Analisis, And Then Some!
 

I said it when we traded for Portis, and I said it when we traded for Brunell, Portis IS A SYSTEM BACK! he is incapable of breaking a tackle, we paid 50 mil. for a change of pace type 3rd down back, and that is why Denver wasen't about to give him a pay raise, he will go no further than where contact is made, then he's dropped dead in his track's. I am not just rating his running based on production, I am basing it on how he run's, you can see he's nothing special, we already had a nothing special kind of back with speed in Trung.

There is a reason Coughlin wanted to trade Brunell when he was coach of the Jag's, he fought with managment to try and do so, but they wouldn't let him, Brunell was a playmaker, not a thrower, a lot like Vick, I ask you, take away Vick's speed, and mobility, and who would want him? Well, Brunell can't move any more, and every throw he makes he's falling backward's, end of story. Ramsey is the perfect QB for Gibb's, if he just give him a chance, but Gibb's is in love with stat's since he's come back, I believe he think's he's coaching fantasy football, we have almost 100 mil. invested in 2 player's, when we already had better on our own team, and defiently would have had better with the pick's we would have obtained from Champ, and Brunell.

Ray Charles lives, as our booth official!

Chad Morton is another guy who fall's down if somebody's shadow get's to close! Defiently another bad signing.

I have been backing Bett's probably more than anybody here, but after that play with Reed, I would have cut him on the spot, not only does he not even attempt to throw a real block, after Reed run's by him, he stand's there watching him get ready to blindside Brunell, knowing that there could be a possible fumble, then when he actually start's for the ball, he takes a ridiculous angle, and with all that he still had a chance to tackle him and he blow's it.

On second thought I wouldn't cut him, I would have him tarred, and feathered!

Defense was tremendous, other than Marshall losing containment on 3rd and 3 late in the game, and letting Lewis get to the outside, [I still have no clue what he was doing on that one], no complaint's. they gave up 3 point's all night, considering they were on the field all night, outstanding!

Offensive line, lousy, can't run block, regardless of how average I think Portis is, the worst back in the league should be able to run the ball better than we do.

Their pass blocking wasen't bad, Brunell had some time, he just act's like he's under pressure.

Gibb's? If he's going to turn this thing around, he better start cracking the whip, and it start's with his hiring of Ray Charles, there is no need to see any more from this guy, he's as incompetent a replay official as can be!

Portis just isnt a straight ahead 230lb back which is how he's been played, and without a fullyknit Oline to boot, AND vs. 8men cuz of no air game. get him a decent fullback/leadblocker and some designed plays for his speed (a tight passing game is too much to wish for right now) and you will all eat your words.

Damn offiss, Ray Charles would be rolling over in his grave if he heard you comparing him to that replay official we've got.

Show Ray some respect, the man's a legend!

[QUOTE=illdefined]Portis just isnt a straight ahead 230lb back which is how he's been played, and without a fullyknit Oline to boot, AND vs. 8men cuz of no air game. get him a decent fullback/leadblocker and some designed plays for his speed (a tight passing game is too much to wish for right now) and you will all eat your words.[/QUOTE]

No I wont, because I have been saying that all along, the problem is I don't see us changing our entire offense for him, which mean's he is not a conventional back, we do have some of the best lead blocker's on our team, there called TE's, and H-back's, personally I believe the biggest problem with Portis is Brunell's inability to pass, no one respect's it, if they did, Portis would be much more effective on quick draw's, and screen's, that would keep the D from loading up, but don't kid yourself now, Portis IS NOT A SPECIAL BACK, PERIOD! Can he play better than he has? Yes, but so could a lot of other back's.

[QUOTE=smootsmack]Damn offiss, Ray Charles would be rolling over in his grave if he heard you comparing him to that replay official we've got.

Show Ray some respect, the man's a legend![/QUOTE]


Sorry SS, I now want to take a second to send out my most humble apology to the Charles family, I in no way had any ill intention's by comparing our official, to MR.Charles, I didn't take into account how humiliating it must be, to be compared to our replay official, there is no doubt in my mind, that if Ray was still with us, he could have ran his hand's over the TV screen, and made a better assesment, again, I hope the Charles family accept's my humble apology.

[QUOTE=offiss]No I wont, because I have been saying that all along, the problem is I don't see us changing our entire offense for him, which mean's he is not a conventional back, we do have some of the best lead blocker's on our team, there called TE's, and H-back's, personally I believe the biggest problem with Portis is Brunell's inability to pass, no one respect's it, if they did, Portis would be much more effective on quick draw's, and screen's, that would keep the D from loading up, but don't kid yourself now, Portis IS NOT A SPECIAL BACK, PERIOD! Can he play better than he has? Yes, but so could a lot of other back's.[/QUOTE]

like i said in another thread, i already see Gibbs changing the offense more for him by seeing Cooley line up as a lead fullback in I Formation this game. Cooley is a catching TE, and this is all new to him too, but i definitely noticed this new wrinkle to the offense. while it didn't net many yards against an 8men Raven defense who wasnt worried about our passing game, it DID stop the fumbling at point of impact...

[QUOTE=offiss]Sorry SS, I now want to take a second to send out my most humble apology to the Charles family, I in no way had any ill intention's by comparing our official, to MR.Charles, I didn't take into account how humiliating it must be, to be compared to our replay official, there is no doubt in my mind, that if Ray was still with us, he could have ran his hand's over the TV screen, and made a better assesment, again, I hope the Charles family accept's my humble apology.[/QUOTE]

:rofl:

[QUOTE=illdefined]like i said in another thread, i already see Gibbs changing the offense more for him by seeing Cooley line up as a lead fullback in I Formation this game. Cooley is a catching TE, and this is all new to him too, but i definitely noticed this new wrinkle to the offense. while it didn't net many yards against an 8men Raven defense who wasnt worried about our passing game, it DID stop the fumbling at point of impact...[/QUOTE]


That is really nothing new for Gibb's, we used to do it all the time, the TE [usually warren] was leading a block, but it came from different places, not just the backfield, many times the TE goes in motion, then hit's the hole,

I couldn't be more impressed with Cooley, although he was a great recieving H-back in college, he also had a rep as a tremendous blocker, he won some kind of award for it, I believe we have a real find on our hand's, that kid is tough.

I do think it's time for Ramsey. Ramsey actually gives us a threat to go down the field. Anything Brunell throws over 10 yds looks like a hail mary heave. That INT to Deion in double coverage was a prayer. Ramsey has a cannon and I don't think he'll consistantly make mistakes like he did against the Giants. I'd rather turn the ball over deep in opposing territory spreading the field than constantly go 3 and out losing the field position battle the entire time. Spread the field and teams won't have 8 guys in the box on every play.

[QUOTE=Luxorreb]I do think it's time for Ramsey. Ramsey actually gives us a threat to go down the field. Anything Brunell throws over 10 yds looks like a hail mary heave. That INT to Deion in double coverage was a prayer. Ramsey has a cannon and I don't think he'll consistantly make mistakes like he did against the Giants. I'd rather turn the ball over deep in opposing territory spreading the field than constantly go 3 and out losing the field position battle the entire time. Spread the field and teams won't have 8 guys in the box on every play.[/QUOTE]


I was going to put that in another thread about the 3 and out's, compared to a Ramsey turnover, you nailed it lux baby. Now will Gibb's and co. swallow their pride and admit I was right from the very beggining, Ramsey is better now, and will be 10 times the QB Brunell is. I will be waiting for a letter of apology! :headbange

i completely disagree on portis... the blocking just hasn't been there... he can get yards super quick though. he is far from average... betts is average.

As much as I've been disappointed by Portis's performance thus far, I tend to agree more with illdefined's assessment of the running game.

The problem isn't Portis so much as it is the run blocking schemes and the failure to execute them properly. While it's true that the Redskins have a couple of decent blockers in TEs Rasby and Cooley, they have rarely been used as lead blockers. They're generally playing in-line, which means they aren't actually leading Portis into the hole. The problem with that is the O-line has done a poor job of moving off of double teams and hitting the linebackers. When they do get to the linebackers, they do a poor job of sustaining their blocks. Since there's no fullback on most of the plays, there's no lead blocker to take on the linebackers, nor to create a misdirection to freeze the linebackers. Portis is forced to deal with the linebackers entirely on his own in a lot of cases, and there are very few runningbacks that are capable of doing that successfully. Any great running attack is based on the blockers getting to the second level, and it's just not happening with any consistency for the Redskins. The blockers are too slow and aren't throwing the devastating blocks you see from great O-lines.

As far as Brunell goes, he is the primary reason defenses have been keeping 8 and 9 men in the box to keep Portis in check. He's unwilling and unable to throw the deep ball, and is far too quick to throw the ball away, even when the pressure from the pass rush isn't really there. I think Ramsey would do a far better job of getting the ball to the receivers, and is far more capable of stretching the field with his arm. Yes, there is greater risk with Ramsey in there-- he will probably throw more INTs than Brunell- but he'll also throw a lot more TDs, too. Ramsey simply does a better job of moving the offense down the field. This offense needs a spark, and Ramsey is capable of providing it. Brunell is simply no longer a threat. In order to make a defense back away from the line of scrimmage, you have to make them fear the deep ball. Brunell can't do that. Ramsey can.

And yes, the replay challenges have been horrible. I can't believe they're paying someone to make boneheaded decisions like that.

Morton has 8 guys on top of him by the time the ball gets there. I prefer a faircatch to a fumble! He also made a great play when he got us out to the 40 with the stretch -n- catch.

that was a real heaeds up play... i never even knew about that rule. chad tupa and hall are the best parts of special teams... danny smith and the blocking is crappy... coverage has been up and down...

I cried last night the Redskins are not any good. I hope they get better. I don't have an anlysis but one. the same ole redskins.

Offis those are harsh words. you dissing Brunnell , Portis , Vick and everybody!!!!! We have been in several different offensive and defensive schemes the last few years Peyton Manning has been in one for 6 years they spend all their money on his offensive line tightends and receivers but they have no defense. give it some time but this year the redskins suck. some years they suck be a fan the days of Riggo are gone.

Offis those are harsh words. you dissing Brunnell , Portis , Vick and everybody!!!!! We have been in several different offensive and defensive schemes the last few years Peyton Manning has been in one for 6 years they spend all their money on his offensive line tightends and receivers but they have no defense. give it some time but this year the redskins suck. some years they suck be a fan the days of Riggo are gone.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Morton has 8 guys on top of him by the time the ball gets there. I prefer a faircatch to a fumble! He also made a great play when he got us out to the 40 with the stretch -n- catch.[/QUOTE]


Unfortunately Chad's head's up play yesterday was the best thing he has done in a Redskins uniform. A complete waste of money.

[QUOTE=offiss]
a lot like Vick, I ask you, take away Vick's speed, and mobility, and who would want him?[/QUOTE]
Vick has got one of the strongest arms in the league. he hasnt been running this year and he has not been extremly effective because he is learning a new system. but there 4 and one. i'd take that

What about the run-back last year. In order for your return man to return, you need to BLOCK him!

PORTIS is not the problem with the running game. We FINALLY saw a few passes into the flat last night. A couple had moderate success. The other two had great potential, but were totally botched by a bad pass, and a late pass (due to a bobbled snap by Brunell). On the rest of the plays going into the line, he either had a guy on him immediately after getting the ball, or there was ABSOLUTELY no space to run anywhere.

As far as Portis breaking tackles, you could not be more wrong. HIS method of "breaking" tackles is exactly like Barry Sanders. He "breaks" them by avoiding them with jukes and spin moves. I'll take that in a RB ANY time. Gibbs needs to get him into a situation where his massive skills have a CHANCE to be used. Then he will pay off big time.

Amen, Hogskin.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]PORTIS is not the problem with the running game. We FINALLY saw a few passes into the flat last night. A couple had moderate success. The other two had great potential, but were totally botched by a bad pass, and a late pass (due to a bobbled snap by Brunell). On the rest of the plays going into the line, he either had a guy on him immediately after getting the ball, or there was ABSOLUTELY no space to run anywhere.

As far as Portis breaking tackles, you could not be more wrong. HIS method of "breaking" tackles is exactly like Barry Sanders. He "breaks" them by avoiding them with jukes and spin moves. I'll take that in a RB ANY time. Gibbs needs to get him into a situation where his massive skills have a CHANCE to be used. Then he will pay off big time.[/QUOTE]

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, don't compare Portis to Sander's again! :nono: :stop:

what is analisis??

sounds like some kinda porn thing or somethin

LOL

[QUOTE=denim_monger]what is analisis??

sounds like some kinda porn thing or somethin

LOL[/QUOTE]

You know what I did that once before, you think I would learn. :rofl: of coarse I was describing the way we have been playing. lol

[QUOTE=offiss]PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, don't compare Portis to Sander's again! :nono: :stop:[/QUOTE]

Portis' STYLE is VERY similar to Barry Sanders' STYLE!!!!

Portis' STYLE is VERY similar to Barry Sanders' STYLE!!!!

Portis' STYLE is VERY similar to Barry Sanders' STYLE!!!!

Portis' STYLE is VERY similar to Barry Sanders' STYLE!!!!

Portis' STYLE is VERY similar to Barry Sanders' STYLE!!!!

Portis' STYLE is VERY similar to Barry Sanders' STYLE!!!!

But you are right. Portis had a MUCH lower percentage of plays that lost yardage. Now, if he can just get back to having a line that is only as bad a DETROIT's at run blocking (we are far worse), then he will be back on track!!

The blame for our running woes has to go to the line AND to Portis.

He's just so indecisive right now, even when there's a hole he seems tentative to hit it, it looks like he's thinking there's a better option and instead of believing what he's seeing he keeps looking, and looking.

They mentioned something like that during the game last night, Portis said he's thinking too much right now and not just running.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]The blame for our running woes has to go to the line AND to Portis.

He's just so indecisive right now, even when there's a hole he seems tentative to hit it, it looks like he's thinking there's a better option and instead of believing what he's seeing he keeps looking, and looking.

They mentioned something like that during the game last night, Portis said he's thinking too much right now and not just running.[/QUOTE]

That's RIGHT, Matty. I forgot about that. And the amazing thing about that was that he was also purported to have said He was being overcoached by Byner, and THAT was his explanation for the cause of the problem. Someone here (don't remember who) suggested that last week, and it was widely poo-poo'ed. Interesting.

P.S. offiss - I was just funnin' in that earlier post!!

That's because he's doing what everyone is saying he should do and trying to be more patient....but that's not his style of running. I think [I]eventually[/I], Gibbs will find a happy medium in terms of play calling to suit Portis' style and talents, while keeping the "power running" aspect.....[I]eventually[/I]. Hopefully soon!

[QUOTE=Hogskin]Portis' STYLE is VERY similar to Barry Sanders' STYLE!!!!

Portis' STYLE is VERY similar to Barry Sanders' STYLE!!!!

Portis' STYLE is VERY similar to Barry Sanders' STYLE!!!!

Portis' STYLE is VERY similar to Barry Sanders' STYLE!!!!

Portis' STYLE is VERY similar to Barry Sanders' STYLE!!!!

Portis' STYLE is VERY similar to Barry Sanders' STYLE!!!!

But you are right. Portis had a MUCH lower percentage of plays that lost yardage. Now, if he can just get back to having a line that is only as bad a DETROIT's at run blocking (we are far worse), then he will be back on track!![/QUOTE]


:argue: :silly: Again stop comparing Portis to Sander's, and now I will tell you why, Sander's used to make something out of nothing all the time, Portis makes nothing out of nothing all the time, blocking, or no blocking, sander's would get his yard's, probably the best ever at that, maybe W Payton would come close, we have seen what Portis does without blocking, stop listening to these pre game show's trying to market, and promote, NFL player's, remember this is an election year, I have seen Barry Sander's, and I have watched him run, Mr. Portis, you are no Barry Sander's! :nono:

So now "Portis is no Priest", and he's no Barry either??? I guess he'll just have to be PORTIS.
Offiss, calm down, he was just saying he is has a similar style of running. i.e. a big power-back could have the same STYLE of running as Riggo, but that does not mean he is in the same class as Riggo. It's a style thing, not a talent thing.....although I believe Portis does have the potential to be a top RB....maybe not quite up there with Sanders, but still up there....again, I said [I]potential[/I].

[QUOTE=offiss]:argue: :silly: Again stop comparing Portis to Sander's, and now I will tell you why, Sander's used to make something out of nothing all the time, Portis makes nothing out of nothing all the time, blocking, or no blocking, sander's would get his yard's, probably the best ever at that, maybe W Payton would come close, we have seen what Portis does without blocking, stop listening to these pre game show's trying to market, and promote, NFL player's, remember this is an election year, I have seen Barry Sander's, and I have watched him run, Mr. Portis, you are no Barry Sander's! :nono:[/QUOTE]

Offiss - don't take it personally.

Actually, I have not seen Portis compared to Sanders - least of all on a pregame show!! I was simply comparing their STYLE (I repeated it several times hoping you would notice that). And it was based solely on my almost 60 years of watching and analyzing - not something I HEARD. Sayers also had a very similar style. There have been very few runners that had that "style" of running. It is beautiful to watch. It is a combination of great moves, general elusiveness, great vision, speed, and a huge amount of desire. I see all of that in Portis. I would have LOVED to see Barry Sanders behind Denver's line. I would have HATED to see him behind this year's Redskin line. Don't even try to compare Detroit's weak line with this line that is totally inept at run blocking. If Barry Sanders were running around behind OUR line like he did so often in Detroit. There would be no linemen running around finding guys to block. They would be watching.

And as great as Barry Sanders was, don't forget that when he quit, still in his prime, there was no screaming by the fans for his return. From what all of my customers in that area told me, it was a SHOCKING and disgraceful "Good Riddance" attitude by the fans. Portis has true potential for greatness. I hope the fans here will not turn their back on HIM.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]Offiss - don't take it personally.

Actually, I have not seen Portis compared to Sanders - least of all on a pregame show!! I was simply comparing their STYLE (I repeated it several times hoping you would notice that). And it was based solely on my almost 60 years of watching and analyzing - not something I HEARD. Sayers also had a very similar style. There have been very few runners that had that "style" of running. It is beautiful to watch. It is a combination of great moves, general elusiveness, great vision, speed, and a huge amount of desire. I see all of that in Portis. I would have LOVED to see Barry Sanders behind Denver's line. I would have HATED to see him behind this year's Redskin line. Don't even try to compare Detroit's weak line with this line that is totally inept at run blocking. If Barry Sanders were running around behind OUR line like he did so often in Detroit. There would be no linemen running around finding guys to block. They would be watching.

And as great as Barry Sanders was, don't forget that when he quit, still in his prime, there was no screaming by the fans for his return. From what all of my customers in that area told me, it was a SHOCKING and disgraceful "Good Riddance" attitude by the fans. Portis has true potential for greatness. I hope the fans here will not turn their back on HIM.



[/QUOTE][QUOTE]As far as Portis breaking tackles, you could not be more wrong. HIS method of "breaking" tackles is exactly like Barry Sanders. He "breaks" them by avoiding them with jukes and spin moves. [/QUOTE]

Rest assured HG I don't take this personel, I hope you are not as well, I believe in your assesment of similar running styles, you used the word EXACTLY! Which is just plain wrong, where do you see Portis stop and start like Sander's? Where does he break any tackles, of any kind, any way? His running style is most comparible to Eric Dickerson, only he's a minuture version, if you wasnt a guy similar, and close to his size, you can go with Dorsett, [but they are different body types] but if Portis was 6'3" he would be a dead ringer for Dickerson, as for a comparison for Sander's, as far as style, I think Quintin Griffen is more Sander's like than Portis.

[QUOTE]And as great as Barry Sanders was, don't forget that when he quit, still in his prime, there was no screaming by the fans for his return. From what all of my customers in that area told me, it was a SHOCKING and disgraceful "Good Riddance" attitude by the fans. Portis has true potential for greatness. I hope the fans here will not turn their back on HIM.[/QUOTE]


I hope you don't think Denver is throwing a parade for Portis when he eventually go's back there to play?

[QUOTE=offiss]Rest assured HG I don't take this personel, I hope you are not as well, I believe in your assesment of similar running styles, you used the word EXACTLY! Which is just plain wrong, where do you see Portis stop and start like Sander's? Where does he break any tackles, of any kind, any way? His running style is most comparible to Eric Dickerson, only he's a minuture version, if you wasnt a guy similar, and close to his size, you can go with Dorsett, [but they are different body types] but if Portis was 6'3" he would be a dead ringer for Dickerson, as for a comparison for Sander's, as far as style, I think Quintin Griffen is more Sander's like than Portis.




I hope you don't think Denver is throwing a parade for Portis when he eventually go's back there to play?[/QUOTE]

I think I repeatedly used "similar" in comparing their style. The only time I said "exactly" was when I was describing his method of breaking tackles - and I stand by that. Neither used power to break tackles, they both used elusiveness, period. (and that was the simple point that got this started, BTW).

As far as the FANS in Denver go, I read the Denver Post sports section every day for a couple weeks after the trade. Most of what I read was that there was outrage being expressed by many fans, and a number of the players. He was a popular guy there. And there has been more of the same sentiment there over the last couple weeks. It remains to be seen if Droughns will do as well against other defenses as he did yesterday. If not, you will hear a lot more from up on the big hill about Portis being traded. He was much appreciated there. Personally, I feel Shanahan set himself up for a lot of criticism when he traded Portis immediately after his OL genius, Alex Gibbs, leaves town. If the line can not deliver as in the past, it will "look" like he is at fault for getting rid of Portis.

If that happens, yes, I ABSOLUTELY think there would be a parade for Portis' return. But that ain't gonna happen...

P.S. You complain about Portis compared to Sanders and you compare Griffin????? LOL - He has ALREADY lost his job. He can't hold Portis' jock strap.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]I think I repeatedly used "similar" in comparing their style. The only time I said "exactly" was when I was describing his method of breaking tackles - and I stand by that. Neither used power to break tackles, they both used elusiveness, period. (and that was the simple point that got this started, BTW).

As far as the FANS in Denver go, I read the Denver Post sports section every day for a couple weeks after the trade. Most of what I read was that there was outrage being expressed by many fans, and a number of the players. He was a popular guy there. And there has been more of the same sentiment there over the last couple weeks. It remains to be seen if Droughns will do as well against other defenses as he did yesterday. If not, you will hear a lot more from up on the big hill about Portis being traded. He was much appreciated there. Personally, I feel Shanahan set himself up for a lot of criticism when he traded Portis immediately after his OL genius, Alex Gibbs, leaves town. If the line can not deliver as in the past, it will "look" like he is at fault for getting rid of Portis.

If that happens, yes, I ABSOLUTELY think there would be a parade for Portis' return. But that ain't gonna happen...

P.S. You complain about Portis compared to Sanders and you compare Griffin????? LOL - He has ALREADY lost his job. He can't hold Portis' jock strap.[/QUOTE]

Don't know where your going with that, your whole stance on the subject was similar running styles, not production, Griffen look's more like sander's in his running style than Portis, as far as being able to stop and go, you need not tell me he's no sander's, he's not even a Portis, and that's the point, comparing Portis, to Sander's, in any way, is just ridiculous, you may want to watch some film of both very close, you will see nothing out of Portis that will resemble Sander's, the fact is, you will find nothing that resembles Sander's period, in the history of the NFL, he was that unique.