Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/around_the_nfl/post/Taylor-to-return-to-Washington;_ylt=AovDxki_OCfSNHDCKAS0O_VDubYF?urn=nfl,143118]Taylor to return to Washington - Around the NFL - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Worst FO move of the early off-season IMHO, not just our FO but for all 32 franchises...

Oh well, here's hoping Jason Taylor has the best season of his career at age 34.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=The Goat;528881][url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/around_the_nfl/post/Taylor-to-return-to-Washington;_ylt=AovDxki_OCfSNHDCKAS0O_VDubYF?urn=nfl,143118]Taylor to return to Washington - Around the NFL - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Worst FO move of the early off-season IMHO, not just our FO but for all 32 franchises...

Oh well, here's hoping Jason Taylor has the best season of his career at age 34.[/quote]

Nice scoop Goat. Im actually happy to hear it. Maybe we should play him and keep him primarily right defensive end since thats his home. And hope he goes out like a mad dog. I think he will.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=44ever;528882]Nice scoop Goat. Im actually happy to hear it. Maybe we should play him and keep him primarily right defensive end since thats his home. And hope he goes out like a mad dog. I think he will.[/quote]

[I]If[/I] we keep him at RDE then yeah this could work well. But what the hell do we do w/ Carter then? He's just not big and physical enough to play LDE... Evans is the better option there. My fear is Taylor moves in the WLB spot and we're going to see our defense fall-off significantly this season.

Damnit!!! I hope Danny and Vinny know what they're doing but this looks an awful lot like saving face rather than finding a player who fits our system for a reasonable salary.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

I'm not ready to write this guy off yet. As I said in another thread, he suffered a life threatening injury and was asked to play out of position (while injured). Let's see what he can do when healthy...It's not like we have any other options of a replacement outside of the draft. Teams are locking up their blue chip defensive linemen and with good reason.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=The Goat;528883][I]If[/I] we keep him at RDE then yeah this could work well. [B]But what the hell do we do w/ Carter then[/B]? He's just not big and physical enough to play LDE... Evans is the better option there. My fear is Taylor moves in the WLB spot and we're going to see our defense fall-off significantly this season.

Damnit!!! I hope Danny and Vinny know what they're doing but this looks an awful lot like saving face rather than finding a player who fits our system for a reasonable salary.[/quote]

I think they want their moneys worth. And if JT is looking to break into acting he know he needs lots of exposure. And one way to get it is making the highlights. As far as Carter, that is a question better suited for SmootSmack as I honestly dont know. What I do know is if we want "Jason Taylor" we better let him play his position or he means nothing.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528884]I'm not ready to write this guy off yet. As I said in another thread, he suffered a life threatening injury and was asked to play out of position (while injured). Let's see what he can do when healthy...It's not like we have any other options of a replacement outside of the draft. Teams are locking up their blue chip defensive linemen and with good reason.[/quote]

What is he replacing though (is the $8 million question)? We just extended AC who is really only suited to play RDE... Carter was an OLB earlier in his career and was ineffective and has openly said he doesn't like playing there. I think we should all be able to agree at least that Taylor is a very poor fit at LDE because he's not a run-stopper so he's not "replacing" anyone there. And there's not a lot of evidence that he'll make a great WLB when we could 1) sign a value FA like Boley to step in or 2) draft a promising OLB in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round. I say w/ sincerity i hope i'm wrong, i hope JT proves me wrong and i'll eat crow happily, but this just looks like a poor decision. Don't even get me started on the fact that not even restructuring him severely limits what we can do to help the team in FA now. :soapbox:

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

I would love to scream, holler, and yell, but I am becoming numb to incompetent moves like this. Taylor has done absolutely nothing to deserve this. He cant stop the run, he failed to apply pressure, and all without a restructure. I would love to say this move stuns me stuns me, but given this front office, ummm, nope, not at all. A prime example of why the Redskins are the way they are the past ten years.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=44ever;528885]I think they want their moneys worth. And if JT is looking to break into acting he know he needs lots of exposure. And one way to get it is making the highlights. [B]As far as Carter, that is a question better suited for SmootSmack as I honestly dont know.[/B] What I do know is if we want "Jason Taylor" we better let him play his position or he means nothing.[/quote]

I highly anticipate hearing the rationalizations for this move...

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

I don't like it but worst move of the entire offseason? That's being a bit dramatic.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that he was seriously injured?? Think about the calf muscle and how vital it would be to a defensive end. He's still only a couple seasons removed from being the NFL Defensive MVP. I'm not saying he's worth 8M, but we don't have any other options right now. If you think a guy like Boley would solve our run-D woes, your sadly mistaken.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=The Goat;528888]I highly anticipate hearing the rationalizations for this move...[/quote]

They may be in talks with a OLB or LDE who knows.

JT will stop the run this season as well as get sacks if he is allowed to play his position. Thats almost for sure. I wish I was more of an expert on which players are versitile to play alternate positions but Im not. I really am looking forward to Smoots Input on this.

There has to be a way to make this work. I hope.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Mattyk72;528889]I don't like it but worst move of the entire offseason? That's being a bit dramatic.[/quote]

I said the early off-season Matty... again I would like nothing better than to start a thread 10 mo from now titled "I was totally wrong when..."

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=The Goat;528893]I said the early off-season Matty... again I would like nothing better than to start a thread 10 mo from now titled "I was totally wrong when..."[/quote]

Regardless, I would still give the worst move to the Bungals for franchising their kicker. There are probably others too that one is just off the top of my head.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

If you guys had to keep one player- either Springs or Taylor with their current cap figures, which one would you keep and why?

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528890]Why is everyone ignoring the fact that he was seriously injured?? Think about the calf muscle and how vital it would be to a defensive end. He's still only a couple seasons removed from being the NFL Defensive MVP. I'm not saying he's worth 8M, but we don't have any other options right now. If you think a guy like Boley would solve our run-D woes, your sadly mistaken.[/quote]

I agree DL, If JT comes out 100% we could not have done better in the FA or the Draft. He should not have to restructure and Im glad he did'nt. I want a $8M JT type performance. Not a player with a restructured mentality. That would not test his character IMO.

I'm excited he's back. Dont hate me Goat ;)

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

Hey 44! we agree on something! right on.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528897]Hey 44! we agree on something! right on.[/quote]

Yeah, I just hope we don't look like two chumps next season. Oh well at least we'll agree we were wrong:)

I think we are right about JT. But I understand the concern from Goat and some of the others who don't like the move.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

F..., I would rather we kept MW. @ 8.5m, JT is sodomising this franchise. Great move Vinny, its becoming typical Redskins offseason moves. Well, this has certainly soured the beginning of what is already a crummy week.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

I'm glad he didn't restructure. If he did, it would mean spreading his cap numbers out over the next few seasons. If a new CBA is reached, that would mean his numbers would count against us when he won't even be on the team. No thanks. We've done enough of spreading out contracts of older players with our "restructuring."

I say we experiment with Andre Carter at full time LDE, and put Taylor where he has excelled in the past - RDE. It's not like Carter dominated from the right side last year. Of course if that happens, we'll need a damn good Will LB to play behind Taylor for run support.

In light of this decision by Vinny and the gang, I expect Shawn Springs to be gone, especially since we're in full-on negotiations with D.Hall. I also think IF Phillip Daniels is still in the teams plans even after he hits the FA market, he'll be playing for the vet minimum.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Hamoskinz;528900]F..., I would rather we kept MW. @ 8.5m, JT is [B]sodomising[/B] this franchise. Great move Vinny, its becoming typical Redskins offseason moves. Well, this has certainly soured the beginning of what is already a crummy week.[/quote]

Not nessecary man.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=GMScud;528902]I'm glad he didn't restructure. If he did, it would mean spreading his cap numbers out over the next few seasons. If a new CBA is reached, that would mean his numbers would count against us when he won't even be on the team. No thanks. We've done enough of spreading out contracts of older players with our "restructuring."

II say we experiment with Andre Carter at full time LDE, and put Taylor where he has excelled in the past - RDE.t's not like Carter dominated from the right side last year. Of course if that happens, we'll need a damn good Will LB to play behind Taylor for run support.

In light of this decision by Vinny and the gang, I expect Shawn Springs to be gone, especially since we're in full-on negotiations with D.Hall. I also think IF Phillip Daniels is still in the teams plans even after he hits the FA market, he'll be playing for the vet minimum.[/quote]

I like that idea GMScud

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

People act as though it's Jason Taylor's fault that were in cap hell. I don't know of any pro bowler that would restructure his deal after one injury riddled season. Thats a ridiculous notion. Also, we gave up a 2nd and 5th round pick, let's at least give this deal a chance to pan out.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=GMScud;528902]I'm glad he didn't restructure. If he did, it would mean spreading his cap numbers out over the next few seasons. If a new CBA is reached, that would mean his numbers would count against us when he won't even be on the team. No thanks. We've done enough of spreading out contracts of older players with our "restructuring."

I say we experiment with Andre Carter at full time LDE, and put Taylor where he has excelled in the past - RDE. It's not like Carter dominated from the right side last year. Of course if that happens, we'll need a damn good Will LB to play behind Taylor for run support.

In light of this decision by Vinny and the gang, I expect Shawn Springs to be gone, especially since we're in full-on negotiations with D.Hall. I also think IF Phillip Daniels is still in the teams plans even after he hits the FA market, he'll be playing for the vet minimum.[/quote]

Good points GMScud, I don't like this decision at all, but it is the lesser of two evils. Let's hope Taylor sees this as an incentive to play well next season, and I just don't believe he would mail it as some people have suggested.

Has anyone seen this story anywhere but in Yahoo? Not that I don't trust them, but I just checked PFT, Redskins Insider, Adam Schefter's blog and ESPN rumors and none of them had a story about this.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

Taylor is unfortunately looking more like a Deion Sanders than a London Fletcher, in terms of being an older player who failed to live up to his past pedigree. BUT, I for one have been very impressed with Taylor's apparent cognizance of his underperformance this past season. Unlike other guys who have seemed content to not only skate by on their reputation, but have seemed to be completely oblivious to having failed to live up to expectations, Taylor sounds like he is coming back next year with something to prove.

And I kind of think he's going to have one final big season.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=djnemo65;528915]Taylor is unfortunately looking more like a Deion Sanders than a London Fletcher, in terms of being an older player who failed to live up to his past pedigree. BUT, I for one have been very impressed with Taylor's apparent cognizance of his underperformance this past season. Unlike other guys who have seemed content to not only skate by on their reputation, but have seemed to be completely oblivious to having failed to live up to expectations, [B]Taylor sounds like he is coming back next year with something to prove.

And I kind of think he's going to have one final big season[/B].[/quote]

My thoughts exactly dj65

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

How do the Skins plan on being active in free agency with that 8 million dollar chunk locking up our cap space?

I suppose since our 2nd round draft pick won't be playing with us this season we might as well have his compensation on field this year.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;528921][B]How do the Skins plan on being active in free agency with that 8 million dollar chunk locking up our cap space? [/B]

I suppose since our 2nd round draft pick won't be playing with us this season we might as well have his compensation on field this year.[/quote]

It starts with releasing Shawn Springs, and I doubt we'll have much if any of Philip Daniels $2.2M number on our ledger either.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

Its great you guys are confident/hoping JT will have a great year in the B'n'G uniform. I am ticked off at what we gave up to get him and what we got instead. In between the picks we gave up and the money we gave him for the production we got, he needs to play every game like that Eagles game to see us getting any benefit from the trade.

I am hoping that with his leg being 100%, he will finally get to beat RTs on a regular basis cause i am sick of watching him getting stood up @ the line, can't push and no speed to rush the outside.

Sorry mates, I'm trying to let out some steam over this JT debacle and how we managed to give away our 2nd pick which could've addressed one of our glaring needs.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

wow im pissed, one change and were still keeping and relying on the old vets thinking that their gonna give us a year like when they were in their 6th year or something...Taylor needs to take a pay cut or be cut!

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;528921]How do the Skins plan on being active in free agency with that 8 million dollar chunk locking up our cap space?

I suppose since our 2nd round draft pick won't be playing with us this season we might as well have his compensation on field this year.[/quote]

Well Skinny dont forget this news of Taylor comes just 2 days after the release of M Washington. The Redskins are expected to save in the ballpark of $4 million following the release of SLB Marcus Washington on Friday. Now we know why.

As GMScud said Springs is next. Not sure of what his cap savings is. Maybe Daniels as well.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=GMScud;528902]I'm glad he didn't restructure. If he did, it would mean spreading his cap numbers out over the next few seasons. If a new CBA is reached, that would mean his numbers would count against us when he won't even be on the team. No thanks. We've done enough of spreading out contracts of older players with our "restructuring."

[B]I say we experiment with Andre Carter at full time LDE, and put Taylor where he has excelled in the past - RDE. It's not like Carter dominated from the right side last year. Of course if that happens, we'll need a damn good Will LB to play behind Taylor for run support.
[/B]
In light of this decision by Vinny and the gang, I expect Shawn Springs to be gone, especially since we're in full-on negotiations with D.Hall. I also think IF Phillip Daniels is still in the teams plans even after he hits the FA market, he'll be playing for the vet minimum.[/quote]

I also think this makes the most sense but have big concerns. First off it makes better sense than what Blache did last year - JT @ LDE and AC @ RDE - because Carter is the heavier and arguably stouter of the two, albeit not by much. Still i won't be at all comfortable w/ Carter as the only run-stopping option there i.e. i think we need Evans or Daniels to play there on obvious running downs and goal line situations. Paying JT the full 8 mill makes it less likely we keep Evans agreed? Second we will need monster performances from the entire LB corp, which is part of what bothers me here... we haven't addressed LB here at all but just kept another DE starter.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Hamoskinz;528923][QUOTE]Its great you guys are confident/hoping JT will have a great year in the B'n'G uniform. I am ticked off at what we gave up to get him and what we got instead.[/quote]
So by your standards, a player should get one year to prove himself to a franchise, despite injury.
[quote]In between the picks we gave up and the money we gave him for the production we got, he needs to play every game like that Eagles game to see us getting any benefit from the trade.[/quote]
Your basically saying that Taylor needs to have 32 sacks next season to justify the picks and the money. Okay.
[quote]I am hoping that with his leg being 100%, he will finally get to beat RTs on a regular basis cause i am sick of watching him getting stood up @ the line, can't push and no speed to rush the outside.[/quote]
I guess your being slightly optomistic, even though everyone else is confident/hoping that he will have a good year.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

I hope JT has a good year because I'm a Redskin fan and to do otherwise would be counter-productive.......but 8mil is B.S.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

I think back to the Eagles game late in the season when the guy had two sacks, one of which forced a fumble which London Fletcher recovered and led to a touchdown. That was a flash of what he can do for us when healthy.

I would have liked to see the cap number come down, but I'm pretty excited to see what he can do for us when healthy.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=44ever;528925]Well Skinny dont forget this news of Taylor comes just 2 days after the release of M Washington. The Redskins are expected to save in the ballpark of $4 million following the release of SLB Marcus Washington on Friday. Now we know why.

As GMScud said Springs is next. Not sure of what his cap savings is. Maybe Daniels as well.[/quote]

With releasing Marcus we're still at 4 million over the cap. I don't know how much we'll save by cutting Springs but is that necessarily a good thing? If Springs is cut and we aren't able to sign Hall we'll just have Rogers as CB.

Also if we sign Hall how much space would we really have available after that?

Releasing Springs may sound like a solution to the cap space but I'm not sure I'm all gung ho for it.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;528942][B]With releasing Marcus we're still at 4 million over the cap.[/B] I don't know how much we'll save by cutting Springs but is that necessarily a good thing? If Springs is cut and we aren't able to sign Hall we'll just have Rogers as CB.

Also if we sign Hall how much space would we really have available after that?

Releasing Springs may sound like a solution to the cap space but I'm not sure I'm all gung ho for it.[/quote]

No, we're 3.3 million under the cap after releasing Marcus.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Schneed10;528943]No, we're 3.3 million under the cap after releasing Marcus.[/quote]
Does that include Daniels savings.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Schneed10;528943]No, we're 3.3 million under the cap after releasing Marcus.[/quote]

My bad ...disregard then. I thought I caught an article that said we we're still over by 4M.

Thanks for the heads up.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;528945]Does that include Daniels savings.[/quote]

No it doesn't. Once his contract voids we'll save another $2.3 million or so, taking us from $3.3 million in space to $5.6 million in space.

Of course it's quite possible we turn right around and sign him again, but for less.

Re: Taylor to Return w/o Restructure or Paycut
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;528946]My bad ...disregard then. I thought I caught an article that said we we're still over by 4M.

Thanks for the heads up.[/quote]

I saw an ESPN article saying something similar a few days ago, I think it was Clayton. Yeah that's way off. He's probably pulling that from outdated information (we were about $4 million over the cap for a good part of January), or the source for his accounting is flat out poor.