Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

Brilliant!

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/23/northwest-pilots-argument-miss-runway]Arguing Northwest pilots fly 150 miles past runway | World news | guardian.co.uk[/url]

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

This is why I am scared to fly. Well, that and crashing.

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

So does that mean the passengers earned an additional 300 air mile points.

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

[URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/23/northwest-pilots-argument-miss-runway"]Sleeping Northwest pilots fly 150 miles past runway | World news | guardian.co.uk[/URL]

Fixed.

Haha FD, that one cracked me up.

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

Flying scares me to death. Reading stuff like this only makes it worse.

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

The cruising speed of a 747 is approx 565 MPH. At that speed it only takes 16 min to travel 150 miles. I'm sure that several of us have been distracted for 15-20 min on a regular car ride and missed a turn or an exit. It's not as bad as people are making it out to be.

Edit: This was an Airbus A320, the cruising speed is between 504-540 MPH. This changes the flight time to 17-18 min to travel 150 Miles.

[url=http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=23]Airbus A320 | Airliners.net[/url]

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

[quote=Angry;614506]The cruising speed of a 747 is approx 565 MPH. At that speed it only takes 16 min to travel 150 miles. I'm sure that several of us have been distracted for 15-20 min on a regular car ride and missed a turn or an exit. It's not as bad as people are making it out to be.[/quote]
So its not that bad that two guys with a hundred or more peoples lives in their hands get distracted for 16 minutes?

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

[quote=Angry;614506]The cruising speed of a 747 is approx 565 MPH. At that speed it only takes 16 min to travel 150 miles. I'm sure that several of us have been distracted for 15-20 min on a regular car ride and missed a turn or an exit. It's not as bad as people are making it out to be.[/quote]

Um, they are 7 miles up in the air going nearly 600 mph with hundreds of lives in their hands. Distracted for 15-20 mins isn't a big deal??

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

I'm no pilot, but I'm not sure how you compare missing an exit on a highway with missing a runway

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614513]I'm no pilot, but I'm not sure how you compare missing an exit on a highway with missing a runway[/quote]

Me either, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614513]I'm no pilot, but I'm not sure how you compare missing an exit on a highway with missing a runway[/quote]

They just kept flying. Just like you would keep driving. There is a better form of cruise control up there as well. Thay call it "Auto Pilot".

Eveyone thinks that just because they are flying in a plane that they are paying more attention. The truth is that after you get comfortable doing something, you get complacent. It happens to everyone; no one is immune, especially when you have a job as redundant as flying or driving. I am suprised that this sort of thing does not happen more often. You may disagree with the comparison, but I have seen things like this fist hand.

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

[quote=Angry;614519]They just kept flying. Just like you would keep driving. There is a better form of cruise control up there as well. Thay call it "Auto Pilot".

Eveyone thinks that just because they are flying in a plane that they are paying more attention. The truth is that after you get comfortable doing something, you get complacent. It happens to everyone; no one is immune, especially when you have a job as redundant as flying or driving. I am suprised that this sort of thing does not happen more often. You may disagree with the comparison, but I have seen things like this fist hand.[/quote]

Sorry, it's not the same. Becoming distracted while flying a plane is undoubtedly more dangerous. The comparison may work from a purely functional standpoint but pilots get paid a pretty good amount of money to be doing what they are doing. And for good reason. Their ability to fly that plane, and all the skills required to do so, gives them responsibility for dozens if not hundreds of lives. In the end the potential consequences of the two aren't nearly the same. Just because something like this happens more often than we'd like to know doesn't make it any better. They should be fired and lose their licenses.

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

I don't know... when pilots lose their 'situational awareness' for more than a few minutes, I'm thinking it's a big deal.

When jet fighters are put on notice because ground control loses contact with the plane for an hour... kind of a big deal.

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

[quote=FRPLG;614523]Sorry, it's not the same. Becoming distracted while [B]flying a plane is undoubtedly more dangerous[/B]. The comparison may work from a purely functional standpoint but pilots [B]get paid a pretty good amount of money to be doing what they are doing.[/B] And for good reason. Their ability to fly that plane, and all the skills required to do so, gives them responsibility for dozens if not hundreds of lives. In the end the potential consequences of the two aren't nearly the same. Just because something like this happens more often than we'd like to know doesn't make it any better. They should be fired and lose their licenses.[/quote]

It is not more dangerous, don't you read those statistics where it is safer to fly than drive? I understand that in a car crash you could die, while in a plane crash you probably will die.

No they don't, not for a long time anyway.
[url=http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_an_airline_pilot_earn]WikiAnswers - How much money does an airline pilot earn[/url]

Regardless, you are expecting somebody to be as diligent at doing something their 451st time as they were on ther 1st. It just doesn't work that way. Human nature doesn't work that way. You can preach on and on about money, severity, danger, ect. until you are blue in the face. That does not change the fact that you are human, will get complacent, and eventually will make a mistake.

Now before you guys start wondering what airline I work for...I don't, I am not a pilot. I have ridden in planes and I have walked out of planes. That is not what I am basing my experience on.

My experience has come from being tired, hungy, and traveling in convoys at night across a combat zone. At no other time than this would you expect to be on your toes no matter what. After doing it for you 50th time, in the middle of the desert, while looking through a set of NVG's, wearing the hottest pieces of clothing US Tax dollars can buy, sitting inside of the cockpit of an armored track vehicle, while the engine compartment is letting off some intense heat, you fall asleep while driving. minutes later you wake up startled, wondering how in the hell you managed to drive as long as you did without getting into an accident. Sadly, this happens more than once, on more than one night, and to more than one driver.

If we can get complacent in a combat zone, what makes you think that it can't or shouldn't happen on a plane?

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

Apparently they were traveling from San Diego to Minneapolis. 1527 miles. Missed it by 150 miles. So, for about 90% of the time they were....Good! 90% is an "A" on a straight scale. NOT TO SHABBY, right?
Maybe the pilots will want to us this same, sound reasoning in the de-brief with the NTSB?

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

For what it's worth, when my Dad, a pilot, retired from the Air Force, he apparently had opportunities to fly for a number of airlines. Many, many years later I asked him why he didn't do this. His response was, essentially, "because I didn't want to be an glorified bus driver, I'd be bored to tears" and that was with the technology they had in the 70's.

I'm inclined to go with Angry on this one. While distracted, I imagine that, if a problem with the actual flight of the plane occurred, they probably would have become "undistracted" quickly enough. I don't mean "oh god the engines are out" but more of "hey, did the engine just sound funny? we better check it out" .

I have worked with dangerous machines many times in my life. After pushing the 50th peice of wood through a saw that will take your hand off in a second, you may begin to drift but you still be aware of the danger at some level and be ready to take appropriate action.

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

If the plane didn't crash it's all good. Everyone on-board deserves a free glorified-bus ticket though.

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

They ARE glorified bus drivers. PLEASE...no sleeping on the job

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614513]I'm no pilot, but I'm not sure how you compare missing an exit on a highway with missing a runway[/quote]
Well at first I was going to say they probably have a GPS system in the plane but after a quick search I'm not so sure.

[url=http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/airgps.htm]Airlines which APPROVE/DISPROVE GPS use in Flight[/url]

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

[quote=Angry;614534]It is not more dangerous, don't you read those statistics where it is safer to fly than drive? I understand that in a car crash you could die, while in a plane crash you probably will die.
[/quote]
Perhaps I should have said that the consequences are greater. The difference is that not paying attention and missing an exit causes no one harm. This type of inattention arguably is harmless in general. Losing track of what you are doing while flying an airplane, while similar in type and consequence in this case, is simply a much worse indicator for the abilities of the pilot. When flying a plane with hundreds of people on board if you can't pay attention enough to know when to land the plane then I am pretty damned worried about you being a pilot. That's a rather large thing to miss. We're not talking about taxiing to the wrong gate here. They forgot to land the plane.
[quote]
No they don't, not for a long time anyway.
[url=http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_an_airline_pilot_earn]WikiAnswers - How much money does an airline pilot earn[/url]
[/quote]
That's not peanuts.
[quote]
Regardless, you are expecting somebody to be as diligent at doing something their 451st time as they were on ther 1st. It just doesn't work that way. Human nature doesn't work that way. You can preach on and on about money, severity, danger, ect. until you are blue in the face. That does not change the fact that you are human, will get complacent, and eventually will make a mistake.
[/quote]

Look I buy your rationale about human nature. But in this type of case it doesn't apply. If it did we'd hear about this happening more often. I haven't heard of it before. That leads me to believe that most pilots don't EVER have a problem remembering to land the plane at the appropriate time.

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

Fair enough.

I would venture to say, though I do not know for sure, that instances like this probably do happen more often than we hear about (for shorter distances). Its possible that the only reason that we had heard about this one was due to the distance that they flew off course.

Did you read the entire link on pilot salaries? If were a pilot right now at my age and experience in my current field I would only be making about 1/3 of what I make right now. I wouldn't be able to catch up to a competative salary until my 40's or 50's. In your defense though you are right, most major Airline pilots are the more experienced guys. I wonder how much of a cut the pilots are having to take due to the poor industry right now though.

Re: Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
 

This isn't a big deal, I'm pretty sure every weather related delay isn't weather related. Shit happens.

Pilots use to make 200K+ back in the day (before 1999) but then industry got saturate with too many pilots, and then the recession and 911 happened. Pilot salaries haven't recovered since.