Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/cerrato_wants_more_draft_picks.html?wprss=dcsportsbog]Cerrato Wants More Draft Picks - D.C. Sports Bog[/url]

Vinny wants more than 4 picks. He also wants youth and depth. Sounds good to me.

I also added another link on post #37 for more insight

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

Good to hear that, I wonder if they will shopping their #13th pick (I'm sure they could get 2 or 3 picks out of it). I guess the other option would be trading someone? I would say Moss or Rogers.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=44ever;522641][URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/cerrato_wants_more_draft_picks.html?wprss=dcsportsbog"]Cerrato Wants More Draft Picks - D.C. Sports Bog[/URL]

Vinny wants more than 4 picks. He also wants youth and depth. Sounds good to me.[/quote]

Let's see if he puts his money where his mouth is. Frankly I don't like the idea of a "GM" spouting off about his offseason wants/plans. If he's for real, good. But don't advertise it.

Funny quote from Vinny: "What you want to do, you want to keep building with young guys, so then you can continue to grow for a long time, not just sign a band-aid, make the playoffs for one year...." Umm, Jason Taylor anyone? Shut up VC.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=GMScud;522646]Let's see if he puts his money where his mouth is. Frankly I don't like the idea of a "GM" spouting off about his offseason wants/plans. If he's for real, good. But don't advertise it.

Funny quote from Vinny: "What you want to do, you want to keep building with young guys, so then you can continue to grow for a long time, not just sign a band-aid, make the playoffs for one year...." Umm, Jason Taylor anyone? Shut up VC.[/quote]

Yup, the pessimistic/hatred train is always on time.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=Ruhskins;522643]Good to hear that, I wonder if they will shopping their #13th pick (I'm sure they could get 2 or 3 picks out of it). I guess the other option would be trading someone? I would say Moss or Rogers.[/quote]

I don't think we will trade Moss. I like what he said about doing what fans have been wanting to see for years. I also like what he said about the importance of building a foundation of youth.

It certainly sounds like a shift in phylosopy in the right direction.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=44ever;522648]I don't think we will trade Moss. I like what he said about doing what fans have been wanting to see for years. I also like what he said about the importance of building a foundation of youth.

It certainly sounds like a shift in phylosopy in the right direction.[/quote]

Agreed, they will probably get more picks by trading down that #13. I think they can get a quality o-lineman late in the first round.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=GMScud;522646]Let's see if he puts his money where his mouth is. Frankly I don't like the idea of a "GM" spouting off about his offseason wants/plans. If he's for real, good. But don't advertise it.

Funny quote from Vinny: "What you want to do, you want to keep building with young guys, so then you can continue to grow for a long time, not just sign a band-aid, make the playoffs for one year...." Umm, Jason Taylor anyone? Shut up VC.[/quote]

I don't think he was advertising more than making a statement to the fans and what the future plans of the Skins will be. He didn't give up any specifics as to who he's going after or what positions he feels the need to fill.

In his last statement a few weeks ago he stated not seeing any glaring needs so I think he's keeping it cool while saying we hear you and we know.

He's done a good job of keeping his mouth shut. IMO

But like you said GMScud let's hope it's for real.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=Ruhskins;522647]Yup, the pessimistic/hatred train is always on time.[/quote]

When he gives me consistent, concrete reasons to be optimistic, I'll be a VC fan. Until then, blah.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=44ever;522650][B]I don't think he was advertising more than making a statement to the fans and what the future plans of the Skins will be. He didn't give up any specifics as to who he's going after or what positions he feels the need to fill. [/B]

[B]In his last statement a few weeks ago he stated not seeing any glaring needs so I think he's keeping it cool while saying we hear you and we know.[/B]

He's done a good job of keeping his mouth shut. IMO

But like you said GMScud let's hope it's for real.[/quote]

Good points, you're probably right. It's not like he's notorious for running his mouth. I don't know, I just have close to zero faith in the man as far as personnel.

Forgive me if I spit a little a venom in his direction.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=GMScud;522652]Good points, you're probably right. It's not like he's notorious for running his mouth. I don't know, I just have close to zero faith in the man as far as personnel.

Forgive me if I spit a little a venom in his direction.[/quote]

Hey, you have every right too Brother. I'm just reporting the news:)

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

I like alot of what he said, but I did not like the fact that he mentioned everyone, but Rhinehart.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=44ever;522641][URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/cerrato_wants_more_draft_picks.html?wprss=dcsportsbog"]Cerrato Wants More Draft Picks - D.C. Sports Bog[/URL]

Vinny wants more than 4 picks. He also wants youth and depth. Sounds good to me.[/quote]

Muhahahahah, yes it always sounds good, untill those draft picks become Malcolm Kelly, Fred Davis, Devin Thomas, and Justin Tryon. Jury's still out on all of them of course but right now my confidence in Vinny with more picks is very low. However if those picks become offensive and defensive lineman I will tip my hat to the man. Still though I would rather have him try to find a good player with an easier pick then trying to find value at the expense of our lines and such with later picks before the 5th round.

Either way if you held a gun to my head and said guess which positions the Redskins are going to draft with their first three picks (weather they be the 1,3, and 5 or whatever they turn into on draft day) I would guess we end up with a running back, outside linebacker, and cornerback followed by the same spiel of best player available. Really hope I get proved wrong.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=Ruhskins;522647]Yup, the pessimistic/hatred train is always on time.[/quote]


is it pessimistic or realistic? honestly, isn't he just callin'em as he see'em?
A ball is a ball is a ball. VC can talk about wanting to get younger (especially on the lines) but we haven't seen it materialize.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

Well shoot, I've been telling you all for weeks that was their goal this year-to get more picks. But him saying they'd like to trade down, when recently he said they wouldn't look to trade down is Vinny a) just covering his bases and not showing his hand, b) having changed his mind, or c) having decided against, for whatever reason, using Rogers and or Moss as trade bait.

Or it could be both-trade down and trade Rogers/Moss

It's fine that he says he wants more picks, but at what cost? Will he trade picks from 2010 and then say the same thing next January? And you also have to ask yourselves, well maybe next year is the better year to have draft picks anyway. If there's no CBA agreement a lot of guys who would otherwise be free agents won't be; and we've already seen a lot of good players opt to stay in college one more year. So there's a lot to consider.

And I would argue that we do have depth and we do have youth in many areas of the team. But the problem is we have a lot of late round players (Blades, Golston, Montgomery, Heyer, Alexander, Tryon, etc) who in many cases are probably destined to just be solid depth. But we're stuck putting them in starting roles when they're not really ready or probably even suited for it. Every team needs guys like that to lean on, but not to carry them. What we need are young stars, not young depth.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

Guys really... we've had one season where we know for sure that Vinny is calling the shots, or at least is calling the good majority. Last year's draft class needs another year or two before we can really judge it, and this year call me crazy but I think we'll see a commitment to getting some lineman in here.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=SmootSmack;522660]Well shoot, I've been telling you all for weeks that was their goal this year-to get more picks. But him saying they'd like to trade down, when recently he said they wouldn't look to trade down is Vinny a) just covering his bases and not showing his hand, b) having changed his mind, [B]or c) having decided against, for whatever reason, using Rogers and or Moss as trade bait. [/B]

Or it could be both-trade down and trade Rogers/Moss

It's fine that he says he wants more picks, but at what cost? Will he trade picks from 2010 and then say the same thing next January? And you also have to ask yourselves, well maybe next year is the better year to have draft picks anyway. If there's no CBA agreement a lot of guys who would otherwise be free agents won't be; and we've already seen a lot of good players opt to stay in college one more year. So there's a lot to consider.

And I would argue that we do have depth and we do have youth in many areas of the team. But the problem is we have a lot of late round players (Blades, Golston, Montgomery, Heyer, Alexander, Tryon, etc) who in many cases are probably destined to just be solid depth. But we're stuck putting them in starting roles when they're not really ready or probably even suited for it. Every team needs guys like that to lean on, but not to carry them. What we need are young stars, not young depth.[/quote]

Or perhaps he's not seeing much interest in those two or the value simply isn't there. That would be my best guess.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=Mattyk72;522661]Guys really... we've had one season where we know for sure that Vinny is calling the shots, or at least is calling the good majority. Last year's draft class needs another year or two before we can really judge it, and this year call me crazy but I think we'll see a commitment to getting some lineman in here.[/quote]

I disagree. I think we should judge draft picks within a week of when they were drafted. It's only logical

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=Mattyk72;522662]Or perhaps he's not seeing much interest in those two or the value simply isn't there. That would be my best guess.[/quote]

Yeah possibly, that's why I threw in that "for whatever reason"

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=SmootSmack;522660]Well shoot, I've been telling you all for weeks that was their goal this year-to get more picks. But him saying they'd like to trade down, when recently he said they wouldn't look to trade down is Vinny a) just covering his bases and not showing his hand, b) having changed his mind, or c) having decided against, for whatever reason, using Rogers and or Moss as trade bait.

Or it could be both-trade down and trade Rogers/Moss

It's fine that he says he wants more picks, but at what cost? [B]Will he trade picks from 2010 and then say the same thing next January?[/B] And you also have to ask yourselves, well maybe next year is the better year to have draft picks anyway. If there's no CBA agreement a lot of guys who would otherwise be free agents won't be; and we've already seen a lot of good players opt to stay in college one more year. So there's a lot to consider.

And I would argue that we do have depth and we do have youth in many areas of the team. But the problem is we have a lot of late round players (Blades, Golston, Montgomery, Heyer, Alexander, Tryon, etc) who in many cases are probably destined to just be solid depth. But we're stuck putting them in starting roles when they're not really ready or probably even suited for it. Every team needs guys like that to lean on, but not to carry them. What we need are young stars, not young depth.[/quote]

Maybe every year he will trade next years picks to select players in this years draft. If he does it every year, we really wouldnt be losing anything.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=Mattyk72;522661]Guys really... we've had one season where we know for sure that Vinny is calling the shots, or at least is calling the good majority. Last year's draft class needs another year or two before we can really judge it, and this year call me crazy but I think we'll see a commitment to getting some lineman in here.[/quote]

Matt, How do you remain so patient & positive in regards to this front office? I have loved this team pretty much since birth and will continue to love it unconditionaly...but I just don't have one ounce of patience left for a front office that involves Vinny. I mean the Chiefs just got Piolli and are talking about Mike Shannahan as coach and we are sitting here with Vinny who I doubt could get a job with any other team in the league.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

Did they get Shanahan? Has Pioli proven he can be successful without Belichick? I mean props to the Patriots for getting things done, but there are several things they've done similar to the Redskins-not playing draft picks their rookie year, going after older vets that have panned out for them where they haven't as much for us

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=SmootSmack;522673]Did they get Shanahan? Has Pioli proven he can be successful without Belichick? I mean props to the Patriots for getting things done, but there are several things they've done similar to the Redskins-not playing draft picks their rookie year, going after older vets that have panned out for them where they haven't as much for us[/quote]

Your right maybe Pioli won't be any good, but maybe he will be. Who knows. I am just done with Vinny...I don't care if his involvement in the decisions for the last 10 years has been 25% or 90%...other then Marty's year he has been involved on some level and it hasn't worked out. I am not saying last years draft picks are busts yet...it goes much deeper then that...I don't believe he ever did anything to merrit the promotion in the first place.

Let me ask you a simple question since you are much more connected than any of us. Do you believe the redskins current front office structure is respected around the NFL? I don't believe it is and that bothers me. I remember a time when the Redskins were among the most respected organizations in sports and I don't feel we are anymore and that bothers me almost as much as the losses.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;522658]Muhahahahah, yes it always sounds good, untill those draft picks become Malcolm Kelly, Fred Davis, Devin Thomas, and Justin Tryon. Jury's still out on all of them of course but right now my confidence in Vinny with more picks is very low. However if those picks become offensive and defensive lineman I will tip my hat to the man. Still though I would rather have him try to find a good player with an easier pick then trying to find value at the expense of our lines and such with later picks before the 5th round.

Either way if you held a gun to my head and said guess which positions the Redskins are going to draft with their first three picks (weather they be the 1,3, and 5 or whatever they turn into on draft day) I would guess we end up with a running back, outside linebacker, and cornerback followed by the same spiel of best player available. Really hope I get proved wrong.[/quote]

Dude your acting like Thomas, Kelly and Davis were all bad picks. I think this coming season we will see what they are capable of. You can't say as of right now they were a bust.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=WaldSkins;522667]Maybe every year he will trade next years picks to select players in this years draft. If he does it every year, we really wouldnt be losing anything.[/quote]

Huh? How do you figure? If we trade '10 picks for more '09 picks, how can we repeat the behavior next year if we have no picks to work with??

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=WaldSkins;522667]Maybe every year he will trade next years picks to select players in this years draft. If he does it every year, we really wouldnt be losing anything.[/quote]

Actually Waldskins - from what I understand if you trade picks in later years for the current draft you lose value - for example if you wanted another teams 1st round pick this year and were willing to trade future picks - the way the point system works would not be 1 for 1, but rather the team trading the future pick (in this case the Skins) would have to give up more picks to complete the deal (like a 1st and a 4th). Here is a link and qoute to what I am referring to:

[URL="http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Insider/2004/TradeValue.htm"]NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly[/URL]
[quote]
"In instances where next year’s draft picks are traded, teams generally divide the league into quadrants, ranking how they expect a team to finish next year. If the Chargers were to deal with the Eagles, who are expected by many to finish in the top eight next year after an active offseason, San Diego could expect a 2005 first-round pick belonging to Philadelphia to be worth 680-800 points. If the Chargers were considering a trade with the 49ers, who are expected to finish in the bottom eight after depleting their roster of much of its veteran talent to better position the team financially for the future, they could expect to receive value ranging from 1,400 to 3,000 points. However, because there is so much parity in the league and it's difficult to predict where a club will finish, some teams generally expect to receive about 1,000 points in exchange for a future first-round pick from a bad team and 750 from a contender. Also, in any trade involving draft choices in both the current year and a future year, most teams will value, say, a fourth-round pick in the current draft as being worth a third-rounder in next year's draft — the team receiving the future pick moving up a round in return for having to wait an extra year to exercise its pick.[/quote]So basically using this methodolgy if the Skins keep trading future picks they are mortgaging their future even more....

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

The structure? Yeah, I mean it's not as uncommon as a lot of people think to have that structure. The people? Well let's see (best as I have gathered)

Eric Schaeffer-Definitely respected
Morocco Brown/Scott Campbell-yes, but not really known
Scouts-mostly considered decent, but no particularly special skills. No one stands out as a keen eye for uncovered can't miss talent
Cerrato-not so much as a person, more or less as an executive

But it just seems that more often than not we automatically assume than any move we make is awful and any move any other team makes is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Our philosophy sucks, while everyone else's is awesome...even when it's the same philosophy.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

Okay thanks...nice to know we have at least some respected people.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

One other thing...I recognize that other teams make the same exact mistakes that the redskins make. The only difference is that in other organizations, after 2 or 3 years of not winning people get fired and they start over. In Washington we have one person that seems to always be immune from responsibility.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=Ruhskins;522643]Good to hear that, I wonder if they will shopping their #13th pick (I'm sure they could get 2 or 3 picks out of it). I guess the other option would be trading someone? I would say Moss or Rogers.[/quote]

Trading Moss wouldn't be the best idea since he's our #1 receiver, and none of the 3 rookies have proven nothin yet. As for Rogers, I think we still need him. We'll re-sign hall...he's a great zone corner, and if we can draft Raji and start forcing more 3rd and longs, we can play zone more and let Hall come up with a few balls. Also, if we trade Rogers, who is our #2 CB? com'on now, they are NOT going anywhere

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;522681]Dude your acting like Thomas, Kelly and Davis were all bad picks. I think this coming season we will see what they are capable of. You can't say as of right now they were a bust.[/quote]

BRO YOU GOT SOMETHING TO SAY TO ME THEN JUST SAY IT. Oh wait you did. lol. Anyway the thing I was trying draw attention to was the overkill on recievers with high picks. Despite the fact that among other things they could easily have gotten a nice number 2 tight end in 2007 with Ben Patrick (projected 3rd round by Mike Mayock), however we decided to go after Jordan Palmer only to cut him. All the while Patrick is providing decent production for Arizona including that nice two point conversion against the Eagles (Keep in mind the guy averages only 14.5 ypg but thats definately more then we got from Davis).

However among other things I do very much agree that the jury is still out. My fear is that as you go down the draft the number of quality tackles decreases at a much quicker rate. Very rarely will you see a guy like Joe Staley last as long as he did, and I wouldn't bank on finding the next Marcus McNeil or Tony Ugoh in the second round.

Right now all I want is for the team to sit pretty at 13 and take Michael Oher or BJ Rali. Preferably Oher because we need more help at Tackle and Tackles usually have an easier time coming in and contributing. Then follow that up with the best available guard or center. Find a quality depth guy in the 5th thats capable of collapsing the pocket, and then look for a special teams guy that might eventually become a servicealbe OLB.

To me that would be a wonderful draft.

Of course as said before I will not be surprised to see the team with a new running back, outside linebacker, and corner come draft day.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

We need another running back and outside linebacker though. OLB should probably be one of our first two picks, running back should come later.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

More picks seem a luxury at this point. We need a franchise tackle to solidify the other side of the line (opposite Samuels) and we're more likely, maybe far more likely, to get that @ 13 than bottom of the first or into the second round. What we did last year seemed ok and of course we have to wait and see how our top three picks develop, but trading away your 1st round talent opportunity year after year is a recipe for longterm mediocrity IMHO. It can't just be about grabbing more youth... top talent is necessary to be a great team.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=The Goat;522708]More picks seem a luxury at this point. We need a franchise tackle to solidify the other side of the line (opposite Samuels) and we're more likely, maybe far more likely, to get that @ 13 than bottom of the first or into the second round. What we did last year seemed ok and of course we have to wait and see how our top three picks develop, but trading away your 1st round talent opportunity year after year is a recipe for longterm mediocrity IMHO. It can't just be about grabbing more youth... top talent is necessary to be a great team.[/quote]

That's a good point and I hope we don't trade down just for the sake of trading down. If there's an impact player available I think that's too valuable to pass up at #13. Especially if we're talking about a right tackle that can hold things down for the next 10 years.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=The Goat;522708]More picks seem a luxury at this point. We need a franchise tackle to solidify the other side of the line (opposite Samuels) and we're more likely, maybe far more likely, to get that @ 13 than bottom of the first or into the second round. What we did last year seemed ok and of course we have to wait and see how our top three picks develop, but trading away your 1st round talent opportunity year after year is a recipe for longterm mediocrity IMHO. [B]It can't just be about grabbing more youth... top talent is necessary to be a great team[/B].[/quote]

Word (see the last paragraph of post #14). Last year we had the 21st pick in the draft, this year we're 8 spots higher. That's potentially a huge difference in terms of talent.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[quote=SmootSmack;522711]Word (see the last paragraph of post #14). Last year we had the 21st pick in the draft, this year we're 8 spots higher. [B]That's potentially a huge difference in terms of talent.[/B][/quote]

Hopefully. I struggle in knowing how big the difference might be (even in the same year) because I don't follow college football, but if memory serves I believe the 3 offensive tackles taken in the first 16 picks started all year for their teams... beyond there were no consistent starters. Again going off hearsay cause I don't follow college, this draft seems unusually deep w/ o-line talent so if there's a standout OLB @ 13 great take him but the next pick really has to be o-line and a legit starter rather than a project.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

A quick reply to the naysayers that I was calling out. VC finally says something that us the fans are clamoring, and y'all sh!t on him for that. I'm not telling you all to change your opinion on the front office, but this crap on biting VC's head off for every fart he takes is getting old.

Ok now to the serious discussion. I agree that we shouldn't trade down for the sake of trading down. However if a particular player is not available at 13th and if it seems that we can find value in the vicinity of the 20s along with the possibility of getting some more picks, then I would say go for it.

I do agree that our 13th pick may give us better talent that last year's 21st. So hopefully we can pick up a stud of a player that can fulfill any of our needs.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

[url=http://www.examiner.com/x-450-Washington-Redskins-Examiner~y2009m1d18-Redskins-2008-part-2-Stumbling-through-the-draft]Washington Redskins Examiner: Redskins 2008 part 2: Stumbling through the draft[/url]

Regardless if FO didn't learn from their mistakes they may be forced to change their ways anyway

A breif summery of past mistakes and the price to pay

The picture titled: (do these guys look like they know what they are doing) is pretty funny

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

Really Vinny?? Wow...shocker. If you want more picks then keep the ones you have! This guy is such a tool.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

Great to hear this, but a GM should start thinking about the draft a year or two in advance...January is a little late.

Re: Cerrato wants more draft picks
 

Let me offer a couple of POSITIVE suggestions for how the Skins might get more draft picks for 2009:

1. Don't trade up on draft day; trade down if you do any trading at all.

2. If any other team gives an offer sheet to a restricted free agent, take the draft picks and let the RFA go.

3. If you get any compensatory picks in the draft, don't waste them in trading scenarios.

4. If any team approaches the Skins wanting to trade for just about any player on the roster, listen carefully and try to get as many draft picks as possible in the deal. There shouldn't be more than a half-dozen "untouchable" players on the team [I][Remember, they missed the playoffs after all so the roster isn't exactly overloaded with top-shelf talent.][/I]

5. [B]MOST IMPORTANTLY:[/B] When considering trades where you get picks for players given the needs of the team in 2009, it is BETTER to get two second round picks than one first round pick. It might even be better to get a second and a third than a single first round pick.


All of this advice works ON THE ASSUMPTION that the scouts have done their job well and the people who have designed the draft board have done their job well AND the "football novices" in the organization are busy off doing other chores. :bdh: