Offensive Line
 

We've talked about the line ad nauseum, because they're horrible and will be horrible the rest of the season, so this isn't really anything new.

But didn't the coaches get together after the season last year and point to the failings along the line as the reason for the 2-6 finish?

I point this out because it reinforces how horrible Vinny is as a personnel chief. Who knows, this coaching staff might be worth a darn, but we'll never know because they'll be gone before this team gets adequate talent along the line.

Ridiculous.

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=Schneed10;621980]We've talked about the line ad nauseum, because they're horrible and will be horrible the rest of the season, so this isn't really anything new.
[B]
But didn't the coaches get together after the season last year and point to the failings along the line as the reason for the 2-6 finish?[/B]

I point this out because it reinforces how horrible Vinny is as a personnel chief. Who knows, this coaching staff might be worth a darn, but we'll never know because they'll be gone before this team gets adequate talent along the line.

Ridiculous.[/quote]

Yup. During the personnel evaluation meetings back in late January they determined exactly that. And then did nothing about it. I've said it more than once and I'll say it again - the front office is getting just what they deserve.

Read this: [url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/skins-first-set-of-personnel-m.html]Redskins Insider - Initial Personnel Ratings Completed[/url]
:doh:

Re: Offensive Line
 

Agreed.

It's painfully obvious why we're not a winning team. We didn't attempt to solidify a known major deficiency, and instead went for the big name guy. A lot of moves in this league are based on risk... and we obviously took the wrong ones.

Hindsight is 20/20, but everyone was saying this before the offseason last year. At some point lack of competency turns into outright stupidity.

Re: Offensive Line
 

Vinny's idea of depth along the line is getting a guy a who hasn't played football for three years, and was 100 lbs out of shape. And the fact that one of the very few o-lineman Cerrato has drafted, Chad Rinehart, can't even crack the lineup of this horrible o-line is an indictment to how bad of player a player he is, just another Cerrato bust.

Re: Offensive Line
 

offensive indeed

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Big Mike Williams is stuggling at Tackle. He would be better at RG. We need to get Levi Jones at LT and Heyer back to RT. Move Mike Williams to RG. Might help a little.

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this is THE main issue with our team hands down.....if you put tom brady back there you have the same result because the line sucks....we should use EVERY pick on OL next draft.

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It is what it is, and there's not any help on the horizion. It's a situation that without question needs to be addressed, unfortunately we cannot address it midseason. We have to play the remainder of the season with what we have.

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Wow, I didn't know we had line issues and must have missed the 30,000 post on this subject the past 8 months.

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=firstdown;622330]Wow, I didn't know we had line issues and must have missed the 30,000 post on this subject the past 8 months.[/quote]

Vinny Cerrato certainly missed them.

It's pretty pathetic when your knowledgeable fan can diagnose and resolve most of the team issues while the GM continues to have his head up his ass.

Re: Offensive Line
 

So who do you all think we should get FA wise and Draft wise?

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=firstdown;622330]Wow, I didn't know we had line issues and must have missed the 30,000 post on this subject the past 8 months.[/quote]

Here's some other issues you must of missed while you were in your coma.

1.)Portis has lost a step
2.) JC is not a leader of this team
3.)Vinny drafts terrible players
4.) Snyder should sell the team
5.) Jim Zorn should be fired

I'm sure if you used the search feature that this site has you could come across about 10 threads per issue

Re: Offensive Line
 

Where was Levi Jones today? I thought with the bye it would have been enough time to get him "coached up".

Re: Offensive Line
 

Jason Campbell has been sacked 11 times in the past two games. [B]Mark Rypien was sacked 9 times total in 19 games in '91[/B], culminating with our last Super Bowl victory. It all starts with the offensive line, which Vinny has all but ignored the last two years when our best linemen were getting old. As the original post states, we'll never know whether this staff could have been successful. Bill Belichick would be a loser with this crap protection of the QB. Rule one in the passing game - keep your QB upright so he has a fighting chance to make plays!!!

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=Mattyk72;622370]Where was Levi Jones today? I thought with the bye it would have been enough time to get him "coached up".[/quote]
I thought so to. When Heyer looked like he was hurt he went running on to the field and Heyer waived him back. I have got to say that Mike Williams is the worst RT i have ever seen. I am shocked that they did not bring in Jones to play LT and move Heyer back to RT. Batiste sucks too.

Re: Offensive Line
 

Problem, in my mind, is that by the time the coaches concluded that offensive line was a major deficiency, it was too late to make major corrections to it. We had already spent three second round picks on other parts of the offense the year prior, and had already traded a second rounder for Jason Taylor.

The only thing that could have been done was to take Michael Oher or Alex Mack with the thirteenth overall pick.

But then this thread would be titled "Defensive Line", and there would be a whole lot more Haynesworth bashing.

Re: Offensive Line
 

Piggybacking on what I've just said, you could see the inability of the offensive line to open up holes way back in 2007. Samuels was healthy then, so the pass protection wasn't awful that year, but the point is, you could have seen the end coming, even assuming a healthy Samuels, which would have turned out to be an incorrect assumption.

I think it's long been documented that Vinny feels that lineman are misvalued in the draft and that a good coach will find offensive lineman just off the scrap heap, but even given that assumption, he never really committed to the OL in the late round either. That could have been done in this draft.

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=GTripp0012;622453]Piggybacking on what I've just said, you could see the inability of the offensive line to open up holes way back in 2007. Samuels was healthy then, so the pass protection wasn't awful that year, but the point is, you could have seen the end coming, even assuming a healthy Samuels, which would have turned out to be an incorrect assumption.

I think it's long been documented that Vinny feels that lineman are misvalued in the draft and that a good coach will find offensive lineman just off the scrap heap, but even given that assumption, he never really committed to the OL in the late round either. That could have been done in this draft.[/quote]
He could have pick Duke Robinson in the fifth instead of that idiot LB they drafted.

Re: Offensive Line
 

It looks to me like Mike Williams is back up to 370. Has anyone else noticed his fat ass getting bigger.

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[quote=T.O.Killa;622455]He could have pick Duke Robinson in the fifth instead of that idiot LB they drafted.[/quote]

Yup. Cody effing Glenn. What a fail that was. I mean, the kid played 9 games at LB his whole college career. 9!! And we drafted him over decent O-linemen. What a joke.

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=GMScud;622457]Yup. Cody effing Glenn. What a fail that was. I mean, the kid played 9 games at LB his whole college career. 9!! And we drafted him over decent O-lineman. What a joke.[/quote]
Yeah, the guy was a full back that could'nt get on the field with character issues and we draft him.

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;622456]It looks to me like Mike Williams is back up to 370. Has anyone else noticed his fat ass getting bigger.[/quote]

I actually think he's looking good. He's down around 340 last I knew. Too bad his play wasn't as exceptional as his weight loss, but it's hard to blame him much, he's doing the best that he can. Gotta blame the front office for having a guy like this as a backup plan.

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=Mattyk72;622466]I actually think he's looking good. He's down around 340 last I knew. Too bad his play wasn't as exceptional as his weight loss, but it's hard to blame him much, he's doing the best that he can. Gotta blame the front office for having a guy like this as a backup plan.[/quote]
I know that he got down to 340, but looking at him on tv it looks like he is gaining it back

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;622455]He could have pick Duke Robinson in the fifth instead of that idiot LB they drafted.[/quote]

I was saying that back on draft day, but some people here were all for the idea of developing Cody Glenn. And how did that one go, as for our season? Yeah thats what I thought.

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[quote=CultBrennan59;622520]I was saying that back on draft day, but some people here were all for the idea of developing Cody Glenn. And how did that one go, as for our season? Yeah thats what I thought.[/quote]

"Duke Robinson, the Number 1 guard in the draft? The guy who fell to the fifth round because Timmy Tebow and the Gators lit his ass up? Naw, eff that. Gemme a LB".

Vinny Speak!

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;622390]I thought so to. When Heyer looked like he was hurt he went running on to the field and Heyer waived him back. I have got to say that Mike Williams is the worst RT i have ever seen. I am shocked that they did not bring in Jones to play LT and move Heyer back to RT. Batiste sucks too.[/quote]

The O line should have been replentished starting when Gibbs came back. Can't fault Gibbs, but wouldn't you think his input would have helped? I know we got Thomas, but someone should have been smart enough to at least draft a couple linemen every draft since then (Gibbs coming back). I would think Bugel would have said something also. I don't think this is stupidity per say. Snyder doesn't want to win, or more to the point cares either way, as long as he is making a bundle of dough. He will get Cowher, Holmgren, or Shanahan in here in 2010, all the stupid homers will OD on the Kool Aid, be really excited about the upcoming season only to end up 8-8 or 7-9. For all that money Snyder spent our roster sucks fellas, it really does!!!! Those vaunted Wrs of ours are junk. Mitchell might be able to make something of himself, but the others are worthless. Campbell has peaked, he is not going to improve. Spurrier ruined Ramsey, Gibbs sent him packing without really giving the kid a chance in his system. Before that my man Gus was given the reins for several seasons and couldn't improve over what he gave us in '95 and '96 so Casserly showed him the door after the '98 campaign. We can all say JC is a decent Qb(and we would be right), but this guy has peaked, and to be honest I think this crazy ass organization ruined him from developing into something special. It was nice to see the rook from TB come in and kick some ass. As long as he doesn't get a big head, he might have some real potential.

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;622390]I thought so to. When Heyer looked like he was hurt he went running on to the field and Heyer waived him back. I have got to say that Mike Williams is the worst RT i have ever seen. I am shocked that they did not bring in Jones to play LT and move Heyer back to RT. Batiste sucks too.[/quote]

That just shows you where Levi is at if he can't crack this lineup. There's probably a good reason he hasn't played a snap this year.

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;622520]I was saying that back on draft day, but some people here were all for the idea of developing Cody Glenn. And how did that one go, as for our season? Yeah thats what I thought.[/quote]

I dont remember anyone saying that they liked that pick.

Also Jamon Meridith was available late in the 5th.

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=GTripp0012;622444]Problem, in my mind, is that by the time the coaches concluded that offensive line was a major deficiency, it was too late to make major corrections to it. We had already spent three second round picks on other parts of the offense the year prior, and had already traded a second rounder for Jason Taylor.

The only thing that could have been done was to take Michael Oher or Alex Mack with the thirteenth overall pick.

But then this thread would be titled "Defensive Line", and there would be a whole lot more Haynesworth bashing.[/quote]

Any analysis of the front office moves has to start well before the 2-6 collapse from last year when the coaches saw that the line was to blame.

Our line doesn't suck because we passed on Michael Oher in April's draft. Our line sucks because over the last 5 years we made one attempt to draft a semi talented offensive lineman, and we missed miserably.

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[quote=GTripp0012;622453]Piggybacking on what I've just said, you could see the inability of the offensive line to open up holes way back in 2007. Samuels was healthy then, so the pass protection wasn't awful that year, but the point is, you could have seen the end coming, even assuming a healthy Samuels, which would have turned out to be an incorrect assumption.

I think it's long been documented that Vinny feels that lineman are misvalued in the draft and that a good coach will find offensive lineman just off the scrap heap, but even given that assumption, he never really committed to the OL in the late round either. That could have been done in this draft.[/quote]

THe problem has been there with the O line even before Gibbs came back. UNfortunately we only drafted Jansen and Samuels, while we should have kept drafting one linemen a year thereafter, if for nothing else than depth. THe FO screwed up later on by using expensive FAs, giving up picks in the process for shoring up the line. THe only way out of this without having to wait 3-5 seasons to get a new line in place would be to trade Portis, Moss, or Haynesworth for multiple picks. I would even consider trading Cooley also.

Re: Offensive Line
 

Exactly. The last lineman the redskins drafted since Chris Samuels in the 3rd round or higher was Rinehart. I mean it's really just unbelievable...

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=takethecake;622537]Exactly. The last lineman the redskins drafted since Chris Samuels in the 3rd round or higher was Rinehart. I mean it's really just unbelievable...[/quote]


Samuels should have had another O linemen drafted to compliment him, so they could replace the "old" Norv line anchored by Lachey, Uhlenhake, etc. They should have drafted O linemen over the next 5 years and we would be sweet now. The draft that really pissed me off was the 2006 or 2007 draft, where we drafted those RBs, when we had CP, Betts, Rock, etc already here. If we would have drafted 2-3 O linemen maybe one could have been starter quality. Problem now is we don't have starter quality anywhere.

Re: Offensive Line
 

Ok I've been sorta slacking on my WP time lately, but I come back and feel like it's the twilight zone. How the eff do we talk exclusively about Vinny in regard to our o-line being the worst in professional football? How many times have I heard people say Vinny really took control just two years ago? We've almost completely ignored the line since Chris Samuels or appx ten years ago. The one consistent person over the era: Snyder and Snyder alone. Why the pretending he's not the reason for what's happened? Why the pretending he doesn't play a major role in personnel?

...I'm sorry but blaming Vinny is getting old. He's just a weird little toady who had almost nothing going for him when Snyder saw the perfect sycophant sitting at his little desk on ESPN one day. Vinny sucks at his job. No other franchise would let him beyond their lower level scouting. But Vinny didn't hire himself. C'mon.

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;622550]Ok I've been sorta slacking on my WP time lately, but I come back and feel like it's the twilight zone. How the eff do we talk exclusively about Vinny in regard to our o-line being the worst in professional football? How many times have I heard people say Vinny really took control just two years ago? We've almost completely ignored the line since Chris Samuels or appx ten years ago. The one consistent person over the era: Snyder and Snyder alone. Why the pretending he's not the reason for what's happened? Why the pretending he doesn't play a major role in personnel?

...I'm sorry but blaming Vinny is getting old. He's just a weird little toady who had almost nothing going for him when Snyder saw the perfect sycophant sitting at his little desk on ESPN one day. Vinny sucks at his job. No other franchise would let him beyond their lower level scouting. But Vinny didn't hire himself. C'mon.[/quote]

That makes sense ala AL Snyderato.

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I simply can't believe that someone put this group of linemen on an NFL roster. It's simply awful. JC may not be the future here but I feel bad for him. No QB (or RB) can operate behind this line.

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It's a jailbreak nearly every time JC drops back. I honestly feel bad for the guy.

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can someone explain why rinehart isn't on the field??? wtf???????????????????????????

Re: Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;622550]Ok I've been sorta slacking on my WP time lately, but I come back and feel like it's the twilight zone. How the eff do we talk exclusively about Vinny in regard to our o-line being the worst in professional football? How many times have I heard people say Vinny really took control just two years ago? We've almost completely ignored the line since Chris Samuels or appx ten years ago. The one consistent person over the era: Snyder and Snyder alone. Why the pretending he's not the reason for what's happened? Why the pretending he doesn't play a major role in personnel?

...I'm sorry but blaming Vinny is getting old. He's just a weird little toady who had almost nothing going for him when Snyder saw the perfect sycophant sitting at his little desk on ESPN one day. Vinny sucks at his job. No other franchise would let him beyond their lower level scouting. But Vinny didn't hire himself. C'mon.[/quote]

Don't worry, Danny is getting his share of the blame(see mImpetert and mImdub, et al). But Vinny should be gone. He deserves a good deal of the blame as he is the one putting this roster together. Everyone I have heard says this is the team VC wanted to put together, that he thought he assembled the pieces needed, from HC down to the last player on the practice squad, to bring winning football back to DC. Clearly he does not know what it takes to bring a winning team to DC and he should be let go post haste.

Re: Offensive Line
 

Mike Williams wouldn't be on another team much less starting and Heyer has just regressed. Montgomery is a converted D lineman and dockery is just average. All in all, I don't think worst O line in the league is too far fetched.

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im straight up agreeing with Schneed on this. year after year the skins have by passed need on the o line. and then reached for players like Williams. i would played Ed williams at center the rest of the year, to see if he can play. Rabach down right blows.next season, the only lineman i bring back are Dockery, and Ed Williams. that's it