Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

Have you ever thought that you could have done a better job than the Skins Front Office in drafting players? I know I have. I also know that my thinking so is ridiculous but I like to play GM once in a while. So, recently, I went back a few years and looked at the players that I would have picked for the Skins in the first two rounds of the 2003-2008 NFL Drafts. I’m talking about the players that I would have taken at the time of each draft and not after the fact.

I thought it might be interesting to hear from others, as well, about which players they would have taken back then. If you’d like to participate, please tell the truth about what you wanted the Skins to do when they were on the clock with their 1st and/or 2nd Round picks back then. Here’s what I would have done at the time, based on my memory of the events.

2003 – 2nd Round (No 1st Round pick)
Skins pick: Taylor Jacobs
My pick: Anquan Boldin

This pick is actually what got me thinking about comparing the Skins’ draft to what mine would have been. That’s because I told everyone who would listen before this draft that Anquan Boldin was the best WR in the draft – bar none. So, for me this pick in the 2nd Round was a no-brainer.

2004 – 1st Round (No 2nd Round pick)
Skins pick: Sean Taylor
My pick: Kellen Winslow

Yeah, I admit that I wanted Winslow. He was the most exciting TE I had seen in a long time. If the Skins had taken Winslow, we wouldn’t have had either Sean Taylor or Chris Cooley (the Skins traded up to draft him in, I think, the 3rd Round). Getting both Taylor and Cooley was brilliant work by the Skins FO.

2005 – 1st Round (Again, no 2nd Round pick)
Skins pick: Carlos Rogers
My pick: Carlos Rogers

I actually wanted Antrel Rolle, but he was picked by the Cards just before our turn. I think Carlos turned out to be the better player of the two.

The Skins made a trade with Denver in 2005 for the 24th pick which they used to draft Jason Campbell. That trade never even crossed my mind.

2006 – 1st Round (#23)
Skins pick: None
My pick: Davin Joseph, G, Oklahoma

Since I wouldn’t have thought to make the JC deal in 2005, we would have had a first round pick which I would have used on Joseph, who was available at #23. Tampa Bay took him later in the 1st Round that year and he has been the starter at RG for them since early in his rookie year. Not a bad pick, if I say so myself.

2006 – 2nd Round
Skins pick: Rocky McIntosh
My pick: Rocky McIntosh

I really wanted Demeco Ryans here, but he was picked two players before we drafted.

2007 – 1st Round (Guess what? Right, no 2nd Rounder.)
Skins pick: Laron Landry
My pick: Adrian Peterson

I truly believed that Peterson was the best player in the entire draft. I would have taken him in a heartbeat, even though we had CP. They could have shared the duties for one season and then we could have traded one of them for a king’s ransom.

2008 – 1st Round
Skins pick: Traded down.
My pick: Kenny Phillips, FS, Miami

Sadly, we would have needed a safety.

2008 – 2nd Round
Skins picks: The Three Amigos
My pick: Limas Sweed, WR, Texas

He was the best available player, IMO.

So, what would we look like now with these players:

Boldin, Winslow, Joseph, Peterson, Phillips, and Sweed.

And without these players:

Campbell, Cooley, Landry, Thomas, Kelly, and Davis.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;540685]Have you ever thought that you could have done a better job than the Skins Front Office in drafting players? I know I have. I also know that my thinking so is ridiculous but I like to play GM once in a while. So, recently, I went back a few years and looked at the players that I would have picked for the Skins in the first two rounds of the 2003-2008 NFL Drafts. I’m talking about the players that I would have taken at the time of each draft and not after the fact.

I thought it might be interesting to hear from others, as well, about which players they would have taken back then. If you’d like to participate, please tell the truth about what you wanted the Skins to do when they were on the clock with their 1st and/or 2nd Round picks back then. Here’s what I would have done at the time, based on my memory of the events.

2003 – 2nd Round (No 1st Round pick)
Skins pick: Taylor Jacobs
My pick: Anquan Boldin

This pick is actually what got me thinking about comparing the Skins’ draft to what mine would have been. That’s because I told everyone who would listen before this draft that Anquan Boldin was the best WR in the draft – bar none. So, for me this pick in the 2nd Round was a no-brainer.

2004 – 1st Round (No 2nd Round pick)
Skins pick: Sean Taylor
My pick: Kellen Winslow

Yeah, I admit that I wanted Winslow. He was the most exciting TE I had seen in a long time. If the Skins had taken Winslow, we wouldn’t have had either Sean Taylor or Chris Cooley (the Skins traded up to draft him in, I think, the 3rd Round). Getting both Taylor and Cooley was brilliant work by the Skins FO.

2005 – 1st Round (Again, no 2nd Round pick)
Skins pick: Carlos Rogers
My pick: Carlos Rogers

I actually wanted Antrel Rolle, but he was picked by the Cards just before our turn. I think Carlos turned out to be the better player of the two.

The Skins made a trade with Denver in 2005 for the 24th pick which they used to draft Jason Campbell. That trade never even crossed my mind.

2006 – 1st Round (#23)
Skins pick: None
My pick: Davin Joseph, G, Oklahoma

Since I wouldn’t have thought to make the JC deal in 2005, we would have had a first round pick which I would have used on Joseph, who was available at #23. Tampa Bay took him later in the 1st Round that year and he has been the starter at RG for them since early in his rookie year. Not a bad pick, if I say so myself.

2006 – 2nd Round
Skins pick: Rocky McIntosh
My pick: Rocky McIntosh

I really wanted Demeco Ryans here, but he was picked two players before we drafted.

2007 – 1st Round (Guess what? Right, no 2nd Rounder.)
Skins pick: Laron Landry
My pick: Adrian Peterson

I truly believed that Peterson was the best player in the entire draft. I would have taken him in a heartbeat, even though we had CP. They could have shared the duties for one season and then we could have traded one of them for a king’s ransom.

2008 – 1st Round
Skins pick: Traded down.
My pick: Kenny Phillips, FS, Miami

Sadly, we would have needed a safety.

20[B][/B]08 – 2nd Round
Skins picks: The Three Amigos
My pick: Limas Sweed, WR, Texas

He was the best available player, IMO.

So, what would we look like now with these players:

Boldin, Winslow, Joseph, Peterson, Phillips, and Sweed.

[B]And without these players:

Campbell, Cooley, Landry, Thomas, Kelly, and Davis.[/quote][/B]

Your missing Sean Taylor here

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

Kudos for putting your thoughts out there, I doubt I could break down mine at all. (I do remember what I had for breakfast, but only cuz it's the same every M-F)

As for yours vs. the skins, from what I see, you have no QB picked, so who would be playing that position? You have to account for that (like you accounted for the safety pick). Also, the FO picks all look very solid (your selection of Anquoin Boldin vs Tyler Jacobs is the one pure FO drop).
Peterson vs Landry, I think the FO's was the better choice for the team. Landry was an excellent selection in tandem with Sean Taylor, Adrian Peterson would have simply supplanted an established facet of our team.

Kudos again for putting it out there.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=WaldSkins;540688][/B]

Your missing Sean Taylor here[/quote]

I know but I was commenting in regard to today's roster. Certainly I credit the Skins for having drafted him.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

2004- I was on the Sean Taylor band wagon
2005- I wanted Pac Man Jones
2005-I wanted Aaron Rodgers
2006-Mcintosh
2007-Laron Landry
2008 second round picks-Brandon Flowers,Malcolm Kelly,and Trevor Laws

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;540689]Kudos for putting your thoughts out there, I doubt I could break down mine at all. (I do remember what I had for breakfast, but only cuz it's the same every M-F)

As for yours vs. the skins, from what I see, you have no QB picked, so who would be playing that position? You have to account for that (like you accounted for the safety pick). Also, the FO picks all look very solid (your selection of Anquoin Boldin vs Tyler Jacobs is the one pure FO drop).
Peterson vs Landry, I think the FO's was the better choice for the team. Landry was an excellent selection in tandem with Sean Taylor, Adrian Peterson would have simply supplanted an established facet of our team.

Kudos again for putting it out there.[/quote]

Thanks! I'm glad you mentioned that you think the FO has done a good job over the years in the first two rounds of the draft. So do I.

BTW, I also think that Landry was a great pick to go with Sean Taylor. Nevertheless, I thought at the time that Peterson might have HOF ability, so I wasn't concerned about the crowded backfield in the short term.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=WaldSkins;540692]2004- I was on the Sean Taylor band wagon
2005- I wanted Pac Man Jones
2005-I wanted Aaron Rodgers
2006-Mcintosh
2007-Laron Landry
2008 second round picks-Brandon Flowers,Malcolm Kelly,and Trevor Laws[/quote]

In 2005, Jones went at #6 which was before we drafted, at #9. We could have had Aaron Rodgers, though, and he might have been a helluva good pick for us.

In 2008, we could have had either Laws or Flowers at #34. The other one probably wouldn't have been there at #48. I really liked both of those players.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

Laws went at #47 to philly

And in 2005 i was really big on Merriman but when we traded Champ we needed to fill his whole

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=WaldSkins;540698]Laws went at #47 to philly[/quote]

I know! One pick before us and to a division rival! I nearly sh*t a brick! I thought he would be our pick at #48.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;540701]I know! One pick before us and to a division rival! I nearly sh*t a brick! I thought he would be our pick at #48.[/quote]

No, we really needed 3 pass catchers. It's the only weakness we had.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

Probably not. We'd have all defensive players. I find offense............offensive.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

I honestly thought that i could of drafted better than the skins, then I looked at the guys i would have picked over our own guys and think we did the right thing...
example:
We got devin thomas, and I was like, GREAT now lets calais campbell...
our pick came up and i thought we wouldn't hesitate getting him, then fred davis pops up

a huge "WHAT?!?!?!!" comes out of my mouth...then he goes next pick to Arizona...then a season passes and he didn't get a single sack for them or beat out one of their two average DE's (Laboy,Smith)...but who was available, I believe, was jason jones of eastern michigan, but I wasn't as high on him as i was with calais..he ended up having 5 sacks, and was able to play DT and DE, even while haynesworth was out...bottom line I would of had about the same draft as the skins...and even if we had picked calais, i think we still would have traded for JT...now finding chris horton in the 7th that was luck/good scouting (i guess), and i wouldn't have been able to think that of him..and i would have picked brooks at the time too, seeing how great of a punter he was.....Keep in mind that this is what i would have done on draft day, not knowing what these guys would have done

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

My thing with the FO is the trading down and that debacle in '06 draft I believe it was, when they drafted all those RBs for no apparent reason or need to. We could at least have tried to address the needs of both lines with those picks.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

It's easy to go back years later and claim I would have drafted this guy, I was OK with that guy, but it seems as if you are being honest. I have to admit to being a Mike Williams guy in 05.

Although I think the thread is perhaps misleading in that everyone seems to agree we've done well at the top of our drafts. The problem has been trading mid-level picks and not always finding players when we had them. In that, I think a better job could have been done (which is not to say I could have done it, although I'm not sure that's the standard).

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

Trying to do this based on what I would have done that year. Keep in mind my beliefs as to how to actually build a football team have evolved over time so these picks are what I wanted during the actual draft day and do not necessarily represent what I would have done with my current mindset.

2004:
My Pick: [B]Sean Taylor[/B]
Pick: [B]Sean Taylor[/B]

2005:
My Pick: [B]Mike Williams[/B] (:() Tossup between [B]Merriman[/B], [B]Mike Williams[/B], and [B]Carlos Rogers[/B] (I had different priorities back then, plus with Williams production at USC I thought he was a lock to be a star. I loved Merriman's measureables though and the versatility was just icing on the cake. On the other hand I knew we needed a Corner so I was on board with the Rogers pick)
Pick: [B]Carlos Rogers[/B]

2nd 1st Round Pick: [B]Jason Campbell
[/B]My Pick: [B]Stay pat and don't trade up[/B]. Ironically we would have been able to sign Drew Brees as a Free Agent with this plan. :D

2006:
[I]My Pick[/I]: [B]Mathias Kiwanuka[/B] or [B]D'Qwell Jackson [/B]at 22nd overall
For the actual 2nd we got: Not to sure but I want to say [B]Thomas Howard[/B]. I know I was really fond of [B]Winston Justice[/B] on draft day.
[I]Pick[/I]: Traded away 1st in real life. I personally wouldn't have traded the first but the first pick for the Skins was [B]Rocky McIntosh[/B].

2007:
My Pick:[B] Laron Landry [/B]
Pick: [B]Laron Landry[/B]

Also one that pissed me off was the 2007 selection of [B]Jordan Palmer[/B]. If it was me we would have taken [B]Ben Patrick[/B] in a heartbeat.

2008:
My Pick: Would have taken the Falcons up on their offer and came away with[B] Devin Thomas, Calias Campbell, and Charles Godfrey[/B]
Pick: [B]Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, and Malcom Kelly

[/B]3rd Comp
My Pick: [B]Mike McGlynn G/T - Pitt
[/B]Pick: [B]Chad Rhinehart G/T - Nothern Iowa

[/B]4th Round
My Pick: [B]Owen Schmitt FB - West Virginia[/B]
Pick: [B]Justin Tryon

[/B]6th Round
My Pick: [B]Steve Justice (C, Wake Forest), Erin Henderson (LB, Maryland), Marcus Dixon (DT Hampton)[/B]
Pick: [B]Durant Brooks, Kareem Moore, Colt Brennan[/B]

7th Round
My Pick: [B]Kerry Brown (G, App State), Marcus Monk (WR, Arkansas)[/B]
Pick: [B]Rob Jackson, Chris Horton

Undrafted Free Agents: [/B]Would have signed Colt Brennan as I honestly believe he would have gone undrafted.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;540716]My thing with the FO is the trading down and that debacle in '06 draft I believe it was, when they drafted all those RBs for no apparent reason or need to. We could at least have tried to address the needs of both lines with those picks.[/quote]

All those running backs? Are you talking about Manny White and Nemo Broughton in 2005?

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

Nothing like a little hindsight to make ourselves all feel smart huh ;)

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;540758]Nothing like a little hindsight to make ourselves all feel smart huh ;)[/quote]

Lol, I'm trying to play it as honest as I can. None of the picks I disclosed on this thread were 20/20 hindsight choices.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

I have to preface this by saying that I'm infinitely more knowledgeable about the draft now then I was back in 2004. So I probably would have ignored my own current guidelines and gone more off what the experts said back then.

If I was in charge of the Redskins, we would have ended up with the following players (unadjusted for lessons learned, if only to be fair).

2004 - DT Tommie Harris
2005a - DE Erasmus James (seriously)
2005b - CB Ron Bartell
2006 - TE Anthony Fasano
2007 - QB Brady Quinn (DT A. Okoye, if Campbell is assumed)
2008a - DT Trevor Laws
2008b - WR Limas Sweed
2008c - G Jeremy Zuttah

So yeah, I don't actually know if that's [I]better[/I], necessarily. It's different, fo' sho.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;540766]I have to preface this by saying that I'm infinitely more knowledgeable about the draft now then I was back in 2004. So I probably would have ignored my own current guidelines and gone more off what the experts said back then.

If I was in charge of the Redskins, we would have ended up with the following players (unadjusted for lessons learned, if only to be fair).

2004 - DT Tommie Harris
2005a - DE Erasmus James (seriously)
2005b - CB Ron Bartell
2006 - TE Anthony Fasano
2007 - QB Brady Quinn (DT A. Okoye, if Campbell is assumed)
2008a - DT Trevor Laws
2008b - WR Limas Sweed
2008c - G Jeremy Zuttah

[B]So yeah, I don't actually know if that's [I]better[/I], necessarily. It's different, fo' sho[/B].[/quote]

I'm glad that you and others participated in my game. When I did my list, I discovered the same thing you did: The Skins FO has done a good job in picking players on the first day of the draft. I wouldn't have done any better, over a period of years.

Also, it seems to me that the Skins are improving at finding players in Rounds 3 through 7. I admit that they would beat me by default in those rounds.

The one thing that bothered me during this exercise was being reminded of the number of 1st and 2nd Round picks that the FO has traded away. Here we have a FO that has done a good job with the picks they've had but, IMO, they haven't placed the proper value on those picks. Holding on to those picks and drafting well would enable the Skins to continually refresh their roster and maintain a younger team.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

kinda hard to remember for me but i remember 3 players i really wanted and were available :\

1) antonio bryant (went to college around Pittsburgh, got to see and hear about the guy alot, i was sold on him, scared when he went to the boys, seems to finally realize the talent in TB)

2) mike doss (safety, i was really high on him as our 2nd (our 1st pick) round pick but i think we went with taylor jacobs that year) seems hes fallen out after having a promising start with the colts.

3) mason crosby (2 years ago i was really hoping we would pick him up late in the draft, i think we took dallas startz then GB picked him up. i didnt not believe in suisham or his leg strength and really thought [and still do] that a competent kicker and punter could equal a few more wins)

sorry KI for not following your scheme but i just cant think with certainty players i wish the skins had drafted instead of who they got besides these three.

go skins!!

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

A funner way to play this game is to post your pick here right before the redskins pick at each of their picks. You can see who is availible a make you selection. Right after the Draft the mods can lock it. Every year create a new thread for each draft. After about 5 seasons we can look at the results from each of the threads and see who is GM worthy.

I got nothing else to do except post, grow old, and die anyway.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=djnemo65;540729]It's easy to go back years later and claim I would have drafted this guy, I was OK with that guy, but it seems as if you are being honest. I have to admit to being a Mike Williams guy in 05.

Although I think the thread is perhaps misleading in that everyone seems to agree we've done well at the top of our drafts. The problem has been trading mid-level picks and not always finding players when we had them. In that, I think a better job could have been done (which is not to say I could have done it, although I'm not sure that's the standard).[/quote]

well put.
The trade that sticks out the most in my mind, as well as many here, is the Loyd deal. We gave up a 3rd & 4th, those are valuable picks in the draft as the chance of getting starters is 50/50, and the cost is low.

With the info that was out there on Loyd prior to the trade for anybody that knows how to google or read a San Fran paper online, I can honestly say that I would've at least only offered 1 pick, maybe a 4th.

There are a no. of other deals. I won't pile on w/the JT trade cause at the time Vinny made a quick deal when it appeared we needed it. But overall, it seems that anybody w/a game plan & reasonable discipline could hold on to draft picks better than our FO. In fairness though, Vinny did a good job (albeit the wr's are yet to be judged) last year & traded back to get more picks & minimize risk. I think he just needs more time.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

Well I know a few things that I 100% would not have done. I wouldn't be giving up draft picks for Duckett, Brunell, Lloyd and Jason Taylor. And I probably would not have given up picks to get JC, Cooley or Rocky. I'm not sure who I would've picked in the draft but the roster would look much different. For instance I probably would've tried to get Warner in 04 for free, coached him up and put a solid line in front of him instead of taking Brunell and drafting JC. I also would have handled the Bailey situation a different way. He would've either had to play for me, sit out or I would have traded him for draft picks. But no way would I have given Denver the extra 2nd round pick.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

I hope, although there is no strong reason to believe, that the FO has learned the value of having a full slate of picks. I admit, I am a touch envious that the cowpokes made a terrible trade for RW and STILL have more picks than us (although no 1st rounder)

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

To be fair, it is still way too early to judge last year's draft. I'm not so sure the FO hasn't done a decent job draftwise. A lot of people are killing Vinny on last year alone, but successful rookie receivers are definitely the exception to the rule. If even one of them steps up big it will be a decent draft right there--especially having gotten Horton and Moore.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;540920]I hope, although there is no strong reason to believe, that the FO has learned the value of having a full slate of picks. I admit, I am a touch envious that the cowpokes made a terrible trade for RW and STILL have more picks than us (although no 1st rounder)[/quote]

I'd like to see them commit to [B]no panic moves ever [/B]and [B]no trades involving giving up draft picks higher than a 6th rounder[/B].

If they get in a bind at a position, they can make a trade, pick up a Free Agent, talk someone out of retirement, pluck someone off of another team's taxi squad, or have a try out for bartenders, carpenters, and fork lift operators who would like to play in the NFL.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;540924]I'd like to see them commit to [B]no panic moves ever [/B]and [B]no trades involving giving up draft picks higher than a 6th rounder[/B].

[B]If they get in a bind at a position[/B], they can make a trade, pick up a Free Agent, talk someone out of retirement, pluck someone off of another team's taxi squad, or have a try out for bartenders, carpenters, and fork lift operators who would like to play in the NFL.[/quote]

Or even give a young backup a chance.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

I know we would all like to think so, but probably not.

Re: Could you have drafted better than the Skins FO?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;540924]I'd like to see them commit to [B]no panic moves ever [/B]and [B]no trades involving giving up draft picks higher than a 6th rounder[/B].

If they get in a bind at a position, they can make a trade, pick up a Free Agent, talk someone out of retirement, [B][U]pluck someone off of another team's taxi squad[/U][/B], or have a try out for bartenders, carpenters, and fork lift operators who would like to play in the NFL.[/quote]

You made me curious, since Daniels and Buzbee went down at the beginning of training camp, are there still players tagged as practice squad players that would have been available. Purely in hindsight, I am wondering if we had brought in a carpenter/bartender as a training camp body, and waited. I am willing to bet there was no way JT would have made it with Parcells last year. Ah well, I liked the trade then, c'est la guerre.