Brunell Revisited
 

I don't see a why lot of you think that he's a great or even capable QB. I see him throw balls high all the time. Coles drops balls because he has to outstretch all the time. He does drop a few that are thrown right to him, but the "fumble" was Brunell's fault. I see Brunell throw balls away when he doesn't have pressure on him. I see him start to run around the pocket when a blitzer gets close, but is demolished by Portis. I see him hold the ball too long. Most of all, I see why his passer rating is so high...all he does is check down. Clearly that's not all he does, but more often than not. People wonder why the Skins don't throw downfield, I guarantee Gibbs is calling the plays, but Brunell is checking down. Brunell has played 1 very good quarter of football this season. People blame clock management for the Cowboys loss, how about the check down that wasted over 10 seconds on the first play of the possession? How about the fact that he threw the last pass to Terrance Newman and Rod had to go over his back. Had he put the ball to the sideline Rod would have been out of bounds.

People say he didn't lose the Browns game: 13 of 24, 125 yards, no TD's; tell me how he did enough to win.

[QUOTE=jdlea]I don't see a why lot of you think that he's a great or even capable QB. I see him throw balls high all the time.[/QUOTE]

Come on, he RARELY throws high balls....I mean completing 1 out of every 10 deep passes is really good, creme-de-la-creme, elite, fantastic.

[QUOTE=jdlea] Coles drops balls because he has to outstretch all the time.[/QUOTE]

Just because a ball is fifteen feet above his head doesn't mean Coles has an excuse, I mean he is paid a lot after all. Go up and get it!


[QUOTE=jdlea] Brunell has played 1 very good quarter of football this season.[/QUOTE]

1 out of 16 is pretty damn good.

[QUOTE=jdlea]
People say he didn't lose the Browns game: 13 of 24, 125 yards, no TD's; tell me how he did enough to win.[/QUOTE]

Hey, just because he didn't throw a touchdown, throw more than 200 yards even though Portis only had about 3 carries in the entire second half, and had a sub-50% completion rate on dink-and-dunk passes, doesn't mean he didn't fare well statistically.

The subject of Mark Brunell is water under the bridge. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why we are 1-3. Clinton Portis 149 yds.= W. Clinton Portis 87, 94 or 58 yds = L,L and L. Clinton Portis three fumbles = 2 TD's in 2 games. The question that was just asked on NFL Network was, " Does this team still believe in Clinton Portis?" The answer will be answered if Portis does not have the kind of game that Priest Holmes had against the Ravens. Gibbs is very happy with the play of Brunell and it shows when he allowed Brunell to run a no huddle offense that was successful at moving the ball down the field in the first half. The bottom line is turnovers have killed this team. Brunell has not thrown an INT, fumbled or been sacked against the Browns. We need receivers who will hold on to the ball when it is thrown to them. Coles has not been the force that was expected and it has caught up with him. There will be changes at WR and RB, but not at QB because he has managed to lead this team down the field successfully. Last point, penalties were the knife in the back for the offense. 8/87 yards is ridiculous.

1 of 11 on 3rd Down

Here are some guys with relatively comparable numbers to Brunell this weekend:

Michael Vick was 10/18 for 148 yards on Sunday. Yet the Falcons won 24-10 over the Panthers.

Marc Bulger was 17/25 for 186 yards. Rams won 24-14 over the Niners (yes I realize it was the Niners)

Jake Plummer was 13/31 for 138 yards. Broncos won 16-13 over the Bucs (yes I realize it was the Bucs)

Broncos, Rams, and Falcons all had one thing in common that the Redskins were lacking-mistake free football, i.e. no turnovers. Brunell was not responsible for Portis' fumble and he put the ball where no one but Coles could catch it, and Coles did catch it. He has to be able to hold onto the ball on the way down, it's not like he get leveled and someone jarred the ball loose.

i don't know where you got those stats, but they're wrong.. he was 17-32 for 192 yards with 9 yards rushing...

changes at RB sunra??? i don't really think so... i don't think its realistic to think CP is gonna have a priest holmes game either, KC has a REALLY GOOD O line for running, we don't... not even close right now...

[QUOTE=That Guy]i don't know where you got those stats, but they're wrong.. he was 17-32 for 192 yards with 9 yards rushing...[/QUOTE]

who are you talking about?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Brunell wasn't brought in to be a gunslinger, he was brought in to manage the game and not turn the ball over.

For the most part he's done his job and he's still settling into the offense, just like everyone else on that side of the ball.

I'm not saying Brunell is playing great, because he's not, he definitely has room for improvement. Is he playing poorly though? Poor enough to be benched for an inexperienced strong-armed backup who has an even worse grasp of the offense and a much higher propensity for throwing INT's?

Does anyone actually remember the Giants game? Ramsey came in and threw 3 INT's in one half of football. 3 INT's!

We have enough turnover problems right now, the last thing we need is Ramsey coming in and throwing darts to the other team 2-3 times per game. Ramsey played poorly all preseason and it carried right over to the regular season. He's not ready, if he was he'd be in there without question.

[QUOTE=smootsmack]who are you talking about?[/QUOTE]
original post, brunell is listed as 17-32 and 192 yards with 9 rushing yards against the browns, and thats what i saw when i WATCHED the game ;)

thanks That Guy

Wait a minute. Are people saying that Brunell's numbers are satisfactory? (I didn't say great, poor, or sub-par....satisfactory)

I'm saying don't conclude from his stats what he did or didn't do to win the game. There were other quarterbacks with similar numbers whose teams won.

[QUOTE=smootsmack]I'm saying don't conclude from his stats what he did or didn't do to win the game. There were other quarterbacks with similar numbers whose teams won.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. His stats don't definately lead one to conclude he lost the game for us. The stats do tell me that he isn't moving the offense.

Brunell is managing the games? 4 wasted 2nd half TOs in two games? Ramsey may have thrown 3 ints in 1 half. Leading to 0 points, which hurt us a lot less than Brunells fumbles and itns in our back yard. Ramsey moved the team fine but struggled in the red zone. He didn't even play with the first offense that week, or any week before that.

The notion that Ramsey's turnovers led to 0 points is true, but misleading. He threw an interception (and yes I realized Rod dropped the previous pass) in the end zone which cost the team 6 points-not including the extra point-in a 6 point loss

And at least one of the timeouts Brunell called was because Cooley (or was it Sellers) was in the wrong formation

[QUOTE=jdlea]Coles drops balls because he has to outstretch all the time. He does drop a few that are thrown right to him, but the "fumble" was Brunell's fault.[/QUOTE]

What were you watching??? The ball was thrown perfectly to Coles. The ball wasn't even striped, Coles just dropped the ball as he was coming down. As I've said before, Coles has a middle finger that was dislocated, I've had that injury before but on my pinkie and let me tell you, IT DOESN'T HURT AT ALL WHEN ITS DISLOCATED. It hurts bigtime when the damn thing has to be reset back onto the joint. I had to go to the hospital to have mine reset into position. The nurse tried to reset it like 5 times and couldn't get it to pop back into place. By the fifth time I told the nurse to use a local anesthetic to ease the pain. My finger wasn't set back correctly and it wont straighten out right. It looks like I got 2 pinkie knuckles and its always bent like a hook. Now I got arthritis all the time. I don't know if Coles will have these problems down the road but he showed me a lot when he reset his finger without any help and didn't even come out of the game. This could be a nagging injury all season long if it wasn't reset properly.

[QUOTE=Brute44]What were you watching??? The ball was thrown perfectly to Coles. The ball wasn't even striped, Coles just dropped the ball as he was coming down.[/QUOTE]

I just watched that catch again and Brunell actually threw high, causing Coles to jump pretty high and, as you noted, the ball was dropped as he came down. Brunell threw high and Coles dropped it.

Ultimately, Coles was to blame for that one, but Brunell could've thrown the ball a bit better. Brunell didn't have to throw high to get it to Coles and avoid an INT. It's simply Brunell's tendency to throw high.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I just watched that catch again and Brunell actually threw high, causing Coles to jump pretty high and, as you noted, the ball was dropped as he came down. Brunell threw high and Coles dropped it.

Ultimately, Coles was to blame for that one, but Brunell could've thrown the ball a bit better. Brunell didn't have to throw high to get it to Coles and avoid an INT. It's simply Brunell's tendency to throw high.[/QUOTE]

Well I just looked at the replay aswell and the pass was a little high, and it also looked like the defender was right on Coles in tight coverage and the ball was thrown so Coles could get it and nobody else. If theres a tendency to throw high, its high to Coles and Coles alone.

Can anyone honestly say that Brunell is the primary reason we are 1-3??

Portis deserves to be benched more than him.

[QUOTE=jdlea] Coles drops balls because he has to outstretch all the time. He does drop a few that are thrown right to him, but the "fumble" was Brunell's fault. [/QUOTE]


How is Coles fumble Brunells fault? I don't understand how its the quarterbacks fault when the receiver caught the ball and almost came down with it and lost it. So, what did Brunell go in there and knock the ball out?

I've read all your responses guys & the fact is Gibbs's system works, it's just gonna take time for the team to adapt to his style of ball.
It's gonna turn around, we just have to be patient. I know these days we have forgot about that & we just expect to win & nothing less, but the truth is this season is all about learning the system & building chemistry.
We are a very talented team, but lack of chemistry & understanding of Gibbs's system is stalling production.
The Giants, Cowboys, Ravens, Chargers, etc... the list goes on...
We are equal to all these teams & probably better, we just need to focus & play as a team. Lavar not being on the D is an obvious loss. Lavar is a player that changes the impact of the D & he not playing has shown some weakness in certain situations.

BE PATIENT GUYS & WE WILL TURN THIS AROUND :)

Joey T tossed 20 picks his first year with Gibbs.

Gibbs isn't going to flip flop QB's, Brunell is his guy, he's had his back all season and he's going to stick with him through thick and thin.

The only way Ramsey is going to play is if Brunell gets hurt or plays himself out of the lineup, and the latter hasn't happened to date despite what people are saying.

[QUOTE=jdlea]1 of 11 on 3rd Down[/QUOTE]

I can't believe you fell for the ookie doke. This stat is the most deceptive of all stats. How many first downs did the Redskins get? 13 first downs. What down did they get the first downs on? Try first and second downs. Which means Brunell moved the ball down the field without relying on third downs to achieve a first down.

[QUOTE=Brute44]I've had that injury before but on my pinkie. My finger wasn't set back correctly and it wont straighten out right. It looks like I got 2 pinkie knuckles and its always bent like a hook.[/QUOTE]


Mine hurt Brute! But I continued on, beating my Godson at B-ball at the time! It is still bent, 5 years later!

I agree Matty! Brunell was brought in to manage the clock! That he does when the rest of the team lines up straight! Makes the yards without fumbling! Catches the ball without dropping it! Shooting itself in the foot with penalties! It's not his fault HOF Coach Gibbs won't go to a quick count/quick snap! It's not his fault HOF Coach Gibbs is stuck on a 45 second clock, and is in a time warp right now! It is not his fault, HOF Coach Gibbs throws the red flag needlessly! It's not his fault the counter plays are designed more for a Riggo styled back and not a Portis styled!

What I don't like about Brunell is the same thing I didn't like when he was in JVille! He has limitations. His arm is not Ram's arm! His hammy hurts!
He checks down without waiting!

But most of all, as was pointed out in the PS, he is a lot slower setting up in the play than Ram! His delivery is slower! His velocity is less! He cannot make up for any mistakes! In a word, he doesn't deliver value for the investment, imho! To me, it is all about value for product or service. There isn't much of his service that I like! Didn't like the trade then! Don't like it now! And now, he is HOF Gibb's main squeeze! I agree, Ram just will not get in there unless there is an injury!

MB is not the reason for the 1-3 record or the sputtering O. If the finger has to be pointed at 1 player it has to be Portis. He has done as close to nothing as an RB can do. Sure we can make up reasons about the O line not blocking well or whatever but CP was brought here with a home run hitter rep that he has not lived up to. The O will never get on track until they can establish the running game to set up the pass. IMO CP is by far the biggest bust for the skins this year and maybe even the NFL.

I have a hard time calling Portis the biggest bust in the NFL, he's still on pace for close to 1500 yards despite his struggles. All the blame can't fall on him, some of it's got to go to the offensive line.

I can't even call him the biggest bust on the team, Mike Barrow anyone?

Who was traded to get Barrow? How many draft picks were involved? Portis was brought in as a game breaker that would contribute immediately not a project or run of the mill free agent. Portis for better or worse had a lot to live up to coming to DC but thats why he's getting paid a big contract. Right now he's not getting the job done.

if you want to blame portis, blame the crappy O line for not blocking for him and not creating any push...

the fumbles are his fault, but have mainly come on first hits that should have been blocked...

I can't argue that fact that Portis isn't getting it done, but bust of the NFL? A little harsh if you ask me.

Did anyone notice on the first TD against the Bucs that Portis scored that the O line was pulling to the left when Portis cut back to the right where the hole was wide open. My question is if Portis knew that the Browns defense had an idea where he was going to run the ball, why didn't he change his course and cutback more often to break one open? Joe Gibbs reviewed the tapes of Portis's claim that the defense knew the plays and Gibbs concluded that most defenses call out all kinds of plays that suggest the team is running but turnovers are the key reason we loss this game. Portis better shape up before he's shipped out.

[quote]Portis better shape up before he's shipped out.[/quote]
umm... wtf is with all this cut portis crap?

screw it, football sucks, lets line them all up and flush the league... its not that good anyways....

[QUOTE=That Guy]umm... wtf is with all this cut portis crap?

screw it, football sucks, lets line them all up and flush the league... its not that good anyways....[/QUOTE

I'll tell you what it is. A runningback whose sole purpose on this team was to be our running game. WTF do you think will happen to him if the Tiki Barber disease rears it ugly head in the Ravens game? He insulted the team and Gibbs when he accused the Browns defense of calling the plays out. WTF did he learn about reading the defense and adjusting to it. Take your pick, 100 yds and no turnovers or sit in Dan Snyder's office and discuss your future endeavors with another team. It's been done before.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]Portis better shape up before he's shipped out.[/QUOTE]

LOL

SUNRA, the oline needs to help him... its not as good as KC or denvers right now... he's not out there alone...

four games in is a little early to threaten shipping a top 5 RB out of town...

ship portis out of town???? howd Trung do last week? mabye we should bring him back.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]Did anyone notice on the first TD against the Bucs that Portis scored that the O line was pulling to the left when Portis cut back to the right where the hole was wide open. My question is if Portis knew that the Browns defense had an idea where he was going to run the ball, why didn't he change his course and cutback more often to break one open? Joe Gibbs reviewed the tapes of Portis's claim that the defense knew the plays and Gibbs concluded that most defenses call out all kinds of plays that suggest the team is running but turnovers are the key reason we loss this game. Portis better shape up before he's shipped out.[/QUOTE]


That is what I have been saying all along, the denver system is a cut back system, they block down, the back then follow's the block until a wall emerges, he then cut's back through the hole with a strung out defense, which allow's him one on one matchup's after he get's though the hole, that type of blocking allow's him to use his excelleration, and cutting abilities. The reason he was able to break off that big run against Tampa, was because it was a draw, and on draw's you allow linemen to take themselves out, so whichever way they rush you just keep riding them that way, so if the defensive line was slanting, the line would block down, not by design, but dictated by the pass rush, essentially creating the same type of blocking pattern that Portis was used to on a regular basis in denver.

Offiss, that's a great breakdown of the system that Portis emerged from. Now if that system produced 1,500 yd seasons back to back, shouldn't we adjust our playbook to give him a chance to be the back we know he is capable of being?

Great Point!
 

[QUOTE=offiss]That is what I have been saying all along, the denver system is a cut back system, they block down, the back then follow's the block until a wall emerges, he then cut's back through the hole with a strung out defense, which allow's him one on one matchup's after he get's though the hole, that type of blocking allow's him to use his excelleration, and cutting abilities. The reason he was able to break off that big run against Tampa, was because it was a draw, and on draw's you allow linemen to take themselves out, so whichever way they rush you just keep riding them that way, so if the defensive line was slanting, the line would block down, not by design, but dictated by the pass rush, essentially creating the same type of blocking pattern that Portis was used to on a regular basis in denver.[/QUOTE]

My point as well! If we block like Denver's line did, Portis gets his yards. If we do the Counter Gap, we wind up with the usual 2 yards and a cloud of dust that we have been doing!

Great point about Barrow being a bust! Although, I'm not sure that he counts against the Salary Cap if he is hurt, and on the injurred list each week, or until the Skins put him on IR for the year! Maybe our Salary Cap friend can enlighten us!