Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[B]Haynesworth [/B]and [B]Orakpo[/B] (if used at the line of scrimmage) both in the top ten



[url=http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation?tag=building%20blocks%20nfc]NFL Nation - ESPN[/url]

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

From Football Outsiders, they look at 5 players on the rise, including our very own Jason Campbell.

[url=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=4247982]Miles Austin, Jason Campbell or Sam Baker could be next big NFC stars - ESPN[/url]

This is an insider article, so I thought I would post the entire section on Campbell:

[quote] [B]Jason Campbell, QB, Washington Redskins[/B]

Football Outsiders has been touting Campbell since he came out of Auburn because of his [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135"]Lewin Career Forecast[/URL], our metric that uses completion percentage and games started at the college level to reliably predict NFL performance for quarterbacks chosen in the first two rounds. Over the past decade, the only first-round quarterback to come out of college with a Lewin Career Forecast superior to Campbell's is Philip Rivers.

Furthermore, [B]it's not as if Campbell has been unimpressive; his completion percentage, touchdown-to-interception ratio, quarterback rating and DVOA have improved with each season as a professional, while his interception rate has declined.[/B] The only notable negative indicator for Campbell is a relatively high sack rate at 7.0 percent, but he gets sacked for the same reason Ben Roethlisberger gets sacked; at 6-foot-5, Campbell stands tall in the pocket and is able to make throws at the last moment that other quarterbacks wouldn't be able to get off.

Campbell heads into 2009 at a crossroads two similar quarterbacks faced after being presented with competition for their job at the end of their rookie contract. Drew Brees excelled and earned himself a mammoth deal from New Orleans; on the other hand, Byron Leftwich failed to take his game to the next level and lost his job to David Garrard. The difference between the subsequent contracts of the two players was $53 million; that's what Campbell's playing for this upcoming season.[/quote]

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

If Mosley is asking the question I think he is, I'm taking Campbell at QB before anyone in the division. If he's instead asking me to take the best, established player, well, then I'm still not taking Eli.

2. Tuck, for sure
3. Haynesworth, for sure
4. Orakpo, for sure
5. Jason Peters
6. Brian Westbrook
7. Felix Jones
8. Jason Witten
9. Carlos Rogers
10. I'm going to pass on DeMarcus Ware and go with DeSean Jackson

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

Calling Samuel the best CB in the division by far is an embarrassment. He's not better than Newman. He's not better than Rogers. He's probably not even better than Corey Webster, although I'm not going to go that far. He [I]might[/I] not be the best CB on his own team.

DeMarcus Ware is painfully overrated. There were like 4 games last year where he may or may not have been dressed, I don't know. He's not great against the run, and a lot of his 20 sacks were concentrated in games against vastly inferior competition. Oh, and when the Cowboys needed one win in their last two games to make the playoffs, Ware got one sack, in the first quarter of the first game. He's not, say, Shawne Merriman or Justin Tuck good. Not even close.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

This tells me that Philip Rivers is better...and we're going after him next off-season!! :)

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

We didnt lose much on D and added two terrors yet the writer still doesn't think skins will make the playoffs. Interesting.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=SmootSmack;562412]This tells me that Philip Rivers is better...and we're going after him next off-season!! :)[/quote]
............that the inside dope?

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=GTripp0012;562406]Calling Samuel the best CB in the division by far is an embarrassment. He's not better than Newman. He's not better than Rogers. He's probably not even better than Corey Webster, although I'm not going to go that far. He [I]might[/I] not be the best CB on his own team.

DeMarcus Ware is painfully overrated. There were like 4 games last year where he may or may not have been dressed, I don't know. He's not great against the run, and a lot of his 20 sacks were concentrated in games against vastly inferior competition. Oh, and when the Cowboys needed one win in their last two games to make the playoffs, Ware got one sack, in the first quarter of the first game. He's not, say, Shawne Merriman or Justin Tuck good. Not even close.[/quote]

Umm Samuel is the best corner in the division, simply because he comes up big in the playoffs, like intercepting tarvaris Jackson for a TD, then manning(s) he's physical, can play all types of coverages the whole deal, Newman isn't even in the same convorsation as him, same with rogers, if I were creating my own defense I would have nnamdi asomougha on one side and Samuel on the other side

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=Nflnick11;562418]Umm Samuel is the best corner in the division, simply because he comes up big in the playoffs, like intercepting tarvaris Jackson for a TD, then manning(s) he's physical, can play all types of coverages the whole deal, Newman isn't even in the same convorsation as him, same with rogers, if I were creating my own defense I would have nnamdi asomougha on one side and Samuel on the other side[/quote]
You'd have more credibility on that interception claim if you conveniently left off who was slinging the ball.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=GTripp0012;562406]Calling Samuel the best CB in the division by far is an embarrassment. He's not better than Newman. He's not better than Rogers. He's probably not even better than Corey Webster, although I'm not going to go that far. He [I]might[/I] not be the best CB on his own team.
[/quote]

I think talent-wise Carlos Rogers is pretty close to Asante Samuel, but Terrance Newman? I don't have a gillion metrics with which to make that comparison, but I can't think of any situation where I would want Newman over Samuel.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=tryfuhl;562424]You'd have more credibility on that interception claim if you conveniently left off who was slinging the ball.[/quote]

Haha true, but if I hadn't said who it was, then someone would of said who it was against, in a comment like yours

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[I][B]3. Albert Haynesworth, DT, Washington Redskins: He's the most dominant defensive tackle we've seen in years. He's virtually impossible to block one-on-one. I think he'll make a huge impact on the defense in '09. Enough to get the Skins to the playoffs? Probably not.[/B][/I]

Why do "analysts" have such hard time taking a chance on saying the Skins will make the playoffs this year? Is it really that out of the question? They were a borderline playoff contender last year with miserable offense and a D that while played solid, couldn't pressure the QB or generate turnovers.

Now the offense should be improved in year #2 under Zorn, and the D should be able to get after the passer and create some more turnovers.

I dunno, to me it's not crazy to picture the Skins going 10-6 and being a wildcard.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=GTripp0012;562406][B]Calling Samuel the best CB in the division by far is an embarrassment. He's not better than Newman. He's not better than Rogers. [/B]He's probably not even better than Corey Webster, although I'm not going to go that far. He [I]might[/I] not be the best CB on his own team.

DeMarcus Ware is painfully overrated. There were like 4 games last year where he may or may not have been dressed, I don't know. He's not great against the run, and a lot of his 20 sacks were concentrated in games against vastly inferior competition. Oh, and when the Cowboys needed one win in their last two games to make the playoffs, Ware got one sack, in the first quarter of the first game. He's not, say, Shawne Merriman or Justin Tuck good. Not even close.[/quote]

You may not agree that he is the best CB in the division but to say it's embarrassment that someone thinks so is a little too far fetched. If Rogers went on the open market no one is going to pay him the money Samuel got. Samuel got that $ for a reason. He's pretty damn good. Not that getting a big contract in the NFL means you're great but I'd probably take Samuel over Rogers.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=Mattyk72;562490][I][B]3. Albert Haynesworth, DT, Washington Redskins: He's the most dominant defensive tackle we've seen in years. He's virtually impossible to block one-on-one. I think he'll make a huge impact on the defense in '09. Enough to get the Skins to the playoffs? Probably not.[/B][/I]

Why do "analysts" have such hard time taking a chance on saying the Skins will make the playoffs this year? Is it really that out of the question? They were a borderline playoff contender last year with miserable offense and a D that while played solid, couldn't pressure the QB or generate turnovers.

Now the offense should be improved in year #2 under Zorn, and the D should be able to get after the passer and create some more turnovers.

I dunno, to me it's not crazy to picture the Skins going 10-6 and being a wildcard.[/quote]

Exactly, I think the addition of Haynesworth and Orakpo alone are good for 2 more wins. For whatevever reason the Skins really are pariahs in the eyes of the national media.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=SmootSmack;562412]This tells me that Philip Rivers is better...and we're going after him next off-season!! :)[/quote]

I won't be shocked if we go after Rivers and Merriman

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

OK I'm Sorry but I thought at least here some people were going to say that it was outrageous that someone put a rookie who hasn't had a Snap in the top ten no matter how good of a prospect he might be. How many 1st round pick with so much high hopes turn out to be bust and to call a guy a top 10 without even playing it's absurd.

Orakpo might be a great player in the future but putting him ahead of Osi, trent Cole even Jay Ratliff as defensive guys go it's absurd.

Also No WR in your top 10 to make a team that's also ridiculous Santana Moss should made the list because he's the best WR in our division, plain and simple. DeSean has potential but e has only play one season.

Third to the guy that said Ware is Overrated I just can't stop laughing he had a sack for 10 consecutive games that's an NFL record (tied) that's consistency it's not like he had 6 sacks against a team then he didn't had any for 2 or 3 games he had 4 against the Giants (3 in 1 game), 2 against you guys. Come on 20 sacks and you say the guy s overrated when he's game planned by every team, he's double or even triple team every play.

It's like me saying Haynesworth it's overrated it's just plain absurd... The guy is the best Tackle in the game today is he worth 41mil Guaranteed I don't know but is he the best sure like Ware is the best OLB in the game.... and to the guy that said Merriman he'0s just a pressure player Ware is a complete OLB he covers and plays the run great and still puts pressure also he doesn't need steroids to be good.

Now Corners Even I as a Dallas fan can agree that Samuel's is the best in the division as one said he finds the ball and play the best in the playoffs he single handed beat Payton Manning twice in the AFC championship with 3 int games. Now I know you're Redskins fans and you support your players but to say C.Rogers is better than Newman again just absurd. C.Rogers finally had one good season last year after some really bad ones at one point in his career he was bench he's improving yes, is he the 3rd best I don't know maybe Brown is third in my book. But Cmon Newman had 1 year that he didn't allow a TD the whole season and the next year only allowed 1. He's the #1 CB in coverage but #5 or #6 in Int.

That's my 2 cents

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

The skins have burned analysts before. They're taking the show me stance. I'm fine with that, hopefully we'll prove everyone wrong.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

If we make the playoffs and JC has a pro bowl season I can't see us going after Rivers. Not sure I like this list though. Ware is incredibly overrated and Eli? Come on. He chokes more than he performs. I liked that ESPN article on JC. I hope to God he has a breakthrough season but if he does not, we can almost all agree that even the greatest QB of all time could not survive the tumultuous ride that JC has endured. Taking into account how he handled it all says alot about him... anyways my point is if he for some reason has a subpar season here, he will make us feel very sorry for ourselves when another team signs him to a little three year deal and he goes crazy like Brees did.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=GTripp0012;562406]Calling Samuel the best CB in the division by far is an embarrassment. He's not better than Newman. He's not better than Rogers. He's probably not even better than Corey Webster, although I'm not going to go that far. He [I]might[/I] not be the best CB on his own team.

DeMarcus Ware is painfully overrated. There were like 4 games last year where he may or may not have been dressed, I don't know. He's not great against the run, and a lot of his 20 sacks were concentrated in games against vastly inferior competition. Oh, and when the Cowboys needed one win in their last two games to make the playoffs, Ware got one sack, in the first quarter of the first game. He's not, say, Shawne Merriman or Justin Tuck good. Not even close.[/quote]

GTripp, I think what you do with the football stats and using metrics is really cool. But at some point you have to reconcile what you're doing with common sense.

Saying Samuel as the best in the division = an embarrassment is a statement that doesn't just contradict common sense, it flies in the face of it.

If you're going to make such a statement, you need to post some of your kick ass metric stuff and summarize it in such a way that you might convince us why you're right. Otherwise these outlandish statements -with no support behind them - convince us of little other than your credibility is questionable.

You've got to show you can convert the stats into common sense discussion or nobody's going to buy it.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

Yeah and if Ware is overrated with 20 sacks, I sure hope Orakpo can be just as overrated.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

Analyst can't say your team is going to make the playoffs because all the teams in the division improved a divison that was already tough.

Yes NY lost their biggest weapon in Plaxico in this might hurt them we don't know how their WR are going to pann out but their defense is just scary they get Osi back and got Canty there also I don't know if they're goign to even need Eli to find the next plaxico they can be like the 2000 Ravens and just let the defense win the games for them.

Philly got 1 of the best LT in the game a freaking cry baby overated in my point of view but if he plays like 2 years ago and not like last year when he was crying about his contract they got a good one plus they got the WR and The RB that McNabb has been asking for the past 10 years.

Dallas who know's.... They let the problem in the lockroom go but also their best offensive weapon... They got 3 great RB's but how they're going to use them I don't know they got a lot of talent oon Defense but in December they always seem to gas out. They got a great QB that chokes in the late run.... The talent is there but I don't know if the focus and heart is there to make it in a tought Division.

Washington improved their Defense which was a huge concern but still has question marks in Offense you guys have a great TE top 5 in my book a great RB and a lot of WR that don't show up every game... Moss has some great and bad years and games he can be complete domminat one week and dissapear the next. and last year two rookie WR jsut didn't show up let's see if one offseason does the deal. Campbell can be a great QB but he might not do it as a Redskin, he might be the next Drew Bress a QB that shines in the next team... the front office doesn'ttrust him anymore and that's huge the fact that thye tried to deal him not once but twice this offseason says a lot.

Now stop with the pipedream of gettign Rivers and/or Merriman that just wont happen and I would bet anyone that just wont happen..... if somebody points out you got Heynsworth he got a clause in his contract That Tennessee couldn't franchise him again that's why you got him... either Rivers or Merriman will get an extension this year and the other is getting franchised sorry.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote]Dallas who know's.... They let the problem in the lockroom go but also their best offensive weapon... They got 3 great RB's but how they're going to use them I don't know they got a lot of talent oon Defense but in December they always seem to gas out. They got a great QB that chokes in the late run.... The talent is there but I don't know if the focus and heart is there to make it in a tought Division.[/quote]
I keep hearing 'addition by subtraction' from the whole TO thing, but ask a Giants fan what happened to their running game when Plax went out. Having that stud WR is huge for opening up the running game -- wish we had one.

In my opinion, Dallas' season hinges on two players. Roy Williams stepping up to be a #1 receiver. Tony Romo becoming consistent and the leader of that team.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

Just like a QB's impact on a team is often overstated (it's a team game after all), TO's overall negative impact on a team is also overstated.

Yes he's a monumental pain in the ass. But the guy is an amazing player and someone you have to gameplan for. There's no way the Cowboys got better by subtracting Owens. They'll only be better if Roy Williams (or someone else) steps up and plays like superstud TO (without being the pain in the ass).

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

I totally agree that losing TO is going to hurt them on the field. Yeah they will have a huge distraction and media whore off their hands, and maybe Romo will feel less pressure since he won't have to feed the ball to him all game long, but not having TO is a big advantage for opposing defenses. Now they can focus in on Witten more.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=Schneed10;562534]Just like a QB's impact on a team is often overstated (it's a team game after all), TO's overall negative impact on a team is also overstated.

Yes he's a monumental pain in the ass. But the guy is an amazing player and someone you have to gameplan for. There's no way the Cowboys got better by subtracting Owens. They'll only be better if Roy Williams (or someone else) steps up and plays like superstud TO (without being the pain in the ass).[/quote]

And I'm pretty sure I heard last week that Romo, particularly Romo to Roy Williams, has been looking pretty piss poor at Cowboys camp.

Not so worried about the Cowboys this year. Eagles and Giants on the other hand...

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

Williams could go down as a monster bust if he doesn't step it up.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=NoviSkins;562511]Exactly, I think the addition of Haynesworth and Orakpo alone are good for 2 more wins. For whatevever reason the Skins really are pariahs in the eyes of the national media.[/quote]

Haynesworth is a proven player, Orakpo is not. We don't know if Orakpo is going to be any good until he puts on the pads. I think it's safe to say (barring injury) the defense is going to be good. It's on the offense IMO. If the offense scores more points we'll see a 2-4 win improvement. If not then we're a 7-9 win team.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=Mattyk72;562545]Williams could go down as a monster bust if he doesn't step it up.[/quote]

I think you can already chalk it up. He's the most overrated player in the NFL. Terrible trade by Dallas IMO.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=GTripp0012;562406]Calling Samuel the best CB in the division by far is an embarrassment. He's not better than Newman. He's not better than Rogers. He's probably not even better than Corey Webster, although I'm not going to go that far. He [I]might[/I] not be the best CB on his own team.

[B]DeMarcus Ware is painfully overrated[/B]. There were like 4 games last year where he may or may not have been dressed, I don't know. He's not great against the run, and a lot of his 20 sacks were concentrated in games against vastly inferior competition. Oh, and when the Cowboys needed one win in their last two games to make the playoffs, Ware got one sack, in the first quarter of the first game. He's not, say, Shawne Merriman or Justin Tuck good. Not even close.[/quote]

LOL. Yeah right. Ask Chris Samuels or any NFL LT if he's overrated.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=skinsfan69;562549]I think you can already chalk it up. He's the most overrated player in the NFL. Terrible trade by Dallas IMO.[/quote]

Most overrated really? More so than Asante Samuel or DeMarcus Ware?? :)

Seriously though, you think he's the most overrated in the entire league? Not sure I agree there.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=Mattyk72;562490][I][B]3. Albert Haynesworth, DT, Washington Redskins: He's the most dominant defensive tackle we've seen in years. He's virtually impossible to block one-on-one. I think he'll make a huge impact on the defense in '09. Enough to get the Skins to the playoffs? Probably not.[/B][/I]

Why do "analysts" have such hard time taking a chance on saying the Skins will make the playoffs this year? Is it really that out of the question? They were a borderline playoff contender last year with miserable offense and a D that while played solid, couldn't pressure the QB or generate turnovers.

Now the offense should be improved in year #2 under Zorn, and the D should be able to get after the passer and create some more turnovers.

I dunno, to me it's not crazy to picture the Skins going 10-6 and being a wildcard.[/quote]

I can't figure it out either. The Eagles have not done very well since their one run to the SB. But for what ever reason every one is predicting them to go to the SB this yr.

Dallas had a couple of good yrs and last yr I didn't see them looking as good as they have in past yrs. To me they look to be on the decline and losing their best weapon on offense that teams had to adjust and account for does not make them better. I'm supprised they were not put at the bottom of the East.

I look at the Giants and I see them slipping but they still made the play offs so they are the team to beat right now.

I look at the Skins and see a team that was not that bad on defense but needed a good pass rusher...we got two and one will command a double team. We picked up a decent CB and perhaps one decent LB. I guess the media knowing we sucked on offense last yr is simply saying it was due to Campbell and the team tried to get rid of him but couldn't so they will be the same. All the while they are failing to see that our problems were several fold......injured O-line, New system, Only one decent WR threat. We've upgraded the O-line ( they don't all have to be 24 y/o's) by adding depth/ talent. Our two WR's have been working their butts off during the off season to learn the offense to help the team, and they are healthy. and due to everyone knowing the offense better and play calls the team is looking more decisive, and faster including Campbell. I know we were in last place last yr with an 8-8 season but we also were learning a new offensive scheme. The Eagles did not fair much better so what was their problem?

I'm confortable in saying as long as people stay healthy (as with any team) we can make it to the playoffs. I like our chances better then the Eagles and Dallas.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=SBXVII;562566]I can't figure it out either. The Eagles have not done very well since their one run to the SB. But for what ever reason every one is predicting them to go to the SB this yr.

Dallas had a couple of good yrs and last yr I didn't see them looking as good as they have in past yrs. To me they look to be on the decline and losing their best weapon on offense that teams had to adjust and account for does not make them better. I'm supprised they were not put at the bottom of the East.

I look at the Giants and I see them slipping but they still made the play offs so they are the team to beat right now.

I look at the Skins and see a team that was not that bad on defense but needed a good pass rusher...we got two and one will command a double team. We picked up a decent CB and perhaps one decent LB. I guess the media knowing we sucked on offense last yr is simply saying it was due to Campbell and the team tried to get rid of him but couldn't so they will be the same. All the while they are failing to see that our problems were several fold......injured O-line, New system, Only one decent WR threat. We've upgraded the O-line ( they don't all have to be 24 y/o's) by adding depth/ talent. Our two WR's have been working their butts off during the off season to learn the offense to help the team, and they are healthy. and due to everyone knowing the offense better and play calls the team is looking more decisive, and faster including Campbell. I know we were in last place last yr with an 8-8 season but we also were learning a new offensive scheme. The Eagles did not fair much better so what was their problem?

I'm confortable in saying as long as people stay healthy (as with any team) we can make it to the playoffs. I like our chances better then the Eagles and Dallas.[/quote]

I don't know why analysts want to hand the SB trophy to the Eagles or the Giants so quickly. Nothing against those two teams, but once again the NFC East is pretty even. The success of all 4 teams will depend on some key issues...

Eagles: Their success will depend on McNabb's health and attitude (32 yrs old and just got a raise), Westrbook's health, and whether DeSean Jackson or Maclin develop into the wideouts that the Eagles have been sorely missed.

Giants: I think the Giants are trying to convince themselves that they don't need a player like Plax. Had they traded for Boldin or even Braylon Edwards, I'd be handing them the division too. Otherwise, I think this is still a big question mark, especially since they appear to miss Plax in the playoffs.

Cowboys: The Cowboys season rests squarely on the shoulders of Roy Williams. If Williams doesn't perform, Witten will become Romo's only target, and well he'll be well covered by defenses. I still think that one of JJ's biggest mistake was to bring a softy coach to run the locker room. If they had brought someone with some balls, they'd still have TO.

Redskins: I feel that a mild improvement on the offense should get us over the playoff hump. However, last season I made the argument that our defense wasn't elite, well I think this year our defense has the potential of becoming an elite unit, allowing them to carry the team. Ideally both situations happen, but realistically only one will.

So there, why can't an analyst say that?

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=Ruhskins;562578]I don't know why analysts want to hand the SB trophy to the Eagles or the Giants so quickly. Nothing against those two teams, but once again the NFC East is pretty even. The success of all 4 teams will depend on some key issues...

Eagles: Their success will depend on McNabb's health and attitude (32 yrs old and just got a raise), Westrbook's health, and whether DeSean Jackson or Maclin develop into the wideouts that the Eagles have been sorely missed.

Giants: I think the Giants are trying to convince themselves that they don't need a player like Plax. Had they traded for Boldin or even Braylon Edwards, I'd be handing them the division too. Otherwise, I think this is still a big question mark, especially since they appear to miss Plax in the playoffs.

Cowboys: The Cowboys season rests squarely on the shoulders of Roy Williams. If Williams doesn't perform, Witten will become Romo's only target, and well he'll be well covered by defenses. I still think that one of JJ's biggest mistake was to bring a softy coach to run the locker room. If they had brought someone with some balls, they'd still have TO.

Redskins: I feel that a mild improvement on the offense should get us over the playoff hump. However, last season I made the argument that our defense wasn't elite, well I think this year our defense has the potential of becoming an elite unit, allowing them to carry the team. Ideally both situations happen, but realistically only one will.

So there, why can't an analyst say that?[/quote]

...because that does not get your name in the papers, internet or T.V. Picking a team and standing by them does. Then later they can say "See I told you prior to the season."

Your assessment was fair I believe. I just don't think the Eagles will have enough WR threats. I know they picked up some one this draft but as with our two WR's there will be a learning curve. Heck D.Jackson even though he sometimes shined he had a learning curve. I just don't think they will have enough weapons. Then look at their CB's. Not that great.

Giants lost two WR's right. Everyone else is a no name other then Moss. Their two big threats are gone. Buress and Amani Toomer..

Dallas had the best WR in the division and let him go and could have had the two best in the division to catapult the team to the play offs. They were stupid. and I agree with you in regards to their HC. He's an awsome co-ordinator but a horrible HC. I see the Cowboys being the bottom feeders this yr.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;562517]OK I'm Sorry but I thought at least here some people were going to say that it was outrageous that someone put a rookie who hasn't had a Snap in the top ten no matter how good of a prospect he might be. How many 1st round pick with so much high hopes turn out to be bust and to call a guy a top 10 without even playing it's absurd.

Orakpo might be a great player in the future but putting him ahead of Osi, trent Cole even Jay Ratliff as defensive guys go it's absurd.

Also No WR in your top 10 to make a team that's also ridiculous Santana Moss should made the list because he's the best WR in our division, plain and simple. DeSean has potential but e has only play one season.

Third to the guy that said Ware is Overrated I just can't stop laughing he had a sack for 10 consecutive games that's an NFL record (tied) that's consistency it's not like he had 6 sacks against a team then he didn't had any for 2 or 3 games he had 4 against the Giants (3 in 1 game), 2 against you guys. Come on 20 sacks and you say the guy s overrated when he's game planned by every team, he's double or even triple team every play.

It's like me saying Haynesworth it's overrated it's just plain absurd... The guy is the best Tackle in the game today is he worth 41mil Guaranteed I don't know but is he the best sure like Ware is the best OLB in the game.... and to the guy that said Merriman he'0s just a pressure player Ware is a complete OLB he covers and plays the run great and still puts pressure also he doesn't need steroids to be good.

Now Corners Even I as a Dallas fan can agree that Samuel's is the best in the division as one said he finds the ball and play the best in the playoffs he single handed beat Payton Manning twice in the AFC championship with 3 int games. Now I know you're Redskins fans and you support your players but to say C.Rogers is better than Newman again just absurd. C.Rogers finally had one good season last year after some really bad ones at one point in his career he was bench he's improving yes, is he the 3rd best I don't know maybe Brown is third in my book. But Cmon Newman had 1 year that he didn't allow a TD the whole season and the next year only allowed 1. He's the #1 CB in coverage but #5 or #6 in Int.

That's my 2 cents[/quote]

Never thought I'd agree with a Dallas fan

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=SmootSmack;562554]Most overrated really? More so than Asante Samuel or DeMarcus Ware?? :)

Seriously though, you think he's the most overrated in the entire league? Not sure I agree there.[/quote]

I do. The knock on him is he doesn't work at his craft and it shows up in his numbers. He's had one good year since he's been in the pro's. He almost reminds me of Michael Westbrook. This year it's put up or shut up for Williams.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;562517]Third to the guy that said Ware is Overrated I just can't stop laughing he had a sack for 10 consecutive games that's an NFL record (tied) that's consistency it's not like he had 6 sacks against a team then he didn't had any for 2 or 3 games he had 4 against the Giants (3 in 1 game), 2 against you guys. Come on 20 sacks and you say the guy s overrated when he's game planned by every team, he's double or even triple team every play.
[/quote]Gets run to the sidelines by tight ends against the run, can't cover a soul if asked to, plays upright and at times, just downright soft, c'mon, keep going. He's overrated because of all the reasons you just named.

Mosley said he's worth Haynesworth money. Go on. Give it to him, I dare ya.

He's either the best or second best defensive player the Cowboys, but that team hasn't exactly been the hallmark of defense over the last three years. On our defense, he'd be our third or fourth best defensive player. But he also wouldn't be overrated because of that ugly star on the side of his helmet.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=GTripp0012;562690]Gets run to the sidelines by tight ends against the run, can't cover a soul if asked to, plays upright and at times, just downright soft, c'mon, keep going. He's overrated because of all the reasons you just named.

Mosley said he's worth Haynesworth money. Go on. Give it to him, I dare ya.

He's either the best or second best defensive player the Cowboys, but that team hasn't exactly been the hallmark of defense over the last three years. On our defense, he'd be our third or fourth best defensive player. But he also wouldn't be overrated because of that ugly star on the side of his helmet.[/quote]

Agreed. Ware is great at simply getting to the QB, but I'd take Peppers or Freeney over him for sure.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=Schneed10;562524]GTripp, I think what you do with the football stats and using metrics is really cool. But at some point you have to reconcile what you're doing with common sense.

Saying Samuel as the best in the division = an embarrassment is a statement that doesn't just contradict common sense, it flies in the face of it.

If you're going to make such a statement, you need to post some of your kick ass metric stuff and summarize it in such a way that you might convince us why you're right. Otherwise these outlandish statements -with no support behind them - convince us of little other than your credibility is questionable.

You've got to show you can convert the stats into common sense discussion or nobody's going to buy it.[/quote]If I had all my materials at hand I think I could give you a much stronger answer. Unfortunately, I'm on the road right now, and do not. But I reject that common sense dictates that Samuel is the best CB in the division. The NFL has no mainstream way to judge a CB outside of he-said, she-said.

Anyway, Mosley says:

[quote][B]4. [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4578"]Asante Samuel[/URL], CB, [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=phi"]Philadelphia Eagles[/URL]: [/B]He's hands down the best cornerback in the division, although [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4463"]Terence Newman[/URL]'s close when healthy. The ball always seems to find Samuel, and that's the best compliment you can pay a defensive back.[/quote]

This of course, is every bit as unsubstantiated as anything I said. There is not one reason given here to believe Samuel is deserving of being one of 10 NFC East building blocks.

Now, for his career, Samuel's [I]coverage numbers ([/I]metrically) have been remarkably average. A lot better than Ellis Hobbs, but still, you can throw on him. Most of his value [U]appears[/U] to be tied up in his 10 INT - pro bowl year in 2006. At that point, his value was at an all time high. I think, there was a lot of reasons to doubt Samuel then, (i.e. he came largely out of nowhere) but he was young, and promising, and had enjoyed a lot of postseason success as a beneficiary of a consistent playoff team.

So, since then, he's averaged 5 INTs a year, 6 in 07, and 4 in 08. A healthy rate, to be sure. But take Newman for example. The guy is basically 4 INTs a year, every year. So, what's the benefit of having a less established player in Samuel, over a top ten pick (both Newman and Rogers)? I know, for a fact that Carlos Rogers' coverage numbers are better than Samuels', and I think Newman has better numbers as well, though I'd like to look it up to be sure.

Nothing Asante Samuel accomplished this past season would have made me say, "Wow, that guy is the best corner in the NFC East." Admittedly, Rogers had much more of a chance to prove himself to me. But I got to watch two games of Newman, and two games of Samuel, and Newman has better instincts, he's a stronger cover corner, and his INT production is roughly identical, save an outliers year from Asante. So, I'm taking Newman, given what I know.

Until the argument [U]for[/U] Samuel is made, I don't have much to respond to. I can make a solid, contextual argument for either Rogers, Newman, or Webster, but if people are going to assert that Samuel is definitely the best in the division, I'd sure like to hear why.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

[quote=Mattyk72;562525]Yeah and if Ware is overrated with 20 sacks, I sure hope Orakpo can be just as overrated.[/quote]I think, when I said overrated, a lot of people read "what! He doesn't think Ware is good?"

Well, Mosley wrote this:

[quote]He's the most dynamic defender in the league right now.[/quote]The. Most. Dynamic. Defender.

That's painful to read. He's got a bunch of holes in his game. I don't think he has a hole in terms of rushing the passer. I think he takes a few plays off on the pass rush, but again, that's not uncommon for someone at that position. It does suggest, however, that he's not all that different from any other well-intentioned pass rusher.

And 20 sacks, well, that's a pretty impressive total from a pretty darned good pass rusher. So if he's going to "take his game to the next level", that means what, 23 sacks?

Okay, I call the under! Who wants to bet me on that one? D'BOYZ? $100 right now to put your money where your mouth is. I'm good for it.

Re: Ultimate Building Blocks: NFC East
 

GTripp...I don't know what to say, other than, I love where you're coming from. :food-smil