Forcefeeding
 

Gibb's is forcefeeding Brunell on this team, why? I will give you 43 million reason's why, it was one of his first moves as GM and it is an absolute blunder, to not only give him 43 mil but give up a pick to get him when he was going to be released, I said it the day the rumor's started swirling around about us getting Brunell, well for all those who thought Gibb's new what he was doing with this trade, I told you so!

I also said at the time that Ramsey now is better than Brunell, and once he has the expierence he will be better than Brunell ever could have hoped to be, and it's only a matter of time before I am writing I told you so! But until Gibb's decides to swallow his pride and make the switch, we will continue to lose, Brunell will not get better.

On a lighter note I am on the verge of taking Gardner out of my dog house, he is finally looking like he may fullfill the potential that we all new he had, I have to give credit where credit is do, he's done a good job, and he throw's a much better ball than Brunell, how bout the best deep pass of the day came on the 1 and only throw by a WR and he almost completed it, [ it looked like the DB hooked our WR a little on that one as well] Brunell didn't come that close with a semi deep ball all day.

I am going to cut portis slack until Brunell is out of there, it has to be pretty tough running when you can't spread the D because they don't respect anything deep, they are just flooding our running lanes with defender's knowing brunell can't drive the ball down field, so what if they give up a short pass here or there, Brunell will stumble before he crosses mid field.

I saw the highlight of the offsides by Thrash he went in motion then kind of stopped and faced the line I do believe you can face the line so long as you don't go forward, I also thought you don't have to come to a complete stop either, tough call I would really have to look at it more closely, regardless we shouldn't have been in that situation to begin with, BRUNELL YOU ARE A SHAM AS QB, AND IF YOU HAD ANY HONOR AT ALL YOU WOULD GIVE BACK YOUR SIGNING BONUS AND RETIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Defense under the circumstances OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not buying into the theory that Gibbs is playing Brunell based entirely on the amount of his contract. I don't like that Brunell is still in there, but I don't agree with your opinion as to why he's still in there.

[QUOTE=cpayne5]I'm not buying into the theory that Gibbs is playing Brunell based entirely on the amount of his contract. I don't like that Brunell is still in there, but I don't agree with your opinion as to why he's still in there.[/QUOTE]


Well he's certainly not basing it on his performance. let's see his QB rating this week was 60. Not sure if that is up or down from the chicago game, which that in itself pretty much sums it up.

[QUOTE=offiss]Well he's certainly not basing it on his performance. let's see his QB rating this week was 60. Not sure if that is up or down from the chicago game, which that in itself pretty much sums it up.[/QUOTE]
I agree that Brunell has played horribly. But we do not know 100% of what Gibbs and Co are thinking, so how can we jump to conclusions as to why Brunell is still in? I think that its pretty insulting to Gibbs that you would suggest he's that ignorant, stubborn ,shallow, or whatever it is you're trying to say.

[QUOTE=offiss]Gibb's is forcefeeding Brunell on this team, why? I will give you 43 million reason's why, it was one of his first moves as GM and it is an absolute blunder, to not only give him 43 mil but give up a pick to get him when he was going to be released, I said it the day the rumor's started swirling around about us getting Brunell, well for all those who thought Gibb's new what he was doing with this trade, I told you so![/QUOTE]

if you think Gibbs would put pride or money in front of wins and give Brunell the ball just cuz he was his choice at expense of the team, you are just dead wrong.


[QUOTE=offiss]I am going to cut portis slack until Brunell is out of there, it has to be pretty tough running when you can't spread the D because they don't respect anything deep, they are just flooding our running lanes with defender's knowing brunell can't drive the ball down field, so what if they give up a short pass here or there, Brunell will stumble before he crosses mid field.[/QUOTE]

slack?? anyone who's dissed Portis this year is nuts. Portis has been the ONLY guy on our offense this whole year, not to mention the most talented on that side of the ball. by far. he was being used completely wrong at first, but he gave it his all, and once Gibbs learned how to use him, the fumbles stopped and the yardage came. that guy NEVER quits, and is always squirming for that yard way after the OLine, Brunell, AND the WRs have given up on the play. i noticed Gibbs held back on the pitchouts this game, too bad, i saw that his longest gain was on one of the rare times they called it.

like i said in another post, only Gibbs spends the week seeing both these QBs play under the pressure of an angry blitzing defense (ours). what did YOU do this week?

I've slowly been converted into one of the fans calling for Ramsey to start, but I've also been thinking that with how badly Brunnel has played and Gibbs legally doing whatever it takes to win, why is Gibbs so hesitant to put Ramsey in there? I mean Brunnel can't play much worse(knock on wood) and Gibbs knows a thing or 2 about qbs but yet it doesn't even seem like an option to Gibbs to have Ramsey playing and that's pretty frightening.

[QUOTE=cpayne5]I'm not buying into the theory that Gibbs is playing Brunell based entirely on the amount of his contract. I don't like that Brunell is still in there, but I don't agree with your opinion as to why he's still in there.[/QUOTE]
I don't think he's playing him just because of his contract either.

If that's the case we're in for a rough 5 years.

It's not like Ramsey was playing lights out in camp and Gibbs gave the job to Brunell anyway. If that happened this argument might hold some water.

[QUOTE=illdefined]like i said in another post, only Gibbs spends the week seeing both these QBs play under the pressure of an angry blitzing defense (ours). what did YOU do this week?[/QUOTE]
LOL yeah that pretty much sums up how I feel.

We can sit here and second guess Gibbs all we want, fact is he's the man who brought this team 3 trophies, he must have some clue as to what he's doing.

[QUOTE=illdefined]if you think Gibbs would put pride or money in front of wins and give Brunell the ball just cuz he was his choice at expense of the team, you are just dead wrong.




[QUOTE]slack?? anyone who's dissed Portis this year is nuts. Portis has been the ONLY guy on our offense this whole year[/QUOTE], not to mention the most talented on that side of the ball. by far. he was being used completely wrong at first, but he gave it his all, and once Gibbs learned how to use him, the fumbles stopped and the yardage came. that guy NEVER quits, and is always squirming for that yard way after the OLine, Brunell, AND the WRs have given up on the play. i noticed Gibbs held back on the pitchouts this game, too bad, i saw that his longest gain was on one of the rare times they called it.[/QUOTE]


Correct me if I am wrong here Portis has 2 100yd games? Gardner has been our best offensive player this year.

Im dead wrong AAAAA, so tell me what has Brunell done to earn the loyalty he is recieving right now? Any other QB for any other team would be on the bench, but Brunell is still playing, and all the NFL experts no it! Gibb's made a pre-determained decision on the QB's without really taking a close look at Ramsey, he assumed that Brunell because of his previous numbers would thrive under his guidance, well we are seeing why Coughlin wanted to trade him, he knew he couldn't win with him, he was a kaotic QB who ran around and made play's, he is not a passer which you have to be to play for Gibb's, so keep writing because when ramsey get's his chance to play I will season them with salt and post them so you may eat them.

Rest assured I AM DEAD ON!!!!!

[QUOTE]QUOTE]slack?? anyone who's dissed Portis this year is nuts. Portis has been the ONLY guy on our offense this whole year[/QUOTE]

Maybe that explain's our 2-5 record? :tongue

[QUOTE=offiss]Correct me if I am wrong here Portis has 2 100yd games? Gardner has been our best offensive player this year.

Im dead wrong AAAAA, so tell me what has Brunell done to earn the loyalty he is recieving right now? Any other QB for any other team would be on the bench, but Brunell is still playing, and all the NFL experts no it! Gibb's made a pre-determained decision on the QB's without really taking a close look at Ramsey, he assumed that Brunell because of his previous numbers would thrive under his guidance, well we are seeing why Coughlin wanted to trade him, he knew he couldn't win with him, he was a kaotic QB who ran around and made play's, he is not a passer which you have to be to play for Gibb's, so keep writing because when ramsey get's his chance to play I will season them with salt and post them so you may eat them.

Rest assured I AM DEAD ON!!!!!

Maybe that explain's our 2-5 record? :tongue[/QUOTE]

sure thing offiss, and PRESEASON didn't happen. what happened to Ramsey then?? have you seen what he's like at practice?

oh and Gardner's 'awesome' play this year is just a liiiittle bit determined by the play of your boy uh...BRUNELL

oh and just because i said Portis is the most talented player on an 11 man offense we should have a record of 7-0 and seven 100 yd games??

:nono:

but at least teams have to respect the fact that ramsey can throw the ball more than 15 yards...did u see the hail mary at the end of the 2nd? it went to the 10!!! and we were past midfield...

hell yeah Ramsey has a gun and i want to see it with this offense, but he's got cement shoes under pressure (which we cant stop) and is slow to read defenses and throws picks. cant deny it. while i think at this point in the season its worth a try, and have him progress, Gibbs is playing Brunell cuz he thinks he gives us the best chance to win NOW and nothing else.

but i mean teams can load the box cuz they dont respect the deep ball, which hurts our running game a lot..

and that's exactly how they beat Ramsey last year. the most blitzed rookie ever. and this year's "max protection" hasn't been where it needs to be all season, THAT'S why Brunell is in there.

[QUOTE=illdefined]sure thing offiss, and PRESEASON didn't happen. what happened to Ramsey then?? have you seen what he's like at practice?

oh and Gardner's 'awesome' play this year is just a liiiittle bit determined by the play of your boy uh...BRUNELL

oh and just because i said Portis is the most talented player on an 11 man offense we should have a record of 7-0 and seven 100 yd games??

:nono:[/QUOTE]


What on earth did Brunell do in the pre-season that remotly said this guy is the good's, he's a veteran QB playing against scrub's and didn't look any better than Ramsey other than 1 TD to McCant's that's it, the starting job apparently from what we knew was still up for grab's 4 games into the pre-season, and don't think that the deck wasen't stacked in Brunell's favor as far as matchup's either, he stunk in the pre season he was just anointed starter ahead of Ramsey a young and still inexpierenced QB, most of this board agreed Ramsey would have had to out play Brunell big time to start.

As far as practice goes I imagine he's doing better there, I heard Jeff George was a pretty good practice player.

As far as Portis goes, YOU SAID that Portis is the only guy on our offense this year, meaning he's our entire offense, then you said he is also our most talented player, so I was correct in what I read, you were incorrect in understanding what you wrote.

You do have a point though about Brunell contributing to Gardner's success, if it wasen't for his eratic passing Gardner wouldn't have had the opportunity to make oh about 5 or 6 catches this year that probably most NFL reciever's would be lucky to catch 1, that is why he is our MVP on offense right now, Now if Portis is not more talented than Gardner I would hate to be the one who has to pay Gardner next year, or Portis for the remainder of his contract, you see talent and production are 2 totally different scenerio's.

It's only a matter of time rest assured there will be grumbling's behind the seen's from player's about the horrific play of Brunell, and Gibb's will have no choice but to play Ramsey, IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME!

It's time for Ramsey.

Portis especially in this game was kind of hamstrung by the fact we had a 17-0 deficit in the first half. Portis did have 70 yeards rushing but because we were so far behind so quickly our running game never got started and Betts never got a carry.

[QUOTE=offiss]What on earth did Brunell do in the pre-season that remotly said this guy is the good's, he's a veteran QB playing against scrub's and didn't look any better than Ramsey other than 1 TD to McCant's that's it, the starting job apparently from what we knew was still up for grab's 4 games into the pre-season, and don't think that the deck wasen't stacked in Brunell's favor as far as matchup's either, he stunk in the pre season he was just anointed starter ahead of Ramsey a young and still inexpierenced QB, most of this board agreed Ramsey would have had to out play Brunell big time to start.[/QUOTE]

point is, Ramsey didn't outplay Brunell. Gibbs did take a serious look.

[QUOTE=offiss]As far as Portis goes, YOU SAID that Portis is the only guy on our offense this year, meaning he's our entire offense, then you said he is also our most talented player, so I was correct in what I read, you were incorrect in understanding what you wrote.

You do have a point though about Brunell contributing to Gardner's success, if it wasen't for his eratic passing Gardner wouldn't have had the opportunity to make oh about 5 or 6 catches this year that probably most NFL reciever's would be lucky to catch 1, that is why he is our MVP on offense right now, Now if Portis is not more talented than Gardner I would hate to be the one who has to pay Gardner next year, or Portis for the remainder of his contract, you see talent and production are 2 totally different scenerio's.[/QUOTE]

ANY wide receiver's play is heavily dependent on QB play, whose play is determined by OLine play. YOU started off by saying you were giving Portis 'slack', when in the face of every defense stacking up the line, he's been productive IN SPITE of the Oline and QB play. and i dunno what you're talking about contracts now?

[QUOTE=offiss]It's only a matter of time rest assured there will be grumbling's behind the seen's from player's about the horrific play of Brunell, and Gibb's will have no choice but to play Ramsey, IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME![/QUOTE]

of COURSE it's a matter of time Ramsey will play, Ramsey is our QB of the future, as said by Gibbs himself. but he will only good be after he's learned a couple more things on the field, and our oLine improves.

[QUOTE=JWsleep]It's time for Ramsey.[/QUOTE]


It's been time........

[QUOTE=illdefined]point is, Ramsey didn't outplay Brunell. Gibbs did take a serious look.



ANY wide receiver's play is heavily dependent on QB play, whose play is determined by OLine play. YOU started off by saying you were giving Portis 'slack', when in the face of every defense stacking up the line, he's been productive IN SPITE of the Oline and QB play. and i dunno what you're talking about contracts now?



of COURSE it's a matter of time Ramsey will play, Ramsey is our QB of the future, as said by Gibbs himself. but he will only good be after he's learned a couple more things on the field, and our oLine improves.[/QUOTE]


I was talking about contract's in a comparative fashion, because you essentially said that because Portis is our most talented player that he is our most productive player which is just not true, we all know Portis is our most talented player, but Gardner has outplayed him, if Gardner was a more talented player he would be impossible to sign because we would have to pay him like Portis, this wasen't a debate over who has more talent, it was a debate over who has been more productive, I never thought I would say it but I don't see any way we could vote for anyone on offense MVP right now other than Gardner, and I think it's hand's down.

And no I wouldn't consider Portis productive right now, if you measure production on average you will find he is below average, and if you measure production by contract then he's a bust right now, let's face it you said a lot of a WR's success is due to the QB, well so is the RB's, the sooner we get Brunell out of there the sooner player's will start filling their potential.

There are to many on this board who want to hold Ramsey to a higher accountability than Brunell, that's just not fair, Brunell was the guy brought here to step right in and be productive because of his experience, and here we are grooming a 34 year old over the hill QB with a lot of recent injury problem's, many want to bring up rookies like B. Roth and compare Ramsey to him, well how bout comparing a seasoned veteran to BR? It's obvious Brunell isn't capable of outplaying a rookie! Brunell is obviously not who Gibb's felt he would be. peace out!

I agree Ramsey is not the way to go neither is Hasselback . First off the offensive line sucks, that is the problem...............

[QUOTE=offiss]I was talking about contract's in a comparative fashion, because you essentially said that because Portis is our most talented player that he is our most productive player which is just not true, we all know Portis is our most talented player, but Gardner has outplayed him, if Gardner was a more talented player he would be impossible to sign because we would have to pay him like Portis, this wasen't a debate over who has more talent, it was a debate over who has been more productive, I never thought I would say it but I don't see any way we could vote for anyone on offense MVP right now other than Gardner, and I think it's hand's down.

And no I wouldn't consider Portis productive right now, if you measure production on average you will find he is below average, and if you measure production by contract then he's a bust right now, let's face it you said a lot of a WR's success is due to the QB, well so is the RB's, the sooner we get Brunell out of there the sooner player's will start filling their potential.

There are to many on this board who want to hold Ramsey to a higher accountability than Brunell, that's just not fair, Brunell was the guy brought here to step right in and be productive because of his experience, and here we are grooming a 34 year old over the hill QB with a lot of recent injury problem's, many want to bring up rookies like B. Roth and compare Ramsey to him, well how bout comparing a seasoned veteran to BR? It's obvious Brunell isn't capable of outplaying a rookie! Brunell is obviously not who Gibb's felt he would be. peace out![/QUOTE]

uh, our whole offense is way below average. Portis has the majority of our offensive yards, and thats in spite of every defense stacking the line, something Gardner benefits greatly from. stop rationalizing. as bad as our offense is, the run has set up the pass by far. no one is doubling Gardner. when they stack the line, they are essentially tripling Portis. he's done the most with the least help, not even a FB to lead block for him, and his presence has done the most for this offense. he just can't do it alone. even one-dimensional teams like Denver and Minnesota, have a great oLine and passer, some other element to the mix. we have neither.

Yep!
 

[QUOTE=Big C]but at least teams have to respect the fact that ramsey can throw the ball more than 15 yards...[/QUOTE]

Yep! Did you see the Packer defense repeatedly line up EVERYONE (safeties included) within 10 yards from the line of scrimmage?

[QUOTE=Big C]...did u see the hail mary at the end of the 2nd? it went to the 10!!! and we were past midfield...[/QUOTE]

That was too funny! Even if we had caught it we wouldn't have scored. Daah!

But we all have faith. Faith that Gibbs will turn it around - which will be the moment he benches Brunell. Isn't that how he turned it around before? By going to Rypien and Williams and when they were back ups?

[QUOTE=illdefined]uh, our whole offense is way below average. Portis has the majority of our offensive yards, and thats in spite of every defense stacking the line, something Gardner benefits greatly from. stop rationalizing. as bad as our offense is, the run has set up the pass by far. no one is doubling Gardner. when they stack the line, they are essentially tripling Portis. he's done the most with the least help, not even a FB to lead block for him, and his presence has done the most for this offense. he just can't do it alone. even one-dimensional teams like Denver and Minnesota, have a great oLine and passer, some other element to the mix. we have neither.[/QUOTE]


There is absolutly no rational to your statement.

1- you have stated that the wr's benefit from the QB

2- you have stated that the QB stink's [regardless of why]

3- you have stated that Portis isn't productive because Brunell can't throw

4- you have stated that Portis is opening the passing game

5- then you state we have neither a passing game or a running game

6- then you stated that the running game BY FAR has set up the passing game even though we have neither

Yet you refuse to give Gardner credit for having more of an impact on the games than Portis.

So let me sum this up as I see it,

Portis is the team's MVP right now even though we have no running game

Portis is responsible for Gardner's success even though we have no running game.


Gardner should thank Portis for not being able to run, and Brunell for not being able to throw, for the success he has had so far? :stop:

everyone seems to be set on the fact that ramsey will throw a lot of picks, BUT, brunell has more TOs than TDs, and has been giving up over 1.5 TOs a game compared to 1 TD/game... ramsey did much better in what everyone says was a crappier offense, so i reall don't see this as an even remotely valid arguement...

[QUOTE=That Guy]everyone seems to be set on the fact that ramsey will throw a lot of picks, BUT, brunell has more TOs than TDs, and has been giving up over 1.5 TOs a game compared to 1 TD/game... ramsey did much better in what everyone says was a crappier offense, so i reall don't see this as an even remotely valid arguement...[/QUOTE]


I just don't understand the bias against Ramsey, he went from a future pro bowler last year, to a arena football reject in 1 offseason, absolutly ridiculous.


I saw Brunell is saying the offense made strides yesterday, the only stride the offense made was that Brunell is now 1 step closer to the bench!

believe or not we do have a running game guys ;) and its above average even though he's not putting up 100 rushing yards every single game...

can we please fact check before saying ridiculous things?

and portis has had a far bigger impact than gardner... gardner is a good WR, but part of one of the worst passing attacks in the entire league right now, and a passing attack that no one respects... no way that deserves an MVP... portis has been throwing blocks, catching passes and running through stacked boxes with and without help.. and i don't know wtf you're talking about as far as production... gardner has 389 yards and one incomplete pass... portis has 803 yards...

[QUOTE=That Guy]believe or not we do have a running game guys ;) and its above average even though he's not putting up 100 rushing yards every single game...

can we please fact check before saying ridiculous things?

and portis has had a far bigger impact than gardner... gardner is a good WR, but part of one of the worst passing attacks in the entire league right now, and a passing attack that no one respects... no way that deserves an MVP... portis has been throwing blocks, catching passes and running through stacked boxes with and without help.. and i don't know wtf you're talking about as far as production... gardner has 389 yards and one incomplete pass... portis has 803 yards...[/QUOTE]

Who touches the ball more? Who has to rely on an incompetent QB to get him the ball, I want to know what Portis has done thus far that any other RB couldn't have done? Gardner comparativly as a WR has done far more than Portis to impact games, unless you want to count Portis's fumbles, 5td's for Gardner 2 for Portis, Gardner has made all the big play's for us this year which isn't saying much but it's been better than Portis, I don't want to hear that Potis is a warrior because he keep's running into a stacked line, he isn't getting through them, any back can do that, he's had 2 100yd games out of 7, he has 2 rushing TD's worst in the NFL amoung full time starters, bottom line who has been the go to guy when the game is on the line? Gardner, he almost single handily beat dallas, and he almost did it again yesterday, you can talk about talent all you want, Gardner is the one producing, and he is up against just as much of a stacked deck as Portis, Portis has no where to run, Gardner has no one to throw him the ball, and yet he's managed to outplay Portis, what happened to all the Barry Sander's comparison's I was hearing a few week's ago, when did Sander's ever need blocking, why can't Portis make something out of nothing? Gardner has made catches when they weren't there, catches that most reciever's only dream of catching, If Portis is everything everyone say's he is, he should be doing far better than he's doing now, I like Portis but right now regardless of the reason he has not impacted games like Gardner has, and I was Gardner's biggest detracter.

I guess Gardner doesn't block, and if Portis is blocking so well how come so many here keep saying Brunell protection is below average?

[QUOTE=offiss]There is absolutly no rational to your statement.

Yet you refuse to give Gardner credit for having more of an impact on the games than Portis.

So let me sum this up as I see it,

Portis is the team's MVP right now even though we have no running game

Portis is responsible for Gardner's success even though we have no running game.


Gardner should thank Portis for not being able to run, and Brunell for not being able to throw, for the success he has had so far? [/QUOTE]

offiss cut it out, you know precisely what i'm saying. we have a limited OFFENSE. passing game AND running game. but of the two, the running game has been more productive AND is responsible for the little pass attack we DO have. no one respects Brunell, therefore, they don't respect Gardner. if you don't understand that relationship then i'll stop arguing any further.

what little offense we DO have, is because of Portis. and EVERY team we've played so far has played to stop him by crowding the line. they'll either get to Portis or Brunell, cuz NOBODY is worried about what happens downfield. don't believe me? check our 3rd down stats mmk?

talk about not making sense, you claim Gardner is offensive MVP but are calling for the head of the guy who throws him the ball!

Portis has the most offensive yards IN SPITE of Brunell (and consequentially Gardner). Gardner has what he has BECAUSE of Brunell AND Portis. ya dig

[QUOTE=offiss]Who touches the ball more? Who has to rely on an incompetent QB to get him the ball, I want to know what Portis has done thus far that any other RB couldn't have done? Gardner comparativly as a WR has done far more than Portis to impact games, unless you want to count Portis's fumbles, 5td's for Gardner 2 for Portis, Gardner has made all the big play's for us this year which isn't saying much but it's been better than Portis, I don't want to hear that Potis is a warrior because he keep's running into a stacked line, he isn't getting through them, any back can do that, he's had 2 100yd games out of 7, he has 2 rushing TD's worst in the NFL amoung full time starters, bottom line who has been the go to guy when the game is on the line? Gardner, he almost single handily beat dallas, and he almost did it again yesterday, you can talk about talent all you want, Gardner is the one producing, and he is up against just as much of a stacked deck as Portis, Portis has no where to run, Gardner has no one to throw him the ball, and yet he's managed to outplay Portis, what happened to all the Barry Sander's comparison's I was hearing a few week's ago, when did Sander's ever need blocking, why can't Portis make something out of nothing? Gardner has made catches when they weren't there, catches that most reciever's only dream of catching, If Portis is everything everyone say's he is, he should be doing far better than he's doing now, I like Portis but right now regardless of the reason he has not impacted games like Gardner has, and I was Gardner's biggest detracter.

I guess Gardner doesn't block, and if Portis is blocking so well how come so many here keep saying Brunell protection is below average?[/QUOTE]

are you kidding?? PORTIS touches the ball way more! how many catches does Gardner get a game? how many carries does Portis get?? ANYTHING Gardner gets is because Portis (or the defense) got him close enough to the end zone. Gardner is sooo good he makes Brunell's bad passes good?? if so, then THAT MAKES BRUNELL GOOD TOO. Portis has to suffer an incompetent QB AND OLINE. he's made tons of yards that aren't there, by HIMSELF .sorry offiss, Gardner cannot throw the ball to himself, not even Moss can do that.

and now you're judging Portis to BARRY SANDERS?? thats what he has to be to be better than Gardner??