More Portis
 

[url=http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/08/portis-weve-got-to-stick-with-whats-working/]ProFootballTalk.com - PORTIS: “WE’VE GOT TO STICK WITH WHAT’S WORKING”[/url]

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:doh:

Man, I love Portis, but this kind of stuff eventually is not going to be, "Just Portis being Portis" and is really going to start grinding the gears of players and coaches.

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What's worst about this is Portis is missing the point and fanning flames in the locker room with poor thinking and poor analysis. His carries didn't decline because the team decided not to give him the ball. His carries declined because he and the offensive line were a lot less effective.

In those first nine games he average 5.0 yards per carry. In the last seven, he averaged 3.5.

When you're ripping off 5.0 yards per carry the team ends up moving the chains an awful lot, controlling the clock, and hence can feed you more carries. When you're only putting up 3.5 you end up punting a lot more because the chains aren't moving as well.

In the first 9 games, the team rushed the ball on 46% of its offensive plays. In the last 7, they rushed it 41%. But again, this is reflective of poorer performance of the running attack. If you're getting into 2nd and 7s instead of 2nd and 5s, of course the team has to up the passing attempts in order to get first downs.

He's off base. He and the offensive line need to look at themselves first.

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im with Portis. i cant remember how many times i was wondering what the hell Zorn was thinking, in regards to the play calling. im still old school when it comes to winning. run the ball, and play good defense. and with Betts, his carries should happen in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, not towards the ends of games. that's money time, and you go with your money back

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[quote=dmek25;519092]im with Portis. i cant remember how many times i was wondering what the hell Zorn was thinking, in regards to the play calling. im still old school when it comes to winning. run the ball, and play good defense. and with Betts, his carries should happen in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, not towards the ends of games. that's money time, and you go with your money back[/quote]

Clearly you didn't read my post. Facts are facts. Portis is an idiot.

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Bottom line, we faced better defenses the second half that shut down the run and forced us to pass. Zorn didn't shy away from the run for lack of trying. When you're down two scores in the 4th quarter, it sort of dictates that you will pass the ball more.

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STFU already! I'm getting so tired of this crybaby. Portis is such a damn drama queen.

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BOTTOM LINE: Do not air the team dirty laundry in public! Cardinal rule!!!!
When you make a habit of it, you become a....Cowboy.
Very disappointing........

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Like it or hate it.............he's right! Like how he comes forward with it or not.............he's still right. Zorn is an idiot! Plain and simple. And I don't mind Portis coming out and saying that in so many words. I mean, you have Betts, Portis, Sellers, and one of the biggest offensive lines in the league. This team is built to run the football! And it always has been. At least for as long as I've been alive. How can you go from running the ball, the thing that is actually scoring more than 10 points a game, to throwing the ball? Why fix something thats not broken? Its dumb! And you keep on with it for 7 straight games? Putting up 10 points a game!??!? Blaming execution for your losing streak? By doing those things, Zorn asked for players like Portis to come out and say the things that he has said.

Hopefully, Zorn a little more humble now and has listened to his players and his coaches.....................................I just can't help but think that Buges ripped Zorn behind closed doors............................Against San Fran Zorn went back to running the ball 30 times a game we put up over 20 points and almost beat them. And that was great to see! An offense that scores! It took two months, but.................hopefully Zorn has it figured out! We'll find out next year as it would really suck if we win 5 or 6 games; especially with the schedule that we have next year!

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I guess Portis never heard this bit of wisdom; Better to be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt. Portis' definitely doesn't have a bright future ahead as an analyst.....

The locker room "C-word" is beginning to rear its ugly head. The thing that concerns me most is that Portis is complaining about personal production first and foremost. Unfortunately we are stuck with this whiny-baby for 2009 & likely 2010.

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Whether he's right or wrong, this is the type of crap you keep indoors. Ugh, one bad (and most would argue that we EXCEEDED expectations) and Portis starts running off at the mouth. I hate the idea that Snyder values him over other players which I think gives him that attitude.

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[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;519104]I guess Portis never heard this bit of wisdom; Better to be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt. Portis' definitely doesn't have a bright future ahead as an analyst.....

The locker room "C-word" is beginning to rear its ugly head. The thing that concerns me most is that Portis is complaining about personal production first and foremost. Unfortunately we are stuck with this whiny-baby for 2009 & likely 2010.[/quote]

I totally agree about CP and the locker room c-word. He's getting real close now. The problem is that CP knows DS will back him over JZ or any other coach. Hence the coach's authority in undermined. Had CP pulled this crap on almost any other team he'd be suspended at least and at worst looking for another team that wants his services. I seriously doubt the Eagles or Giants head coach would let CP shoot his mouth off like this without some serious repercussions but those head coaches know the owner will back them.

Like another post said, when you are down a couple scores in the second half, and your team has big problems scoring its hard to run the ball because it shortens the game too much to make a comeback possible. The coaches didnt go away from the run because they wanted to, they had to.

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[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;519105]Whether he's right or wrong, this is the type of crap you keep indoors. Ugh, one bad (and most would argue that we EXCEEDED expectations) and Portis starts running off at the mouth. I hate the idea that Snyder values him over other players which I think gives him that attitude.[/quote]
EXACTLY....right and wrong DO NOT enter the equation......sadly CP does not get it. AND the John Thompson show is making a killing on his stupidity

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[quote=Hog1;519102]BOTTOM LINE: Do not air the team dirty laundry in public! Cardinal rule!!!!
When you make a habit of it, you become a....Cowboy.
Very disappointing........[/quote]

Could not agree more. Sounds like he needs a little guidance from from the front office or an explayer that he may respect. The last thing they need is the best player on the team trying to get the coach fired.

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[quote=Miller101;519103]Like it or hate it.............he's right! Like how he comes forward with it or not.............he's still right. Zorn is an idiot! Plain and simple. And I don't mind Portis coming out and saying that in so many words. I mean, you have Betts, Portis, Sellers, and one of the biggest offensive lines in the league. This team is built to run the football! And it always has been. At least for as long as I've been alive. How can you go from running the ball, the thing that is actually scoring more than 10 points a game, to throwing the ball? Why fix something thats not broken? Its dumb! And you keep on with it for 7 straight games? Putting up 10 points a game!??!? Blaming execution for your losing streak? By doing those things, Zorn asked for players like Portis to come out and say the things that he has said.

Hopefully, Zorn a little more humble now and has listened to his players and his coaches.....................................I just can't help but think that Buges ripped Zorn behind closed doors............................Against San Fran Zorn went back to running the ball 30 times a game we put up over 20 points and almost beat them. And that was great to see! An offense that scores! It took two months, but.................hopefully Zorn has it figured out! We'll find out next year as it would really suck if we win 5 or 6 games; especially with the schedule that we have next year![/quote]
1) Read Schneed's Post #3 before you make the statement that Zorn is an idiot. I would take Zorn's experience/opinion (over 35 years) over Portis' any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Portis isn't the most cerebral guy on the team, he responds to everything emotionally.

2) Our offensive line is the smallest in our division: Average weight of OLs in NFC East: Eagles 330, Cowboys 327, Giants 315, Skins 302. By no means is our OL a "grind it out, smashmouth" OL. The average age of the starters, (with Jansen in) is 32 years old. Over a 16 game season of pounding an older, smaller OL will break down, that's what happened. Unfortunately this isn't the Hogs of 80-92.

3) Have you ever called plays for an offense with a poor OL up front....my guess is no. It's not fun and every playcall, even what should be simple ones, is difficult.

4) My guess is Buges isn't ripping anyone, it's his unit that was the primary reason for the 2-6 drop-off at the end of the season. Not that it's his fault, but IMO it's time for Buges to retire. We need to bring in an OL coach with WCO experience. We certainly need to retool the OL. We desperately need youth/size. C, and a young stud LT would be my primary targets. Move Samuels to the right side, he's having trouble with speed off the edge. Hopefully Rinehart develops and between, Kendall, Jansen, Heyer we have serviceable back-ups at C, G, T.

Portis needs to STFU and just play football, he's getting $ 5.6M in 2009 and $ 10M in 2010. Do your job, let the coaches do theirs. Nothing helps a coaching staff more than a highly paid veteran criticizing and whining to the media about internal dirty laundry every week.....

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[quote=Dblock804;519110]Could not agree more. Sounds like he needs a little guidance from from the front office or an explayer that he may respect. The last thing they need is the best player on the team trying to get the coach fired.[/quote]

IMO, CP isnt trying to get Zorn fired, Portis is a very insecure human being and says these things because of that insecurity. He has received guidance from the FO but it comes in the form of FO silence when CP makes these stupid statements. The FO has enabled his to keep doing this.

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Portis please shut the **** up.!!

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Portis often has diarrhea of the mouth. I don't even listen or care anymore.

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I am about done with Portis. His version of events is not at all accurate either...the Redskins got away from the running game later in the season becasue it was no longer working. Portis wore down and started getting injured, the OL started getting injured. Does he really think Zorn did not want to run the ball? When it's not working you need to go away from it and try and win the game. There was not one game this season where the run was working and Zorn went away from it. Portis seems more interested in his stats then winning games.

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Complaining about personal stats = non-team player/cancer/non-winner.

Skins will be better when he is gone

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[quote=irish;519106]I totally agree about CP and the locker room c-word. He's getting real close now. The problem is that CP knows DS will back him over JZ or any other coach. Hence the coach's authority in undermined. Had CP pulled this crap on almost any other team he'd be suspended at least and at worst looking for another team that wants his services. I seriously doubt the Eagles or Giants head coach would let CP shoot his mouth off like this without some serious repercussions but those head coaches know the owner will back them.

Like another post said, when you are down a couple scores in the second half, and your team has big problems scoring its hard to run the ball because it shortens the game too much to make a comeback possible. The coaches didnt go away from the run because they wanted to, they had to.[/quote]
Well if thats the case how come Dallas put up with TO and the stuff he said over the season.

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This is old news, it was discussed ad-nauseum Monday when it happened. I'll restate my thoughts:

1. Portis is an idiot and becoming a locker room cancer.
2. That said, he's 100% correct. The reason we were so successful running the ball (and winning games) is because in the first half of the season, we were still using the Joe Gibbs running game. Starting 6-2 was -more than anything else- a carry-over from the system Joe Gibbs installed. The new passing game Zorn installed here was down right horrible. The one thing working for our offense was the running game -- and Zorn decided to start messing with it. Zorn is an idiot.

What does it all mean?

1.This is a 6-10 team (at best) next year.
2. Zorn will be fired.
3. Vinny will be fired. (He said in an interview Snyder was only giving he and Zorn two years to right the ship).
4. Next year, at this time, Synder will attempt to hire BIll Cowher to a 12-15M per year annual contract to be our head coach/team president/general manager. Unfortunately, He will probably be beat out by Jerry Jones. There is no logical reason for Jones to have not fired Wade Phillips by now - none. the only reason he still has a job is because Jones wants Cowher and is keeping the team intact until then.
5. If Snyder can't outbid Jones in landing Cowher, plan B will be to hire Mike Holmgren as our GM and Mike Shanahan as our Head coach. This is actually may be a better situation for the skins anyway. Shanahan/Holmgren live and breathe the WCO, so we wouldn't have to change to a brand new offensive system again. They are also offensive guys so they would probably be fine leaving the defensive system in tact - our team would have far greater continuity with a Holmgren/Shanahan combo than by bringing in anyone else.

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Portis is starting to annoy me a little. Sure he's a helluva RB but let's be honest here guys, he doesn't have the resume, leadership qualities or unique talent to pop off at the mouth as often as he does. Take us to the Super Bowl or zip it. I hate the 'shut up and play' mentality a lot of fans & media have towards players, but in some cases I sympathize!

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[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;519131]2. That said, he's 100% correct. The reason we were so successful running the ball (and winning games) is because in the first half of the season, we were still using the Joe Gibbs running game. Starting 6-2 was -more than anything else- a carry-over from the system Joe Gibbs installed. The new passing game Zorn installed here was down right horrible. The one thing working for our offense was the running game -- and Zorn decided to start messing with it. Zorn is an idiot. [/quote]We were using different blocking schemes right from the beginning. Day one. I don't know where you are getting this information, but it is wrong, and unless you can produce a link (in which case it would still be wrong, but at least you wouldn't be to blame), then I have to take you at face value: that you are making stuff up to support a case that you can't support with real evidence.

Nothing changed schematically at mid season. We shifted our ratio more towards the pass as the running game got less effective (which I personally attribute to injuries to Portis, Samuels, and Todd Yoder generally sucking).

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[quote=SouperMeister;519094]Bottom line, [B]we faced better defenses the second half that shut down the run and forced us to pass.[/B] Zorn didn't shy away from the run for lack of trying. When you're down two scores in the 4th quarter, it sort of dictates that you will pass the ball more.[/quote]

We also faced the Bengals and 49ers and lost, and had a small margin of victory against Seattle. All three of these teams do not have good defenses.

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first off i like portis alot. but he needs to keep his mouth shut to the media. i know i probably wouldnt have a job if i tried to tell my boss what was right and what was wrong. if anything keep it behind closed doors.

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Real simple Portis wanted 1500 yards this season and didn't get it. He's breaking down and knows his time is getting shorter. Had he got his 1500 he wouldn't be talking the way he is.

His injuries are responsible for the under achieving of his self centered goal. He was the one limping of the field after every play of the second half of the season not his O line. They were still out there trying while he was sucking oxygen and getting his hand rubbed

We would be wise to go after Ward or someone similar

Yes I'm a Portis fan. But I call them as I see them.

Take a look at his injury report

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what about jacobs?

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[quote=Ruhskins;519138]We also faced the Bengals and 49ers and lost, and had a small margin of victory against Seattle. All three of these teams do not have good defenses.[/quote]Well, you can't lump Seattle in with the others because we ran really effectively against Seattle. The other two, you know, our offense was a shell of itself, personnel wise. Mostly just Samuels, but Heyer gets lost so much trying to find who he's supposed to block in the running game that it's embarassing.

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[quote=firstdown;519128]Well if thats the case how come Dallas put up with TO and the stuff he said over the season.[/quote]

I didnt say every team I said almost every other team and Dallas is one of the teams I feel is like the Skins when it comes to coach authority.

I guess if you want to know why Dallas puts up with TO you'd have to ask someone in the Dallas organization.

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I really think leadership is becoming an issue on this team, and I'm concerned that this will lead to discipline issues and our team in danger of becoming like the Bengals or the Cowboys, with a terrible locker room and players doing stupid things. The offense right now doesn't have a true leader, Campbell is a bit too young and his personal character is not of getting into someone's face. In a previous thread, someone brought up a good point of whether vets like Moss and ARE are mentoring the young receivers; which given at some of the comments made in the media about Devin Thomas (wanting to get away from football in the offseason, etc., etc.) it appears that this ain't happening. I think the defense has some potential leaders, like London Fletcher. Yet still you have situations with veterans like Shawn Springs, skipping OTAs and working out on his own (I'm not sure this happened last offseason, but it has in the past).

Sadly, this appears to be Clinton Portis' team, and the problem with that is that Portis is two outrageous comments from becoming a T.O. or a Chad Johnson. You'll see if many of the successful teams, there is an established veteran leadership among players (Brady in NE, Manning in Indy, Ray Lewis in Baltimore), I'm just not seeing that in our team. I fear that this leadership vacuum is going to cause the team to blow up if and when they have a losing season.

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[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;519131]This is old news, it was discussed ad-nauseum Monday when it happened. I'll restate my thoughts:

1. Portis is an idiot and becoming a locker room cancer.
2. That said, he's 100% correct. The reason we were so successful running the ball (and winning games) is because in the first half of the season, we were still using the Joe Gibbs running game. Starting 6-2 was -more than anything else- a carry-over from the system Joe Gibbs installed. The new passing game Zorn installed here was down right horrible. The one thing working for our offense was the running game -- and Zorn decided to start messing with it. Zorn is an idiot.

What does it all mean?

1.This is a 6-10 team (at best) next year.
2. Zorn will be fired.
3. Vinny will be fired. (He said in an interview Snyder was only giving he and Zorn two years to right the ship).
4. Next year, at this time, Synder will attempt to hire BIll Cowher to a 12-15M per year annual contract to be our head coach/team president/general manager. Unfortunately, He will probably be beat out by Jerry Jones. There is no logical reason for Jones to have not fired Wade Phillips by now - none. the only reason he still has a job is because Jones wants Cowher and is keeping the team intact until then.
5. If Snyder can't outbid Jones in landing Cowher, plan B will be to hire Mike Holmgren as our GM and Mike Shanahan as our Head coach. This is actually may be a better situation for the skins anyway. Shanahan/Holmgren live and breathe the WCO, so we wouldn't have to change to a brand new offensive system again. They are also offensive guys so they would probably be fine leaving the defensive system in tact - our team would have far greater continuity with a Holmgren/Shanahan combo than by bringing in anyone else.[/quote]

Cowher will never come here and put up with DS's meddling and undermining his authority. I am starting to wonder what decent coach would want to come here (except for a big payday) if DS fires Zorn after only 2 years with a terribly flawed team. It could be the reason why Zorn was hired in the first place, DS realized that was the best he was going to do.

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Portis gives 100% every Sunday when he's steps on the field, no matter how hurt he is and whether he has the ball. He never lets up from whistle to whistle. As far as on-field effort, you can't ask for more.

That said, even though he later apparently apologized for his comments, he needs to stop. Or someone needs to tell him to stop. Start fining him for appearing on the John Thompson show, or something like that. He's frustrated, we all get that. But he's not the only one on that team furstrated. He will do anything to win, that's great. But so will a lot of other people on that team.

And this really exposes Snyder's biggest weakness. I get that he wants to take care of his star, a lot of owners do that. But you have to separate the aura of being around famous football players with the responsibilities of being the boss. Snyder has a bad habit of trying to be one of the guys by bowing down to a player and giving them whatever they want, sometimes at the expense of the rest of the organization. He did it with Darrell Green, with Bruce Smith, and now he might be doing it with Portis. He needs to put his foot down.

As for the running game, from day one Zorn (I think it was him) had said that the season would start with the same running schemes of Gibbs/Bugel and gradually it would evolve to co-exist effectively with the WCO. So yeah things didn't stay the same throughout, though that was hardly as big an issue as I think Portis is making it out to be, but that was to be expected.

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[quote=SmootSmack;519148]Portis gives 100% every Sunday when he's steps on the field, no matter how hurt he is and whether he has the ball. He never lets up from whistle to whistle. As far as on-field effort, you can't ask for more.

That said, even though he later apparently apologized for his comments, he needs to stop. Or someone needs to tell him to stop. Start fining him for appearing on the John Thompson show, or something like that. He's frustrated, we all get that. But he's not the only one on that team furstrated. He will do anything to win, that's great. But so will a lot of other people on that team.

And this really exposes Snyder's biggest weakness. I get that he wants to take care of his star, a lot of owners do that. But you have to separate the aura of being around famous football players with the responsibilities of being the boss. Snyder has a bad habit of trying to be one of the guys by bowing down to a player and giving them whatever they want, sometimes at the expense of the rest of the organization. He did it with Darrell Green, with Bruce Smith, and now he might be doing it with Portis. He needs to put his foot down.

As for the running game, from day one Zorn (I think it was him) had said that the season would start with the same running schemes of Gibbs/Bugel and gradually it would evolve to co-exist effectively with the WCO. So yeah things didn't stay the same throughout, though that was hardly as big an issue as I think Portis is making it out to be, but that was to be expected.[/quote]

The problem is that DS sees himself as the boss of the players when in fact JZ is the boss of the players.

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[quote=irish;519147]Cowher will never come here and put up with DS's meddling and undermining his authority. I am starting to wonder what decent coach would want to come here (except for a big payday) if DS fires Zorn after only 2 years with a terribly flawed team. It could be the reason why Zorn was hired in the first place, [B]DS realized that was the best he was going to do[/B].[/quote]

Exactly, Zorn is a horrible coach. However, the main reason Snyder is the way he is is because he has Cerrato to act as his enabler. Snyder does meddle, but Cerrato has always been his yes-man. When Snyder fired Cerrato in the past, he stayed out of things. yes, it was only for a year, but Snyder has shown that he doesn't [I][B]have[/B][/I] to meddle... he just likes to and he Cerrato has always let him.

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Zorn's play calling the last half of the season was trash, he couldn't adjust his sweat pants let alone the Redskins offense. I hope he has learned how to adjust. Portis has a big mouth but he's not responsible for the 2-6 finish. That's all Zorn even if Portis was getting 3.5 yards per carry. You see the f'ing game plans against the Steelers, Ravens, Cowboys? Trash!!!!

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Hey Portis, SHUT UP! The offensive line rarely got you to the second level, and if they did -- you didn't break any tackles. The reason this offense sputtered is because our passing game was non-existent. Even if we threw a pass it seemed like it was off-target or it was dropped. Secondly, our play calling was starting to move back to the Gibbs era. Run, Run, Pass (short of the chains), Punt every series.

342 carries, 3rd in the NFL, and it wasn't enough? That was the reason for our collapse? Clinton Portis is really starting to bug me, and he's becoming a cancer. I wish Zorn would have dealt with him like Tomlin dealt with Tony Parker. The big issue is it's going to be a few years before we can part ways with him because of the contract.

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[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;519155]Exactly, Zorn is a horrible coach. However, the main reason Snyder is the way he is is because he has Cerrato to act as his enabler. Snyder does meddle, but Cerrato has always been his yes-man. When Snyder fired Cerrato in the past, he stayed out of things. yes, it was only for a year, but Snyder has shown that he doesn't [I][B]have[/B][/I] to meddle... he just likes to and he Cerrato has always let him.[/quote]

I hear you and agree but I think the first time VC tells DS to go away he is gone and since VC likes his job he wont do that. DS should be smart enough to keep out of the football stuff but he wants to show he know as much as any of these football guys (even though he doesnt have a clue) and if by luck the Skins win a Super Bowl with DS as owner then DS can get up and crow about how he told VC to pick up this and that guy and how he was the real brains behind putting this team together. Unfortunately DS isnt smart enough to let the football guys do their stuff. It will be more luck than anything if the Skins win a championship with DS as owner because ultimately he's the true problem.

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[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;519155]Exactly, Zorn is a horrible coach. However, the main reason Snyder is the way he is is because he has Cerrato to act as his enabler. Snyder does meddle, but Cerrato has always been his yes-man. When Snyder fired Cerrato in the past, he stayed out of things. yes, it was only for a year, but Snyder has shown that he doesn't [I][B]have[/B][/I] to meddle... he just likes to and he Cerrato has always let him.[/quote]

What is it that you do again?

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[quote=SmootSmack;519162]What is it that you do again?[/quote]

I'm in risk management. I dont see how my profession is relevant though.