OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

Yes, I know Jasnen is done, and yes, I know the chances of Heyer developing into a stud RT are slim to none. However, when you look back to the problems on our line this year, more often than ont, Campbell was getting pressured in the middle. OT is a need, for sure, but we can get by with Samuels on one side and Jansen/Heyer on the other for another year if we have an upgraded interior line. if we go with more 2TE sets, Cooley and Davis can always help our Tackles out by staying into block or just getting a quick block in before going out on a route. Having a solid interior line is a MUST.

Unfortunately, we need some help at all three Interior line positions. Pete Kendall was arguably our best lineman this year, but he is a free agent. Rabach is DONE. he's finished as a starter. Randy Thomas is done too, but unlike Rabach, he has a ridiculous cap figure. While cutting Rabach is fairly pain-free, Thomas is going to be on the roster for years to come... but that doesnt mean he should start.

Considering all our primary needs (OL, DL, and LB), free agency is where we should focus on fixing our defense. There arent many good, YOUNG offensive linemen available in free agency (and we should absolutely resign kendall) but our two primary OL needs can be addressed in the draft with our first two picks. Here is who i feel we should target, with the following information taken from [url=http://walterfootball.com/draft2009OG.php]WalterFootball.com: 2009 NFL Draft: Offensive Guard Rankings[/url]
[url=http://walterfootball.com/draft2009C.php]WalterFootball.com: 2009 NFL Draft: Center Rankings[/url]

[B]Round 1, Pick 13:[/B]
[quote]
[B]Duke Robinson, Oklahoma[/B]
Height: 6-5. Weight: 330.
Projected 40 Time: 5.28.
Projected Round (2009): Top 25 Pick.
1/8/09: Easily an AP All-America first-teamer, Duke Robinson was a monstrous force on a line that was part of one of the greatest offenses in history.

11/2/08: Still the elite guard in this class by a wide distance. [B]He could go in the top 15 if a team is desperate enough for a guard.[/B]
[/quote].
If he falls to us, we HAVE to take him. He would be an immediate starter who could shore up our LG spot for a decade.

[B]Round 3, Pick 77:[/B]
[quote]
[B]Eric Wood, Louisville [/B]
Height: 6-4. Weight: 306.
Projected 40 Time: 5.09.
Projected Round (2009): 3-4.
1/8/09: Eric Wood has made 49 consecutive starts. Crazy. He was voted to the All-Big East First Team.

5/26/08: You're getting a rock at center if you draft Eric Wood; he's started 37 consecutive games. He was voted to the All-Big East first team last year.
[/quote]

If we got these two guys, I see our line looking like this:

LT: Chris Samuels
LG: Duke Robinson
C: Wood
RG: Kendall
RT: Heyer

Our backups would be: Jansen(T), Rinehart (T/G), Thomas (G), and Geisinger (C).

At some point in 2009 and by 2010 at the latest, Rinehart should surplant Kendall at the RG position.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

I do happen to agree with you on this one. Nothing the Redskins could run last year went between the Guards because Thomas and Rabach were awful. It's a bigger immediate need than OT.

If we don't add an OT in the draft this year, I have to imagine Jansen would stay at RT. He's not horrible, but he doesn't limit your playcalling like Heyer does. Heyer's pass protection form is well beyond his years, but he's still very, very raw and possibly not ready to start in the NFL, without serious improvement in the offseason. Jansen is meh, and great OLB/DE hybrids are going to kill him for the rest of his career, but he's fine if we can't upgrade the position with, say, Jordan Gross.

Jansen was our third best offensive lineman in 2008, so I don't really understand all the hate.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

I really don't like Heyer starting unless he really gets coached up well between now and next season. I'd rather stick it out one more year with JJ.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

It's hard to see Jansen not somewhere in the starting lineup with the heavy contract he has. We might bump him inside still, but I think he can still handle RT, if we put some decent players inside of him.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

You're a confused dude BigHair. On Wednesday I suggested we take the best OL or LB available at 13, and I listed some names, one of which was Duke Robinson, the guard from Oklahoma.

Your response to my suggestion:
[I]
"I dont get all the love for duke robinson... he's a guard. You dont take a guard in the 1st round... its just foolish. besides, we've already got Rinehart, Thomas, and Kendall could resign here. Have Rinehart start with either Thomas or Kendall, alongside Samuels, a new center and a new RT, and our offensive line will be fine next year. We can then replace Thomas/Kendall in 2010.[/I]"

Link: [URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27693-some-offseason-optimism-2.html#post518617[/URL]

Then today you start a thread suggesting how badly we need guards and that we should take Duke Robinson in the 1st round. To quote you, that's "foolish," no?? Care to explain?

I suppose in the last 48 hours you had some revelation about how drafting a guard in the first round goes from foolish to a necessity. :doh:

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=GMScud;519166]You're a confused dude BigHair. On Wednesday I suggested we take the best OL or LB available at 13, and I listed some names, one of which was Duke Robinson, the guard from Oklahoma.

Your response to my suggestion:

[I]I dont get all the love for duke robinson... he's a guard. You dont take a guard in the 1st round... its just foolish. besides, we've already got Rinehart, Thomas, and Kendall could resign here. Have Rinehart start with either Thomas or Kendall, alongside Samuels, a new center and a new RT, and our offensive line will be fine next year. We can then replace Thomas/Kendall in 2010.[/I]

Link: [URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27693-some-offseason-optimism-2.html#post518617[/URL]

Then today you start a thread suggesting how badly we need guards and that we should take Duke Robinson in the 1st round. To quote you, that's "foolish," no?? Care to explain?

I suppose in the last 48 hours you had some revelation about how drafting a guard in the first round goes from foolish to a necessity. :doh:[/quote]

It said it on a Mock Draft website so it must be true. Those sites are gold!

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

I just don't see how we can fix our OL problems with two rookies.

I believe that we need to sign an OT in Free Agency. Our QB may be bothered by rushers coming up the middle but he's going to get killed by some edge rusher if we don't replace Jansen with someone who can start at RT now.

I strongly support the idea of drafting a couple of good OL prospects, as well.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=GMScud;519166]You're a confused dude BigHair. On Wednesday I suggested we take the best OL or LB available at 13, and I listed some names, one of which was Duke Robinson, the guard from Oklahoma.

Your response to my suggestion:
[I]
I dont get all the love for duke robinson... he's a guard. You dont take a guard in the 1st round... its just foolish. besides, we've already got Rinehart, Thomas, and Kendall could resign here. Have Rinehart start with either Thomas or Kendall, alongside Samuels, a new center and a new RT, and our offensive line will be fine next year. We can then replace Thomas/Kendall in 2010.[/I]

Link: [URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/27693-some-offseason-optimism-2.html#post518617[/URL]

Then today you start a thread suggesting how badly we need guards and that we should take Duke Robinson in the 1st round. To quote you, that's "foolish," no?? Care to explain?

I suppose in the last 48 hours you had some revelation about how drafting a guard in the first round goes from foolish to a necessity. :doh:[/quote]


In principle, and as a general rule, guard is one of those positions where a guy who usually goes in the lower 1st round is not much better than a guy you can get in the 2nd or 3rd round. I was also basing it on a Ross Tucker SI.com article (about a year old) where he argued that guard was the least important OL position.

However, everywhere I went, people kept talking about duke robinson. duke robinson this. duke robinson that... so i actually checked the guy out. i was just ignorant of the fact that Duke Robinson is the next Hutch - one of the guys thats so far above his peers, he's worth taking that high. After thinking about it, all the elite Tackles are going to be gone by the time we pick at 13. Aaron Curry will probably be off the board too. Then i looked at who was availabe in free agency, and there are some good guards there, but no one that is both YOUNG and a SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE over what we have now.

So that, combined with my explaination earlier, is why I changed my mind. I'm officially on the Duke Robinson bandwagon if he's there when we pick at 13. Alot can - and will - happen between now and the draft. Its all too early to know what we will do - it all depends on how stupid Vinny is this offseason and what we do or do not do in free agency.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;519168]It said it on a Mock Draft website so it must be true. Those sites are gold![/quote]

I get your point. Everything is just speculation right now, but its not like we have anything better (skins-related) to talk about.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;519172]In principle, and as a general rule, guard is one of those positions where a guy who usually goes in the lower 1st round is not much better than a guy you can get in the 2nd or 3rd round. I was also basing it on a Ross Tucker SI.com article (about a year old) where he argued that guard was the least important OL position.

However, everywhere I went, people kept talking about duke robinson. duke robinson this. duke robinson that... so i actually checked the guy out. i was just ignorant of the fact that Duke Robinson is the next Hutch - one of the guys thats so far above his peers, he's worth taking that high. After thinking about it, all the elite Tackles are going to be gone by the time we pick at 13. Aaron Curry will probably be off the board too. Then i looked at who was availabe in free agency, and there are some good guards there, but no one that is both YOUNG and a SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE over what we have now.

So that, combined with my explaination earlier, is why I changed my mind. I'm officially on the Duke Robinson bandwagon if he's there when we pick at 13. Alot can - and will - happen between now and the draft. Its all too early to know what we will do - it all depends on how stupid Vinny is this offseason and what we do or do not do in free agency.[/quote]

Welcome. There's a reason people left and right have been touting Duke Robinson. Me and everyone else didn't pull his name out of a hat when suggesting he's worth a look in the 1st round.

One side note- he had a poor game last night against my Florida Gators - 3 costly penalties and was actually benched for a series. GO GATORS!

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

I've been on the Duke Bandwagon too. Are any of the offensive linemen from the Gators up for the draft? I don't think that I can say yay or nay on Duke over one game. It was the big game though and it has caused me some doubt. At one point they did take him out of the game but he did return. I was looking forward to seeing how Duke and Phil did but I must admit that I fell asleep during the first quarter and didn't wake up until the third?

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=GTripp0012;519154]I do happen to agree with you on this one. Nothing the Redskins could run last year went between the Guards because Thomas and Rabach were awful. It's a bigger immediate need than OT.

If we don't add an OT in the draft this year, I have to imagine Jansen would stay at RT. He's not horrible, but he doesn't limit your playcalling like Heyer does. Heyer's pass protection form is well beyond his years, but he's still very, very raw and possibly not ready to start in the NFL, without serious improvement in the offseason. Jansen is meh, and great OLB/DE hybrids are going to kill him for the rest of his career, but he's fine if we can't upgrade the position with, say, Jordan Gross.

Jansen was our third best offensive lineman in 2008, so I don't really understand all the hate.[/quote]

Third on one of the crappiest offensive lines in the league is nothing to get excited about. We need a RT. Jansen is done at RT. He has no lateral mobility and is easily beat by anyone with average speed. And Heyer is not ready and there is no reason to believe at this point he will be a good RT.

And having a TE stay back to help is not the answer. This just limits the offense even more.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

I'd like to see us trade down to add more picks. Excellent O linemen can be found in rounds 2 & 3 without reaching. Charlie Casserly drafted both Tre Johnson and John Jansen as 2nd rounders once upon a time.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=Jake2008;519210]Third on one of the crappiest offensive lines in the league is nothing to get excited about. We need a RT. Jansen is done at RT. He has no lateral mobility and is easily beat by anyone with average speed. And Heyer is not ready and there is no reason to believe at this point he will be a good RT.

And having a TE stay back to help is not the answer. This just limits the offense even more.[/quote]Good points. I mean, just because we could do worse than sucking it up and putting Jansen back at RT next year doesn't mean we necessarily should if a better option is staring us in the face.

Of course, watching Vinny botch the WR situation last offseason, you'd have to think that even if a better option does stare us in the face, we'd go forward with Jansen anyway.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=GTripp0012;519216]Good points. I mean, just because we could do worse than sucking it up and putting Jansen back at RT next year doesn't mean we necessarily should if a better option is staring us in the face.

Of course, watching Vinny botch the WR situation last offseason, you'd have to think that even if a better option does stare us in the face, we'd go forward with Jansen anyway.[/quote]

I have zero faith in Vinny and to be honest it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we drafted another receiver with the 13th pick.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=GTripp0012;519216]Good points. I mean, just because we could do worse than sucking it up and putting Jansen back at RT next year doesn't mean we necessarily should if a better option is staring us in the face.

Of course, watching Vinny botch the WR situation last offseason, you'd have to think that even if a better option does stare us in the face, we'd go forward with Jansen anyway.[/quote]

Everyones points here are valid - we all see different holes on our team, especially the lines, and it seems we all have different opinions on what needs to be fixed [I]first[/I]...

More and more, i am becoming convinced that this team is [I]several[/I] years away from being a contender. Several years away likely means Zorn may not be the head coach by the time we have the proper personnel to be a true competitor. Zorn possibly not being the head coach in 2-3 years means its important to get players that will be really good in [I]any[/I] system.

For this reason, I think we would be very wise to invest our 1st and 3rd round picks in the best offensive linemen on the board. For the most part, a guard is a guard, a tackle is a tackle, and a center is a center. If the guy is really good, you can put him in any offensive system and they can have success. On the other hand, with players in the defensive front 7, the system you run is much more important to the players success. the types of DLs and LBs you select depend largely on whether you run a 3-4 or 4-3.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

I don't see Vinny drafting a O lineman in the 1st round. He hasn't had that much success (other than Dockerry). I expect him to trade down and get more picks, draft a DE in the mid 20's and maybe look at a OG in the second round.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;519223]Zorn possibly not being the head coach in 2-3 years means its important to get players that will be really good in [I]any[/I] system.[/quote]Ah yes, the entire key to the NFL draft. I'm being serious though, the draft gets complicated for teams who try to nitpick early on and select system guys rather than fundamentally sound prospects they can build a team around.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

The past few years we have learned that Vinny doesn't give a damn about our real needs (O line D Line) he looks for the flashy player that will pack the crowds at FedEx turn. Thats why I see us drafting Taylor Mays or trading down to draft an OLB later in the first.

Said it here first if we stay at 13 S Taylor Mays [B]will[/B] be our pick.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=vallin21;519230]The past few years we have learned that Vinny doesn't give a damn about our real needs (O line D Line) he looks for the flashy player that will pack the crowds at FedEx turn. Thats why I see us drafting Taylor Mays or trading down to draft an OLB later in the first.

Said it here first if we stay at 13 S Taylor Mays [B]will[/B] be our pick.[/quote]

I agree with you. Like I said previously, it wouldn't surprise me at all if a flashy WR is available at 13 he will be a Redskin.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

I would pretty much bet the farm that Vinny wouldn't take a WR at #13. Let's call it the Matt Millen rule, nobody wants to go down that path.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=vallin21;519224]I don't see Vinny drafting a O lineman in the 1st round. He hasn't had that much success (other than Dockerry). I expect him to trade down and get more picks, draft a DE in the mid 20's and maybe look at a OG in the second round.[/quote]

Its bothered me for a while that we seem to do so well in the lower rounds of this years draft, while not doing that good of a job in rounds 1-2. I have nothing to base this next statement on, other than its a gut feeling...

We have a really good scouting department. Vinnys staff, especially Morocco Brown is a really good judge of talent... but Vinny and danny... not so much.

Personally, I think Vinnys an idiot. However, its also possible that he is doing what anyone who wants to keep their job will do - in business, your #1 customer is your boss and if you want to keep your job, you need to keep your boss happy. Vinnys boss likes to make a splash and his boss likes skill position players. His boss wants "sexy picks" in the first two rounds of the draft. So on draft day, Vinny didnt necessarily follow the recommendations of his staff. His owner wanted receivers, so Vinny went out and got some receivers. Then, in the lower rounds, Vinny adhered more closely to the information his staff has put together. This explains why we ignored our lines in the higher rounds, hit and miss on skill position players there... while being really good at picking up players in the lower rounds.

The reason i bring any of this up, is, this is the first year in a really long time that we can go into the draft without having a true NEED at ANY of the skill positions (assuming our rookie WRs develop as planned and we can keep 2 of Rogers, Hall, and Springs prior to the draft). So we can go into the draft only having needs for OL, DL, and LB. If Snyder and Vinny are "satisfied" with the skill positions, perhaps Vinny will be more inclined/able to address these areas.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote]Unfortunately, we need some help at all three Interior line positions. Pete Kendall was arguably our best lineman this year, but he is a free agent. Rabach is DONE. he's finished as a starter. Randy Thomas is done too, but unlike Rabach, he has a ridiculous cap figure.[/quote]

I agree 100% about Kendall playing well, Terrel Davis even mentioned him as a pro-bowl snub AND Pete says that he wants to return.

While I wouldn't quite say that Rabach is done, i think that he struggles against some of the bigger NT/DT.
I sadly agree about Randy.
I think our line could use upgrades.

I look at the line issues from this vantage point: [COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="3"]Imagine that the Redskins can only upgrade 1 offensive line postion which postion would you pick?[/SIZE][/COLOR]

My answer is[B][U] Center[/U][/B].

Nothing against Rabach. But, IMO the single greatest benefit to the overall line would happen if our Center could match up 1-1 with the likes of a NT/DT like Ratliff. When/if the center can hold their own the rest of the line improves automatically.

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;519153]....when you look back to the problems on our line this year, more often than ont, Campbell was getting pressured in the middle.[/quote]

I think that Kendall will still be effective at 1 Guard spot and i gotta believe that Rinehart will be at least as good as Thomas.(especially since Fabini filled in for Randy last year, after the whole Wade fiasco) Buges and the media raved about Rhino all training camp and preseason yet the kid didn't see a snap of game time.
I think Rinehart's playing time was a victim of Buges loyalty to his veterans. Rinehart is one of our few young lineman and IMO they should've put him in when Thomas was struggling and let him play. Rinehart has 'upside' we can watch him improve instead of wishing that our vets return to form while we watching their play decline.

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;519153] I know the chances of Heyer developing into a stud RT are slim to none. [/quote]
I don't know about this, Heyer played well last year as a rookie undrafted free agent inplace of an injured Jansen. Heyer seemed to improve each week
then beat out Jansen for the RT spot during training camp.
-If Buges still thinks that Jansen can play and all signs point to Heyer being better and not mention younger then Jansen, doesn't that mean that Heyer is at least a decent OT?

[quote]OT is a need, for sure, but we can get by with Samuels on one side and Jansen/Heyer on the other for another year if we have an upgraded interior line.. ..... [/quote]

Samuels when healthy is out best lineman. But it wouldn't hurt to have a young LT waiting in the wings.



[quote][COLOR="DarkRed"]Having a solid interior line is a MUST[/COLOR][/quote]

And it starts with center.

My lineup if the Redskins only make 1 upgrade:
LT Samuels LG Rinehart C-*Rookie* RG-Rinehart RT- Heyer

[url=http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2009C.php]WalterFootball.com: 2009 NFL Draft: Center Rankings[/url]

Alex Mack, California
Height: 6-5. Weight: 316.
Projected 40 Time: 5.13.
Projected Round (2009): 1.

Max Unger, Oregon
Height: 6-5. Weight: 300.
Projected 40 Time: 5.20.
Projected Round (2009): 1-2.

Jonathan Luigs, Arkansas
Height: 6-4. Weight: 314.
Projected 40 Time: 5.21.
Projected Round (2009): 2.

NFL Draft Scout Rankings has them ranked different and has none of them going in the 1st so we could even trade down from the 13th pick take another player and still land one of these guys in the 2nd round.

[url=http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=C&draftyear=2009&sortby=tsxpos&order=ASC]NFL Draft Scout Rankings, From Prep to Pro Coverage for Pros by Pros - Powered by the Sports Xchange[/url]

:food-smil

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=Mattyk72;519157]I really don't like Heyer starting unless he really gets coached up well between now and next season. [B]I'd rather stick it out one more year with JJ[/B].[/quote]


thanks but i dont think i can play with the NFL defensive ends but seriously i agree with you heyer hasnt shown me enough to think he can be a RT for 16 games

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=Mattyk72;519260]I would pretty much bet the farm that Vinny wouldn't take a WR at #13. Let's call it the Matt Millen rule, nobody wants to go down that path.[/quote]
So , unless Matt Millen gets hired as our GM , we will not draft P. Harvin , WR , Florida Gators

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

This thread assumes that Vinny will draft for a position of need.

Cerratto has consistently stated that he always drafts for Best Player Available. Most of the media who follows this team;most of the fans would say we need to draft for the OL and DL. Some of us have been saying it for years and years.

Yet, the team under Snyder has gone for anything BUT draft for the trenches. I see nothing that makes me think that Vinny will suddenly change his draft strategy this season.

Only one draft pick from last season got significant playing time - Chris Horton. One out of ten choices.

Vinny will pick poorly for the wrong positions. I'd like to see us draft a OT.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=Mattyk72;519157]I really don't like Heyer starting unless he really gets coached up well between now and next season. I'd rather stick it out one more year with JJ.[/quote]
I cant beleve that anyone wold want JJ in for another year. You have always been his biggest fan. Is he a personal friend of your, and I am not being sarcastic.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;519300]I cant beleve that anyone wold want JJ in for another year. You have always been his biggest fan. Is he a personal friend of your, and I am not being sarcastic.[/quote]

Huh?

I've readily admitted that he has lost a step. But if I had to choose between the lesser of two evils I would take Jansen. Heyer just stinks at run blocking and he still has a lot to work on in pass pro. Jansen at least has the experience and is still effective in the running game.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=Mattyk72;519301]Huh?

I've readily admitted that he has lost a step. But if I had to choose between the lesser of two evils I would take Jansen. Heyer just stinks at run blocking and he still has a lot to work on in pass pro. Jansen at least has the experience and is still effective in the running game.[/quote]
I was not saying that you think he is perfect, but you have always favored him. I just thought maybe you liked the guy for the inangibles that he brings. I do not like Jansen and hope that Heyer is ready to take his place.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;519319]I was not saying that you think he is perfect, but you have always favored him. I just thought maybe you liked the guy for the inangibles that he brings. [B] I do not like Jansen and hope that Heyer is ready to take his place[/B].[/quote]

I think we were all hoping for that this year and it didn't happen.

I'm not banking on Heyer ever becoming a quality NFL starter. He's a backup at best to me. I think we need to look elsewhere for the future at RT.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

The average age of our OL is high and getting older. We simply must start to draft new blood this season.

One or two new rookies would extend the careers of Jansen , Samuels, etc.

If we draft for the OL over the next two years we can build OL for the long-term. Regardless of who is the coach.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[B][SIZE="7"]Alex Mack C[/SIZE][/B] get him, whatever it takes. He's the smartest player in the draft and is a center which requires to make the calls in the line just like MLB. Portis can then pounded straight ahead instead of running to the outside.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=Mattyk72;519320]I think we were all hoping for that this year and it didn't happen.

I'm not banking on Heyer ever becoming a quality NFL starter. He's a backup at best to me. I think we need to look elsewhere for the future at RT.[/quote]

In my perfect world, we sign Vernon Carey (I'm leaning toward him over Gross lately) to be our starting RT in 2009. Heyer becomes the backup to Carey and Samuels, and Jansen becomes a jack of all trades backup across the line.

We trade down in the draft and get both Duke Robinson and Jonathan Luigs. By the start of the 2010 season, L to R we are Samuels, Robinson, Luigs, Rinehart, Carey.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;519327][B][SIZE="7"]Alex Mack C[/SIZE][/B] get him, whatever it takes. He's the smartest player in the draft and is a center which requires to make the calls in the line just like MLB. Portis can then pounded straight ahead instead of running to the outside.[/quote]

I agree! It may not be the standard thing to draft a center with a high pick, but how much is it worth to have a big ass, smart center play at a high level for years and years? This guy is a HOG, and barring injury, could anchor this line for a decade or more. This is a "special" player. This guy does not stop until the whistle blows and can handle the "Big Guys". He would help this line TREMENDOUSLY.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=Mattyk72;519301]I've readily admitted that he has lost a step. But if I had to choose between the lesser of two evils I would take Jansen. Heyer just stinks at run blocking and he still has a lot to work on in pass pro. Jansen at least has the experience and is still effective in the running game.[/quote]

I still don't understand.
Heyer beat out Jansen for RT.
As you state: Jansen has lost a step.
Older players like JJ don't improve they plateau or decline.
I think we should play Heyer and have him learn the ropes and watch him improve.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=30gut;519350]I still don't understand.
Heyer beat out Jansen for RT.
As you state: Jansen has lost a step.
Older players like JJ don't improve they plateau or decline.
I think we should play Heyer and have him learn the ropes and watch him improve.[/quote]

Not sure what's so hard to understand.

Heyer beat out JJ, then later on once JJ got the job back Heyer couldn't get back into the lineup. Neither of them are a long term solution. If I had to choose one to start going into next season, it would be Jansen.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=Mattyk72;519363]Not sure what's so hard to understand.

Heyer beat out JJ, then later on once JJ got the job back Heyer couldn't get back into the lineup. Neither of them are a long term solution. If I had to choose one to start going into next season, it would be Jansen.[/quote]

Why not draft an OL monster with our #13 and let JJ, Heyers or this FNG compete for this spot. The second best player is the backup.

We need to get our OL younger - starting this year.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

The answer you guys are looking for is Mr. Crabtree!

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

I wonder which players people would agree with us drafting at a position we do not need, if they dropped to us at 13. Would people be okay with Crabtree or Taylor Mays or the best QB prospect(Bradford/Stafford)? Most agree we still need a #2 WR, and SS isn't exactly stable with Horton, he was injured almost half the season, and there are those that don't believe in Campbell. For reference I'm in favor of trading down and drafting D-line, O-line, or linebackers but I would be okay if we drafted based on the best player available, excluding some positions (in my opinion TE, QB, secondary). O-line is the safest bet because they seem to be pretty easy to judge. You rarely here about first round offensive line busts.

Re: OG and OC are bigger needs than OT
 

[quote=53Fan;519346]I agree! It may not be the standard thing to draft a center with a high pick, but how much is it worth to have a big ass, smart center play at a high level for years and years? This guy is a HOG, and barring injury, could anchor this line for a decade or more. This is a "special" player. This guy does not stop until the whistle blows and can handle the "Big Guys". He would help this line TREMENDOUSLY.[/quote]

This is a good choice for number one. Do I think it will happen . . . . Nope.