Holmgren Agrees to Take Over Browns
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4744799]Cleveland Browns, Mike Holmgren meeting about front-office position - ESPN[/url]

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this is good news, because i don't want the old man here

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I've been thinking for a while he'll be in Cleveland. But it could just be leverage against Seattle. I think Holmgren is a bit surprised he wasn't just welcomed back with open arms in Seattle

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[quote=SmootSmack;640212]I've been thinking for a while he'll be in Cleveland. But it could just be leverage against Seattle. I think Holmgren is a bit surprised he wasn't just welcomed back with open arms in Seattle[/quote]

It's surprising that he might think that? They have not exactly been a powere in recent years

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I still think that if Zorn is retained that Holmgren would be the most suitable GM/mentor for the Redskins. He would have his boys Zorn and Sherm Lewis.

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;640237]I still think that if Zorn is retained that Holmgren would be the most suitable GM/mentor for the Redskins. He would have his boys Zorn and Sherm Lewis.[/quote]

I wouldn't be against that. Right now I just don't know anymore. You're so effing lucky to see the Skins win on your home turf. Did you get to go down to the hole? I've been there a few times. The stadium was almost empty so I assume the game was blacked out in The Bay?

They gave Quiton Gainther an interview. He talked about how rough it was growing up in Richmond and what it meant to play in front of his family. Have things gotten better? The last time I was there Richmond was a DMZ, not just rough.

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;640239]I wouldn't be against that. Right now I just don't know anymore. You're so effing lucky to see the Skins win on your home turf. Did you get to go down to the hole? I've been there a few times. The stadium was almost empty so I assume the game was blacked out in The Bay?

They gave Quinton Ganther an interview. He talked about how rough it was growing up in Richmond and what it meant to play in front of his family. Have things gotten better? The last time I was there Richmond was a DMZ, not just rough.[/quote]

Didn't go to the game, game was blacked out. I listened on the radio and watched some on Justintv.com before it was disconnected. Certain areas of Richmond are just as bad or worse than SE DC, people getting shot, killed everyday.

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;640244]Didn't go to the game, game was blacked out. I listened on the radio and watched some on Justintv.com before it was disconnected. Certain areas of Richmond are just as bad or worse than SE DC, people getting shot, killed everyday.[/quote]

Well at least you still have bragging rights.

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;640247]Well at least you still have bragging rights.[/quote]

A buddy I work with (Huge Raider fan, setups tailgate parties were Fred Belitnekoff, Jack Tatum and other old Raiders have come by and posed for pictures and signed autographs) he was telling me that when Jamarcus Russell came in relief, the stadium started booing and half the crowd left and you could feel the air being let out. That's pretty sad.

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;640237]I still think that if Zorn is retained that Holmgren would be the most suitable GM/mentor for the Redskins. He would have his boys Zorn and Sherm Lewis.[/quote]

I agree except I don't see Holmgren being the kind of person that will alow himself to be disrespected and pushed around. His persona just dosen't coinside with a personality like Snyder.

However, I'll go on record as saying I think they should retain both Zorn and Lewis. If I could find it in me to believe for some/any reason that Cerrato will be gone many other decisions would be easier.

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[quote=Longtimefan;640268]I agree except I don't see Holmgren being the kind of person that will alow himself to be disrespected and pushed around. His persona just dosen't coinside with a personality like Snyder.

However, I'll go on record as saying I think they should retain both Zorn and Lewis. If I could find it in me to believe for some/any reason that Cerrato will be gone many other decisions would be easier.[/quote]

If Snyder wants to win he will have to give Holmgren the respect he gave Gibbs and I think he would.

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;640270]If Snyder wants to win he will have to give Holmgren the respect he gave Gibbs and I think he would.[/quote]

I certainly want to think you're right. Holmgren is the kind of man that will demand respect.

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;640259]A buddy I work with (Huge Raider fan, setups tailgate parties were Fred Belitnekoff, Jack Tatum and other old Raiders have come by and posed for pictures and signed autographs) he was telling me that when Jamarcus Russell came in relief, the stadium started booing and half the crowd left and you could feel the air being let out. That's pretty sad.[/quote]

you could hear it and see it on tv a well

didn't holmgrem give the browns a x-mas deadline too? sorry to lazy to read the article

re: Holmgren Agrees to Take Over Browns
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;640259]A buddy I work with (Huge Raider fan, setups tailgate parties were Fred Belitnekoff, Jack Tatum and other old Raiders have come by and posed for pictures and signed autographs) he was telling me that when Jamarcus Russell came in relief, the stadium started booing and half the crowd left and you could feel the air being let out. That's pretty sad.[/quote]

Oh yeah! When I saw Ja-fat-ass Russell come in I knew we'd won. Raiders fans may be a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. I miss the Bay sometimes. Anything cool happening in El Cerrito? I heard they took over Berkeley and threatened to kill the President because of the cuts.

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;640304]Oh yeah! When I saw Ja-fat-ass Russell come in I knew we'd won. Raiders fans may be a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. I miss the Bay sometimes. Anything cool happening in El Cerrito? I heard they took over Berkeley and threatened to kill the President because of the cuts.[/quote]

Yeah, some idiots tore up the UC Berkeley Dean's house and in El Cerrito some 14 year old kid raped some 12 year old girl in school. Lots of fucked up news around here. Luckily I'm over on the coast were things are pretty mellow and quiet, we are waiting for the waves to reach around 30 feet for the Maverick's competition, my sons classmates dad is one of the local competitors.

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;640304][B]Oh yeah! When I saw Ja-fat-ass Russell come in I knew we'd won[/B]. Raiders fans may be a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. I miss the Bay sometimes. Anything cool happening in El Cerrito? I heard they took over Berkeley and threatened to kill the President because of the cuts.[/quote]I was really looking forward to a game that would be decided by JaMarcus vs. Smoot/Landry, and it was really too bad that Orakpo denied us a look at such hilarity. If there was ever an opportunity for a black hole of suck to open up on an NFL field...that was the place and time.

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What makes Holmgren such a great choice to be GM?

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[quote=SmootSmack;640503]What makes Holmgren such a great choice to be GM?[/quote]

Must be the mustache

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[quote=SmootSmack;640503]What makes Holmgren such a great choice to be GM?[/quote]

I'm not sure anything really does other than it shows a willingness to go in another direction. Plus he is familiar with Zorn and the WCO and I think the feeling is he would stop some of Snyder's questionable personell decisions.

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[quote=SmootSmack;640503]What makes Holmgren such a great choice to be GM?[/quote]

Well if he came here, i think he'd have enough of Snyder's respect that Snyder would be less inclined to "meddle."

Also, for what its worth, Dinello over on that [I]other[/I] forum said his contact with [the Browns] told him Holmgren said he was too old to work in the "toxic" environment here and that he's been informed (presumably from Zorn) that Zorn and Campbell will be out after the season and that Cerrato will be the GM.

Dinello doesn't post there very often but he's got about a 50/50 track record so take all of this with a grain of salt. I beleive he has a credible source, but you never know if what people's sources being told is true or current.

If true, i've got mixed feelings. Cerrato's done an above-average job drafting players, but I don't trust him to 1) select a capable head coach and 2) Do what he feels is best for the team if it conflicts with what Snyder wants.

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[quote=SmootSmack;640503]What makes Holmgren such a great choice to be GM?[/quote]

Nothing!! Bring back Charlie Casserly. Snyder admitted it was a mistake to fire him in the first place. His decision to draft Mario Williams over Reggie Bush was still the right one.

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[quote=Longtimefan;640540]Nothing!! Bring back Charlie Casserly. Snyder admitted it was a mistake to fire him in the first place. His decision to draft Mario Williams over Reggie Bush was still the right one.[/quote]

I wouldn't mind that, the only reason I want Holmgren is that he has a history with Zorn and could serve as an offensive mentor to him if necessary.

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[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;640532]Well if he came here, i think he'd have enough of Snyder's respect that Snyder would be less inclined to "meddle."

Also, for what its worth, Dinello over on that [I]other[/I] forum said his contact with [the Browns] told him Holmgren said he was too old to work in the "toxic" environment here and that he's been informed (presumably from Zorn) that Zorn and Campbell will be out after the season and that Cerrato will be the GM.

Dinello doesn't post there very often but he's got about a 50/50 track record so take all of this with a grain of salt. I beleive he has a credible source, but you never know if what people's sources being told is true or current.

If true, i've got mixed feelings. Cerrato's done an above-average job drafting players, but I don't trust him to 1) select a capable head coach and 2) Do what he feels is best for the team if it conflicts with what Snyder wants.[/quote]

Interesting tidbits. It will be interesting to see where Holmgren can work. He's had the benefit of being in charge under Paul Allen, the most hands-off owner in the league. And nothing against Seattle. But I would suspect that the fans are a bit more forgiving there than in Cleveland or DC

As to Zorn, Campbell, and Cerrato. I think Zorn is gone. Campbell is probably 30% likely to stay (but it's still possible), and Cerrato is probably about 70% (but he won't be the GM...allegedy)

No source is 100% right.

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;640545]I wouldn't mind that, the only reason I want Holmgren is that he has a history with Zorn and could serve as an offensive mentor to him if necessary.[/quote]

Assuming Zorn stayed, do we really need Holmgren as our GM/President/Grand Poobah to be a mentor to Zorn? Couldn't he just do that now anyway?

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[quote=SmootSmack;640548]Interesting tidbits. It will be interesting to see where Holmgren can work. He's had the benefit of being in charge under Paul Allen, the most hands-off owner in the league. And nothing against Seattle. But I would suspect that the fans are a bit more forgiving there than in Cleveland or DC

As to Zorn, Campbell, and Cerrato. I think Zorn is gone. Campbell is probably 30% likely to stay (but it's still possible), and Cerrato is probably about 70% (but he won't be the GM...allegedy)

No source is 100% right.[/quote]

If you are right, this team is never going to win with a rebuild mentality every 2 to 3 years. Whatever happened to that patience Danny learned from Gibbs?

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[quote=SmootSmack;640550]Assuming Zorn stayed, do we really need Holmgren as our GM/President/Grand Poobah to be a mentor to Zorn? Couldn't he just do that now anyway?[/quote]

NOt if he goes to Cleveland!
I think i get what he's saying about having Holmgren & Zorn work together. I don't think it's mentorship, if that's a word, I think it just appears to make sense given their working history. It sounds good to me, if Holmgren is a legit GM.

All I know about that is his history in Seattle; once they took gm duties from him the team did better. That may have been simply due to the inherent difficulties of being coach/gm.

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;640545]I wouldn't mind that, the only reason I want Holmgren is that he has a history with Zorn and could serve as an offensive mentor to him if necessary.[/quote]

I understand your position, but keep in mind Holmgren has witnessed the kind of treatment his friend Zorn has received of late and may not be so anxious to become a part of that kind of ridicule. It's the kind of thing that I'm sure would make him look hard and long at other options if they're available.

I'm looking for credentials as well, he does no have any experience at running a front office either. He'd be a trial and error candidate at best, the only advantage it would have is he would be working with people he's familiar with, Zorn, Lewis, Mitchell and maybe a couple of others.

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[quote=Longtimefan;640555]I understand your position, but keep in mind Holmgren has witnessed the kind of treatment his friend Zorn has received of late and may not be so anxious to become a part of that kind of ridicule. It's the kind of thing that I'm sure would make him look hard and long at other options if they're available.[/quote]

I understand, but on the other side of the coin if Snyder keeps Zorn that would be a redeeming quality and in Holmgren's eyes he would have made the right choice which would open the opportunity for him as GM. I think he learned something from Walsh on player personnel. Here's a Holmgren GM timeline.

[url=http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/media/Holmgren%20GM%20Timeline.htm]TIMELINE: HOLMGREN AS GM (1999-2002)[/url]

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;640551]If you are right, this team is never going to win with a rebuild mentality every 2 to 3 years. Whatever happened to that patience Danny learned from Gibbs?[/quote]

He lied, hence all the talk about a new coach. To his credit though the talk is not coming from the FO, it's coming from fans and media types. I won't entertain the notion of a new coach until Zorn is actually fired.

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It would be interesting to see if Holmgren gets hired by the browns would he bring Jim Zorn in as his head coach.

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;640556]I understand, but on the other side of the coin if Snyder keeps Zorn that would be a redeeming quality and in Holmgren's eyes he would have made the right choice which would open the opportunity for him as GM. I think he learned something from Walsh on player personnel. Here's a Holmgren GM timeline.

[url=http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/media/Holmgren%20GM%20Timeline.htm]TIMELINE: HOLMGREN AS GM (1999-2002)[/url][/quote]

Excellent....So it goes without saying that if Holmgren would be in, Cerrato would be out. It just get's harder and harder for me to come to grips with the face that Snyder will actually fire Cerrato. I will only believe that if/when I see it.

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[quote=SmootSmack;640548]Interesting tidbits. It will be interesting to see where Holmgren can work. He's had the benefit of being in charge under Paul Allen, the most hands-off owner in the league. And nothing against Seattle. But I would suspect that the fans are a bit more forgiving there than in Cleveland or DC

As to Zorn, Campbell, and Cerrato. I think Zorn is gone. Campbell is probably 30% likely to stay (but it's still possible), [B]and Cerrato is probably about 70% (but he won't be the GM...allegedy)[/B]

No source is 100% right.[/quote]

Based on your intel, could you answer the following: Is Cerrato going to be:
A) Promoted (Team President or something like that)
B) Demoted (Director of College Scouting or something like that)
C) Transfered (Senior Executive Vice President of Media Operations or something like that)
D) Fired outright

If B, and the new GM will be someone in-house, I imagine it could create for some awkward situations as someone who now reports (directly or indirectly) to Cerrato would become his boss. I don't see that arrangement working well at all.

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Cerrato promoted?

That sure would be the ultimate FU from Snyder to the fans, my god. :doh:

I don't think Snyder would be that dumb.

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[quote=Mattyk72;640577]Cerrato promoted?

That sure would be the ultimate FU from Snyder to the fans, my god. :doh:

I don't think Snyder would be that dumb.[/quote]

Well I don't see how he can keep Cerrato around otherwise. Last time we went down this road Marty came in and canned his ass in a week. Either Vinny has nothing to do with football and Snyder tells him to eff off and not talk to him about it or he has to be gone. Because apparently he's a schmuck who can't be trusted to not whisper sweet nothings in DS's ear and undermine the whole operation.

And considering DS's apparent affinity for VC I am scared he can't actually bring himself to can him.

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Cerrato will be promoted to Executive Limo driver, racquetball fluffer.

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I hate the fact that our minor improvement over the last month could save Vinny's job! This is still a bad football team that is certain to fire the coach that he hand selected. Back in the summer I thought to myself that I was prepared for a horrible season if it meant getting rid of Vinny once and for all. And now I am becoming faced with the thought of Vinny staying in spite of this awful season. If he is not fired now he never will be. He is the only person in the organization not held accountable for the results of the team.

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[quote=celts32;640606]I hate the fact that our minor improvement over the last month could save Vinny's job! This is still a bad football team that is certain to fire the coach that he hand selected. Back in the summer I thought to myself that I was prepared for a horrible season if it meant getting rid of Vinny once and for all. And now I am becoming faced with the thought of Vinny staying in spite of this awful season. If he is not fired now he never will be. He is the only person in the organization not held accountable for the results of the team.[/quote]

other than 1st round picks, its rare that draft picks contribute significantly in their rookie years. Receivers, specifically, typicaly take 2-3 years to become nfl-caliber players. The West Coast Offense takes 2-3 years for everyone - rookies and veterans - and especially QBs to master. It hasnt even been 2 years yet, and atleast 75% of the players Cerrato drafted look to be worthy of their draft selections. Other than the knee-jerk decision to trade for Jason Taylor and the decision to hire Jim Zorn as HC, Cerrato's done a pretty good job. More than anything else, the performance of the offense in the past month or so is PROOF that he's done a pretty good job overall and an above-average job in the player acquisition department. Will Cerrato be held accountable for his choice of Zorn as HC? We don't even know yet. Should he be fired for hiring Zorn? everyone is entitlted to their opinion. Its a coin toss for me. I could understand either decision. But Snyder would be a complete fool to fire Cerrato without having someone [U]better[/U] lined up. If Snyder doesn't fire Cerrato, it'll be more of a testement to his inability to find someone better willing to take the job than anything else.

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[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;640575]Based on your intel, could you answer the following: Is Cerrato going to be:
A) Promoted (Team President or something like that)
B) Demoted (Director of College Scouting or something like that)
C) Transfered (Senior Executive Vice President of Media Operations or something like that)
D) Fired outright

If B, and the new GM will be someone in-house, I imagine it could create for some awkward situations as someone who now reports (directly or indirectly) to Cerrato would become his boss. I don't see that arrangement working well at all.[/quote]

I don't know. The most fervent speculation has been a combination of A/C and I guess by default a little of B. Think Falcons

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[quote=SmootSmack;640621]I don't know. The most fervent speculation has been a combination of A/C and I guess by default a little of B. Think Falcons[/quote]

Interesting. I certainly think he'd be perfect running our college scouting operations, but I doubt he'd be "satisfied" in that sort of role.

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[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;640615]other than 1st round picks, its rare that draft picks contribute significantly in their rookie years. Receivers, specifically, typicaly take 2-3 years to become nfl-caliber players. The West Coast Offense takes 2-3 years for everyone - rookies and veterans - and especially QBs to master. It hasnt even been 2 years yet, and atleast 75% of the players Cerrato drafted look to be worthy of their draft selections. Other than the knee-jerk decision to trade for Jason Taylor and the decision to hire Jim Zorn as HC, Cerrato's done a pretty good job. More than anything else, the performance of the offense in the past month or so is PROOF that he's done a pretty good job overall and an above-average job in the player acquisition department. Will Cerrato be held accountable for his choice of Zorn as HC? We don't even know yet. Should he be fired for hiring Zorn? everyone is entitlted to their opinion. Its a coin toss for me. I could understand either decision. But Snyder would be a complete fool to fire Cerrato without having someone [U]better[/U] lined up. If Snyder doesn't fire Cerrato, it'll be more of a testement to his inability to find someone better willing to take the job than anything else.[/quote]

Well apparently you choose to excuse him for the past 10 years since he was not in complete control for some of them. I do not. Explain how he is the only employee in a key position that gets to stay through one failed regime to the next? And as for his draft picks...how did he use them to address the OL? Fred Davis may look pretty good now but why not an OL with that pick when we already had Cooley? Or why not a OL with the Malcom Kelly pick? We can look at individual picks all we want but he does not know how to construct a complete team. Why is it that we are finding OL on the street after the season is already down the tubes that are better then the backups we had in training camp? He claimed we did not need a good backup for Samuels because you can't replace a pro bowler. Every time I hear him open his mouth I am embarresed as a Redskins fan.