Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Since the draft won't start until 4pm, we still have a little bit of room for speculations. As I was reading the Redskins presser today, the phrase "trading veteran players" showed up, I started to think about making this thread.

Throwing cap implications out the window (sorry Schneed), which current Redskins player would you trade for draft picks?

Try to keep it somewhat within reality in regards of which player (i.e. trading Samuels is wayyy out in fantasy land) and the compensation (i.e. we're not getting a 1st rounder for Colt Brennan, ok?).

The only ones I can think of, would be trading either Anthony Montgomery or Kedric Golston for a 3rd or 4th rounder. Ok, ready, set, speculate!

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Rogers and Campbell. Rogers would cost money, but Campbell would save us money. Rogers could probably get a low 2nd or 3rd while Campbell could probably get between a 2nd or 4th. Hard to gauge value.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

I would trade Reed Doughty to the Patriots for their seventh round pick next year.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Rogers and Campbell are on my no-trade list; I would wait until this season for both of them - both of them have sort of low values (compared to what we spent to get them)..

Golston and Montgomery, for some reason I'm having difficult time to accept the idea of trading them.. They are decent DTs, Montgomery is still growing.. Who knows how much gas Griffin has in the tank (and how long he can stay healthy).. I would be willing to trade one of them (for 2nd round or early 3rd rd), I would prefer to keep one of them..

I would try shipping Betts and Randle El, although both may be worth such as 3rd or 4th? More picks is better than stucking with veterans who doesn't produce much (arguments can be made with Randle El, but he is not worth what we are paying him)..

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

I don't wan to trade any high value guys so I find this to be a hard game. However, I'll bite.

I agree with Golston or Monty for a 3rd or 4th
Smoot for a 5th
Doughty for a 6th or 7th
Randle El for a 4th or 5th, maybe even a 3rd
Brennan for a 6th
Tryon for some twinkies

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Monty, Golston, Betts, Tryon, Randel El, Yoder, Jansen, Rabach, Blades, Fincher... ALL AVAILABLE FOR A THIRD ROUNDER! PS Smoot

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Moss, if only because this is the very last year we'll be able to get anything for him. If we hold onto him another year, we'll probably get a productive year from the guy, but then he's a 31 year old receiver whose best days will be well in the rear view mirror.

Golston as well, if only because I think Lorenzo Alexander needs to make the team.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=GTripp0012;548549]Moss, if only because this is the very last year we'll be able to get anything for him. If we hold onto him another year, we'll probably get a productive year from the guy, but then he's a 31 year old receiver whose best days will be well in the rear view mirror.

Golston as well, if only because I think Lorenzo Alexander needs to make the team.[/quote]

Well if we some how draft Mark Sanchez than we might as well try to trade S. Moss for at least a 2nd and 5th round pick. If we get Sanchez i cant see why we would keep Campbell. I rather keep Campbell but if the front office has their mind set on a rookie qb than so be it. We would not have a #1 WR on our roster unless our young WR can step up. We dont have many players with value, Betts we might get a 5th or 6th pick at best. Then would have to find a replacement for him. So Moss is our only player who would draw high interest from teams. It would be hard letting Moss go.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=Lotus;548537]I don't wan to trade any high value guys so I find this to be a hard game. However, I'll bite.

I agree with Golston or Monty for a 3rd or 4th
Smoot for a 5th
Doughty for a 6th or 7th
Randle El for a 4th or 5th, maybe even a 3rd
Brennan for a 6th
Tryon for some twinkies[/quote]

LOL!

Cerrato for............ uh............we don't need anything for VC, we will give up a framed portrait of the three trophies for someone to take him off our hands and to get rid of him!


Snyder ................for the Squire! Darn! Wish we could have him back!

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Threads like this are depressing because the only player we have worth a 1st rounder would be the guy we just gave a record contract to. Not many 2nds either, maybe Hall, but we just locked him up too. Moss might get a 2nd. ARE would get what.. a 4th? Only if he was willing to take a lower contract?

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Ruh - Great thread. I am good with losing Brennan, Smoot, and/or Doughty. I am not as high on Brennan as most. Of course I hope he is effing awesome and takes us to a trillion superbowls down the line, but I am not on board with the Cult of Colt quite yet.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Golston and that is pretty much it. I wouldn't trade Montgomery, he is clearly the better player (don't tell Greg Blache) and Haynesworth is not going to play all the snaps at nose this year. As Tripp said, Alexander should make this team and right now we have three guys who are best suited to the nose and it would be best if we could have Alexander to back up Griff at the "3".

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=johno;548571]Ruh - Great thread. I am good with losing Brennan, Smoot, and/or Doughty. I am not as high on Brennan as most. Of course I hope he is effing awesome and takes us to a trillion superbowls down the line, but I am not on board with the Cult of Colt quite yet.[/quote]

You're not going to get anything for Colt worth trading. It's not like he's even worth a 4th at this point. If someone wanted him that badly they would've drafted him before the 6th round last year.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

I would trade Betts and ARE as well, but I really don't think we'd be able to get more than a 5th rounder for either of them.

We would need to trade them to a team that's been known to give away 3rds and 4ths for marginal players... I know, we could trade them to ourselves!

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Betts and Golston [B]might[/B] warrant a 3rd, but beyond that I don't see anyone on our team, that other teams would trade for.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

It kinda sounds in the grand scheme of the front office, is the Skins are going to start all over with youth on Offense(Something that was yelled loudly here on this site) but of course the way the FO is doing it, it hurts a lot.

Example:

Get Sanchez, Young WR's last year, Young TE last year

Going with that thinking there are some players who we would be wasting till the youth grows up football wise... like
Clinton Portis 30year old backs go down hill! Clinton is 27 but the Skins ride him hard!
Santana Moss near 30 and not a number 1 reciever!
Betts, ARE and JC are a given. Trade bate material all the way!

I am not saying I agree but some have to watch out what they want cause Vinny and Dan do things how they want!

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

I know some ppl won't agree with me on this but i would trade Santana OR (not AND) ARE immediately. They both have trade value and we have a stockpile of wide receivers (albeit unspectacular WR's). I think we could definitely find suitors for either of them. I think the problem is that by having both of them we limit ourselves offensively with the WCO that we are trying to set up. In a way i think it would be addition by subtraction if we can get a day 1 pick out of a deal and draft a starter.

I am also not a big fan of paying Betts to sit on the bench. I think he is both very tradeable and expendable. If we can get a 4th rounder and a later pick for him, i'd be all for it. We can use that 4th rounder to draft an immediate need (LB, DE, OL) and the later pick to draft a backup RB to replace him.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Had to add that I love the thread, btw...

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

I really wouldn't trade anyone right now outside of Campbell assuming he's involved in a trade up to grab Sanchez.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=derekc4;548528]Rogers and Campbell. Rogers would cost money, but Campbell would save us money. Rogers could probably get a low 2nd or 3rd while Campbell could probably get between a 2nd or 4th. Hard to gauge value.[/quote]

A good place to start but we may need to keep Carlos one more year so we can worry about the defensive backfield later. If I could get a 2nd rounder for Betts I would do that and package Kareem Moore and Malcom? Kelley for another 2nd rounder.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Portis for a 2nd rounder IF we could get it. He's only got so much left.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

I know we're not supposed to worry about cap hits....but can't really talk trades without it. Moss is really the only one with potential value and a minimal cap hit. We're stuck with ARE thru 2011 he's got minimal value anyway (maybe a 4th or 5th). Portis has value but he's here at least thru 2009. If we could get a mid-high 2nd for Moss, I'd move him.

If we draft a QB (bonehead move), then we need to move Campbell sometime on day one of the draft for hopefully a 2nd, even if it's in 2010. If we don't, he certainly won't resign with us and we'll get no value. If I'm GM and we're smart and don't go QB, right after the draft I start working on an extension with him before the season starts, if he can be locked up for a contract that pays him for his performance level up to now, we're getting great value if he's successful, if not we're locking up a capable back-up for 4-5 years for high, but not crazy money.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Interesting thread, Ruhskins. I'll try to be realistic in terms of which players we can live without, actually have value, and wouldnt create an enormous cap hit.

[B][U]Santana Moss[/U][/B] - He only has one or two productive years left and could be enticing to teams who feel they are contenders in 2009 and 2010. We are probably 3 years away at best, so i'd attempt to trade him.
[i]Required Compensation:[/i] 2nd OR a 3rd and 4th.

[B][U]Jason Campbell[/U][/B] - The only way would consider trading Campbell is if we draft Sanchez. Even then, the compensation would need to be good. If not, i'd rather keep Campbell and have he and Sanchez compete for the job. Its possible Campbell would win the job, play well and increase his trade value in 2010. We could then trade franchise and Campbell or trade Sanchez for a 1st round pick (or more) in 2010.
[i]Required Compensation:[/i] 2nd OR a 3rd and 4th

[B][U]Chris Horton[/U][/B] - Yes, i made this argument earlier, and no one agreed with me, but I stand by it now. Horton and Landry are both Strong Safeties and starting Horton at SS means were forced to play Landry at SS. We have good safety depth now, but i'd consider offers for Horton if we used those picks to upgrade our lines. Kareem Moore (FS) and Landry (SS) is a better safety tandem than Landry (FS) and Horton (SS). Also, Horton and Doughty are very similar players, except Horton has trade value and Doughty doesnt. Yes, i know Horton was THE highlight of last years draft class, but i'm confident we could turn that 7th round pick into a 3rd rounder this year.
[i]Required Compensation[/i] High 3rd rounder or no deal.

[B][U]Golston, Montgommery, or Alexander[/U][/B] Its nice to have all three of these guys, but i don't see all three resigning with us when their contracts expire over the next couple years. All three are potential rotational starters, but now that we have Haynesworth, they will each see far more limited duty. It would be wise to move one of them now. Compensation would vary depending on the player, but I wouldnt let any of them go for a 5th or 6th round pick.
[i]Required Compensation:[/i] 3rd for Golston, 4th for the other two.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

If we can't get more than just a 2nd rounder for portis, i wouldn't want to even entertain the idea of a trade...He is pretty much the face of the franchise and is worth as much to Dannyboy for what he does on the field as what he represents off of it.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;548620] We're stuck with ARE thru 2011
[/quote]
Pretty sure all the contracts of ARE and Carter make them very cutable after before the 2010 season... its only if we keep them through 2010 season that we become "stuck" with them thru 2011. I'm 99 percent sure AREs cut after this season and i'm 50/50 with Carter - it depends on how he plays this year and what happenes at the other DE position. He's certainly a very good end, but his play will start to decline soon and he probably wont be worth his contract in 2011.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;548625]Pretty sure all the contracts of ARE and Carter make them very cutable after before the 2010 season... its only if we keep them through 2010 season that we become "stuck" with them thru 2011. I'm 99 percent sure AREs cut after this season and i'm 50/50 with Carter - it depends on how he plays this year and what happenes at the other DE position. He's certainly a very good end, but his play will start to decline soon and he probably wont be worth his contract in 2011.[/quote]Remember the big contracts and signing bonuses those guys completed, I think one or both may have also extended or pushed a bonus up front to free up cap space. The cap hits on both are WAAAAYYYY to high to release them before the end of 2011. Not sure what you're referring to here.

Check out the drop down tabs at the top of the page, go to "Team Info" then to "Salary Cap Info". This is a cap sheet with detailed contract info and release fees. Invaluable info here for any discussion of trades, contracts, etc. (thanks again CC).

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

C. Griffin, ARE, Carter, D. Thomas in that order.

Griffin is often hurt & we are now deep at DT. He might bring a 4th round pick.

ARE is a good team guy & maybe more valuable as a steady vet behind the scenes, but is limited on the field. They don't even run many gadget plays w/him. He might get a 4th.

AC is a good team guy it appears, and his play v. the run has really improved. However, that might be at the expense of his pass rush, his specialty. I only see one move from him, trying to beat the ot around the edge. He's getting too old for that. He could possibly get a 3rd from a desparate team, but I doubt it.

Thomas shows signs of being a relative bust & attitude problem. If someone offered a 2nd for him it would be worth a long look. This is not something I want to see happen, it would mean that the coaches pretty much don't have faith in him improving much. I realized he's the next in line as the main outside speedster. Someone of value would have to take his place.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;548618]Portis for a 2nd rounder IF we could get it. He's only got so much left.[/quote]

So you trust Betts THAT much? He'd set the all-time NFL record for fumbles if starting all year.

We better draft a RB at #13 if we do that deal.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33]Remember the big contracts and signing bonuses those guys completed, I think one or both may have also extended or pushed a bonus up front to free up cap space. The cap hits on both are WAAAAYYYY to high to release them before the end of 2011. Not sure what you're referring to here.

Check out the drop down tabs at the top of the page, go to "Team Info" then to "Salary Cap Info". This is a cap sheet with detailed contract info and release fees. Invaluable info here for any discussion of trades, contracts, etc. (thanks again CC). [/quote]

I trust CC knows 1000 times more about this than I do, but looking at the contracts, which JLC provided, [I]i think CC is calculating their release fees under the assumption the skins choose to pay Carter and ARE their option bonuses prior to the 2010 season. [/I]

If we don't pay the option bonus, the release fees would be significantly smaller - read below:

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/the-full-carter-and-randle-el.html]Redskins Insider - The Full Carter And Randle El Contracts[/url]

[QUOTE=][U][B]The Full Carter And Randle El Contracts[/b][/U]

Let's start with Carter.

As part of his new contract, he received a $3 million signing bonus, and his deal now extends through 2015 (in principle at least, more on that in a moment). And he has a $7.25 million option bonus in 2010, which the club has until Aug. 31, 2010 to decide whether or not to pick up. If that option bonus is executed, then Carter's deal extends through 2015, with that $7.25 million then prorated over the ensuing six seasons.

If Carter's option bonus is picked up, his 2010 base salary is $1.3 million. If that option is not executed, then Carter's 2010 base salary jumps to $1.95 million, and he becomes eligible for unrestricted free agency following the 2010 season (barring yet another renegotiation/new contract; these two guys have don't 3 deals each with the Skins in 4 years here)

[B]Should the Redskins opt to cut Carter after the 2009 season, prior to executing the option bonus, then Carter would count about $5.1 million in dead cap space[/B] (Now, there's a chance we don't get a new CBA in the next year, in which case 2010 is uncapped, so cap hits wouldn't matter. I'm starting to think more and more that common sense prevails here and labor peace wins, but who knows).

The Randle El contract is virtually identical in theory.

As part of his new deal he got a $2.5 million signing bonus, and his deal now has the potential to extend years beyond his old one, through 2015 at max. And he has a $6.25 million option bonus in 2010, which the club has until Aug. 31, 2010 to decide whether or not to pick up. If that option bonus is executed, then Randle El's deal can go through 2015, with that $6.25 million prorated over the ensuing six seasons (feel like you are reading the same paragraph over and over?).

If Randle El's option bonus is executed, his 2010 base salary is $1.375 million. If that option is not executed, then Randle El's 2010 base salary jumps to $1.95 million and he is eligible to become an unrestricted free agent following the 2010 season. [B]Should the Redskins opt to cut Randle El after the 2009 season, prior to executing the option bonus, then Randle El would count $4.4 million in dead cap space.[/B]

So there you have it. Nothing too earth shattering; typical Skins business. They were going to face decisions on these guys following the 2009 season already, under their previous deals, and will end up doing so again, only with the players now having the chance to get another $13.5 million in total guaranteed between them at a later stage of their career should those options get picked up.

Neither has been very productive since signing lucrative free agent deals here in March of 2006, and both play positions that have been woefully unproductive here on the whole. From the player standpoint, there's every incentive to do these deals, they end up getting more money up front now and the chance to earn much more. The team's only real incentive is to try to get under the cap, again, and this helps a bit. It's really just shifting some money around - salary cap gymnastics.
[/QUOTE]

IMO when Carter and ARE signed these new contracts, they did so with the knowledge that they would likely be cut after the 2009 season. There's no way we're picking up AREs option. The skins will gladly take the 4.4M hit to cut ARE.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/news/story?id=4092024]Heavy interest in Mark Sanchez in NFL draft - ESPN[/url]

it looks like Jason Campbell is still on the block.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;548721]I trust CC knows 1000 times more about this than I do, but looking at the contracts, which JLC provided, [I]i think CC is calculating their release fees under the assumption the skins choose to pay Carter and ARE their option bonuses prior to the 2010 season. [/I]

If we don't pay the option bonus, the release fees would be significantly smaller - read below:

IMO when Carter and ARE signed these new contracts, they did so with the knowledge that they would likely be cut after the 2009 season. There's no way we're picking up AREs option. The skins will gladly take the 4.4M hit to cut ARE.[/quote]The hit on ARE possibly (I agree he has been very underproductive based on his salary), the 5.1M hit on Carter doubtful. Certainly not both in the same year, together that's almost 10M in dead cap.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

10M would be quite a hit to take, however there are two factors to consider:

1) 2010 will probably be uncapped, making this all meaningless.
2) If 2010 is capped, the cap will very very very high. As of right now, we only have 114M committed to player contracts in 2010 and the Salary Cap would be atleast 20M over that.

I think we could afford to take the hit cutting Carter in 2010, but my gut tells me he's going to have a really good year. Carter has a great work ethic and i think he can be effective well into his 30s. IMO ARE and Jansen are the prime candidates to be cut next year.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;548743]I think we could afford to take the hit cutting Carter in 2010, but my gut tells me he's going to have a really good year. Carter has a great work ethic and i think he can be effective well into his 30s. IMO ARE and Jansen are the prime candidates to be cut next year.[/quote]Here's something I've been thinking about but haven't come to a solid conclusion on, let's say by some miracle the FO doesn't pull a Plax and shoot itself in the leg, Orakpo falls to us and we take him at 13. IMO he isn't LB material and must be used at DE. Do you plug him at RDE (Carter's spot) where he'd be most effective and could be a bigger, stronger, although slightly less explosive D. Freeney and move Carter to LDE? Or do we put him at LDE and move him over to RDE in a year or two when/if Carter declines? I'm leaning to putting him at RDE and moving Carter.

Nothing like a huge bit of pre-draft speculation, but it's better than constant QB talk. LOL.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=Buster;548656]So you trust Betts THAT much? He'd set the all-time NFL record for fumbles if starting all year.

We better draft a RB at #13 if we do that deal.[/quote]

I think we can find someone in the 3rd round, honestly.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;548759]Here's something I've been thinking about but haven't come to a solid conclusion on, let's say by some miracle the FO doesn't pull a Plax and shoot itself in the leg, Orakpo falls to us and we take him at 13. IMO he isn't LB material and must be used at DE. Do you plug him at RDE (Carter's spot) where he'd be most effective and could be a bigger, stronger, although slightly less explosive D. Freeney and move Carter to LDE? Or do we put him at LDE and move him over to RDE in a year or two when/if Carter declines? I'm leaning to putting him at RDE and moving Carter.

Nothing like a huge bit of pre-draft speculation, but it's better than constant QB talk. LOL.[/quote]

With Orakpo I think you'd be looking at having him playing some DE and some Sam, especially in rush situations. In Blache's scheme you are going to get a lot of rushes from the Sam anyway so you could try to cover any liabilities in pass coverage that way and let him learn LB in the process. Something like what the Giants did with Kiwanuka.

But to answer your question, I think Orakpo is a better fit at RDE where he will see fewer double teams and can better utilize his athleticism. We kind of got a preview of what it looks like to have an undersized guy manning the LDE last season, though I suspect Orakpo would prove a better player against the run than Taylor was. It seems that if Orakpo is there, and the Skins take him, then they envision him playing a good bit of OLB next season.

Also, unless Curry falls for some unknown reason it seems like most anyone the Skins would take at #13 would offer liabilities in the pass game. The guys they have on the team currently, including if Marcus Washington came back, also offer matchup problems in the pass game. The question becomes whether they can find someone with the juice to help get after the passer at that position.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

How can anyone suggest putting an undersized player at LDE? All it did last year was guarantee opposing offenses would run right and run often at JT. We don't need a star at LDE, we just need a big body that can be stout against the run, we can focus on a pass rush specialist at RDE. I'd like to see us get Ayers for that.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;548796]How can anyone suggest putting an undersized player at LDE? All it did last year was guarantee opposing offenses would run right and run often at JT. We don't need a star at LDE, we just need a big body that can be stout against the run, we can focus on a pass rush specialist at RDE. I'd like to see us get Ayers for that.[/quote]

I agree, to a point. I think our D line has intense potential, depending on what we can get for our DE. Haynesworth and Griffin are going to absolutely dominate the inside line, if we can draft either an elite pass rusher who can take advantage of one on one opportunities on the outside that would be an excellent option, or if we can get a big DE, that has an average QB rush, but is physical enough to dominate one, possibly two O-lineman, then that leaves a lot of LB blitz options.

P.S. We need to get Washington back.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

Trade any of these players : randy Thomas jon Jansen ladell betts yoder randle el thrash griffin or the worst of the two young DTs smoot Campbell Collins

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;548796]How can anyone suggest putting an undersized player at LDE? All it did last year was guarantee opposing offenses would run right and run often at JT. We don't need a star at LDE, we just need a big body that can be stout against the run, we can focus on a pass rush specialist at RDE. I'd like to see us get Ayers for that.[/quote]Agree with you, AC is too small for an every down LDE, Orakpo is a little bigger but not ideal size for LDE either. To my point, let's say you draft Ayers/Orakpo and put him at RDE, what do you do with AC (he's going nowhere)? Or possibly some sort of rotation using Buzbee or Alexander at LDE on run downs and AC or one side and Orakpo (Ayers) at the other DE.

Re: Trading Players for Draft Picks Game
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;548950]Agree with you, AC is too small for an every down LDE, Orakpo is a little bigger but not ideal size for LDE either. To my point, let's say you draft Ayers/Orakpo and put him at RDE, what do you do with AC (he's going nowhere)? Or possibly some sort of rotation using Buzbee or Alexander at LDE on run downs and AC or one side and Orakpo (Ayers) at the other DE.[/quote]

I think you Rotate AC with whomever we draft for RDE. I would rather see Alexander or possibly Golston at LDE. With Haynesworth and Griffin blowing up the middle, we need a big body to hold the end of the line and not get blown off the line of scrimmage.