Zorn-o-meter
 

With the 3rd quarter done, I still am at a 3 with JZ, it was a brutal quarter no doubt, but, he did no worse than the rest of the coaches this decade. I hope over this final quarter we see alot of maturation from JZ and his offense. Still he is keeping his head above water and so that is a good thing.

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I am still at a 4 or 5 with Zorn. I think he's a breath of fresh air (especially compared to his predecessor) and a great young (as in he can stay here awhile and build a team) coach. I think he's stuck with players that just cant do what he wants the offense to do. IMO hiring JZ as head coach is the best move DS & Co. have made.

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[quote=irish;507435]I am still at a 4 or 5 with Zorn. I think he's a breath of fresh air (especially compared to his predecessor) and a great young (as in he can stay here awhile and build a team) coach. I think he's stuck with players that just cant do what he wants the offense to do. IMO hiring JZ as head coach is the best move DS & Co. have made.[/quote]

Wow. A (mostly) positive post from irish - Has any one checked hell to see if the demons are ice-fishing??

7-5, beating Philly and Dallas in their backyards in his first year? Even with the brutal third quarter, he is still a 4 in my book.

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I like what Jim Zorn is doing with the Redskins.....I hope the FO allows him to stick around for a while and really develop this team to their potential

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4 . . . seems the team is starting to come un-done alil due to the losing streak (atleast the media makes it out that way with "JC sensitive to criticism" comments all week on radio, zorn calling out players, etc) so if zorn cant get the players back on track (win or lose, winning cures all thoo) he might slip to a 3 in my book. should be interesting to see if zorn can re-capture whatever focus the players have lost in this last important stretch run.

go skinss!!

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he's not done much...basically we are running the same stuff we ran under gibbs. Portis seems to prefer it, but the passing game has stalled. I'm def. not horny for zorny, but i'm not over him either. Let's give him a couple more years (and Jason).

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[quote=BrunellMVP?;507441]he's not done much...basically we are running the same stuff we ran under gibbs. Portis seems to prefer it, but the passing game has stalled. I'm def. not horny for zorny, but i'm not over him either. Let's give him a couple more years (and Jason).[/quote]
i was under the impression Portis did not like Joe Gibbs stye of offense because Portis was forced to pound the rock all the time. i believe he said in an interview "that style of running takes years off his shelf life"

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The running game isn't classic Joe Gibbs, it's more of a hybrid of Gibbs/Saunders now with much more stretch plays and zone blocking schemes, and I'm sure there has been some minor tweaks and twists added by Zorn, Smith, and Mitchell. When was the last time you saw a counter this year? I haven't seen it.

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I'm still at a 5, and here's why: With the personal attention that he's giving Campbell, we will know by next year whether Campbell is trending toward becoming an elite QB, or a journeyman. The scheme certainly hasn't appeared to be the problem to me. O linemen getting beaten, WRs dropping 1st downs, and Jason occasionally making a poor throw are what's holding the offense back. I believe that we're a lot closer to turning the corner than it would appear, but IMO, it all starts up front with the O-line. Once they become more consistent, I'm optimistic that Zorn's offense will start humming.

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I'll go 3.5 on Zorn. He's good with Campbell, which is a huge plus. The team fights for him and respects him. I think he's a tremendous playcaller too.

Couple things I really don't understand though:

- Why aren't we using Randy Thomas on pull blocks to get him out in space? This was our best running play under Gibbs. It's not like Thomas is suddenly slow, he hurt his triceps last year, not his legs.

- Why have Cooley and Sellers practically disappeared as red zone targets? They're our two best red zone passing options, by far.

- How can our special teams coverage units be so lousy? We lost Torrence which hurt, but that's not the whole reason. Gibbs always had a strong committment to personally ensuring these units were performing well. I don't think Zorn is paying enough attention here, and for good reason, he can't. He's too busy coaching up Campbell. But he's got to get on top of these units somehow.

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Zorn did try to hit Sellers on that playaction flip in Seattle, and he dropped it. But yeah I'm surprised we haven't seen more of that. It was such a money play in 2005.

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[quote=BrunellMVP?;507441]he's not done much...basically we are running the same stuff we ran under gibbs. Portis seems to prefer it, but the passing game has stalled. I'm def. not horny for zorny, but i'm not over him either. Let's give him a couple more years (and Jason).[/quote]

That's what I mean by JZ being hamstrung by the talent. His QB & WRs just wont let him do what he really wants to do with the O. Portis is a different story. He has been very good considering the load he's had to carry. I wonder how much will be left of CP after this season and the pounding he's had to take.

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Was a 4 but now I'm bumping him down to a 3. Is it me or does it seem like we never make any adjustments? If we can't score then try to change things up. JC seems to run the no huddle pretty well so why not try that? Plus with Davis and Thomas giving us nothing, some of that has to fall on the coach or the coaches. If we're in the red zone Davis should be on the field. Makes no sense.

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[quote=skinsfan69;507465]Was a 4 but now I'm bumping him down to a 3. Is it me or does it seem like we never make any adjustments? If we can't score then try to change things up. JC seems to run the no huddle pretty well so why not try that? Plus with Davis and Thomas giving us nothing, some of that has to fall on the coach or the coaches. [B]If we're in the red zone Davis should be on the field.[/B] Makes no sense.[/quote]

They still say he can't digest the playbook.

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[quote=DynamiteRave;507468]They still say he can't digest the playbook.[/quote]

So what, he's retarded or something?

How hard can it be?

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[quote=SouperMeister;507444]I'm still at a 5, and here's why: With the personal attention that he's giving Campbell, we will know by next year whether Campbell is trending toward becoming an elite QB, or a journeyman. The scheme certainly hasn't appeared to be the problem to me. O linemen getting beaten, WRs dropping 1st downs, and Jason occasionally making a poor throw are what's holding the offense back. I believe that we're a lot closer to turning the corner than it would appear, but IMO, it all starts up front with the O-line. Once they become more consistent, I'm optimistic that Zorn's offense will start humming.[/quote]

With all that close attention he is giving JC I would think he would be getting better not going backwards. Besides the game against the Giants we have not had a bunch of dropped passes. The evidence is the lack of any threads or post talking about dropped passes until this week. I now give Zorn a # which is down from a 4 because he is getting out coached and it seems that he does not adjust well when things are not working. I still like Zorn but he is also learning so it will take some time for him to adjust in his new role.

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[quote=Schneed10;507471]So what, he's retarded or something?

How hard can it be?[/quote]

I'd hope not.

But that's the excuse they keep giving for keeping him inactive from week to week. I figure the least they can do is activate him and let him run a couple of plays per game. What's the worse that can happen? JC stays either horizontal or running away from defenders most of the game anyway and the only two players with consistent hands are Moss and Cooley. I don't think it could hurt to give Davis a few reps.

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Overall my Zorn Meter

Energy--8. He is no geriatric man. This isn't a shuffleboard team Im glad we are more relateable to guys in the first 1/4 century of their lives.

Tutorage--8 Thats a sliding scale with JC looking like he is relapsing. But JC has HEARD alot of new instruction. Can a new dog learn new tricks???? Plan B for Brenanan in the works and hopefully Plan C for Collins will be done after this year and we can find somebody worthwhile.

Knowledge--7. I think he gets lost in the hypothetical or philosphy too much but honestly, only behind closed doors will that be shown. But at the QB position he is known, how to run an offense is different from running a huddle. His playcalling deserves a potent Coordinator and is Sherman the guy or just a friend. It didn't work out for Billick/Fassel

Final Product---3 By week 12 with our starting QB playing everygame this is a lateral season progressing no where. Lack of WR is obvious but sending Sellers out wide for patterns is a travesty. Never capitalizing with spreading the field lining up 4-5 wide except when we are trailing or last drive of the game really defeats the purpose.

Overall liking him personally, though we never met, probably keeps him here another season AT LEAST from a fan/ player perspective.

[QUOTE=irish;507452] I wonder how much will be left of CP after this season and the pounding he's had to take.[/QUOTE]

He knows he's loved here. He is getting a Phat paycheck. I just hope his interest in US stays the same. We need him to like the system. If we really cared about him taking a pounding we would dump BETTS and find a replacement. If Betts isn't taking KR/PR than we can find a guy who can and spell for CP. Since every team knows we won't or can't throw the ball on their top 3 CB's they stack the box it has to be hard on CP. Thats why he made those comments earlier this year.

[QUOTE=charlielyons;507438]I like what Jim Zorn is doing with the Redskins.....I hope the FO allows him to stick around for a while and really develop this team to their potential[/QUOTE]

Consistency is STEP #1. Our impatience causes us to work backwards way too much. I like that he is very personable. He enjoys his life and can be seen sporting a smile on every day BUT game day. Things could be worse, lets not overlooked that. I hate to relive/rethink Saunders but it seemed in both of their first years Saunders' seemed slightly more productive with passing yards and thats all we need. We need 300+yd passing a game and everythig else will fall into place with that. I just worry that Zorn doesn't have a phonebook size playbook, maybe just a 12 page playbook and the last few pages are Steve Largent caricatures.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;507443] When was the last time you saw a counter this year? I haven't seen it.[/QUOTE]

I saw one I think in Steelers or Dallas game and it looked like a surfer getting engulfed in a killer wave. 3 yard loss. It looks like our guys lost a step to run our sweet sweet counter trey.

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[quote=JoeRedskin;507436]Wow. A (mostly) positive post from irish - Has any one checked hell to see if the demons are ice-fishing??

7-5, beating Philly and Dallas in their backyards in his first year? Even with the brutal third quarter, he is still a 4 in my book.[/quote]

While it was somewhat stunning to hear a....not generally negative appraisal of Zorn, "The I" did not miss the oppurtunity to twist the knife in Joe2's back...........

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I'm down to a 3 on the Zorn-O-Meter.

Please get me back to a 5, Jay Z!

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[quote=Hog1;507479]While it was somewhat stunning to hear a....not generally negative appraisal of Zorn, "The I" did not miss the oppurtunity to twist the knife in Joe2's back...........[/quote]

I dont think I have ever posted a neg thing about Zorn. I thought it was a great hire from the beginning.

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3. The offense has digressed. Opposing teams have figured out Zorn's attack and he is making very few adjustments. Too many passing plays that go sideways. Rely too heavy on Portis. As Portis goes, so goes the Redskins. Zorn needs to use his passing threats more. I point of emphasis should be to get Santana Moss going early. Use Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly and Fred Davis. What the hell did we draft these guys for, blocking downfield, running end reverses and special teams. Throw them the damned ball!

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[quote=SouperMeister;507444]I'm still at a 5, and here's why: With the personal attention that he's giving Campbell, we will know by next year whether Campbell is trending toward becoming an elite QB, or a journeyman. The scheme certainly hasn't appeared to be the problem to me. O linemen getting beaten, WRs dropping 1st downs, and Jason occasionally making a poor throw are what's holding the offense back. I believe that we're a lot closer to turning the corner than it would appear, but IMO, it all starts up front with the O-line. Once they become more consistent, I'm optimistic that Zorn's offense will start humming.[/quote]

Fantastic analysis IMO - i've tried to explain before I have total faith in the QB situation (if not JC) because of who is heading this ship.

Overall I give Zorn a 4. While poor execution along the line and among our WR corp has killed us and those position coaches need to put the hammer down (Hixon should be gone IMHO) Zorn still has the ultimate responsibility to "discipline the generals [B]and[/B] the troops."

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[quote=DynamiteRave;507468]They still say he can't digest the playbook.[/quote]
I don't know if thats the whole truth. You don't need the whole play book to use him on a few plays here and there. All they have to do is while on the side lines tell him this play you run ten yards and turn left and the ball will be on its way. Heck, I have heard of QB's making up a play in the huddle because they saw something that would work. I'm sure thats not done very often in todays NFL but it not rock science.

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[quote=firstdown;507505]I'm sure thats not done very often in todays NFL but it not rock science.[/quote]Geology?

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[quote=Hog1;507479]While it was somewhat stunning to hear a....not generally negative appraisal of Zorn, [B]"The I" did not miss the oppurtunity to twist the knife in Joe2's back[/B]...........[/quote]

Yes, I got that too. In the spirit of site detente', however, I chose to ignore it.

Quite frankly, and IMHO, without Joe Gibbs, there is no Jim Zorn. But that is a whole other thread.

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[quote=DynamiteRave;507468]They still say he can't digest the playbook.[/quote]

I'm sorry but that BS. This guy was a stud at USC and they run an offense that is as close to a pro offense as it gets. I'm blaming the coaches as much as I'm blaming Davis. I'm sure he can remember 5 red zone plays.

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[quote=irish;507498]I dont think I have ever posted a neg thing about Zorn. I thought it was a great hire from the beginning.[/quote]
I know you just call em' like you see um...Irish.
..............site detente'........?? Joe, that is awesome

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[quote=The Goat;507504]Fantastic analysis IMO - i've tried to explain before I have total faith in the QB situation (if not JC) because of who is heading this ship.

Overall I give Zorn a 4. While poor execution along the line and among our WR corp has killed us and those position coaches need to put the hammer down (Hixon should be gone IMHO) Zorn still has the ultimate responsibility to "discipline the generals [B]and[/B] the troops."[/quote]

I agree. With Zorn, even when we've not played well, I continue to feel as though we're close and our best days are ahead. I haven't felt that way consistently through a season in a long, long time.

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[quote=skinsfan69;507544]I'm sorry but that BS. This guy was a stud at USC and they run an offense that is as close to a pro offense as it gets. I'm blaming the coaches as much as I'm blaming Davis. I'm sure he can remember 5 red zone plays.[/quote]

Or, if he can't. he never will. With 5 preseason games (plus 11 regular season = 16 games), minicamp, etc., these guys have all had Zorn's playbook since June. No excuse for not knowing it. Now I grant that there can be a difference between knowing the plays and having them become second nature so that you don't need to think about them -- you execute. But they've had the playbook for 6 months now and this is what they do for a living!! Anyone out there have a job where 6 months of intense study and practice and poor execution would be tolerated?

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[quote=skinsfan69;507544]I'm sorry but that BS. This guy was a stud at USC and they run an offense that is as close to a pro offense as it gets. I'm [B]blaming the coaches as much as I'm blaming Davis[/B]. I'm sure he can remember 5 red zone plays.[/quote]

Some people like to point fingers towards each other but I'm putting this one on GOD. Its all his fault for not blessing him with the talent.

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[quote=firstdown;507505]I don't know if thats the whole truth. You don't need the whole play book to use him on a few plays here and there. All they have to do is while on the side lines tell him this play you run ten yards and turn left and the ball will be on its way. Heck, I have heard of QB's making up a play in the huddle because they saw something that would work. I'm sure thats not done very often in todays NFL but it not rock science.[/quote]

He should at least be able to learn and execute a handful of plays. Like you said firstdown, it's not rock science. Hell, for that matter, it's not even rocket science!

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[quote=BrunellMVP?;507441]he's not done much...basically we are running the same stuff we ran under gibbs. Portis seems to prefer it, but the passing game has stalled. I'm def. not horny for zorny, but i'm not over him either. Let's give him a couple more years (and Jason).[/quote]


I agree with you about keeping Zorn, but If JC falters again in the '09 campaign I am not sure Snyder resigns him. After '09 JC will have had about the same time as a starter as Frerotte and more than Ramsey. Frerotte didn't have the quality team around him as JC now does thus, couldn't get the job done, and he wasn't the greatest QB either, but we did score more. Ramsey was just slaughtered by Spurrier and his dumb idea of trying to bring in a college gameplan to the pros. To be honest I think Gibbs should have given him at least a few more games to see how he would have turned out. Anyway, if JC is average next season and asks for a raise do you really think Snyder is going to gamble having an average QB be his starter for the next 2-4 seasons? I like JC, but his output thus far doesn't warrant a new contract, unless he improves immensely in '09.

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[quote=53Fan;507607]He should at least be able to learn and execute a handful of plays. Like you said firstdown, it's not rock science. Hell, for that matter, it's not even rocket science![/quote]

Well I've thought back more often about Davis' retarded episode of missing practice [B]as a rookie because he slept in or whatever.[/B] For all we know this kid has all the talent in the world but is also high in the runnin' for laziest worldwide. Pretty hard to say at this point.

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[quote=The Goat;507643]Well I've thought back more often about Davis' retarded episode of missing practice [B]as a rookie because he slept in or whatever.[/B] For all we know this kid has all the talent in the world but is also high in the runnin' for laziest worldwide. Pretty hard to say at this point.[/quote]

He missed one practice and he rides the bench for most of the season? Talk about being overbearing. If that was the case the Skins could be benching a good TE because he made one poor decision.

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I'm still at a 6.5 with this guy. I actually would give him an eight but with a couple of bad losses and with me really wanting Cowher last year im a little impartial. But i give him more props then i thought he would do worse then what he did.