DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

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[URL="http://dcprosportsreport.com/2009/10/smoke-signals-zorn-is-a-dead-man-walking.html"][B]http://dcprosportsreport.com/2009/10/smoke-signals-zorn-is-a-dead-man-walking.html[/B][/URL] -[SIZE=2][URL="http://dcprosportsreport.com/2009/10/smoke-signals-zorn-is-a-dead-man-walking.html"]Smoke Signals: Zorn is a Dead Man Walking[/URL][/SIZE]

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[URL="http://dcprosportsreport.com/2009/10/does-sherman-lewis-hiring-signal-zorns-ouster-signal-holmgren-in-dc.html"][B]http://dcprosportsreport.com/2009/10/does-sherman-lewis-hiring-signal-zorns-ouster-signal-holmgren-in-dc.html[/B][/URL] - [B][URL="http://dcprosportsreport.com/2009/10/does-sherman-lewis-hiring-signal-zorns-ouster-signal-holmgren-in-dc.html"][SIZE=2]Does Sherman Lewis hiring signal Zorn's ouster? Signal Holmgren in DC?[/SIZE][/URL][/B]

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

Ehhhh, more of the same. Id much rather have Shanahan or Cowher. I found ths Steinberg blog entry way more interesting:

[quote][B]Campbell Was Playing For Zorn's Future?[/B]

"I came in at halftime and took a deep breath....I said the second half, I said our season's depending on what I do in this half. I said Coach Zorn's future's probably depending on what I do in this second half. My fate, you know, [is depending on] what happens in the second half. I was like, 'Everyone's watching. They want to see how are you gonna fight, how are you gonna bounce back, are you gonna be a guy that runs away, are you gonna be a guy that sticks in there and fights.' Because the best have thrown picks like this before in games, and they bounced back."

[/quote]

I guess Campbell's 2nd half play wasn't enough.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Holmgren to DC?, 30 Power Polls
 

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re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

Mike & Mike had Holmgren on Monday mornings show and Holmgren mentioned he was enjoying his year off, but was eager to comeback next year. He said whoever is willing to give him a chance.

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;603921]Mike & Mike had Holmgren on Monday mornings show and Holmgren mentioned he was enjoying his year off, but was eager to comeback next year. He said whoever is willing to give him a chance.[/quote]

A lot of it may depend on salary pay and control. I really can not picture Holmgren coming to DC with the current front office structure. If he does, he is stupid.

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;603922]A lot of it may depend on salary pay and control. I really can not picture Holmgren coming to DC with the current front office structure. If he does, he is stupid.[/quote]

If he did come, maybe he would as a GM like Parcells? Or a GM/Coach tutor to Zorn?

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

I dont think we, as fans, will be satisfied with ANY coach that comes under the current front office structure. To be honest, Gruden is the only "big name" coach I can even think of coming here under the certain structure, and he is, by far, my least favorite of all the names getting tossed around.

Personally, I wont be happy unless we land a GM who has total control and wont listen to snyder AND a proven head coach. I'll list the "realistic" combinations of guys i'd want in descending order. And by realistic, i mean given what could happen if Snyder decides to completely step out of the picture and turn this thing over. If he doesn't, then no combination of GMs and coachs will either a) want to come here, or b) be successful.

GM / HC
1. Parcells / Cowher
2. Shottenheimer / Cowher
3. Parcells / Shanahan
4. Holmgren / Shanahan
5. Holmgren / Gruden
6. Cerrato / Shanahan
7. Cerrato / Holmgren

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

Holmgren seems to really miss coaching and has apparently indicated that while he'd like control of the personnel he's not so tied to the idea of being GM and head coach (if anything I'd rather he be GM and bring in a young guy to be head coach).

I really don't want Shanahan as a GM. I'd rather he be head coach and let Vinny stay where he is (or bump up Mo Brown)

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

I don't even see Chucky coming here under the current FO setup. I think he would push to bring Bruce Allen as GM.

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

FYI from today's ESPN Chat with Mort:
[quote=Mort's chat]
Follow up to Zorn/Redskins - if Snyder hires one of the big names you mentioned (Holmgren, Shanahan, Cowher, Gruden), do you think he'll give up organizational control and cut ties with Cerrato? I can't see Bill Cowher listening to Vinny, for example.
Chris Mortensen
(12:06 PM)

If that happens, Cerrato would be more than willing to yield. He's done that before, with Joe Gibbs. Vinny is a team player.[/quote]
I think Snyder is more willing to make changes to appease a potential HOF coach (Shanny, Holmgren, Cowher) than he would for Gruden or a lesser name HC.

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=Mattyk72;603945]I don't even see Chucky coming here under the current FO setup. I think he would push to bring Bruce Allen as GM.[/quote]

Allen is scheduled to be on Sirius NFL Radio this afternoon around 5 and they said they were going to ask him (among other things) about the 'offensive consultant' in DC and his opinion of it. It should be interesting to hear how he handles it. If I listen, I'll post a recap.

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=Paintrain;603952]FYI from today's ESPN Chat with Mort:

I think Snyder is more willing to make changes to appease a potential HOF coach (Shanny, Holmgren, Cowher) than he would for Gruden or a lesser name HC.[/quote]

Mort makes a good point, I don't think Vinny is the problem either. It's up to Danny, he's the one that would have to be able to play nice in the sandbox.

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=Mattyk72;603955]Mort makes a good point, I don't think Vinny is the problem either. It's up to [B]Danny[/B], he's the one that would have to be able to play nice in the sandbox.[/quote]And he owns the sandbox :)

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=mattyk72;603955]mort makes a good point, i don't think vinny is the problem either. It's up to danny, he's the one that would have to be able to play nice in the sandbox.[/quote]

uh-ho

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;603924]If he did come, maybe he would as a GM like Parcells? Or a GM/Coach tutor to Zorn?[/quote]

If Sherm Lewis improves this offense through his "consultations" why wouldn't we promote him to head coach and demote Zorn so he can focus on Campbell (if he is still here -- honestly I would let Collins go and keep JC as a back up *Note -- Uncapped season). Before we say age. He is 67 and Holmgren is 61. Not that much of a difference. He learned from Bill Walsh. So honestly he would have just as much or more knowledge than Holmgren. I wouldn't mind seeing Holmgren as GM and Sherm as Coach or vice versa. Zorn will have to get in where he fits in or bye bye!! Seems like Sherm has a great relationship with Blache....

Only time will tell...

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;603922]A lot of it may depend on salary pay and control. I really can not picture Holmgren coming to DC with the current front office structure. If he does, he is stupid.[/quote]

~~~~~
I would agree. I do not see someone such as Holmgren dealing with the likes of Cerrato and the way things are currently structured. I am not sure if Snyder would be willing to come off of it either. I know he likes big names but he also likes his ego even more so.

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

Cowher is a long shot. I think he would prefer to go to Carolina should the job become available.

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=TheSmurfs22;604087]~~~~~
I would agree. I do not see someone such as Holmgren dealing with the likes of Cerrato and the way things are currently structured. I am not sure if Snyder would be willing to come off of it either. I know he likes big names but he also likes his ego even more so.[/quote]

Thus Sherm might be the perfect guy... See previous post.

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;603934]I dont think we, as fans, will be satisfied with ANY coach that comes under the current front office structure. To be honest, Gruden is the only "big name" coach I can even think of coming here under the certain structure, and he is, by far, my least favorite of all the names getting tossed around.

Personally, I wont be happy unless we land a GM who has total control and wont listen to snyder AND a proven head coach. I'll list the "realistic" combinations of guys i'd want in descending order. And by realistic, i mean given what could happen if Snyder decides to completely step out of the picture and turn this thing over. If he doesn't, then no combination of GMs and coachs will either a) want to come here, or b) be successful.

GM / HC
1. Parcells / Cowher
2. Shottenheimer / Cowher
3. Parcells / Shanahan
4. Holmgren / Shanahan
5. Holmgren / Gruden
6. Cerrato / Shanahan
7. Cerrato / Holmgren[/quote]

I really don't see Parcells coming here.

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;603934]I dont think we, as fans, will be satisfied with ANY coach that comes under the current front office structure. To be honest, Gruden is the only "big name" coach I can even think of coming here under the certain structure, and he is, by far, my least favorite of all the names getting tossed around.

Personally, I wont be happy unless we land a GM who has total control and wont listen to snyder AND a proven head coach. I'll list the "realistic" combinations of guys i'd want in descending order. And by realistic, i mean given what could happen if Snyder decides to completely step out of the picture and turn this thing over. If he doesn't, then no combination of GMs and coachs will either a) want to come here, or b) be successful.

GM / HC
1. Parcells / Cowher
2. Shottenheimer / Cowher
3. Parcells / Shanahan
4. Holmgren / Shanahan
5. Holmgren / Gruden
6. Cerrato / Shanahan
7. Cerrato / Holmgren[/quote]

Bottom line is that if the Skins really want to turn things around, they need a new coach, new GM and a new QB. Barring a miracle, there will at least be a new coach and QB. Hopefully, they come to their senses and bundle in a real GM.

re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;604085]If Sherm Lewis improves this offense through his "consultations" why wouldn't we promote him to head coach and demote Zorn so he can focus on Campbell (if he is still here -- honestly I would let Collins go and keep JC as a back up *Note -- Uncapped season). Before we say age. He is 67 and Holmgren is 61. Not that much of a difference. He learned from Bill Walsh. So honestly he would have just as much or more knowledge than Holmgren. I wouldn't mind seeing Holmgren as GM and Sherm as Coach or vice versa. Zorn will have to get in where he fits in or bye bye!! Seems like Sherm has a great relationship with Blache....

Only time will tell...[/quote]


promote sherman to head coach?
has the same as.. or MORE knowledge than Holmgren??

let collins go (un-capped year) and keep JC as a back - up??


nahhh man, i can't disagree more with those statements.

holmgren has uber-experience....
Holmgren 10+> Sherman at [b]HEAD COACH[/b] for us.

maybe [b]OC[/b] ... but not [b]HC[/b]...

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

and again, the reality is, I just don't think it matters who the hell the head coach is, with the same front office format. We have had Gibbs here. We have had Spurrier. Zorn. Turner. It really doesn't matter. The organization is more dysfunctional than the coaching. That is the brutal reality. This franchise has not been a winner under Snyder in ten years, despite different coaches, different offenses, and it won't be until their is a professional approach to building a franchise.

One of Snyder's BIGGEST problems is patience. He thinks there is a quick fix to everything and wants the quick fix. Well, sometimes, things are so messed up, there is no quick fix. Until he learns that, expect more of the same.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;603934]I dont think we, as fans, will be satisfied with ANY coach that comes under the current front office structure. To be honest, Gruden is the only "big name" coach I can even think of coming here under the certain structure, and he is, by far, my least favorite of all the names getting tossed around.

Personally, I wont be happy unless we land a GM who has total control and wont listen to snyder AND a proven head coach. I'll list the "realistic" combinations of guys i'd want in descending order. And by realistic, i mean given what could happen if Snyder decides to completely step out of the picture and turn this thing over. If he doesn't, then no combination of GMs and coachs will either a) want to come here, or b) be successful.

GM / HC
1. Parcells / Cowher
2. Shottenheimer / Cowher
3. Parcells / Shanahan
4. Holmgren / Shanahan
5. Holmgren / Gruden
6. Cerrato / Shanahan
7. Cerrato / Holmgren[/quote]

Mine:
1) Schottenheimer/Brian Schottenheimer
2) Schottenheimer/Cowher
3) ?/Shanahan
4)Holmgren/?

I just like M.Schottenheimer's scouting and won't take any crap attitude, and Brian Schottenheimer appears to know what he's doing since he's turned the Jets around in yards and scoring. Cowher has worked with Schottenheimer before and think they might be able to put something good together. I know Shanahan was a decent coach but I wonder how much of it was he had great Asst. Coach's helping him. Could he bring those people to DC? Holmgren.....I just don't get a warm fuzzy feeling. Although he took Seatle to the play offs he struggled his last few yrs. What that reason is I'm not sure but it worries me that our problems we have now with some of the primadana attitudes might carry over with him somehow associated with the team. I guess if he was brought in as GM he would not have as much hands on which I guess could be ok. So who would be his HC? Cowher? I don't think they run come from the same tree and could they get along? Maybe Holmgren/Gruden. Atleast they would understand each other and know what talent is needed to run their Scheme.

^Sorry I was thinking out loud. :)

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=Beemnseven;604097]I really don't see Parcells coming here.[/quote]

I don't either. I would presume he's happy in Miami, but "if" he did decide to come back to the NFC East I truly wonder how he would get a long with Snyder?

I hope,,,I truly hope that "if" DS is leaning toward firing Zorn when ever that time is..."if" it happens, I hope DS takes a look at himself also and makes some drastic changes across the board.

1) Go into rebuild mode, maybe not cap next yr so get rid of the overhead.
2) Hire a football GM/and a proven HC.
3) Completely step back, write the checks, and enjoy the game on Sun in his press box with friends....maybe he'll see a SB.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;604085]If Sherm Lewis improves this offense through his "consultations" why wouldn't we promote him to head coach and demote Zorn so he can focus on Campbell (if he is still here -- honestly I would let Collins go and keep JC as a back up *Note -- Uncapped season). Before we say age. He is 67 and Holmgren is 61. Not that much of a difference. He learned from Bill Walsh. So honestly he would have just as much or more knowledge than Holmgren. I wouldn't mind seeing Holmgren as GM and Sherm as Coach or vice versa. Zorn will have to get in where he fits in or bye bye!! Seems like Sherm has a great relationship with Blache....

Only time will tell...[/quote]

You bring up an interesting point... I dont think anyone, Snyder included, thinks Zorn as a QB Coach or even offensive coordinator (who didnt call plays and merely helped devise gameplans) would be a problem. Do you think Zorn would accept an in-season demotion to QB coach, while Blache took over as HC? I certainly think this team is better with Zorn (in some capacity) than it is without him.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=Beemnseven;604097]I really don't see Parcells coming here.[/quote]

Its the NFC-East. If Parcells decides he wants to leave Miami, I can't see a better situation for him to come in and repair. It would certainly be great for his legacy.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=SBXVII;604274]Mine:
1) Schottenheimer/Brian Schottenheimer
2) Schottenheimer/Cowher
3) ?/Shanahan
4)Holmgren/?

I just like M.Schottenheimer's scouting and won't take any crap attitude, and Brian Schottenheimer appears to know what he's doing since he's turned the Jets around in yards and scoring. Cowher has worked with Schottenheimer before and think they might be able to put something good together. I know Shanahan was a decent coach but I wonder how much of it was he had great Asst. Coach's helping him. Could he bring those people to DC? Holmgren.....I just don't get a warm fuzzy feeling. Although he took Seatle to the play offs he struggled his last few yrs. What that reason is I'm not sure but it worries me that our problems we have now with some of the primadana attitudes might carry over with him somehow associated with the team. I guess if he was brought in as GM he would not have as much hands on which I guess could be ok. So who would be his HC? Cowher? I don't think they run come from the same tree and could they get along? Maybe Holmgren/Gruden. Atleast they would understand each other and know what talent is needed to run their Scheme.

^Sorry I was thinking out loud. :)[/quote]

I like Shottenheimer alot as well. Honestly, the best chance of success this organization ever had before was when Shottenheimer was in charge. I honestly think this organization is coming to a cross-roads. The economy is bad, so that, coupled the skins suing their fans over tickets and a decade of disfunction may actually motivate fans to get snyder where it hurts - his wallet. If i'm not mistaken, we had close to a record-low attendance at last Sundays game. Snyder seems oblivous to the fact that the way he's been running things is the root of the franchises problem. I really get the feeling that his eyes are about to be opened.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

what is all of this "demotion" talk? Is there one example of a head coach getting demoted and sticking with the same team in the NFL? Honestly? That will not happen.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;604285]what is all of this "demotion" talk? Is there one example of a head coach getting demoted and sticking with the same team in the NFL? Honestly? That will not happen.[/quote]

I agree i've never heard of it before, but its not like anyone else out there would want Zorn as a HC or OC. It may be his only option.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=SBXVII;604278]I don't either. I would presume he's happy in Miami, but "if" he did decide to come back to the NFC East I truly wonder how he would get a long with Snyder?

I hope,,,I truly hope that "if" DS is leaning toward firing Zorn when ever that time is..."if" it happens, I hope DS takes a look at himself also and makes some drastic changes across the board.

1) Go into rebuild mode, maybe not cap next yr so get rid of the overhead.
2) Hire a football GM/and a proven HC.
[B]3) Completely step back, write the checks, and enjoy the game on Sun in his press box with friends....maybe he'll see a SB.[/B][/quote]

Exactly -- I'd be cool with it even if he wanted to hang out in the War Room on draft day; just as long as he stays quiet.

Only a 3 or 4 win season will make Lil' Danny see the light for 1. and 2. to happen. If they're able to snag 7, 8, or 9 wins, that would only fool Lil' Danny into thinking that [I]'we're almost there...'[/I] and nothing will ever change around here.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;604280]Its the NFC-East. If Parcells decides he wants to leave Miami, [B]I can't see a better situation for him to come in and repair.[/B] It would certainly be great for his legacy.[/quote]

You don't? Detroit, Oakland after Al Davis keels over, the options for him to repair bad teams are all over the place.

He'd never work for Snyder. And being in the NFC East won't endear him to us.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=Beemnseven;604291]You don't? Detroit, Oakland after [B]Al Davis keels over[/B], the options for him to repair bad teams are all over the place.

He'd never work for Snyder. And being in the NFC East won't endear him to us.[/quote]

I don't think Al Davis dies. I think he stays around till he's about 200 years old just to make Oakland fans miserable. I mean he's already like half way there, right?

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;604295]I don't think Al Davis dies. I think he stays around till he's about 200 years old just to make Oakland fans miserable. I mean he's already like half way there, right?[/quote]

That's only horrible because it's so close to the truth. Al Davis has the brain of a spazzed out lab monkey that's been huffing spray paint cans all day.

Seriously though, I fell out of my chair laughing.

Bravo.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

If, by any chance, the Jaguars relocated to Los Angeles...I could see Parcells there

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=Beemnseven;604291]You don't? Detroit, Oakland after Al Davis keels over, the options for him to repair bad teams are all over the place.

He'd never work for Snyder. And being in the NFC East won't endear him to us.[/quote]

All over the place? You just named two. And last I checked, Al Davis isn't dead and Parcells is pretty old himself. Parcells doesnt have time to wait around if he wants to go to another team. Detroit just got a new GM last year, so they wont be making a change any time soon. Detroit and Oakland will never have the prestige of being in the NFC-East, the place where Parcells spent most of his glory years. If you ask me, the #1 team on Parcells list would be washington, so long as Snyder stayed out of his way and he had total control.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=SmootSmack;604299]If, by any chance, the Jaguars relocated to Los Angeles...I could see Parcells there[/quote]

I could see that as well, same goes most of the other teams that are being considered for SD, although the Jags are - by far - the best project for Parcells.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

I mentioned Parcells in a thread two weeks ago when the gm/new coach threads started. I think you have to consider it a possibility. He will have a lot of demands, but he's in position to negotiate what he wants. Espn was speculating that he was likely to leave Miami after this year.

I can't stand the thought of it, but he's already been in NY & Dallas, clearly there's a mercenary quality to his work.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;604305][B]All over the place? You just named two. And last I checked, Al Davis isn't dead[/B] and Parcells is pretty old himself. Parcells doesnt have time to wait around if he wants to go to another team. Detroit just got a new GM last year, so they wont be making a change any time soon. Detroit and Oakland will never have the prestige of being in the NFC-East, the place where Parcells spent most of his glory years. If you ask me, the #1 team on Parcells list would be washington, so long as Snyder stayed out of his way and he had total control.[/quote]

Yeah, I named two. You want me to go through the entire list of bad teams?

Fine.

St. Louis. Tampa Bay. Carolina. Buffalo. Jacksonville. Cleveland. Cincinnati. Kansas City.

Is that good enough? There are more who are teetering, middle of the pack, and could use a change-up. Dan Snyder is far more valuable to Bill Parcells as someone he can snooker 2nd round picks out of for washed up has-beens anyway. Why work for Snyder when you can use his draft picks to bolster your team?

And I said Al Davis *** [B][I]after[/I][/B] *** he keels over.

Look man, it's not happening. Forget it.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

Zorn=Spurrier. It is clear for all to see that Zorn does not have the respect of his players and vice-versa.

The only way these players will play up to their potential is for this team to have a coach come in with real NFL street cred and past sucess, like that of Cowher, Shanny, Holmgren, etc. And the fact that we are D.C., we will get what we demand, and sometimes not what we need. My bet is that Zorn gets fired at the end of the season and, Snyder will have The Chin sitting next to him at a table filled with microphones soon after.

Re: DC Pro Sports: Smoke Signals, Mike Holmgren to DC?, and more coming
 

I think Zorn=Turner