Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/11/02/holmgren-redskins-treatment-of-zorn-was-wrong/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Holmgren: Redskins’ treatment of Zorn was wrong «[/url]

Well he will mostly likely not be coach or GM now!!!

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

What else is new?

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

But then again Marty said he'd never work for Snyder

Still, like I mentioned in another thread (smart idea to start a new thread on this by the way), it just seems unlikely because I think it'd be too big a change for Holmgren to go from Paul Allen to Dan Snyder.

I also have a feeling that Holmgren could end up as the new President in Cleveland. Total gut feeling, based on nothing

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

He's speaking the truth. Still can't rule him out just based on these comments though.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;619631][URL="http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/11/02/holmgren-redskins-treatment-of-zorn-was-wrong/"]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Holmgren: Redskins’ treatment of Zorn was wrong «[/URL]

Well he will mostly likely not be coach or GM now!!![/quote]
This could be his way of turning down the offer before it was even extended. I always wondered if he'd take the job after we canned Zorn.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=tryfuhl;619643]This could be his way of turning down the offer before it was even extended. I always wondered if he'd take the job after we canned Zorn.[/quote]

Or his way of making a statement publicly rather than telling DS personally during an interview. That way, if he is interviewed, he can say, 'you already know how I feel about the way Jim was treated...'

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

I never felt he was much of a fit for the Redskins anyways. The sense I always got from him was that he wanted to be THE guy/face of an organization and Snyder won't let that happen. I'm still expecting a Shanahan or Gruden/Allen move in early January.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

I actually think that Holmgren's comments shouldn't be construed to be any indication of his willingness to come to Washington.

The fact is that the opinion that Zorn was mistreated in having his play calling duties removed is somewhat universal. Given this, and the fact that Holmgren worked with Zorn in Seattle, a failure by Holmgren to say anything negative about it when asked might make him look like he's pandering to the Washington front office in the hope of keeping himself in the successor discussion, even if he actually believes that it was the right move. His comments were basic--that Zorn didn't deserve the treatment. That's nothing that can't be smoothed over in a contract discussion. As has been pointed out, Marty's comments were more pointed before he accepted the job.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

Certainly does not come as surprise from someone who had Zorn in his employ for so long. If that's his feeling, it's difficult to argue with him.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=BringBackJoeT;619655]I actually think that Holmgren's comments shouldn't be construed to be any indication of his willingness to come to Washington.

The fact is that the opinion that Zorn was mistreated in having his play calling duties removed is somewhat universal. Given this, and the fact that Holmgren worked with Zorn in Seattle, a failure by Holmgren to say anything negative about it when asked might make him look like he's pandering to the Washington front office in the hope of keeping himself in the successor discussion, even if he actually believes that it was the right move. His comments were basic--that Zorn didn't deserve the treatment. That's nothing that can't be smoothed over in a contract discussion. As has been pointed out, Marty's comments were more pointed before he accepted the job.[/quote]

Agreed. At the end of the day the NFL is a business and these guys are professionals. I wouldn't read too much into any comments flying around between now and the end of the season.

Maybe Holmgren is, indeed, interested in the job but he's sort of drawing a line in the sand. Truth be told, that's the kind of guy Snyder needs around here. I'm not endorsing Holmgren, per se. I'm just saying.

The good thing about all of this is that is out in the open now. Everything. Our lack of depth, the lack of quality starters at certain positions, the coaching and bad management. Dan Snyder needs to change the way he's been doing business. He knows it, the fans knows, the entire NFL knows it. No one really cares about Zorn anymore. Isn't that odd? In a weird kinda of way, Jim Zorn's not on the hot seat anymore.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=12thMan;619662]Agreed. At the end of the day the NFL is a business and these guys are professionals. I wouldn't read too much into any comments flying around between now and the end of the season.

Maybe Holmgren is, indeed, interested in the job but he's sort of drawing a line in the sand. Truth be told, that's the kind of guy Snyder needs around here. I'm not endorsing Holmgren, per se. I'm just saying.

[B]The good thing about all of this is that is out in the open now. Everything. Our lack of depth, the lack of quality starters at certain positions, the coaching and bad management. Dan Snyder needs to change the way he's been doing business. He knows it, the fans knows, the entire NFL knows it. No one really cares about Zorn anymore. Isn't that odd? In a weird kinda of way, Jim Zorn's not on the hot seat anymore[/B].[/quote]So true. Being a half glass full kind of guy, I'm happy to accept a 3 win season if it means that Snyder FINALLY recognizes his role in this embarrassment, and then brings in real football people to fix his mess. Most importantly, he must learn to stay the hell out of the way, because his handling of Zorn has killed what little credibility that we might have had with top coaching candidates.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

personally, I didn't want Holmgren here anyway. He has just appeared to be somewhat lacks the last few years. The day of the laid back coach in Washington needs to end. We need a firm hand to steady this ship. I wouldlean toward a defensive minded coach who brings in a stellar OC to focus solely on the O. Or I'll take Shanahan or Gruden and give Jerry gray the DC job.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

People it doesnt matter who coaches here. Dan Snyder and Vinny are the Problems! Not Dan so much, but still nobody is going to make a difference if things keep going the way they are.

I wanted Jon Gruden as coach but that's not going to happen. But I agree with Mike Holmgren. They've abused Jim Zorn.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;619668]People it doesnt matter who coaches here. Dan Snyder and Vinny are the Problems! Not Dan so much, but still nobody is going to make a difference if things keep going the way they are.

I wanted Jon Gruden as coach but that's not going to happen. But I agree with Mike Holmgren. They've abused Jim Zorn.[/quote]

I think everyone here acknowledges that Dan Snyder needs to change the way he does business. And let me tell you, Zorn 'aint exactly crying as he'll be getting all of his contract. I could take a little of abuse for five mil!

As far as coaches go, I'm so much caught up on [I]who[/I] he brings here as much as [I]how[/I] he's brought here.

The choice has to be made in concert with the GM, if not by the GM himself. Everything needs to be snyched properly this time. That's what I'm looking for. I could care less about the name of the person. Let's face it, Snyder has a lot of money and there are few unemployed and employed coaches that will be available when the time comes.

I think the PR part of this will be extremely important too. The perception has to be created from jump street that Dan Snyder has learned his lesson and is handing the operation over to bonafide football men.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

This doesnt mean a thing. My understanding is that the decision to take Zorn's playcalling duties away was Cerrato's and Cerrato's alone. If Cerrato's gone, all bets are off.

Personally, I see the "Big 4" coaching in the following teams next year:

Cowher/Carolina - No brainer.

Gruden/Dallas - Jerry would probably rather have Shanahan, but I don't see him giving Shanahan the kind of control he'd probably want. If nothing else, I don't think Shanahan would want Jones being Owner/GM. He'd either want full control himself or the authority to bring in his own personnel guy. Gruden couldn't care less, so I think he gets the job.

Shanahan/Washington - I think Snyder fires Cerrato and either gives Shanahan total control or allows him to bring in his own personnel guy to be GM.

Holmgren/??? - In my mind, he's the least attractive of all the guys out there for a coaching position, and I don't think he takes a head coaching job anywhere next year if its not "high profile." Dallas and Washtingon are the only "high profile" jobs I see opening up next year. Cleavland, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, and Oakland simply arent attractive enough. In the end, I think he'll consider taking GM potiions in one of those citie, or perhaps even in washington. Now, if Philly collapses as the year goes on, its possible Reid gets fired and Holmgren would be the perfect fit there, but I don't see that coming. The real wild card here is San Francisco. I dont think the job becomes available, but if it does, Thats where i think he'll end up. at the end of the day, none of that is realy likely, so I think he either stays retired or returns to Seattle and takes a GM role there until an attractive HC position opens up somewhere else.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=SmootSmack;619640][B]But then again Marty said he'd never work for Snyder[/B]

Still, like I mentioned in another thread (smart idea to start a new thread on this by the way), it just seems unlikely because I think it'd be too big a change for Holmgren to go from Paul Allen to Dan Snyder.

I also have a feeling that Holmgren could end up as the new President in Cleveland. Total gut feeling, based on nothing[/quote]

Before or after?

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;619686]Before or after?[/quote]


That was a "before" comment.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

Let the new GM worry about it!

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=Hog1;619700]Let the new GM worry about it![/quote]

You mean the new Executive President of Football Operations. And no I didn't forget the Vice part.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=SmootSmack;619640]But then again Marty said he'd never work for Snyder

Still, like I mentioned in another thread (smart idea to start a new thread on this by the way), it just seems unlikely because I think it'd be too big a change for Holmgren to go from Paul Allen to Dan Snyder.

I also have a feeling that Holmgren could end up as the new President in Cleveland. Total gut feeling, based on nothing[/quote]

Did anyone think that this would happen? How would it look if he were to come in and take one of his former assistant's job? He would look like a total jerk for doing that. It would then limit the talent pool who would actually want to coach here.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;619631][URL="http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/11/02/holmgren-redskins-treatment-of-zorn-was-wrong/"]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Holmgren: Redskins’ treatment of Zorn was wrong «[/URL]

Well he will mostly likely not be coach or GM now!!![/quote]

GOOD!! He's Old and washed up anyways.. We need Gruden or Shanahan to come in as a HC..

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=Mattyk72;619641]He's speaking the truth. Still can't rule him out just based on these comments though.[/quote]

Short of part ownership in the team he is completely out.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

Snyder pisses his option at an experienced, winning coach by stepping on his "Swinging Richard" once again. Maybe we can get Tom Cable.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

Holmgren sticking up for one of his guys. Glad he said something. Maybe we should hire a player personel consultant while we're at it. lol.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

With all due respect...Fuck Mike Holmgren. His boy was garbage as a play caller. He's is still the HEAD FREAKING COACH ! I mean seriously. What the fuck does Tom Coughlin do ? Manage the game. Tell his nice friend to learn how to do that while he is still here.

HAIL DANNY !

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

If he was considering the job, why open his mouth? No need to hedge his bets with regards to Zorn by not being overly harsh in his criticism of Snyder's actions or to act like he didn't like what happened to Zorn. I mean what was the point? It was a rather lame way of voicing displeasure at the rough treatment of a colleague. If he didn't want to offend Snyder he should have just shut up. Hedging your bets is rather lame. I guess it doesn't matter. I don't want Holmgren in here anyway. The WCO sucks monkey balls.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

Snyder can always say that taking the play-calling duties away from Zorn was solely Cerrato's doing.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

Well you can scratch Holmgren off the list of possible Head Coaches, so enjoy Shanahan, Gruden, or an Unknown

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

Of course the treatment was a disgrace. Look who is running the team, 2 no class people...any coach who wants to come here obviously wants his reputation destroyed and just want to get paid. Until Vinny is gone and Snyder takes himself out of making football decisions it doesnt matter who is here, we will fail. Its like our quarterback situation, no matter who comes here they will suck until we get the Oline fixed. This team is competes with the Raiders and Browns as poorest run team period

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

On to the contrarian argument. One could argue that Snyder will see Holmgren's outspoken comments as a challenge and make him even more likely to go after Holmgren. I think, as with Marty, DS will try to bring someone in that the media respects. Will it last, that is the question.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[B]Zorn is making how many millions?[/B] Don't feel sorry for him. He should just quit to keep his integrity, his greed is being exposed to all and he will go down in humiliation history. Hard choice. He failed here. I don't blame Danny boy, what a waste of money. Zorn should fall on his sword. We regressed. Shouldn't be on Danny boy should be on Zorn, since he has soooooo much integrity. [B]Go away already. [/B]Sitting on the sideline grimacing at the mess he created. If I was Dan Snyder I would come down from the booth and foot him in his behind on national TV. Put a skirt on Zorn already Vinny (hahahahah). He just sticking around for the millions, so treat him anyway you choose. He played Danny boy for a sucker. He knew he wasn't qualified. He thought I am Zorn the "genius" I can do anything. You don't play with people's money, or their Redskins. Million dollar contracts have made liars out of the best of men. Zorn gets no sympathy from me. Con man Zorn.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;619836][B]Zorn is making how many millions?[/B] Don't feel sorry for him. He should just quit to keep his integrity, his greed is being exposed to all and he will go down in humiliation history. Hard choice. He failed here. I don't blame Danny boy, what a waste of money. Zorn should fall on his sword. We regressed. Shouldn't be on Danny boy should be on Zorn, since he has soooooo much integrity. [B]Go away already. [/B]Sitting on the sideline grimacing at the mess he created. If I was Dan Snyder I would come down from the booth and foot him in his behind on national TV. Put a skirt on Zorn already Vinny (hahahahah). He just sticking around for the millions, so treat him anyway you choose. He played Danny boy for a sucker. He knew he wasn't qualified. He thought I am Zorn the "genius" I can do anything. You don't play with people's money, or their Redskins. Million dollar contracts have made liars out of the best of men. Zorn gets no sympathy from me. Con man Zorn.[/quote]

Awfully early to be so loaded.

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

I know right???

Re: Holmgren: Redskins's Treatment of Zorn Was Wrong
 

[quote=Longtimefan;619656]Certainly does not come as surprise from someone who had Zorn in his employ for so long. If that's his feeling, it's difficult to argue with him.[/quote]

Many a people are good at what they do, but when put in position of authority.....they suck.

I'm sure Zorn has some nice qualities, but there are some glaringly bad qualities as well...

1) He fails at motivational speaking.
2) He failed to adjust his scheme for the talent he has.
3) His play calling is a failure.

I'll agree it was unfair to take the play calling away. I would have let him sink or swim as a HC. VC would be gone by now though. Players put on notice that they are playing to keep their jobs next yr.