Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Searched elsewhere for this on the wp & almost put it in an existing thread ("Lavar's twitter" led to discussion of our owner).

But I felt it was such a strong & well written article that it had to stand alone. I know a lot of us have been unhappy w/Sally Jenkins over the years, but based on my limited knowledge as only a fan, I really find it hard to disagree w/most of what she says. I've always felt the biggest difference between JJ & DS was that Jerry is at least accessible to the public & makes himself somewhat accountable.

Here's the link:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/30/AR2009093004775.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Now what i don't understand is how can people ask for Danny to get out of the spotlight but then complain when he does exactly that ? The whole shaking of the hands thing is kinda blow but I mean if you want the guy to stay in the shadows why ask for him to come out.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;600276]Now what i don't understand is how can people ask for Danny to [B]get out of the spotlight[/B] but then complain when he does exactly that ? The whole shaking of the hands thing is kinda blow but I mean if you want the guy to stay in the shadows why ask for him to come out.[/quote]

I think that's what you're misinterpreting from the article; she (and others) are not saying DS should "get out of the spotlight" because he's not in it. Rather, he's behind the scenes & very involved in the team's direction. For someone w/that much involvement & impact (of course, he is the owner), he does little to nothing in conveying a sense of responsibility to the public. Instead, he lets others take the blame, even though he may be the greatest source of the problems.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=freddyg12;600279]I think that's what you're misinterpreting from the article; she (and others) are not saying DS should "get out of the spotlight" because he's not in it. Rather, he's behind the scenes & very involved in the team's direction. For someone w/that much involvement & impact (of course, he is the owner), he does little to nothing in conveying a sense of responsibility to the public. [B]Instead, he lets others take the blame, even though he may be the greatest source of the problems[/B].[/quote]


That is what happens when you have all the money!

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Well just say that he really isn't meddling now. We know that he did before but if he's allowing Vinny to run things, and allowing the coaches to do what they want to do why blame him ? Or is it because we cannot believe anything that the man says because that is the go to excuse/reason for things going bad here ? Because in all honesty, if he meddled as much as everyone said that he did don't you think that we would have Sanchez ? Would Jason even be in the starting lineup ? So many things would be different if Snyder was the meddler that he is made out to be IMO. And his responsibility to the public. Really ? Do you think that he doesn't want to put out a winning product on the field ?

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

embrace the hate.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

In 2005 Sally definitely had an axe to grind. Every time they suffered a tough loss she wrote a column and then dissappeared after they made their run but I think her last several Redskins related articles have been spot on.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

She is spot on, but everyone has been saying this for the last 5-6 years. This is not breaking news anyone, move on along.

She does have an axe to grind, and notice how she jumps on the opportunity to write a negative Skins article which backs her original argument. She has very little to say when we do well, and alot when we are struggling. I am sick of her, and what she is saying isn't rocket science. Any Skins fan knows that.

F you Sally

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

How so ? If it was just grinding an axe, before how is it spot on now ?

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

This article is indeed spot on. The owner's role is to hire the right people and then let them do their jobs without undue interference. That's what Jack Kent Cooke did.

As fans we can defend Snyder and the management, and always question those who challenge the status quo with the team, or we can exercise our voice to demand changes. Enough public outrage does effect them. They stopped the lawsuit against the grandmother they had forced into bankruptcy over the tickets, for example, thanks to public pressure.

We have to demand a real general manager, first and foremost, someone who is given the freedom to do their job, if we want positive changes.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

I wish I had Old Danny that made Sally and everyone else act the way that they do now during the offseason because then I'd probably be a happy camper.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;600294]How so ? If it was just grinding an axe, before how is it spot on now ?[/quote]

Because in 2005 (which was 4 years ago) she was hyper-critical even though they were doing some good things. I see her commentary now as much more facts based and also we have more history to judge the shortcomings of the front office.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Sally is the queen of negativity and the master of the obvious mostly so it's not hard to be spot on in this instance.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;600276]Now what i don't understand is how can people ask for Danny to get out of the spotlight but then complain when he does exactly that ? The whole shaking of the hands thing is kinda blow but I mean if you want the guy to stay in the shadows why ask for him to come out.[/quote]

He has never been in the spotlight. I think people want him out of the football decision making which he has refused to do minus the Marty year.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Paintrain;600300]Sally is the queen of negativity and the master of the obvious mostly so it's not hard to be spot on in this instance.[/quote]


And our mediocre franchise is right in her sweetspot.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;600288]embrace the hate.[/quote]

Embraced! Ten years of losing. Kind of makes you embrace it with arms wide open.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

I don't disagree with much of what she says, but she has way to much of a problem with DS to be taken seriously. He MUST have pissed in her cornflakes somewhere along the way.......

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;600287]Well just say that he really isn't meddling now. We know that he did before but if he's allowing Vinny to run things, and allowing the coaches to do what they want to do why blame him ? Or is it because we cannot believe anything that the man says because that is the go to excuse/reason for things going bad here ? Because in all honesty, [B]if he meddled as much as everyone said that he did don't you think that we would have Sanchez ? Would Jason even be in the starting lineup ?[/B] So many things would be different if Snyder was the meddler that he is made out to be IMO. And his responsibility to the public. Really ? Do you think that he doesn't want to put out a winning product on the field ?[/quote]

These are good questions, and I doubt any of us honestly knows the answers. But the issue of the questions could also be posed a different way; was Snyder the only one behind the attempt at getting Sanchez? i.e. did vinny & zorn have any weight in the matter? Much of the reason he couldn't land him was he didn't have much to offer. JC might be the starter in spite of Snyder, but that doesn't mean DS didn't try hard to find his replacement.

This really isn't about "meddling" per se, it's about leadership & management style. To sum it up, is Snyder effective in this regard? I think there is evidence to say, no he isn't. He is obviously a good ceo in terms of increasing the value of his company, but not in building a winning team.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Well at least she's not banging on who Snyder hangs out with. I can live with what she said in this article.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Mattyk72;600309]Well at least she's not banging on who Snyder hangs out with. I can live with what she said in this article.[/quote]

:lol:

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;600291]In 2005 Sally definitely had an axe to grind. Every time they suffered a tough loss she wrote a column and then dissappeared after they made their run but I think her last several Redskins related articles have been spot on.[/quote]


I agree, I read her article last night and am of the opinion what she had to say only echoes what she's said many times before, as well as the opinions expressed by many here from time to time, see last thread on Snyder. Her opinion IMO is not an attack on Snyder personally, it's the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts some people.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

She makes it sound like Snyder has never claimed responsibility for anything. And people here make it sound like Jack Kent Cooke never inquired about what was happening on the field or made his opinion felt

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Sally is right when she says that the success or failure of an NFL team starts at the top. That's because the owner is ultimately responsible for putting the right executives in place to get the job done.

With that obvious point out of the way, everything else she said is bullshit.

She doesn't have a clue about what is really going on in the Redskins organization. If she were to climb down from her catbird seat in her highrise Manhattan apartment and come to Washington now and then to sample the mood at Redskins Park, then she might learn something of value that she could impart to the rest of us.

You know that the powers at the Washington Post must truly hate Dan Snyder when they will pay someone who lives in NY and does no actual reporting to routinely trash him.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600316]She makes it sound like Snyder has never claimed responsibility for anything. And people here make it sound like Jack Kent Cooke never inquired about what was happening on the field or made his opinion felt[/quote]

Sure, it's a fairly broad brush she's painting with, but that's intentional in that she notes 10 years is long enough to establish a track record. As a fan though, I can only remember a few interviews prior to the season opening in which DS said he's "learned" from his mistakes. I don't recall him doing any tv interviews or making any public addresses to the fans. He clearly wants to dictate the terms of any media relations, which takes a lot of effort these days, and adds to the poor perception of him, fair or not.

JKC definitely ran the team in a completely different way. Of course, he questioned his coaches, he was very hard on Gibbs when the team was off to an 0-5 start. But he had a structure in place that worked to build a winner. When asked about Art Monk leaving, JKC said that he wasn't going to step in because then he would be doing someone else's job, but he said sadly that the whole thing was mismanaged. That's an unfortunate example, but the best one I can recall in terms of him saying that he stayed out of personnel.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=freddyg12;600321]Sure, it's a fairly broad brush she's painting with, but that's intentional in that she notes 10 years is long enough to establish a track record. As a fan though, I can only remember a few interviews prior to the season opening in which DS said he's "learned" from his mistakes. I don't recall him doing any tv interviews or making any public addresses to the fans. He clearly wants to dictate the terms of any media relations, which takes a lot of effort these days, and adds to the poor perception of him, fair or not.

JKC definitely ran the team in a completely different way. Of course, he questioned his coaches, he was very hard on Gibbs when the team was off to an 0-5 start. But he had a structure in place that worked to build a winner. When asked about Art Monk leaving, JKC said that he wasn't going to step in because then he would be doing someone else's job, but he said sadly that the whole thing was mismanaged. That's an unfortunate example, but the best one I can recall in terms of him saying that he stayed out of personnel.[/quote]

Well it's assumed that JKC ran the team in a completely different way

But let me ask you this then...just how many owners in the NFL do we hear from during the season? How many make public addresses to fans? How many say "my fault'?

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

So glad I didn't pick up season tickets. $30-50 for nosebleeds.

[url=http://www.stubhub.com/washington-redskins-tickets/redskins-vs-buccaneers-fedexfield-788648/]Washington Redskins vs Tampa Bay Buccaneers at StubHub![/url]

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

I am coming around on the Snyder-is-the-problem argument. But the kicker is it isn't because of anything anyone has said. Not a single thing a former player, journalist or fan has ever said has affected my thoughts. What is affecting my thoughts are the results. Obviously something ain't right and Snyder is the linchpin so it appears there is a good chance it is him.

That aside, what drives me nuts is all the stuff people say basically comes down to this: "He is bad". There's no context...there's no contrasting to other more successful owners in a meaningful way. What exactly does he do that is wrong? Is he the only owner doing this? All the arguments break down in my mind because those making the arguments make no attempt to show they actually know WTF they're talking about. If you want to make an argument that he isn't very good based on results I can buy that...it doesn't help achieve a better understanding though and is therefore basically a pointless discussion. If you want to argue that specific things he does are bad then tell me why...prove it. Otherwise I don't know what to think and my default mindset is that if you can't tell me why then you don't actually understand and therefore your opinion is worthless. I am tired of hearing he sucks...someone tell me what it is that he does wrong...not what you think it is. I suspect most can't do that and I suspect most of the reasons aren't very good at all.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600324]Well it's assumed that JKC ran the team in a completely different way

But let me ask you this then...just how many owners in the NFL do we hear from during the season? How many make public addresses to fans? How many say "my fault'?[/quote]

Exactly...I strongly suspect that a lot of what DS does is done by many other owners. Everyone acts like all the owners in every other city act so differently but no one one proves it. Again, I am tired of hearing "it" and want to hear "why" what he does is bad. There are 31 other teams, some very successful on a consistent basis. What is it that the owners in those cities do that makes them better?

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Sally has bashed the organization for a long time. When the team is losing she's on her high horse smiling. When the team is winning you don't hear from her.

but what is getting under my skin more is the fans are starting to complain, the media is starting to complain, and now there is damage control happening. If there is anything taking place on this team to correct the problems no one sees it. Yet Zorn comes on Redskins Nation and touts how the team is getting better. The players are showing up on the media circles saying "It's only 3 games", "Give us a chance", "Hang in there with us", etc. etc. etc. It feels like a Pep rally to keep spirits up and I just don't feel it. If anything to me it's making it worse. For me. I can't speak to everyone elses feelings.

If everyone can take a moment to reflect...when Spurrier was here all the players where saying the same sort of things. After Spurrier left is when we heard about all the stupid stuff that went on and how the players didn't buy into the system that was not working. Maybe we will hear something interesting about Zorn some day also.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

At least Jerry Jones admits the he's making lots of personnel decisions and meets regularly with the media to discuss, explain and defend those positions. Snyder's too gutless to come out of the shadows, acknowledge what everyone already knows is the truth and face the music. Coaches and GMs around the league meet with the media to discuss and explain their decisions. Snyder, as the main personnel decision-maker, should do the same. It's cowardly to do otherwise.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600324]Well it's assumed that JKC ran the team in a completely different way

But let me ask you this then...just how many owners in the NFL do we hear from during the season? How many make public addresses to fans? How many say "my fault'?[/quote]I don't assume JKC ran the team differently, I know it. I was there for that era, too. One other thing JKC did differently: He won Super Bowls.

Most owners don't talk a lot during the season because most owners aren't making personnel decisions the way Snyder does. An owner who is as involved as Snyder is Jerry Jones and he speaks to the media all the time about what is going on with the team. Whatever one wants to say about Jerry Jones, at least he doesn't hide from people trying to hold him accountable for what he does. Jones generally makes poor decisions [hiring Jimmy Johnson and letting him run the team for 5 years was about the only good football decision I can think of Jones making], but at least Jones will talk about them publicly and on the record. That's a lot more than you get from Snyder.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SBXVII;600330]Sally has bashed the organization for a long time. When the team is losing she's on her high horse smiling. When the team is winning you don't hear from her.

but what is getting under my skin more is the fans are starting to complain, the media is starting to complain, and now there is damage control happening. If there is anything taking place on this team to correct the problems no one sees it.[B] Yet Zorn comes on Redskins Nation and touts how the team is getting better. The players are showing up on the media circles saying "It's only 3 games", "Give us a chance", "Hang in there with us", etc. etc. etc. It feels like a Pep rally to keep spirits up and I just don't feel it. If anything to me it's making it worse. For me. I can't speak to everyone elses feelings.[/B]

If everyone can take a moment to reflect...when Spurrier was here all the players where saying the same sort of things. After Spurrier left is when we heard about all the stupid stuff that went on and how the players didn't buy into the system that was not working. Maybe we will hear something interesting about Zorn some day also.[/quote]

Yeah the majority of the messages being sent out are along those lines, trying to stay positive, but if you've paid attention you see D. Hall wondering if guys really want it. You hear Carlos Rogers saying that the team lacks an identity right now. You hear Fletcher say this isn't a great team. Today, Haynesworth said the team isn't playing up to it's potential.

Feel better? It's not all a pep rally.

But of course guys are gonna try to stay positive for the most part. It's a long season. I do think the fan/media freak out frenzy has been a bit over the top lately.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Spence;600337]At least Jerry Jones admits the he's making lots of personnel decisions and meets regularly with the media to discuss, explain and defend those positions. Snyder's too gutless to come out of the shadows, acknowledge what everyone already knows is the truth and face the music. Coaches and GMs around the league meet with the media to discuss and explain their decisions. [B]Snyder, as the main personnel decision-maker, should do the same.[/B] It's cowardly to do otherwise.[/quote]

This has to be the ultimate point of contention, what proof do you have that he is the main personnel decision-maker? or how do you define that statement?

He certainly has a weighted input, but once he hires a coach, he seems to let that coach get what he wants. Now if you are saying that because he signs the checks he is the main personnel decision-maker, then every owner is by definition the "main personnel decision-maker".

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Spence;600340]I don't assume JKC ran the team differently, I know it. I was there for that era, too. One other thing JKC did differently: He won Super Bowls.

Most owners don't talk a lot during the season because most owners aren't making personnel decisions the way Snyder does. An owner who is as involved as Snyder is Jerry Jones and he speaks to the media all the time about what is going on with the team. Whatever one wants to say about Jerry Jones, at least he doesn't hide from people trying to hold him accountable for what he does. Jones generally makes poor decisions [hiring Jimmy Johnson and letting him run the team for 5 years was about the only good football decision I can think of Jones making], but at least Jones will talk about them publicly and on the record. That's a lot more than you get from Snyder.[/quote]

Could it just be a difference in personalities with Jones/Syder?

Jones is not camera shy and seems to enjoy being in the limelight. From the day Snyder took over the team he's never been one to do extensive interviews or look for much face time on camera. Jones on the other hand goes out and has had plastic surgery to his face for crying out loud. Jones also goes down on the field during games as we've all seen a million times and he let HBO film Hard Knocks with them and he seemed to be in nearly every shot.

Snyder just seems more comfortable saying in the background to me. And I really don't think he's as involved in football decisions as Jones is. Jones is clearly in a GM role there. Snyder at the very worst is 50/50 with Vinny, and I'm not sure he's even that heavily involved.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=freddyg12;600321]Sure, it's a fairly broad brush she's painting with, but that's intentional in that she notes 10 years is long enough to establish a track record. As a fan though, I can only remember a few interviews prior to the season opening in which DS said he's "learned" from his mistakes. I don't recall him doing any tv interviews or making any public addresses to the fans. He clearly wants to dictate the terms of any media relations, which takes a lot of effort these days, and adds to the poor perception of him, fair or not.

JKC definitely ran the team in a completely different way. Of course, he questioned his coaches, he was very hard on Gibbs when the team was off to an 0-5 start. But he had a structure in place that worked to build a winner. When asked about Art Monk leaving, JKC said that he wasn't going to step in because then he would be doing someone else's job, but he said sadly that the whole thing was mismanaged. That's an unfortunate example, but the best one I can recall in terms of him saying that he stayed out of personnel.[/quote]


Plus, in all the years JKC owned the team, I never saw him in the war room on draft day.

The only interview I've seen of late with snyder where he was afforded the opportunity to speak about his hands on approach was with LM. He was asked about the possibility of hiring a GM and his response was "If it ain't broke don't fix it. Therefore it's painfully obvious that he thinks what he's doing works. If that be true, why is he constantly hiring and firing coaches every two years?

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Spence;600340]I don't assume JKC ran the team differently, I know it. I was there for that era, too. One other thing JKC did differently: He won Super Bowls.

Most owners don't talk a lot during the season because most owners aren't making personnel decisions the way Snyder does. An owner who is as involved as Snyder is Jerry Jones and he speaks to the media all the time about what is going on with the team. Whatever one wants to say about Jerry Jones, at least he doesn't hide from people trying to hold him accountable for what he does. Jones generally makes poor decisions [hiring Jimmy Johnson and letting him run the team for 5 years was about the only good football decision I can think of Jones making], but at least Jones will talk about them publicly and on the record. That's a lot more than you get from Snyder.[/quote]

I think Danny has stepped back over time from personnel processes. Otherwise many of our recent personnel moves would be different. I just don't see Danny's fingerprints the way that I used to.

I think it is time to move on with a new perception of Danny's roles.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Spence;600337]At least Jerry Jones admits the he's making lots of personnel decisions and meets regularly with the media to discuss, explain and defend those positions. Snyder's too gutless to come out of the shadows, acknowledge what everyone already knows is the truth and face the music. Coaches and GMs around the league meet with the media to discuss and explain their decisions. Snyder, as the main personnel decision-maker, should do the same. It's cowardly to do otherwise.[/quote]

Could you give us a few links of JJ coming out all the time admitting he made mistakes?

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Lotus;600349]I think Danny has stepped back over time from personnel processes. Otherwise many of our recent personnel moves would be different. I just don't see Danny's fingerprints the way that I used to.

I think it is time to move on with a new perception of Danny's roles.[/quote]

Very well said.

One problem is alot of people hang on to first impressions, especially when the change in behaviour is moderate or slow paced. No one is saying that DS is not involved, but he is learning to relegate himself and his opinions to a lower spot on the decision making totem pole.

a few questions for antiSnyders, and I don't know the answer, how long was JKC owner before he won his first superbowl?
Division Title?
Had a winning percentage as an owner?

I would be really curious to know those answers.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Yes you do assume. Dan Snyder is not the general manager of the Redskins, Jerry Jones is the general manager of the Cowboys. Everyone wants Snyder to just say "Ok, I admit it. I'm the GM of the team. Haha, you got me. But, as hard as it is for everyone to believe, that's not the case. He is not the GM. His involvement is not the same as Jones' involvement with the Cowboys.

Snyder steps in as an abritrator between Zorn and Cerrato if necessary (just like JKC did), Snyder gets involved with signing the contract approving the money to be spent (just like JKC), Snyder gets involved, very involved, in sponsorship deals.

Snyder is consulted on roster decisions (just like JKC was). Snyder asks about certain players (just like JKC did).

Jenkins says Zorn was Snyder's selection and he should take responsibility for it. Norv Turner was JKC's selection, but I can't remember him taking responsibility for the Redskins being 3-13 in 1994, or starting 1-3 in 1995, or blowing a 7-1 start in 1996?

This isn't mean to hate on JKC at all, I thought he was a great owner. But there seems to be a lot of revisionist history about him.

As for Snyder never publicly admitting his mistakes

[url=http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/sports/1679.html]The Dan Snyder You Don't Know - Sports (washingtonian.com)[/url]

In his first three years as owner of the Redskins, Dan Snyder was much more successful at establishing a foundation and giving away money than at running the franchise.

“I made some real stupid decisions,” he says. “I made a lot of mistakes. I’m human.”
Snyder took over the Washington Redskins on July 14, 1999. He inherited Norv Turner as coach and Charley Casserly as general manager.

“They were fighting like cats and dogs,” he says. “We were in trouble. I couldn’t have these two guys sniping at one another.”

So he fired Casserly in September.

“You fired the wrong guy,” Casserly told him.

“If you’re right,” Snyder shot back, “you’ll be one of the first to know.”

Snyder also fired a bunch of longtime front-office workers. He brought in his own PR team, lead by Karl Swanson.

Hoping for a quick trip to the Super Bowl, he paid big money for aging stars Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders.

Snyder stuck with Norv Turner through the 1999 season, which was lackluster. With three games left in the 2000 season, the Redskins had a 7–6 record, and Snyder lost patience. He called Turner into his office at 11 am on December 4 and let him go.

“It was one of my worst moves,” he says. “It was plain stupid. I was a new owner pissed about losing.”

It was also the first move that showed fans and reporters Dan Snyder’s impatient side. In business, Snyder could replace a manager in the dead of night with a phone call. The Redskins were considered a public utility, and every move was blared in the media and dissected on sports-radio talk shows.

After Snyder fired Turner, he says, he called Casserly and said, “You were right.”

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-news/24642-wsj-interview-with-dan-snyder.html[/url]

WSJ: Do you see the term micromanaging as being a media-driven one or do you think there are some people who think you might be a little too involved on a day-to-day basis?

Mr. Snyder: I probably was when I first got here.

Early on I probably didn't have the level of patience needed to take place when you're talking about this sport of NFL football, because it really is a building process. You build through free-agency and the draft and I think that if you can look over the years you'd see a lot of improvement over how the club goes about getting players and keeping players and re-signing our existing players.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

SS that was a great post.