For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

I just want to point out what some may have briefly touched on at some point, but I think it is extremely necessary to point out three NFL teams (one in particular) and three QBs that spin the Zorn/Campbell excuses around...

1) Atlanta Falcons - Rookie Head Coach, ROOKIE QB - 4-12 last year, 9-5 this year
* First time DEFENSIVE background head coach, ROOKIE QB on a team that was 4-12 last year.
* 5-2 over last 7 games... improving
* Points For - 336 Points Against - 281
* Learning curve really has that drastic effect on an offense/QB??

2) Baltimore Ravens - Rookie HC, Rookie QB - 5-11 last year, 9-5 this year
* Again, First time SPECIAL TEAMS background HC, ROOKIE QB.
* 7-2 over last 9 games... improving
* PF - 325 PA - 213
* You can talk about their defense, but that offense with rookie Flacco, much weaker RB crew and basically same talent at receiver/tight end as Skins still = 325 points to our 231.

3) Miami Dolphins - Rookie HC, QB Signed JUST before season - 1-15 last year, 9-5 this year
* Again, First time HC, QB in brand new system, weak receiving depth on a team that was 1-15 LAST YEAR!!
* 7-1 over last 8! (talk about improvement!)
* PF - 283 PA - 269

4) Washington Redskins - Rookie HC, returning QB in new PASSING system (same running) - 9-7 last year, 7-7 this year
* 1-5 over last 6 games... improving??
* 2-2 vs Rams, Lions, Seahawks, Bengals with a point diff. of +2!!!!
* PF - 231 PA - 266

5) Aaron Rogers, Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler - All QB's same age/experience as Campbell (or less) outplaying (by far) Campbell.

Basically, this information tells you that you'd be crazy to say that the blame for this season is not Zorn or Campbell (or both). We have a better defense than Falcons & Dolphins (with more experience), much better offensive weapons than the Ravens, and are the only team with the same running system as last year with a stud RB. The excuses about Campbell being "young" and needing to "learn" is a huge load of BS... and Zorn's sole responsibility this year has been Campbell and the passing offense which happens to be the absolute worst facet of the team... anyone??

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;512153]I just want to point out what some may have briefly touched on at some point, but I think it is extremely necessary to point out three NFL teams (one in particular) and three QBs that spin the Zorn/Campbell excuses around...

1) Atlanta Falcons - Rookie Head Coach, ROOKIE QB - 4-12 last year, 9-5 this year
* First time DEFENSIVE background head coach, ROOKIE QB on a team that was 4-12 last year.
* 5-2 over last 7 games... improving
* Points For - 336 Points Against - 281
* Learning curve really has that drastic effect on an offense/QB??

2) Baltimore Ravens - Rookie HC, Rookie QB - 5-11 last year, 9-5 this year
* Again, First time SPECIAL TEAMS background HC, ROOKIE QB.
* 7-2 over last 9 games... improving
* PF - 325 PA - 213
* You can talk about their defense, but that offense with rookie Flacco, much weaker RB crew and basically same talent at receiver/tight end as Skins still = 325 points to our 231.

3) Miami Dolphins - Rookie HC, QB Signed JUST before season - 1-15 last year, 9-5 this year
* Again, First time HC, QB in brand new system, weak receiving depth on a team that was 1-15 LAST YEAR!!
* 7-1 over last 8! (talk about improvement!)
* PF - 283 PA - 269

4) Washington Redskins - Rookie HC, returning QB in new PASSING system (same running) - 9-7 last year, 7-7 this year
* 1-5 over last 6 games... improving??
* 2-2 vs Rams, Lions, Seahawks, Bengals with a point diff. of +2!!!!
* PF - 231 PA - 266

5) Aaron Rogers, Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler - All QB's same age/experience as Campbell (or less) outplaying (by far) Campbell.

Basically, this information tells you that you'd be crazy to say that the blame for this season is not Zorn or Campbell (or both). We have a better defense than Falcons & Dolphins (with more experience), much better offensive weapons than the Ravens, and are the only team with the same running system as last year with a stud RB. The excuses about Campbell being "young" and needing to "learn" is a huge load of BS... and Zorn's sole responsibility this year has been Campbell and the passing offense which happens to be the absolute worst facet of the team... anyone??[/quote]
Good post! I think these are all extremely valid points.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;512153]I just want to point out what some may have briefly touched on at some point, but I think it is extremely necessary to point out three NFL teams (one in particular) and three QBs that spin the Zorn/Campbell excuses around...

1) Atlanta Falcons - Rookie Head Coach, ROOKIE QB - 4-12 last year, 9-5 this year
* First time DEFENSIVE background head coach, ROOKIE QB on a team that was 4-12 last year.
* 5-2 over last 7 games... improving
* Points For - 336 Points Against - 281
* Learning curve really has that drastic effect on an offense/QB??

2) Baltimore Ravens - Rookie HC, Rookie QB - 5-11 last year, 9-5 this year
* Again, First time SPECIAL TEAMS background HC, ROOKIE QB.
* 7-2 over last 9 games... improving
* PF - 325 PA - 213
* You can talk about their defense, but that offense with rookie Flacco, much weaker RB crew and basically same talent at receiver/tight end as Skins still = 325 points to our 231.

3) Miami Dolphins - Rookie HC, QB Signed JUST before season - 1-15 last year, 9-5 this year
* Again, First time HC, QB in brand new system, weak receiving depth on a team that was 1-15 LAST YEAR!!
* 7-1 over last 8! (talk about improvement!)
* PF - 283 PA - 269

4) Washington Redskins - Rookie HC, returning QB in new PASSING system (same running) - 9-7 last year, 7-7 this year
* 1-5 over last 6 games... improving??
* 2-2 vs Rams, Lions, Seahawks, Bengals with a point diff. of +2!!!!
* PF - 231 PA - 266

5) Aaron Rogers, Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler - All QB's same age/experience as Campbell (or less) outplaying (by far) Campbell.

Basically, this information tells you that you'd be crazy to say that the blame for this season is not Zorn or Campbell (or both). We have a better defense than Falcons & Dolphins (with more experience), much better offensive weapons than the Ravens, and are the only team with the same running system as last year with a stud RB. The excuses about Campbell being "young" and needing to "learn" is a huge load of BS... and Zorn's sole responsibility this year has been Campbell and the passing offense which happens to be the absolute worst facet of the team... anyone??[/quote]

So who should we get for QB then? I think Cassell would be the only option right now, otherwise you go into rebuilding mode and throw Colt Brennan into the fire.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

Thanks...

I was also trying to bust the whole "tough part of the schedule" or "look at those team's schedules" excuses by providing the mind-numbing numbers of

2-2 versus Rams, Lions, Seahawks, and Bengals who are a combined 5-47-1 (HOLY CRAP that's more terrible than I realized!) outside of the games against the Skins with us winning the point differential by a whopping +2 ... obviously strength of schedule is not an excuse either...

Also... who at QB? Farve for a 3rd rounder sounds not so bad now especially considering we gave up a 2nd for JTaylor, but that wasn;t the answer either...

I am just saying that Campbell is NOT in the same class as the guys his same age and if that blame falls on Zorn, OK, but after what year will Campbell not be a "young QB" who "needs to continue learning" anymore?

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

I don't think you're going to find many who argue Zorn isn't way over his head at this point. As I said in another thread it won't be a surprise to me if he finds a new home of his own accord (w/o any meddling from Danny). Zorn is utterly overwhelmed and if he has any sense he knows he is outmatched against just about every HC/defensive coordinator he'll face at this level.

I believe we are just experiencing a little calm before the storm here... things will get much more interesting around Redskins park.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;512153]I just want to point out what some may have briefly touched on at some point, but I think it is extremely necessary to point out three NFL teams (one in particular) and three QBs that spin the Zorn/Campbell excuses around...

1) Atlanta Falcons - Rookie Head Coach, ROOKIE QB - 4-12 last year, 9-5 this year
* First time DEFENSIVE background head coach, ROOKIE QB on a team that was 4-12 last year.
* 5-2 over last 7 games... improving
* Points For - 336 Points Against - 281
* Learning curve really has that drastic effect on an offense/QB??

2) Baltimore Ravens - Rookie HC, Rookie QB - 5-11 last year, 9-5 this year
* Again, First time SPECIAL TEAMS background HC, ROOKIE QB.
* 7-2 over last 9 games... improving
* PF - 325 PA - 213
* You can talk about their defense, but that offense with rookie Flacco, much weaker RB crew and basically same talent at receiver/tight end as Skins still = 325 points to our 231.

3) Miami Dolphins - Rookie HC, QB Signed JUST before season - 1-15 last year, 9-5 this year
* Again, First time HC, QB in brand new system, weak receiving depth on a team that was 1-15 LAST YEAR!!
* 7-1 over last 8! (talk about improvement!)
* PF - 283 PA - 269

4) Washington Redskins - Rookie HC, returning QB in new PASSING system (same running) - 9-7 last year, 7-7 this year
* 1-5 over last 6 games... improving??
* 2-2 vs Rams, Lions, Seahawks, Bengals with a point diff. of +2!!!!
* PF - 231 PA - 266

5) Aaron Rogers, Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler - All QB's same age/experience as Campbell (or less) outplaying (by far) Campbell.

Basically, this information tells you that you'd be crazy to say that the blame for this season is not Zorn or Campbell (or both). We have a better defense than Falcons & Dolphins (with more experience), much better offensive weapons than the Ravens, and are the only team with the same running system as last year with a stud RB. The excuses about Campbell being "young" and needing to "learn" is a huge load of BS... and Zorn's sole responsibility this year has been Campbell and the passing offense which happens to be the absolute worst facet of the team... anyone??[/quote]


Hey bro, compare the offensive coordinators and QB coaches they have a bigger impact on the offense then the HC.
The only thing this information shows is that you don't know what you're talking about. And like comparing apples and oranges and potatoes.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=30gut;512160]Hey bro, compare the offensive coordinators and QB coaches they have a bigger impact on the offense then the HC.
The only thing this information shows is that you don't know what you're talking about. And like comparing apples and oranges and potatoes.[/quote]
Did you forget that Zorn is, essentially, our offensive coordinator and QB coach?

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

ok... give me a minute on that one...

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

JC has underperformed and my confidence in Zorn has been shaken to its core, but our problems go WAY beyond two people.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

This is very true (i am huge believer that a team is as good as it's O & D-Lines)... but I'm just saying the excuses for these 2 are really unjustified...

and hey.. name the personnel that has changed from last year's 9-7 playoff team... Head Coach, OC.... and look at what part of our team is worse than last year...

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

I don't think we needed a new thread to show that the Ravens, Dolphins, and Falcons are all better than we are this year.

Also, good job showing ignorance of our new running schemes, which were the key to our early 6-2 success, IMO.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

In his first year with the Falcons, Jim Mora: 11-5 and the playoffs. M. Vick's first full year as starter.

Next two years? 15-17

Vermeil's first two years with the Rams: 9-23. Third year: 13-3, Win the Super Bowl.

First year coaches? You can't always tell.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

When it relates to all the Zorn/Campbell arguments on here? I think so...

Just trying to provide insight on not that they are better this year, but just think about comparing these 3 teams after last season ended...

We are the only one that carried over the heavy majority of our starters...

Just adding my perspective of the excuses I am tired of hearing...

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=30gut;512160]Hey bro, compare the offensive coordinators and QB coaches they have a bigger impact on the offense then the HC.
The only thing this information shows is that you don't know what you're talking about. And like comparing apples and oranges and potatoes.[/quote]

I agree!
In my opinion our Offensive line is the reason why we aren't successful

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512168]I don't think we needed a new thread to show that the Ravens, Dolphins, and Falcons are all better than we are this year.

[B]Also, good job showing ignorance of our new running schemes, which were the key to our early 6-2 success[/B], IMO.[/quote]


Wow... have you not been paying attention this year at all?? I think on a weekly basis it is made fact that our running scheme was COMPLETELY unchanged from last year!! Ignorance?? Really??

You are right about one thing ... THAT running game, which Zorn had nothing to do with (other than deciding NOT to change it), has been the reason we have won at all this year

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=30gut;512160]Hey bro, compare the offensive coordinators and QB coaches they have a bigger impact on the offense then the HC.
The only thing this information shows is that you don't know what you're talking about. And like comparing apples and oranges and potatoes.[/quote]

Talk about not knowing what you are talking about... way to respond intelligently witha facts and reasoning..

Do you even know who our QB COACH IS???? it's one Jim Zorn!!!!

Our O-Coordinator?? I'll tell you... he is Zorn's best offensive buddy, Sherman Smith, who he HAND-PICKED BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE SAME OFFENSIVE PHILOSPHY!

Who calls the plays... wait.. you have to know this one right?? um, yup, that would be Zorn...

So you are basically implying that those teams have far superior OCs? Right? Well then you are just validating my point that Zorn needs no more excuses.. he just doesn't match up!!

But hey, good post... you obviously know what YOU are talking about

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;512173]Wow... have you not been paying attention this year at all?? I think on a weekly basis it is made fact that our running scheme was COMPLETELY unchanged from last year!! Ignorance?? Really??

You are right about one thing ... THAT running game, which Zorn had nothing to do with (other than deciding NOT to change it), has been the reason we have won at all this year[/quote]Except that 70% of our runs are zone scheme, compared to 0% last year.

But what kind of a change is that?

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;512175]Except that 70% of our runs are zone scheme, compared to 0% last year.

But what kind of a change is that?[/quote]

It's a change not coming from Zorn-Smith. It has been established that the running scheme hasn't been touched by the newbies. How the line blocks comes directly from Bugel...

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;512163]Talk about not knowing what you are talking about... way to respond intelligently witha facts and reasoning..

Do you even know who our QB COACH IS???? it's one Jim Zorn!!!!

Our O-Coordinator?? I'll tell you... he is Zorn's best offensive buddy, Sherman Smith, who he HAND-PICKED BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE SAME OFFENSIVE PHILOSPHY!

Who calls the plays... wait.. you have to know this one right?? um, yup, that would be Zorn...

So you are basically implying that those teams have far superior OCs? Right? Well then you are just validating my point that Zorn needs no more excuses.. he just doesn't match up!!

But hey, good post... you obviously know what YOU are talking about[/quote]

You made my point for me.

Zorn is doing too much. He's basically the HC/QB coach/OC. All those other coaches had time to put together a staff of their choosing a luxury Zorn wasn't afforded. Where was Zorn supposed to find a veteran WCO OC and QB coach last minute?

Zorn is wearing three hats and all things considered is doing a decent job on a Redskins team most people wrote off at the start of the season.


At the start of the season the offense was good right?

JC has improved right?

Maybe the offense would still be effective if Zorn had at least 1 other coach to help with the in-game adjustments and weekly gameplanning/play design?

How about you realize how much Zorn has accomplished and give him another year?

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

Best excuse for Zorn this far... too much going on (installing passing offense, QB development, play calling, etc. on TOP of HC duties...) ... but ... what does he do as HC? Blache completely runs the D, he has Sherman Smith and Meidt there with him to install offense and has a BUNCH of experienced players on offense who will tell you that that a new offense to them is not THAT huge a deal (aka Atlanta, Baltimore, & Miami outscoring us by far)

Maybe you are right, though, seriously... good post... that what I started this post for... logical, factual responses... not people going on the attack with no real logical, factual argument why

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;512176]It's a change not coming from Zorn-Smith. It has been established that the running scheme hasn't been touched by the newbies. How the line blocks comes directly from Bugel...[/quote]Well, then Bugel changed it. Because it's different.

I don't see why Bugel would all of a sudden change up a blocking scheme, and maybe he was being forced to use man blocking schemes under Gibbs, but Zorn comes in and we start using blocking schemes more commonly used in the WCO anyway.

I don't know why this is surprising. Coach comes in, puts in some new running plays we didn't have before, media doesn't notice. Seems fairly standard to me.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

To be honest, I think these kind of threads are dumb as shit and serve no purpose other than to be even MORE negative. By this reasoning Andy Reid, Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs#1 and many, MANY other coaches should have been fired their first year because they did'nt have winning records either. This kind of blanket thinking is ignorance at its best.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

Perhaps the 30% of man blocking plays are simply pulled straight from the Gibbs' playbook? Maybe that portion of the running game is literally unchanged.

Those blocking schemes have been pretty ineffective this year.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

I want to take exception to one part of the logic here. This argumentation here lays the blame on the offense and says nothing about the defense

Before anyone jumps up and down and screams about the Skins being a "Top 10 defense" this year, understand that stats like that provide comfort only to losing teams. Any team that is 10-4 now and comfortably in the playoffs, is not looking at - nor does it care - where it ranks on total defense.

In [B]THREE[/B] games this year (Cowboys, Ravens, Bengals) the Skins were in position to win/tie the game in the 4th quarter and the opposition took possession of the ball in the opposition's end of the field. What was needed was a "three-and-out"; the Skins could even have lived with giving up a first down and then forcing a punt. But [B]NO...[/B]

In all three games, the opposition offense took the ball and ran off between 12 and 15 plays and ate up most of the clock - - and in the Bengals and Ravens game they scored at the end of that big drive. [Can't recall what happened at the end of the 4th quarter Cowboys' drive when Barber carried the ball about a zillion times in a row.]

The defense - players and coaches but mostly the players - had the ball run down their throats or they gave up a pass over the middle and didn't make a tackle on third and long to allow those drives to continue - - and continue - - and continue.

"Top 10 defenses" make things happen when it really matters; and what they make happen is not allowing a drive to consume 7 minutes of the fourth quarter and end in a score for the other guys.

Oh, by the way, the same Skins defense has been [B]so[/B] good in first quarters recently that in the last three games the Skins have been outscored in the first quarter [B]38-0[/B]. That means the defense has given up [B]six scores in the first quarter[/B] of the last three games. That STINKS!

In the second and third quarters, they don't allow a lot of yards; that's what keeps them in the "Top 10". Whoop - de - damned - dooo!

When it matters - - at the beginning of the game when it is 0-0 on the scorebard and in the fourth quarter when they need a STOP - - the defense has not done the job. You can fawn all over the players and vote for them to go to the Pro Bowl and sniff their jocks, but they haven't gotten the job done when it mattered this season. Deal with it!

Jason Campbell, Clinton Portis - - name your favorite Redskins' offensive player from the past - - can't do a whole lot when they spend half of the fourth quarter sitting on their asses on the sidelines waiting to get the ball. When it matters, this defensive unit has not delivered the goods.

Coaches to blame? Somewhat. Players to blame? More than coaching. The roster of the team itself to blame? Somewhat.

There needs to be a major overhaul to this roster. Of course, that was needed last year too and the overhaul that happened was that the Skins kept all of their draft picks on the roster even though only one of them can play right now. That's not a positive step. And that should give fans the biggest pause...

The roster needs an overhaul - - but do the people in charge of assembling the roster actually know what it needed here and where to look to find pieces to the puzzle to make it better? Recent evidence does not suggest that they do...

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;512153]
4) Washington Redskins - Rookie HC, returning QB in new PASSING system (same running) - 9-7 last year, 7-7 this year
* 1-5 over last 6 games... improving??
* 2-2 vs Rams, Lions, Seahawks, Bengals with a point diff. of +2!!!!
* PF - 231 PA - 266

5) Aaron Rogers, Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler - All QB's same age/experience as Campbell (or less) outplaying (by far) Campbell.

Basically, this information tells you that you'd be crazy to say that the blame for this season is not Zorn or Campbell (or both). We have a better defense than Falcons & Dolphins (with more experience), much better offensive weapons than the Ravens, and are the only team with the same running system as last year with a stud RB. The excuses about Campbell being "young" and needing to "learn" is a huge load of BS... and Zorn's sole responsibility this year has been Campbell and the passing offense which happens to be the absolute worst facet of the team... anyone??[/quote]

There is so much wrong with this portion of your post its not even worth it....

Aaron Rodger has a losing record so should he and McCarthy take the 'blame' for GB's season?

Rodgers/Cassel/Cutler are in the same system w/ experienced HC/OC/QB coaches.

Its argueable if we have better 'weapons' then the Ravens, but do we have a better offensive line?

Zorn's sole responsibility has been Campbell and the passing offense? 1) Hasn't Campbell improved? Campbell was being considered for league MVP a few weeks ago.
2) A HC doesn't have a 'sole' responsibility he's worried about the whole team.
Also Zorn is installing a new offense from the very first play. All the other teams you mentioned have veteran OC that brought their proven offenses scheme with them; Zorn is installing a new system with a new OC.

Clearly you're comparing apples and grapes here

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

This has everything to do with a team that does not believe in investing in the trenches o line and d line..no Coach can win without protection for the QB and pressure from the other side oof the ball....I think we play soft and scared and we need to model ourselves after teams like Pitt and Baltimore that come to knock you out every game..and they have o lines and d lines ....

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;512184]I want to take exception to one part of the logic here. This argumentation here lays the blame on the offense and says nothing about the defense

Before anyone jumps up and down and screams about the Skins being a "Top 10 defense" this year, understand that stats like that provide comfort only to losing teams. Any team that is 10-4 now and comfortably in the playoffs, is not looking at - nor does it care - where it ranks on total defense.

In [B]THREE[/B] games this year (Cowboys, Ravens, Bengals) the Skins were in position to win/tie the game in the 4th quarter and the opposition took possession of the ball in the opposition's end of the field. What was needed was a "three-and-out"; the Skins could even have lived with giving up a first down and then forcing a punt. But [B]NO...[/B]

In all three games, the opposition offense took the ball and ran off between 12 and 15 plays and ate up most of the clock - - and in the Bengals and Ravens game they scored at the end of that big drive. [Can't recall what happened at the end of the 4th quarter Cowboys' drive when Barber carried the ball about a zillion times in a row.]

The defense - players and coaches but mostly the players - had the ball run down their throats or they gave up a pass over the middle and didn't make a tackle on third and long to allow those drives to continue - - and continue - - and continue.

"Top 10 defenses" make things happen when it really matters; and what they make happen is not allowing a drive to consume 7 minutes of the fourth quarter and end in a score for the other guys.

Oh, by the way, the same Skins defense has been [B]so[/B] good in first quarters recently that in the last three games the Skins have been outscored in the first quarter [B]38-0[/B]. That means the defense has given up [B]six scores in the first quarter[/B] of the last three games. That STINKS!

In the second and third quarters, they don't allow a lot of yards; that's what keeps them in the "Top 10". Whoop - de - damned - dooo!

When it matters - - at the beginning of the game when it is 0-0 on the scorebard and in the fourth quarter when they need a STOP - - the defense has not done the job. You can fawn all over the players and vote for them to go to the Pro Bowl and sniff their jocks, but they haven't gotten the job done when it mattered this season. Deal with it!

Jason Campbell, Clinton Portis - - name your favorite Redskins' offensive player from the past - - can't do a whole lot when they spend half of the fourth quarter sitting on their asses on the sidelines waiting to get the ball. When it matters, this defensive unit has not delivered the goods.

Coaches to blame? Somewhat. Players to blame? More than coaching. The roster of the team itself to blame? Somewhat.

There needs to be a major overhaul to this roster. Of course, that was needed last year too and the overhaul that happened was that the Skins kept all of their draft picks on the roster even though only one of them can play right now. That's not a positive step. And that should give fans the biggest pause...

The roster needs an overhaul - - but do the people in charge of assembling the roster actually know what it needed here and where to look to find pieces to the puzzle to make it better? Recent evidence does not suggest that they do...[/quote]Yeah. There's a bunch of defenses that are CLEARLY cut and dry better than us.

Dallas
Philadelphia
New York Giants
Tennessee
Pittsburgh
Baltimore
Tampa Bay
Minnesota

And after that, you can entertain an argument for the Skins defense, and a bunch of other defenses. But we're closer to the bottom ten-twelve then we are to any of those defenses right now. Because those defenses are single-handedly winning football games, and ours is really hurting in the clutch.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;512180]Best excuse for Zorn this far... too much going on (installing passing offense, QB development, play calling, etc. on TOP of HC duties...) ... but ... what does he do as HC? Blache completely runs the D, he has Sherman Smith and Meidt there with him to install offense and has a BUNCH of experienced players on offense who will tell you that that a new offense to them is not THAT huge a deal (aka Atlanta, Baltimore, & Miami outscoring us by far)

Maybe you are right, though, seriously... good post... that what I started this post for... logical, factual responses... not people going on the attack with no real logical, factual argument why[/quote]

Dude, Sherman Smith came from the Titans where he ran the running game, he is new to the WCO and is a 1st time OC and likely took the job as OC to help out Zorn who was more or less in a lurch without a WCO OC.

Chris Meidt is a 1st year NFL assistant form Div III St.Olaf

you are comparing them to Cam Cameron and Mike Mularkey?
-C'mon bro

I didn't intend my posts as attack, i'm merely just reponding to your post.

Remember you are the one that said:

[quote]Basically, this information tells you that you'd be crazy to say that the blame for this season is not Zorn or Campbell (or both). [/quote]

^^That my friend is an attack, saying that anyone that disagrees with your spurious logic is crazy.

:food-smil
:twocents:

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

Zorn has failed. No question. Will he continue to? Who knows. Campbell played well yesterday. He's one of about 4 redskins who haven't quit. I have a lot of respect for him and he did a good job.

Zorn has lost the team.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

Good post. All those coaches have QBs that can get it done. Zorn doesnt which means he has to adjust his plan to fit what JC can, and more importantly, cant do. Campbell doesnt have it and when Zorn gets a capable QB in there (and a better o line) I think things will improve.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=30gut;512185]There is so much wrong with this portion of your post its not even worth it....

Aaron Rodger has a losing record so should he and McCarthy take the 'blame' for GB's season?

Rodgers/Cassel/Cutler are in the same system w/ experienced HC/OC/QB coaches.

Its argueable if we have better 'weapons' then the Ravens, but do we have a better offensive line?

Zorn's sole responsibility has been Campbell and the passing offense? 1) Hasn't Campbell improved? Campbell was being considered for league MVP a few weeks ago.
2) A HC doesn't have a 'sole' responsibility he's worried about the whole team.
Also Zorn is installing a new offense from the very first play. All the other teams you mentioned have veteran OC that brought their proven offenses scheme with them; Zorn is installing a new system with a new OC.

Clearly you're comparing apples and grapes here[/quote]

Iagree.

Aaron Rodgers team is sitting at at 5-9 and Cutler 8-6(one more win and one less loss then Campbell) Those QBs had an easier schedule and they aren't too much better than Campbell.

Rivers and Brees have outplay Cambpell and most QBs this season and their teams aren't going to the playoffs.

Like I said in another post their are about 4 teams whose QBs played worse then Cambpell this season are on going to the playoffs. Three of those teams only have three lossess or less.

Even with Collins at the helm last season skins still couldn't make it out the first round of the playoffs. The problem with the skins is way deeper than QB.

It takes more than a great/good QB to make the playoffs and win the superbowl.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

All you JC lovers can have him. He is so gone. The only team he will ever start for is Washington. The man has no touch on the ball. Zorn's done as well. The Rams and Cincy give me a flippin brake.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

1. It isn't Zorn or Campbell's' fault that Cooley fumbled on the first drive
2. It isn't Zorn or Campbell's fault that Sellers handed the ball the Bungles at the goal line.
3. It isn't Zorn or Campbell's fault that Smoot can't make a tackle on 3rd and 8 to actually give the Redskins a legit shot at winning.

Firing Zorn would be a panic move... starting over every year isn't how you build a winner.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=redskinsgirl;512212]Iagree.

Aaron Rodgers team is sitting at at 5-9 and Cutler 8-6(one more win and one less loss then Campbell) Those QBs had an easier schedule and they aren't too much better than Campbell.

Rivers and Brees have outplay Cambpell and most QBs this season and their teams aren't going to the playoffs.

Like I said in another post their are about 4 teams whose QBs played worse then Cambpell this season are on going to the playoffs. Three of those teams only have three lossess or less.

Even with Collins at the helm last season skins still couldn't make it out the first round of the playoffs. The problem with the skins is way deeper than QB.

It takes more than a great/good QB to make the playoffs and win the superbowl.[/quote]

Bottom line, teams with 3 losses or less dont have QBs that played worse than JC.

I do agree that the Skins problems are deeper than QB.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;512217]1. It isn't Zorn or Campbell's' fault that Cooley fumbled on the first drive
2. It isn't Zorn or Campbell's fault that Sellers handed the ball the Bungles at the goal line.
3. It isn't Zorn or Campbell's fault that Smoot can't make a tackle on 3rd and 8 to actually give the Redskins a legit shot at winning.

Firing Zorn would be a panic move... starting over every year isn't how you build a winner.[/quote]

The best post I have seen yet. I couldnt agree more.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

If Snyder fires Zorn we are entering Raider/Al Davis territory.... what legit coach is ever going to want to coach here?

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

Oh, comparions. Here's some more then.
Redskins have a better ranked defense, but the lack of a pass rush(21 sacks) and a recent propensity to giving up big plays does not make it top tier. Falcons protect their rookie very well(14 sacks given up) and are a little better in getting to the QB(28 sacks). Flacco is sacked more times(25), but that's still less than the 32 Jason has. Dolphins are in a similar boat as the Ravens, but they have 6 MORE sacks than the Ravens.

Also, I would say that the coaches you listed aren't rookieish as Zorn. Sparano and Smith have coordinator experience and Harbaugh coached Special Teams and Defensive backs at different times in Philly.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;512221]If Snyder fires Zorn we are entering Raider/Al Davis territory.... what legit coach is ever going to want to coach here?[/quote]

None. In fact I'm not sure there are any that want to come here now.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

[quote=irish;512218]Bottom line, teams with 3 losses or less dont have QBs that played worse than JC.

I do agree that the Skins problems are deeper than QB.[/quote]

Actually they do have QBs that have played worse than JC and have three losses or less.

Re: For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...
 

Everyone looks at two spots when a team is losing, head coach and QB. That is certainly understandable but it's not considering the many other issues this team has right now. Yes it all starts with Zorn, but can anyone deny that he hasn't done a good job with Campbell this year? I hope Zorn gets the chance to right this ship but with Snyder you just never know. I think Zorn has too much on his plate and he needs to quit play calling duties or bring in a QB coach. He seems to be drowning right now.