HOF Candidates
 

[url=http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/07/07/rodney-harrison-demands-your-respect/]Rodney Harrison Demands Your Respect -- NFL FanHouse[/url]

I think Rodney Harrison is a HOF saftey. But i also thought Monk was instant Hall of Fame material. Seeing less popular players have to wait I wonder if it takes away from being hall of fame, just like the pro bowl is now.

Does off the field conduct (good, bad or inactive) count towards status as a great or a pioneer of the game?

So my thought is does the Hall of Fame still hold the credibility that we give it or has it become a popularity contest? Should it?

Also does the position you play decide your greatness or should it. Does a QB or LB have more rights to being a all time great over an O tackle, TE, or D tackle? Should it?

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To me, off the field conduct SHOULD count. Just like Rose isn't in the hall as well as McGwire. If you test positive, you should be out IMO. They all know the rules, and they take their chances trying to beat the system. We all know they cheat, but we accept it cause they all do it. Problem is, the old players didn't. They had enough respect for the game not to do it. But again, just my opinion.

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They had no issue putting Michael Irvin in. He was a classless loudmouth showboat with legal issues involving crack and prostitutes. That said, he was a great player, and what he did on the field is what got him in. But a part of it is popularity as well. I don't think popularity should play a role, but as long as humans are voting, it inevitably always will. But overall the Hall of Fame is still a lofty, super highly respected thing.

I think off the field conduct should absolutely count towards your status as one of the greats and/or a pioneer of the game.

The position you play shouldn't dictate your greatness, but flashy positions like WRs and QBs are always going to get more publicity than O-lineman, fullbacks, etc.

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no way he gets in. no one should be rewarded for dirty play. and whats a canidate?

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He absolutely changed the way the position was played and his point about Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, and Bob Sanders is very valid. And the Pro Bowl is ridiculous and shouldn't even be mentioned among retired players stats. I think he was a great player but not HOF great. Even if he hadn't been caught doping he shouldn't be in but since he was he shouldn't even be considered.
As for the position argument I think only kickers and punters have an argument. Ray Guy altered the game and gave his team a huge field position advantage every game. Mosley was a league MVP but is never even considered for HOF.

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Harrison is a HOF player to me, but I won't be surprised to see the voters keep him out for a while out of spite.

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As for Harrison's credentials, he's definitely a HOF player, but I agree Matty that some of the press will keep him out for a few cycles.

It a travesty that former players don't have a say in the voting until it gets to the veterans committee which is for, basically, overlooked players. Most players thought it was a sham that it took Monk so long to get in. There are former players across the league who can make strong cases for former teammates or opponents that some schmuck writer has barely heard of and probably never watched, but will determine their worthiness for the HOF. The process is a joke, but it's the same across all sports so it probably won't change.

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I dont think off the field stuff should count toward getting into the HOF. Its about football not about being a great guy. If that was the case there would be a lot less people in there.

IMO, the HOF isnt what it used to be. I think the need to indict people every year has diluted the Hall. I think some years there just arent any players worthy of all time great status (they were very good but not HOF great) but they get considered and enshrined.

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[quote=irish;566893]I dont think off the field stuff should count toward getting into the HOF. Its about football not about being a great guy. If that was the case there would be a lot less people in there.

IMO, the HOF isnt what it used to be. I think the need to indict people every year has diluted the Hall. I think some years there just arent any players worthy of all time great status (they were very good but not HOF great) but they get considered and enshrined.[/quote]
You probably meant [i]induct[/i] not indict but I got what you were saying.

What examples of some years where non-greats were inducted can you cite to support what you are saying?

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[quote=Paintrain;566897]You probably meant [I]induct[/I] not indict but I got what you were saying.

What examples of some years where non-greats were inducted can you cite to support what you are saying?[/quote]

Name a Redskin

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[quote=Mattyk72;566903]Name a Redskin[/quote]

Are you channeling Peter King today?

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[quote=Mattyk72;566903]Name a Redskin[/quote]

If the off field stuff counts (as some think it should) then GP Marshall shouldnt be in as he was a racist.

A Skin - Art Monk

Others off the top of my head - Warren Moon, Stallworth & Swann, Thurman Thomas, Fran Tarkenton

I guess I see the HOF as a place for a few elites not for a few elites and other very goods.

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[quote=jsarno;566821]To me, off the field conduct SHOULD count. Just like Rose isn't in the hall as well as McGwire. If you test positive, you should be out IMO. They all know the rules, and they take their chances trying to beat the system. We all know they cheat, but we accept it cause they all do it. Problem is, the old players didn't. They had enough respect for the game not to do it. But again, just my opinion.[/quote]

It's different in baseball. Baseball is a stat driven sport. I can understand a baseball player not getting in because he used steriods....even though I think it's silly cause the pitchers were doing it too. In football a guy like Troy Aikman can get in even though his stats aren't what a lot of HOF QB's are because he QB'd 3 SB winning teams.

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Off the field onduct should not matter one bit. It's what someone does on the field, not off it. And that fact that sports writers vote on it is a big joke. Former players and coaches are the ones that should vote. Not a sports writer.

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[quote=jsarno;566821]To me, off the field conduct SHOULD count. Just like Rose isn't in the hall as well as McGwire. If you test positive, you should be out IMO. They all know the rules, and they take their chances trying to beat the system. We all know they cheat, but we accept it cause they all do it. Problem is, the old players didn't. They had enough respect for the game not to do it. But again, just my opinion.[/quote]

I dont think you can put Rose & McGuire in the same category because Rose broke the only rule baseball really cared about, gambling. There are signs in every locker room saying no gambling, Rose knew he shouldnt bet but he did anyway.

Roids werent illegal (in baseball) when the ball were flying out of the park so IMO, McGuire didnt break any baseball rules so to me he could go in.

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[quote=skinsfan69;566910]Off the field onduct should not matter one bit. It's what someone does on the field, not off it. And that fact that sports writers vote on it is a big joke. Former players and coaches are the ones that should vote. Not a sports writer.[/quote]

I think former player and coaches would pretty much put in the same people as the writers do. As some writers seem to have a bias, I am sure former players & coaches would too.

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[quote=irish;566908]I guess I see the HOF as a place for a few elites not for a few elites and other very goods.[/quote]

There would be debate no matter where you draw the line. Overall I think the HOF voters do a good job. Obviously there's a lot of subjectivity sprinkled in and it needs to be that way since stats alone as we all know don't tell the whole story.

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Just my two cents:
It is called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Good Play. Therefore off-the-field issues should count, as they are part of one's "fame."

Whether off-the-field issues count or not, though, I agree with Paintrain that the process of induction is flawed and should be changed.

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[quote=Lotus;566931]Just my two cents:
[B]It is called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Good Play. Therefore off-the-field issues should count, as they are part of one's "fame."[/B]

Whether off-the-field issues count or not, though, I agree with Paintrain that the process of induction is flawed and should be changed.[/quote]

I agree. I think you're representing the NFL and someone like Irvin is a piss-poor representation of what any league should want to stand for other than maybe the WWF.

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[quote=Mattyk72;566930]There would be debate no matter where you draw the line. Overall I think the HOF voters do a good job. Obviously there's a lot of subjectivity sprinkled in and it needs to be that way since stats alone as we all know don't tell the whole story.[/quote]

I agree. No matter how its done there will be complaints and the way its done now is as good as any.

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[quote=irish;566908]If the off field stuff counts (as some think it should) then GP Marshall shouldnt be in as he was a racist.

A Skin - Art Monk

Others off the top of my head - Warren Moon, Stallworth & Swann, Thurman Thomas, Fran Tarkenton

I guess I see the HOF as a place for a few elites not for a few elites and other very goods.[/quote]

Speaking of GPM...did you know that 77 years ago today the Boston Braves were formed?

Anyhow, why don't you think some of these guys you've mentioned should be in? Mainly Moon, Thomas, and Tarkenton.

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[quote=SmootSmack;566953]Speaking of GPM...did you know that 77 years ago today the Boston Braves were formed?

Anyhow, why don't you think some of these guys you've mentioned should be in? Mainly Moon, Thomas, and Tarkenton.[/quote]

I didnt know that. Thanks for the info.

I think they were very good players with nice numbers but as all time greats I just dont think they are HOF worthy. As I mentioned in a previous post, I see the HOF as a place for a few elites. As the HOF currently enshrines players these guys fit in fine but if it was up to me there'd only be half (at max) the players in that are currently there now.

I admit that my way is totally unrealistic as there just wouldnt be enough players in to make it a place worth visiting and going years without players being enshrined wouldnt work because Canton counts on people filling their hotels and restaurants every year to attend the ceremony.

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I see, I don't know I think those three guys had some pretty stellar pro careers that are worthy of the Hall of Fame.

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Honest question: should LaDainian Tomlinson be a hall of famer? How about Champ Bailey?

That, to me, is the big question of our era. Obviously, Manning and Brady are easy, along with Brett Favre, Derrick Brooks, Marvin Harrison, Tony Gonzalez and Michael Strahan. But there's other players who should be hall of famers who you simply couldn't put in if you limit the honor to only the best players ever.

Do you draw the line at those 5 time pro bowlers? Or do they get in too?

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[quote=irish;566914]I think former player and coaches would pretty much put in the same people as the writers do. As some writers seem to have a bias, I am sure former players & coaches would too.[/quote]

I agree. But IMO what gives sports writers qualification to vote on HOF players? It doesn't make sense to me. As much as we all hated to see Monk wait, Chris Carter is getting shafted big time. IMO if players were voting both Monk and Carter would not gone if right away. A guy like Rod Woodson is more qualified to vote than Peter King.

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I think a strong case could be made for both LT and CB.

I think Ray Guy of course definitely belongs in the HOF. I think Doug Flutie does too actually, and other CFL and USFL beasts, as long as it's the Pro Football Hall of Fame

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[quote=SmootSmack;566971]I think a strong case could be made for both LT and CB.

I think Ray Guy of course definitely belongs in the HOF. I think Doug Flutie does too actually, and other CFL and USFL beasts, as long as it's the Pro Football Hall of Fame[/quote]

Great point Smoot. I was surprised the first time I visited that there is only NFL players in. Its called the Pro Football HOF but its really the NFL HOF.

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There is one player in the Hall who never played in the NFL.

Can anyone name him without looking it up?

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[quote=Mattyk72;566987]There is one player in the Hall who never played in the NFL.

Can anyone name him without looking it up?[/quote]

I think I can

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[quote=Mattyk72;566987]There is one player in the Hall who never played in the NFL.

Can anyone name him without looking it up?[/quote]

Jim Thorpe?

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[quote=Lotus;566997]Jim Thorpe?[/quote]

That's a good guess, but I don't think that's right. He's more recent than that

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Not Thorpe, SS is right more recent

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Bobby Bouche'?........ Forrest Gump? ....I have no idea.

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Otto Graham? Didn't he play only in the old AAFC? (I really want to look that up but it would break the rules).

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I use to think the way alot of people do that the guys have to be perfect to be in the HOF,great career ...great all around guy, good husband and farther...never a blemish.Then the older I got I realized these guys leave the only thing they have known most of the lives and start living a new life all over,to expect them to be perfect and have no flaws ...isn't fare to them but were do you draw the line?AS for Harrison ...no I don't think he should go,he shows no regret over the suspenion and just played the game dirty.

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[quote=Giantone;567024]I use to think the way alot of people do that the guys have to be perfect to be in the HOF,great career ...great all around guy, good husband and farther...never a blemish.Then the older I got I realized these guys leave the only thing they have known most of the lives and start living a new life all over,to expect them to be perfect and have no flaws ...isn't fare to them but were do you draw the line?AS for Harrison ...no I don't think he should go,he shows no regret over the suspenion and just played the game dirty.[/quote]

I don't think someone has to be perfect to make it. No one is perfect. But the line has to be drawn somewhere. Would/should O.J. go in knowing what we know today?

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[quote=53Fan;567019]Bobby Bouche'?........ Forrest Gump? ....I have no idea.[/quote]

It's actually really hard, and not a common name when people think of football greats. First off, it's not a QB, WR, or RB (which instantly makes it a lot harder). Secondly, think of guys like Lamar Hunt, Joe Namath, Al Davis and what they were heavily involved with about 50 years ago

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[quote=Mattyk72;566987]There is one player in the Hall who never played in the NFL.

Can anyone name him without looking it up?[/quote]

More guesses:
Billy Cannon - was he not purely an AFL player?

Joe Gibbs - did he not have a short career playing in the AFL?

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Buddy Bell of the Chiefs?

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[quote=Lotus;567027]More guesses:
Billy Cannon - was he not purely an AFL player?

Joe Gibbs - did he not have a short career playing in the AFL?[/quote]


John Madden............or [B]Daniel Eugene "Rudy" Ruettiger[/B]