Redskins do. If they do not address pass protection issues, if they do not address right tackle, and by that I do not mean Stephon Heyer, this offense is not going to move the bal. I am compltely convinced the pains an dills of this offensive lines at the offensive line.

The redskins also need to find a real, legit second receiver, because we simply don't have one.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=mheisig;505735]Nobody mentioned that we played some really good teams, and today we played the now 11-1 defending Super Bowl champions who are arguably the best team in football, and certainly the best in the NFC.[/quote]


Fair enough we played the best team in football, but we are going to have to step up one day and actually beat these teams if we expect to get anywhere. Even if we do well down the stretch and by some miracle make the playoffs we will still have to face these so called "best teams in football". i am just tired of being let down by this team on a consistent basis. You get way up and hopeful in the beginning of the season and then finish it out like this. It is extremely disappointing

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

Inconsistent play by both the offensive and defensive lines is the number one problem against top competition. Until we get better in the trenches, we will continue to struggle.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

I think it is pretty glaring - we don't have the same level of top-tier physical talent in the trenches as the elite NFL teams.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

I dont care if I get banned, so ban me then. Jason Campbell sucks, I said it a long time ago, stop with the excuses please, he is too damn slow, Ive said it and I will say it again. How much time do we give this guy? Im saying it...there needs to be an open competition at QB this offseason. Enough with the blind optimism. There is being a fan and being blinded by emotion. When Portis doesnt hand hold the team and carry the team on his back, Campbell does NOTHING to win a game. Zorns playcalling is basic and predictable. We have zero TRUE recievers. We have two great athletes in Moss and Randle El, but they are not true recievers as far as being route runners, hence they always never seem to be open. Before I get blasted for telling the truth and probably banned, why the hell does everyone on this sight seemingly dissapprove of anyone telling the truth as opposed to blind optimism? Everyone talks of stability, and we have stunk offensively for years. Hell with that, im calling for an overhaul. Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Jansen, Rabach, Randle El, need to go, and Campbell should be given the rest of the year then challenged by Brennan or bring in someone else. Don't even get me started on Jason Taylor. To hell with this boring ass and ineffective offense. I love the Washington Redskins but I absolutely am disgusted with this current collection of players. I will say, atleast the defense played with some heart. Oh yeah, and I also believe i said the Hall signing was good too. I used to love this site but my god, if you say anything against the team you are some how not knowledgeable or a true fan. Playoffs?! Are you kidding?!

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

Jansen couldnt block a baby,Suisam be lucky to kick an extra point,the recievers drop underhand tosses at key times,and they played one of the best teams in football...Start Heyer at least he would have an excuse,sign a kicker,work on catching drills all week for the WR's...

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=Skins4Eva;505790]I dont care if I get banned, so ban me then. Jason Campbell sucks, I said it a long time ago, stop with the excuses please, he is too damn slow, Ive said it and I will say it again. How much time do we give this guy? Im saying it...there needs to be an open competition at QB this offseason. Enough with the blind optimism. There is being a fan and being blinded by emotion. When Portis doesnt hand hold the team and carry the team on his back, Campbell does NOTHING to win a game. Zorns playcalling is basic and predictable. We have zero TRUE recievers. We have two great athletes in Moss and Randle El, but they are not true recievers as far as being route runners, hence they always never seem to be open. Before I get blasted for telling the truth and probably banned, why the hell does everyone on this sight seemingly dissapprove of anyone telling the truth as opposed to blind optimism? Everyone talks of stability, and we have stunk offensively for years. Hell with that, im calling for an overhaul. Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Jansen, Rabach, Randle El, need to go, and Campbell should be given the rest of the year then challenged by Brennan or bring in someone else. Don't even get me started on Jason Taylor. To hell with this boring ass and ineffective offense. I love the Washington Redskins but I absolutely am disgusted with this current collection of players. I will say, atleast the defense played with some heart. Oh yeah, and I also believe i said the Hall signing was good too. I used to love this site but my god, if you say anything against the team you are some how not knowledgeable or a true fan. [B]Playoffs?! Are you kidding?![/B][/quote]

Jim Mora sighting! Playoffs?!?! Whatcha mean playoffs?!?! :screama:

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=A10sROCK;505770]The best teams have used their high draft picks for the OL and DL. We haven't done so in many years........Any question on why our trench play is average at best?[/quote]Our last O-lineman drafted earlier than the third round was Chris Samuels in 2000. [I]The last D-lineman that we drafted earlier than the 5th round was Kenard Lang in 1997[/I]. This is an absolute joke. I don't want another play maker. We have plenty invested in playmakers. We need to get tougher on the interior to compete with the best.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=Drift Reality;505789]I think it is pretty glaring - we don't have the same level of top-tier physical talent in the trenches as the elite NFL teams.[/quote]

You're undoubtedly right... but i don't see that as the reason we lost today. Execution on offense, specifically away from the LOS, was abysmal. The receiving corp playing at an NFL caliber level alone would have kept us in this game, but w/ I believe 5 or 6 good passes dropped and terrible route running we didn't have a chance. Does it strike anyone else bizarre that JC has so few open targets to throw to on passing downs, and against a secondary that is not elite. Again, i'm starting to wonder if there is a serious coaching issue here w/ the WR corp. They drop passes all the time. They run poor routes. They fail to get open consistently.

Very little chance of winning in this predicament. Stan Hixon should be on the hot-seat IMHO. His group is consistently not up to the challenge, regardless of the rookie class who we make excuses for or the vets who continue to drop passes on critical downs.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=The Goat;505798]You're undoubtedly right... but i don't see that as the reason we lost today. Execution on offense, specifically away from the LOS, was abysmal. The receiving corp playing at an NFL caliber level alone would have kept us in this game, but w/ I believe 5 or 6 good passes dropped and terrible route running we didn't have a chance. Does it strike anyone else bizarre that[B] JC has so few open targets to throw to on passing downs, and against a secondary that is not elite.[/B] Again, i'm starting to wonder if there is a serious coaching issue here w/ the WR corp. They drop passes all the time. They run poor routes. They fail to get open consistently.

Very little chance of winning in this predicament. Stan Hixon should be on the hot-seat IMHO. His group is consistently not up to the challenge, regardless of the rookie class who we make excuses for or the vets who continue to drop passes on critical downs.[/quote]

I keep saying that JC locks onto one receiver. If the main receiver on a route is Santana, he's gonna throw to him and damnit, he better be open or else we're going to take a sack.

I'm almost convinced that JC can't read the field and find the open man. I can't figure out if that's just JC as a QB or if he's so damn panicked in the pocket (afraid of his O-Line sucking) that he has no time to look for someone open.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

[quote=The Goat;505798]You're undoubtedly right... but i don't see that as the reason we lost today. Execution on offense, specifically away from the LOS, was abysmal. The receiving corp playing at an NFL caliber level alone would have kept us in this game, but w/ I believe 5 or 6 good passes dropped and terrible route running we didn't have a chance. Does it strike anyone else bizarre that JC has so few open targets to throw to on passing downs, and against a secondary that is not elite. Again, i'm starting to wonder if there is a serious coaching issue here w/ the WR corp. They drop passes all the time. They run poor routes. They fail to get open consistently.

Very little chance of winning in this predicament. Stan Hixon should be on the hot-seat IMHO. His group is consistently not up to the challenge, regardless of the rookie class who we make excuses for or the vets who continue to drop passes on critical downs.[/quote]I think the drops can be attributed to the weather. But it's widely acknowledged that a soft field favors the offense in the NFL, and that was certainly true for the Giants receivers against our DBs. Those sacks that Campbell kept taking were short drops/quick passes where the receivers ran piss poor routes. Moss, Randle El, and Cooley are definately NFL caliber players, but I wish we could rely on EVERY player on the field on every play, but this is simply not a reality for the Redskins. Some players who play on the offense are just unreliable.

Portis also sucked in pass blocking today.

Re: What's Wrong with the Redskins?
 

This team is suffering from a LOT of problems.

[B]The Front Office[/B]

The front office has done a very good job of acquiring talent in the defensive secondary and at the skill positions on offense. Unfortunately, the front office has not acquired young talent along the lines. The defensive line can't get pressure on opposing QBs (Carter and Taylor have combined for just 5 sacks this season). The offensive line can't stop 6 and 5 man blitzes or even 4 man rushes.

What's more, the lines lack depth and are old. True, we have guys like Rob Jackson and Chad Rinehart on the roster, but Rinehart has yet to dress for a single game this season (not great news for a 3rd round pick) and Rob Jackson has to do anything noteworthy. To my knowledge, we don't have a single young backup along the offensive or defensive line who will likely be a starter in a year or two. In short, if everything starts up front, we're in trouble.

[B]The Coaching Staff[/B]

Zorn looks like a promising rookie head coach, but I have three reservations about him. First, our offense has gone from dynamic to predictable and stagnant over the past few weeks. We run, run, throw a 5 yard curl, run, run, throw a 5 yard screen pass and so on. I understand that the running game is our bread and butter and the West Coast offense emphasizes the short and intermediate passing game, but this offense needs to be revamped. We are failing to force opposing defenses to defend the entire field. Until we re-establish our ability to hurt teams deep, our offense is going to struggle.

My second problem with the offensive playcalling is that it does not appear to make adjustments based on the time left on the clock or the scoreboard. I don't get the feeling that our offense senses any urgency when we're down by a few scores in the 4th quarter. I thought as much after our week 1 loss to the Giants and I feel the same way today.

Finally, the players bear a lot of responsibility for missed tackles, blown blocking assignments, etc., but so does the coaching staff. The players' "football fundamentals" look suspect. Receivers (i.e., the guys who catch footballs) are dropping balls they shouldn't drop. Defensive players (i.e., the guys who tackle other guys) are failing to wrap up and bring guys to the ground. Say what you want about Gibbs' offensive playcalling, but, his players' football fundamentals were solid. I can't say the same for our current team's football fundamentals.