The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

Here it is. Discuss the Rooney rule here. For the record I have no problem with it. Big deal. All owners are white I believe so it makes some sense. Now keep the discussion out of threads about other things.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

Respect T.O. Killa..now all of you good ole boys can have your meeting here..

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

You know, on of the best things about blogging is every body is not seen for anything other than there posts. We should probably keep it that way.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

This thread needs closed. It has been proven in other threads that the Redskins indeed followed the Rooney rule. Roger Goodell has said the same thing...

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

I don't think it's necessary to ask whether the Skins followed the rules because that has been a non-issue from the start. The commish is satisfied they did, so let's move on.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=Eknox;641912]Respect T.O. Killa..now all of you good ole boys can have your meeting here..[/quote]
You're really the only one showing an ill regard of particular races in these threads man.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

Since when is life fair?

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

I think the dearth of minority coaches in a league with such a high percet6age of minority players is striking. It has probably less to do with actual racism rather much less treacherous reasons like simply being a culture thing. I am not usually a big fan of sledge hammer ideas like a Rooney rule but in this case the league decided to so it and I think it will help change the culture issue sooner so it is a good idea...As long as there is the understanding that at some point you get rid of the rule.

Title IX falls into the same boat for me. It has done its job admirably and very much helped raise the equality of sports in in college but it is causing problems unfairly now and should be thrown out. It has successfully changed the culture so it is time to kill it. But they haven't.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=Mattyk72;641923]I don't think it's necessary to ask whether the Skins followed the rules because that has been a non-issue from the start. The commish is satisfied they did, so let's move on.[/quote]

Well, Im going to assume that most in here are not people of color. For those who are of color, we find it hard to just "accept" things off of merit, when it comes to race, just because someone says that they followed the rules.

The Rooney rule is a positive step in the right direction for diversity amongst the head coaching and GM ranks in the NFL. However, it is far from being perfect, and even farther from actually having an working long term. When one can use the current loopholes to bypass the system, it defeats the purpose when we see a guy resigns and then a replacements in less than 24 hours. I am skeptical of the time it took from hearing about Cerrato's resignation to the time we found out the Allen would be replacing him.

Now, can we honestly sit here and say, with that time frame, that there was enough time to SERIOUSLY consider an African American, Asian America or Hispanic/Latino for the GM job? I seriously doubt that is possible.

I honestly feel that if Dan Snyder did follow the Rooney Rule, it was just so that he could pacify the league. He really just wanted to bypass the system so he could get his man. Snyder is a man who likes to get what he wants by any means necessary, and it would make perfect sense for him to say he considered someone seriously when all he did was go through the motions in order to get Allen.

Now, if there is anyone who doubts me, you can help us all find the truth if we can answer these two requests:

1) find out the minority or minorities that we did interview for GM job

2) then lets find out how many people of color(that are not Jerry Gray or Greg Blache) we interview before Shannahan, Gruden, Cowher, or Holmgren show up in Burgundy and Gold.

Im just saying, don't be so quick to drink the Kool-Aid. Racism still exists. I applaud TO Killa for bringing this up, and I pray that all those who are not in the "minority" would take this issue seriously, because one day those in the majority may find themselves in the minority.

A wise man once said, "The first shall be last, and the last shall be first." Things have a way of correcting themselves, while teaching a valuable lesson. One would be wise to heed such a lesson.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=SkinsFanSince91;641966]I honestly feel that if Dan Snyder did follow the Rooney Rule, it was just so that he could pacify the league. [/quote]

If this was the case, I'm fine with that. There's no way you can make it 100% fair. But the Rooney Rule is fair enough. As long as a minority candidate is given a chance for an opportunity, then I'm fine with it.

And for you all that think the Rooney Rule is unfair towards non-minorities - it's not a given [B]opportunity[/B], it's a given [B]chance[/B] at an opportunity.

Big difference.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

...No and Yes.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

I'm with the people who say that it is unfair to waste the minority's time with the interview, when it is obvious that the team already has someone that they want to hire.

I would not want to be the minority person whose time is wasted just for the sake of a team pacifying the rule...

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

The best man for the job. How about that?

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=SkinsFanSince91;641966]Well, Im going to assume that most in here are not people of color. For those who are of color, we find it hard to just "accept" things off of merit, when it comes to race, just because someone says that they followed the rules.

The Rooney rule is a positive step in the right direction for diversity amongst the head coaching and GM ranks in the NFL. However, it is far from being perfect, and even farther from actually having an working long term. When one can use the current loopholes to bypass the system, it defeats the purpose when we see a guy resigns and then a replacements in less than 24 hours. I am skeptical of the time it took from hearing about Cerrato's resignation to the time we found out the Allen would be replacing him.

Now, can we honestly sit here and say, with that time frame, that there was enough time to SERIOUSLY consider an African American, Asian America or Hispanic/Latino for the GM job? I seriously doubt that is possible.

I honestly feel that if Dan Snyder did follow the Rooney Rule, it was just so that he could pacify the league. He really just wanted to bypass the system so he could get his man. Snyder is a man who likes to get what he wants by any means necessary, and it would make perfect sense for him to say he considered someone seriously when all he did was go through the motions in order to get Allen.

Now, if there is anyone who doubts me, you can help us all find the truth if we can answer these two requests:

1) find out the minority or minorities that we did interview for GM job

2) then lets find out how many people of color(that are not Jerry Gray or Greg Blache) we interview before Shannahan, Gruden, Cowher, or Holmgren show up in Burgundy and Gold.

Im just saying, don't be so quick to drink the Kool-Aid. Racism still exists. I applaud TO Killa for bringing this up, and I pray that all those who are not in the "minority" would take this issue seriously, because one day those in the majority may find themselves in the minority.

A wise man once said, "The first shall be last, and the last shall be first." Things have a way of correcting themselves, while teaching a valuable lesson. One would be wise to heed such a lesson.[/quote]
Sources are saying that we interviewed at least one.. around 10 days ago or so.

What do you think is enough time to consider a minority? Does that vary from the time it takes to consider anybody else?

Do you have an statistics on the percentage of men that want these jobs? That are qualified?

It's ridiculous to look at it in terms of race when there are qualified people of many races. There are what.. 6 or 7 black head coaches? Right around 20pct of the coaches, which is a higher percentage than the actual racial demographics of the USA. Maybe not the same as players in the NFL, but honestly, not everyone that has played is good enough to coach.. or even become a broadcaster, so I don't really look at that argument much.

Coaches of all colors have had successes and failures and that is the way that it will remain. When we no longer have to bring race into the discussion it will be much better. Unfortunately it seems to come equally from both sides, it won't disappear just from the whites overlooking it.

Re: The Rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;641979]The best man for the job. How about that?[/quote]
as much as i hate to admit this, i agree. im friends with a ton of minorities, and they all hate affirmative action, which is what this is loosely based on. lets go with qualifications, not skin pigmentation

Re: The Rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=dmek25;641985]as much as i hate to admit this, i agree. im friends with a ton of minorities, and they all hate affirmative action, which is what this is loosely based on. lets go with qualifications, not skin pigmentation[/quote]

There's no reason to be ashamed that you agree with me. Even your homeboy Saden does sometimes. It's rare, but it happens. All I want is the Redskins to win, be it with a black dude or not. Who gives a fuck?

I'll admit it. I'm too weak to carry the load of other people's resentments on my back. Let someone else do it.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=SkinsFanSince91;641966]Well, Im going to assume that most in here are not people of color. For those who are of color, we find it hard to just "accept" things off of merit, when it comes to race, just because someone says that they followed the rules.

The Rooney rule is a positive step in the right direction for diversity amongst the head coaching and GM ranks in the NFL. However, it is far from being perfect, and even farther from actually having an working long term. When one can use the current loopholes to bypass the system, it defeats the purpose when we see a guy resigns and then a replacements in less than 24 hours. I am skeptical of the time it took from hearing about Cerrato's resignation to the time we found out the Allen would be replacing him.

Now, [B]can we honestly sit here and say, with that time frame, that there was enough time to SERIOUSLY consider an African American, Asian America or Hispanic/Latino for the GM job?[/B] I seriously doubt that is possible.

I honestly feel that if Dan Snyder did follow the Rooney Rule, it was just so that he could pacify the league. He really just wanted to bypass the system so he could get his man. Snyder is a man who likes to get what he wants by any means necessary, and it would make perfect sense for him to say he considered someone seriously when all he did was go through the motions in order to get Allen.

Now, if there is anyone who doubts me, you can help us all find the truth if we can answer these two requests:

1) find out the minority or minorities that we did interview for GM job

2) then lets find out how many people of color(that are not Jerry Gray or Greg Blache) we interview before Shannahan, Gruden, Cowher, or Holmgren show up in Burgundy and Gold.

Im just saying, don't be so quick to drink the Kool-Aid. Racism still exists. I applaud TO Killa for bringing this up, and I pray that all those who are not in the "minority" would take this issue seriously, because one day those in the majority may find themselves in the minority.

A wise man once said, "The first shall be last, and the last shall be first." Things have a way of correcting themselves, while teaching a valuable lesson. One would be wise to heed such a lesson.[/quote]

Unless you're privy to their process, we have no idea what the timeframe involved here was. In fact, just think about the paragraph you wrote before the sentence I bolded. In it you say you doubt there was enough time to seriously consider a minority.

Well, explain then how there was enough time to seriously consider anyone? So are you assuming that Allen was picked for the job immediately after Cerrato resigned? Or are you assuming only Allen was identified as a candidate.

The time & the timing had nothing to do w/the Rooney Rule, the Skins had obviously been planning on making a move for a long time. How do you know who they talked to and how much they talked to them?

The league office said that the Skins complied w/the rule. That's enough for me. I don't think you can assume that the Skins didn't "seriously" consider a minority. Even if they didn't consider one seriously, I don't think you can assume that it's because they wanted a white GM, it's because they wanted a specific GM, one they feel fits the team & has a history w/them.

ON a somewhat related note. If Zorn is fired, which seems to be the consensus, I would love to see Jerry Gray get his chance as HC here. If not as a head coach, I hope he stays as DC & Blache retires.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

I believe in what Dr. King said. Judge people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

Quotas of any type tend to lead to problems, not solve them.

Re: The Rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;641992]There's no reason to be ashamed because you agree with me. Even your homeboy Saden does sometimes. It's rare, but it happens. All I want is the Redskins to win, be it with a black dude or not. Who gives a fuck?

I'll admit it. I'm too weak to [B]carry the load of other people's resentments on my back[/B]. Let someone else do it.[/quote]

dude, w/a name like Trample the Elderly, you've got help carry the load. It's Christmas after all! :)

Re: The Rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=freddyg12;641997]dude, w/a name like Trample the Elderly, you've got help carry the load. It's Christmas after all! :)[/quote]

That's a sick joke about our O-line. I really have nothing against the elderly except their driving skills. There's another thread for that.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=tryfuhl;641980]Sources are saying that we interviewed at least one.. around 10 days ago or so.

What do you think is enough time to consider a minority? Does that vary from the time it takes to consider anybody else?

Do you have an statistics on the percentage of men that want these jobs? That are qualified?

It's ridiculous to look at it in terms of race when there are qualified people of many races. There are what.. 6 or 7 black head coaches? Right around 20pct of the coaches, which is a higher percentage than the actual racial demographics of the USA. Maybe not the same as players in the NFL, but honestly, not everyone that has played is good enough to coach.. or even become a broadcaster, so I don't really look at that argument much.

Coaches of all colors have had successes and failures and that is the way that it will remain. When we no longer have to bring race into the discussion it will be much better. Unfortunately it seems to come equally from both sides, it won't disappear just from the whites overlooking it.[/quote]

I agree.

To answer your question. I do not have a formula or percentage to equate equality in the NFL, but I do believe a week is enough time for any franchise to ensure their due diligence..

All I want is to know who they interviewed, and maybe, just maybe have some of that information available after the selection is made.

It would have been nice to hear some of that information during the press conference. When none of that info ever comes out, then it just looks like the info that "we satisfied the commissioner's taste" seems like PR "smoke."

In short, the Rooney rule is a positive step in right direction to attaining parity in the executive ranks of the NFL coaching and management ranks, but process, in its current form, lacks transparency and allows teams to sidestep the spirit and intention of the rule. Changes could be made to enhance that original intent of the Rooney rule.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;641974]I'm with the people who say that it is unfair to waste the minority's time with the interview, when it is obvious that the team already has someone that they want to hire.

I would not want to be the minority person whose time is wasted just for the sake of a team pacifying the rule...[/quote]

Exactly, this is my view also.

Rules and PC ideas like this are the main reasons race is even an issue in peoples' minds still. I do not see skin color, but if I were hiring and forced to consider (discriminate) it as a factor in recruiting and screening, it's unnecessarily making race a point of qualification/disqualification.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=SkinsFanSince91;642014]I agree.

To answer your question. I do not have a formula or percentage to equate equality in the NFL, but I do believe a week is enough time for any franchise to ensure their due diligence..

All I want is to know who they interviewed, and maybe, just maybe have some of that information available after the selection is made.

It would have been nice to hear some of that information during the press conference. When none of that info ever comes out, then it just looks like the info that "we satisfied the commissioner's taste" seems like PR "smoke."

In short, the Rooney rule is a positive step in right direction to attaining parity in the executive ranks of the NFL coaching and management ranks, but process, in its current form, lacks transparency and allows teams to sidestep the spirit and intention of the rule. Changes could be made to enhance that original intent of the Rooney rule.[/quote]
Teams usually don't air out things like that and I'm not sure why it would change for our situation. Anybody who knows who they want is giving more than one interview out on a guy that they don't plan on hiring, regardless of race. It would be in bad taste to announce the guys that you didn't select in the press conference.

If the Rooney Rule contributed to some of the successful black coaches then I agree that it was a good step. Many of them have proven that they can lead teams quite well.

Re: The Rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;641992]There's no reason to be ashamed that you agree with me. Even your homeboy Saden does sometimes. It's rare, but it happens. [B]All I want is the Redskins to win, be it with a black dude or not. Who gives a fuck? [/B]

I'll admit it. I'm too weak to carry the load of other people's resentments on my back. Let someone else do it.[/quote]
i definitely agree with this. twice in one day, no wonder the snow is coming :)

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;641974]I'm with the people who say that it is unfair to waste the minority's time with the interview, when it is obvious that the team already has someone that they want to hire.

I would not want to be the minority person whose time is wasted just for the sake of a team pacifying the rule...[/quote]

It's not a waste of time when at least they are given a chance, even if it's a small chance that they may get the job.

That's all you can ask for is a chance.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=warriorzpath;642081]It's not a waste of time when at least they are given a chance, even if it's a small chance that they may get the job.

That's all you can ask for is a chance.[/quote]

Real MOFOs don't ask!

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

This whole thread is dumb. How do you define a "race"? Color, hair, what?
Tony Dungy is way lighter than some of my "white" friends. What percentage black do you have to be for rooney rule? Race is a MYTH people!!!!

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=elamin24;642104]This whole thread is dumb. How do you define a "race"? Color, hair, what?
Tony Dungy is way lighter than some of my "white" friends. What percentage black do you have to be for rooney rule? Race is a MYTH people!!!![/quote]

[IMG]http://blurredproductions.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/picard-facepalm2.jpg?w=300&h=240[/IMG]

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

whatevs i want to see what allen can do

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=SkinsFanSince91;642014]I agree.

To answer your question. I do not have a formula or percentage to equate equality in the NFL, but I do believe a week is enough time for any franchise to ensure their due diligence..

All I want is to know who they interviewed, and maybe, just maybe have some of that information available after the selection is made.

It would have been nice to hear some of that information during the press conference. When none of that info ever comes out, then it just looks like the info that "we satisfied the commissioner's taste" seems like PR "smoke."

In short, the Rooney rule is a positive step in right direction to attaining parity in the executive ranks of the NFL coaching and management ranks, but process, in its current form, lacks transparency and allows teams to sidestep the spirit and intention of the rule. Changes could be made to enhance that original intent of the Rooney rule.[/quote]

Well if an owner is dumb enough to not look at what they feel is the most qualified person because of their color then thats their stupid ass. If I was black the last person I would want to work for or with is the person forced to do so.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=warriorzpath;642081]It's not a waste of time when at least they are given a chance, even if it's a small chance that they may get the job.

That's all you can ask for is a chance.[/quote]
edit edit

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=SkinsFanSince91;641966]Well, Im going to assume that most in here are not people of color. For those who are of color, we find it hard to just "accept" things off of merit, when it comes to race, just because someone says that they followed the rules.

The Rooney rule is a positive step in the right direction for diversity amongst the head coaching and GM ranks in the NFL. However, it is far from being perfect, and even farther from actually having an working long term. When one can use the current loopholes to bypass the system, it defeats the purpose when we see a guy resigns and then a replacements in less than 24 hours. I am skeptical of the time it took from hearing about Cerrato's resignation to the time we found out the Allen would be replacing him.

Now, can we honestly sit here and say, with that time frame, that there was enough time to SERIOUSLY consider an African American, Asian America or Hispanic/Latino for the GM job? I seriously doubt that is possible.

I honestly feel that if Dan Snyder did follow the Rooney Rule, it was just so that he could pacify the league. He really just wanted to bypass the system so he could get his man. Snyder is a man who likes to get what he wants by any means necessary, and it would make perfect sense for him to say he considered someone seriously when all he did was go through the motions in order to get Allen.

Now, if there is anyone who doubts me, you can help us all find the truth if we can answer these two requests:

1) find out the minority or minorities that we did interview for GM job

2) then lets find out how many people of color(that are not Jerry Gray or Greg Blache) we interview before Shannahan, Gruden, Cowher, or Holmgren show up in Burgundy and Gold.

Im just saying, don't be so quick to drink the Kool-Aid. Racism still exists. I applaud TO Killa for bringing this up, and I pray that all those who are not in the "minority" would take this issue seriously, because one day those in the majority may find themselves in the minority.

A wise man once said, "The first shall be last, and the last shall be first." Things have a way of correcting themselves, while teaching a valuable lesson. One would be wise to heed such a lesson.[/quote]
Why not force black coaches to interview more white players because all they really want is a chance?

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=firstdown;642112]edit edit[/quote]
what does that mean?

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=firstdown;642113][B]Why not force black coaches to interview more white players because all they really want is a chance?[/B][/quote]

:lol: Seriously, who doesn't think Synder complied with the Rooney Rule for the GM job? It's important to give minorities a chance and it's not hurting anyone so keep it.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

Wait a minute. So all of you who're against the Rooney rule actually believe since the NFL's inception that Art Shell, Dennis Green, Herm Edwards, Jim Caldwell, Marvin Lewis, Mike Tomlin, Ray Rhodes, and Tony Dungy were the only Black coaches qualified to coach in the NFL? Of course the best man should get the job. However, the NFL has always been reluctant to allow Blacks to assume leadership roles. Denying that fact is being intellectually dishonest. We're talking about a league that tried to make Warren Moon a wide receiver when he arrived in the NFL, despite him winning 5 straight Grey Cups - this occurred not even 25 years ago. The Rooney rule doesn't stipulate that White coaches won't get interviewed, it stipulates that at least one Black guy will be interviewed. So out of the 3 or 4 candidates that get interviewed for a specific job, the owners are required to ensure that at least one of them are Black. Big friggin deal.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=warriorzpath;642114]what does that mean?[/quote]
The point I tried to make was not very good so I just put in Edit Edit to erase it.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;642118]Wait a minute. [SIZE=4]So all of you who're against the Rooney rule actually believe since the NFL's inception that Art Shell, Dennis Green, Herm Edwards, Jim Caldwell, Marvin Lewis, Mike Tomlin, Ray Rhodes, and Tony Dungy were the only Black coaches qualified to coach in the NFL? [/SIZE]Of course the best man should get the job. However, [SIZE=4]the NFL has always been reluctant to allow Blacks to assume leadership roles.[/SIZE] Denying that fact is being intellectually dishonest. We're talking about a league that tried to make Warren Moon a wide receiver when he arrived in the NFL, despite him winning 5 straight Grey Cups - this occurred not even 25 years ago. The Rooney rule doesn't stipulate that White coaches won't get interviewed, it stipulates that at least one Black guy will be interviewed. So out of the 3 or 4 candidates that get interviewed for a specific job, the owners are required to ensure that at least one of them are Black. Big friggin deal.[/quote]
You could also list all the white coaches and ask the same question and get the same answer. I would add that I think those coaches you listed would have made it to the top with or without the rodney rule.

The second thing I made bold. It would be fair to say that the NFL in the past was reluctant to allow Blacks to assume a leadership role. That could be said for just about any major corporation years back but in todays world that is just not reality and more. Last time I looked the most powerful man in the world was black.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=firstdown;642126]You could also list all the white coaches and ask the same question and get the same answer.[/quote]

I don't understand what you mean here?


[quote]The second thing I made bold. It would be fair to say that the NFL in the past was reluctant to allow Blacks to assume a leadership role. That could be said for just about any major corporation years back but in todays world that is just not reality and more. Last time I looked the most powerful man in the world was black.[/quote]

I agree, institutional Racism no longer exists nor does it adversely affect our society. The SEC is a shinning example that proves that both Black and White coaches have an equal opportunity to coach any where they want. And the only reason there's only one Black coach in the six major bowl conferences - is because there's only been one Black guy qualified for the job. I'm positive institutional racism played no part.

Re: The Rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=dmek25;641985]as much as i hate to admit this, i agree. im friends with a ton of minorities, and they all hate affirmative action, which is what this is loosely based on. lets go with qualifications, not skin pigmentation[/quote]

Affirmative action was definitely necessary at one point in time, when the good old boy network really was the way people went about hiring. However we have moved on since then and I think people really don't care about skin color anymore. The NFL is about winning, and whoever gives you the best chance gets the job. So yeah definitely agree.

Re: The rooney rule is it fair< did the redskins follow the rules
 

[quote=Mattyk72;641923]I don't think it's necessary to ask whether the Skins followed the rules because that has been a non-issue from the start. The commish is satisfied they did, so let's move on.[/quote]

I agree Matty...I mentioned the same thing in another thread that wasn't appropiate for it, but mentioned it nontheless. If the Commish is satisfied that's all that matters.