Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

How does our 3rd stringer compare to the rookie class comming in? Could Colt compete with JC for the starting QB position under Shannahan? Why/ Why not? As we are discussing the possibility to draft another QB in the first round, what is the possibility of us coaching up what we currently have in our stables? People who know about this draft class and can compare them to Colt please speak up, I'd like to understand what makes these guys better to run the redskins offense vs. Brennan?

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

I've felt all along that Colt should be given the same chance as any QB coming out of college.

The 2008 preseason was no fluke. Last year he was battling a bad hip injury all year....and we know the surgery was season ending....i always felt like Colt could have been put in the game that time Jason was benched....but Zorn didn't have the balls to stick to his decision...

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

I would love to see what he can do in a real game.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

I think you will have your answers in late April 2010.

Mike Shanahan will have had the time to watch Colt Brennan on film by then and will have talked to Brennan and will have seen Brennan in his rehabbing mode. If after all of that, Shanahan takes a QB at #4 - - I don't care which one he takes - - or if he trades that #4 pick and uses his first pick in the draft on a QB no matter where it is, then he will have concluded that Colt Brennan is not going to be his QB here in Washington.

Personally, I think Colt Brennan is the latter-day incarnation of Babe Laufenberg. But I am willing to defer to Messr. Shanahan on this one...

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

Colt deserves the same chance that Jason Campbell gets with Shanahan and whoever the other QB is that comes in here. Everyone deserves a chance before we give up on whoever.

And by a chance, Colt should be inserted into the starting lineup, to see what he does with starters and not 2nd/3rd stringers.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

He showed flashes, but he clearly couldn't hold a candle to the best QB on the roster last year, Todd Collins.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;663470]I've felt all along that Colt should be given the same chance as any QB coming out of college.

The 2008 preseason was no fluke. Last year he was battling a bad hip injury all year....and we know the surgery was season ending....[B]i always felt like Colt could have been put in the game that time Jason was benched....but Zorn didn't have the balls to stick to his decision...[/B][/quote]

Colt was on IR last year, meaning he was out for the entire season, he couldn't have played even if he was healthy/wanted to

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

Todd Collins should not be on the team. We need JC, Colt and a later-round rookie OR FA pickup like Sage Rosenfels competing. Campbell will be the starter regardless, but Colt deserves to compete for the #2 spot. Collins is no longer useful without Saunders.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

For some reason very few people like to talk about Colt Brennan anymore. I spoke about him just a week or so ago in another thread and I'm still interested in seeing what the guy can do when given a real opportunity. Zorn was being told what players to play so it soon became obvious Brennan was not going to to have any chance of unseating Jason Campbell as the starting QB even if he hadn't been injured.

I'm anxious to see what he can do with some real coaching and a fair chance. There's no denying his Collegiate credentials are off the charts when it comes to record setting and breaking. I'm hoping we'll get a chance to find out more about Colt Brennan this summer. I'm rather glad Zorn will not be coaching him anymore because I believe he did more harm to Jason Campbell than good by over-coaching him.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

Ahhh, the Cult of Colt lives. All hail Pineapple Jesus.

On a more substantive note, I agree with curmudgeon's take. Shannie will give him a good look and go from there.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

Colt is nothing but Zorn's pet project and will be a back up at best IMO. If Shanahan is going to go with an inexperience QB, he might as well pick up a QB at #4. I'm sure Shanahan will give Colt a look, but I don't think he would gamble starting a late round QB he had no hand in developing.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;663475]I think you will have your answers in late April 2010.

Mike Shanahan will have had the time to watch Colt Brennan on film by then and will have talked to Brennan and will have seen Brennan in his rehabbing mode. If after all of that, Shanahan takes a QB at #4 - - I don't care which one he takes - - or if he trades that #4 pick and uses his first pick in the draft on a QB no matter where it is, then he will have concluded that Colt Brennan is not going to be his QB here in Washington.

Personally, I think Colt Brennan is the latter-day incarnation of Babe Laufenberg. But I am willing to defer to Messr. Shanahan on this one...[/quote]

this is spot on. if we draft a young gun come april, the cult will finally have to lay down their torches and pitchforks. if shanny thinks colt is worth a damn, he will get his shot.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

I'm sure MS has watched some film on CB and we'll find out soon enough what he thinks of him. My guess... CB isn't on the roster in 2010. Sorry PJ5 fans.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

YES!!!! Finally a thread that is talking about this! I'm a huge Colt Fan. Ive posted many times before he has that IT factor. He takes chances. And in order to be successful. You hafta DARE to be great. He trusts his arm, thinks he can make any throw. He has ridiculous accuracy. and moves the pocket very well. John Madden even said, hes mobile in the pocket and moves the pocket. Those are two HUGE qualities that work really well in Shanahan's offense. And with us workin on building a run 1st offense it wont put too much pressure on him. The question wit Brennan coming outta college was that he came from a spread offense. Well he has been practicing under center for the last two years. He needs an opportunity to show what he can do. This would solve SO many other issues. take an OT (or Berry) at #4. OT in 2nd round, then fill rest of draft wit NT, LB, RB! AHHHHHHHHHH! Shanahan read this THREAD! lol

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=PHazard;663513]YES!!!! Finally a thread that is talking about this! I'm a huge Colt Fan. [B]Ive posted many times before he has that IT factor. He takes chances. And in order to be successful. You hafta DARE to be great. He trusts his arm, thinks he can make any throw. He has ridiculous accuracy. and moves the pocket very well.[/B] [/quote]

i dont know how anyone can really have a firm idea of what we have in colt yet. i havent seen nearly enough of him to make a call heads or tails (and this should be laid at the coaching staff's feet - for 2 years now we dont know what we have in a player yet? really?)

i would like to see him [B]start[/B] a pre-season game. for teams with qb situation like ours, whats the point in starting a JC or garrard or edwards or smith all 4 preseason games . . .its not like 1 half of PS football is going to be that missing one half that effected the starters ability to gel.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

I could see Colt, if he were to be cut here, in Arizona, he reminds me a little bit of Kurt Warner, thats why I could see that happening. But lets give him a shot here with the first teamers before we throw him away/give up on him so soon.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

I would give Colt Brennan a chance over Jason Campbell . Jason Campbell is a loser but if we choose to trade back or pick up an LT with our 4th pick than I would give Brennan a chance. Can't let go off a guy without giving him a chance.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=redskins202;663531]I would give Colt Brennan a chance over Jason Campbell . Jason Campbell is a loser but if we choose to trade back or pick up an LT with our 4th pick than I would give Brennan a chance. Can't let go off a guy without giving him a chance.[/quote]

Campbell is a "loser" based on what? If we had Colt or Collins in his place last season, they'd be in wheelchairs right now and we'd be picking #1 or #2 after our one-win season, only beating the Rams. Campbell did a lot with nothing to work with...no line and no running game. He's the least of our problems.

I do agree about giving him a chance in camp, which means...lose Collins.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

The Culters are always good for a laugh.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Mattyk;663541]The Culters are always good for a laugh.[/quote]

Yep.


Since he was drafted, I've called him our "backup of the future". I still think that could be his long-term role for us (Jim Sorgi role) but won't start, or at least do much as a starter if it somehow happens.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

Bradford reminds me of Brennan. He only played out of shotgun in spread formations. The stigma about the spread qb would seem to be fading. My vote is Colt. He's held the clipboard 2 years now and he might be ready. Can you imagine what we would have to pay Bradford?

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

How does Colt compare to Bradford? McCoy? Clausen? He also has 2 years of seasoning in the NFL. Does that put him above a rookie?

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Buster;663539][B]Campbell is a "loser" based on what? [/B]If we had Colt or Collins in his place last season, they'd be in wheelchairs right now and we'd be picking #1 or #2 after our one-win season, only beating the Rams. Campbell did a lot with nothing to work with...no line and no running game. He's the least of our problems.

I do agree about giving him a chance in camp, which means...lose Collins.[/quote]

Based on the fact that he hasn't taken us to the playoffs, isn't a good QB, and started 16 games for us last year and only won 4 of them.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Buster;663539][B]Campbell is a "loser" based on what?[/B] If we had Colt or Collins in his place last season, they'd be in wheelchairs right now and we'd be picking #1 or #2 after our one-win season, only beating the Rams. Campbell did a lot with nothing to work with...no line and no running game. He's the least of our problems.

I do agree about giving him a chance in camp, [B]which means...lose Collins[/B].[/quote]

His 19-32 record( sad to say its a record despite his players .)

His stats are overrated. Do you really believe he deserves a 100.QB rating in the MNF eagles game that ended up blowing us out?. OR his 77% COMP rating in week one of the Giants?. See what I'm saying.


And don't bring up all the OL excuse, this kid doesn't read the defense, read the blitz,coverages ,etc. Portis made that loud and clear for a reason. And JC is very inaccurate in big down the field plays and is not a Shanahan type. A shanahan type of QB is a Jay Cutler or Bret Favre type, un-afraid gunslinngers.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

Stats may be overrated but so is pinning a W/L record on the QB alone. His W/L record is a reflection of the 21 other guys he's been playing with as well.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

I have always liked Brennan and would love if he developed into a solid starting QB for the B&G. However, the knocks on him coming out of college were; inadequate arm strength, lackluster opponents at the Univ of Hawaii, spread offense, immaturity and a less than ideal work ethic. The spread offense concern may have been corrected from his time in the NFL, but alot of that time was lost rehabbing injuries his first two seasons. I beleive his percieved lack of arm strength could be more attributed to poor lower body conditioning and form (would also explain the twice injured hip area). And I hope the immaturity and work ethic concerns are incorrect.

The perceived advantage Bradford has over Brennan is his intangibles, size, and slightly higher arm strength. Same for McCoy, except he and Brennan are of similar size. Clausen is viewed as the most "pre-ready" due to his college system and the Weis factor but, he has immaturity and personality concerns as well.

Brennan, in my opinion, deserves a FAIR shot at the starting QB job. But I would not be suprised if he is jettisoned due durability concerns (injured both of his first two years). The 2010 draft will tell us alot about the FO's opinion of Brennan. (I'm secretly pulling for him. If he can be to the B&G what he was for Hawaii then we could have a great piece at the QB to build around).

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;663563]Based on the fact that he hasn't taken us to the playoffs, isn't a good QB, and started 16 games for us last year and only won 4 of them.[/quote]

He's the reason we won 4 games alright...we were a 1 or 2-win team without him. He put up good stats with no line and was taking a huge beating every week. A team with no offensive line or running game won't make the playoffs with ANYONE at QB. You can't put any (or much) blame about 4-12 on Campbell, he's one of the few players who actually tried in all 16 games and put up respectable numbers despite his team.

The O-line argument is very valid. If you were actually paying attention, you'd see him getting hit before dropping back even 3 steps a lot of the time. He couldn't make good decisions when he didn't have time to do anything. You'd see a center who can't snap the ball into his hands from the shotgun formation. Even when not getting hit, his linemen didn't know how to keep the defenders from batting the ball for INTs and defensive TDs.

Campbell's not our new Jurgenson, Kilmer or Theisman, but he's far better than he gets credit for. He showed a ton of toughness and leadership last season and kept us in most games all by himself. With a 4-12 record, we weren't blown out of games at all. He brought us back on many occasions. We nearly beat the Saints thanks to him and lost thanks to Suisham.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Mattyk;663572]Stats may be overrated but so is pinning a W/L record on the QB alone. His W/L record is a reflection of the 21 other guys he's been playing with.[/quote]

Fair enough. But Jason Candle isn't a winning QB at all and isn't an elite, even with the best everything he's a game manager at best. I don't even want this guy back as our starter till Bradford comes because we will potentially not beat any good teams but struggle with bad ones. When everything works( like it did early 08) he'll put up a 1td and no int's and look OK with a 100 yard rushing RB and the WR's doing pretty good.



His 77% of 10 yards and less throws sickens me. He's obviously afraid to go deep and the OL is an excuse when Collins can hit a 45 yarder twice on the first play in the Giants and Chefs game. He's not the best guy or our answer but he showed he had enough time to throw deep. I think we could have done better with Colt Brennan or Collins, a 4-12 record is absurd.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

Nice mature debate with the namecalling.

That stat that "sickens" you is directly attributable to the lack of an O-line. It's the result of him needing to get rid of the ball within 2-3 seconds after the snap. He's shown he CAN throw deep, but no QB can even attempt deep passes with no time or protection. Anyone who blames JC for that stat doesn't know much about football, or clocks.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Buster;663580]Nice mature debate with the namecalling.[/quote]

I can't respect a guy who got us a horrible season and did horrible against 4 winless teams and gave 2 of them there wins. I can't stand JASON CANDLE!!. Once this Candle is put out will maybe finally find some new hope .

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=redskins202;663578]Fair enough. But Jason Candle isn't a winning QB at all and isn't an elite, even with the best everything he's a game manager at best. I don't even want this guy back as our starter till Bradford comes because we will potentially not beat any good teams but struggle with bad ones. When everything works( [B]like it did early 08[/B]) he'll put up a 1td and no int's and look OK with a 100 yard rushing RB and the WR's doing pretty good.[/quote]

Wow, what a freaking concept, you mean that if you put some talent around a QB and he will do a good job. What are the odds of that happening? :doh:

[quote=redskins202;663578]His 77% of 10 yards and less throws sickens me. He's obviously afraid to go deep and the OL is an excuse when Collins can hit a 45 yarder twice on the first play in the Giants and Chefs game. He's not the best guy or our answer but he showed he had enough time to throw deep. I think we could have done better with Colt Brennan or Collins, a 4-12 record is absurd.[/quote]

In case you haven't noticed, there is a big difference between the play of a backup QB when he comes in relief of a starter and when teams can gameplan against them.

Here's an example from last season. When Matt Ryan fell to injury, Chris Redman came in and played a really good game. The next game that Atlanta played with Redman as the starter, he sucked. Why? Because the opposing team had time to gameplan. Collins has far more experience than Campbell, and that's why he looks good when he comes in quickly to sub in. In the long run, Collins would be dead.

I'm not advocating for Campbell, it is just frustrating to see the simple mindedness of some fans that completely overlooks the big elephant in the room (our offensive line's horrible play) and has the attitude of "if we just get rid of Campbell everything will be ok."

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

I think most of us recognize Campbell isn't quite as awesome and blameproof as some here would say and not nearly the loser that others think. He falls somewhere in between.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

The OL was garbage last year and has been in a steep decline the last 2 seasons. Sorry, but that's fact, not an excuse. I'm not going to bother getting into the whole JC debate. The issue has been beaten to death around here.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=redskins202;663571] A shanahan type of QB is a Jay Cutler or Bret Favre type, un-afraid gunslinngers.[/quote]

That's BS. Shanahan found success with only one quarterback, Elway. That came after he was able to reduce the amount of passes Elway had to attempt (i.e. reverse the gunslinger tendencies), through a strong running game.

I have watched all I need to of CB and Bradford. Both are limp-armed, short, spread offense passers with average release times; who were successful in systems where their receivers were 4-5 yards open. That game doesn't fly in the NFL, which is why Colt is a pine rider and always will be. Deal.

I'm not saying JC is the long-term solution, but he's not the team's worst problem right now and Bradford is nowhere even close to being worth the 4th pick. He isn't worth a first round pick, much less 4th overall.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=redskins202;663571]His 19-32 record( sad to say its a record despite his players .)

His stats are overrated. Do you really believe he deserves a 100.QB rating in the MNF eagles game that ended up blowing us out?. OR his 77% COMP rating in week one of the Giants?. See what I'm saying.


And don't bring up all the OL excuse, this kid doesn't read the defense, read the blitz,coverages ,etc. Portis made that loud and clear for a reason. And JC is very inaccurate in big down the field plays and is not a Shanahan type.[B] A shanahan type of QB is a Jay Cutler or Bret Favre type, un-afraid gunslinngers[/B].[/quote]

So you want a QB that leads the league in INTs like Cutler? And I guess you weren't around when everyone was criticizing Favre and how his "gunslinger" attitude cost them the NO game.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[B][quote][QUOTE=Ruhskins;663587]Wow, what a freaking concept, you mean that if you put some talent around a QB and he will do a good job. What are the odds of that happening? :doh:



In case you haven't noticed, there is a big difference between the play of a backup QB when he comes in relief of a starter and when teams can gameplan against them.[/quote][/B]

No , I'm saying when he had alot he still did average. We won the Lions game because of Moss honestly and Portis.

-We won the Dallas game due to good defense and a overall good game by the Redskins. Best game Jason Candle had.

-We beat the Eagles because of Portis and our defense holding them down and Shawuns FG's that where 100% good. Overall tho Jason Candle did manage the game at best.

-We beat the Browns because of Portis. And the Browns are horrible.

Honestly our 6-2 record was overrated if anything.

[quote]Here's an example from last season. When Matt Ryan fell to injury, Chris Redman came in and played a really good game. The next game that Atlanta played with Redman as the starter, he sucked. Why? Because the opposing team had time to gameplan. [B]Collins has far more experience than Campbell, and that's why he looks good when he comes in quickly to sub in. In the long run, Collins would be dead.[/B][/quote]

Collins knew the playbook but he never started for it. And honestly there was a very good article about how Collins does in training Camp and probably a very smart QB. So he knew the playbook but knowing it doesn't cause you to get big games or accurate throws or accurate TD passes or ETC. You are what you are. I believe the system does mean something but playbook is an excuse if anything. Jay Cutler is a WCO QB but went to the Bears who didn't run it and put up 27 td's 26 int's with no WR's at all but people never credit Cutler for 27 td's and look at his 26 ints. He beat out Bret Favre and a healthy Vikes team legit.



I[quote]'m not advocating for Campbell, it is just frustrating to see the simple mindedness of some fans that completely overlooks the big elephant in the room (our offensive line's horrible play) and has the attitude of[/quote] "if[B] we just get rid of Campbell everything will be ok."[/B][/QUOTE]

We are better without Candle. The OL is bad but when given time he does the same thing. OL does not let you:.

-Throw more accurate passes.
-Throw down the field perfect
- Make u read plays on the defense
-ETC


helps give you time and pick up the blitz better but for the OL to get better the QB has to read the plays. It won't happen all the time but Candle ability to not read any blitzes or coverages on the field made our OL worst than how it should of been. When given time he isn't good.


We had Chris Samuels for 10 years now and drafted him. It was a very good move, we had a very good OL with him about 7 years out of 10 and with any QB we had back there they didn't do anything.


Brunell had his last gas in 05 and he was a good part of a success of our playoff run but if we had a Tom Brady or real franchise QB back there than we probably would have won the SB. Our D was nasty with a good Portis and great Moss .


Todd Collins 07: Mysteriously our OL gets better as we'll as our offense and every thing around us. The D played a bit better( not saying it was cause of Todd) but we did better. The Seahawks just outplayed us and thats how it is in the playoffs. Even with an great OL you'll end up playing great defenses that would make your OL look AVG. Comes down to how good the D is and which QB plays better.


Jason Candle with time can't do anything. I find it very shelfish of him as we'll to try and get traded if we pick up a franchise QB. He isn't a starter for no one.


We can do better without Campbell because we have shown it. since our 6-2 record broke and combining it is a record of 6-42 I think. Something close to that and its unacceptable. Great reason for the 6-2 record was also based on nobody taking Zorn seriously and when they did we seen how it was.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Mc2guy;663590]That's BS. Shanahan found success with only one quarterback, Elway. That came after he was able to reduce the amount of passes Elway had to attempt (i.e. reverse the gunslinger tendencies), through a strong running game.

I have watched all I need to of CB and Bradford. Both are limp-armed, short, spread offense passers with average release times; who were successful in systems where their receivers were 4-5 yards open. That game doesn't fly in the NFL, which is why Colt is a pine rider and always will be. Deal.

I'm not saying JC is the long-term solution, but he's not the team's worst problem right now and Bradford is nowhere even close to being worth the 4th pick. He isn't worth a first round pick, much less 4th overall.[/quote]

Your Bradford analysis is off base. Bradford is 6-4 with well above average release and arm strength. There are questions about his transition to a pro style offense, but he has the physical tools to be an elite NFL QB which is why he will be drafted in the top 10 in April. To toss him in a barrel with Colt Brennan who was barely even drafted is not even close to acurate.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Mc2guy;663590][B]That's BS. Shanahan found success with only one quarterback, Elway.[/B] That came after he was able to reduce the amount of passes Elway had to attempt (i.e. reverse the gunslinger tendencies), through a strong running game.

I have watched all I need to of CB and Bradford. Both are limp-armed, short, spread offense passers with average release times; who were successful in systems where their receivers were 4-5 yards open. That game doesn't fly in the NFL, which is why Colt is a pine rider and always will be. Deal.

I'm not saying JC is the long-term solution, but he's not the team's worst problem right now an[B][QUOTE]d Bradford is nowhere even close to being worth the 4th pick. He isn't worth a first round pick, much less 4th overall[/quote][/B].[/QUOTE]

How is that BS???? isn't a Jay Cutler- Bret Favre type of QB is the type of QB he likes?.



Jake Plummer was one.
Brian Grieseses was sorta kinda one but he was un-afraid of things.
Jay Cutler was one
John Elway was one
-Steve Young (when his days at 49ers as an OC) was one.

How is that BS?. Shanahan favorite QB and fan of is Bret Favre. If Bret Favre was released today he would pick him ip ASAP.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=Ruhskins;663595][B][QUOTE]So you want a QB that leads the league in INTs like Cutler? And I guess you weren't around when everyone was criticizing Favre and how his "gunslinger" attitude cost them the NO game[/quote][/B].[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry did you say Bret Favre cost them the game?. His best weapons all fumbled on him 5 turn overs if anything. How can you say you wouldn't Want Favre who led a very good Vikes team to one game to the SB. Honestly the Saints cheated out the Vikes. Bret Favre had a career year and I would take him over Jason Candle any type of years , even Bret-Jet-Favre .


And Jay Cutler is a pro-bowler who is good and is a INT thrower but he is also a TD machine Thrower.

Both are pro-bowlers. One has a SB.

Jason Candle doesnt have neither or was considered one. And your acting like Candle never cost us the game at all?????he makes us look bad against bad teams. Bring in Favre or Cutler I bet our O would do better no way our O can look as bad as this.

Re: Colt Brennan vs Rookie class
 

[quote=celts32;663603]Your Bradford analysis is off base. Bradford is 6-4 with well above average release and arm strength. There are questions about his transition to a pro style offense, but he has the physical tools to be an elite NFL QB which is why he will be drafted in the top 10 in April. To toss him in a barrel with Colt Brennan who was barely even drafted is not even close to acurate.[/quote]

Agreed. Sam Bradford is a good QB for Shanahan to have even Jimmy Clausen. I liked Colt Brennan but he doesn't have the mechanics in the throwing motion to do good.

Sam Bradford is very accurate and has been compared to almost a Peyton Manning accuracy . Jimmy Clausen has the quickest sharpest throws. Both can be good. Candle is not good.