Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Here's what he had to say about it before he took himself out.

[url=http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack1.html]Plane Crash Suspect's Online Diatribe - February 18, 2010[/url]

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Heard about this guy on my morning drive...there's speculation that he burned his house, jacked an airplane and flew it into the IRS building.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Yup! He had a real beef with big brother.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Where's firstdown?

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=Buster;664485]Where's firstdown?[/quote]

:laughing-

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Heard about this earlier today. He made some good points.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

It took him this long to figure out life isn't fair? Good riddance.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Wow, talk about a guy at the end of his rope. I read through the posting he made... sad. I can relate to the feelings of helplessness regarding representation that cares nothing for the average citizen, but to take it to that level... wow.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Basically how I feel Bleeding

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Read is terroristic-suicide-tirade letter...sounds like he was incapable of managing his finances and wanted to find a scapegoat.

Bill Ross is a very lucky man and I like his capitalist creed.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Pretty crazy. Lets hope hes the only one dead.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=Buster;664485]Where's firstdown?[/quote]

If you read his manifesto you would know it was not me by his spelling and grammer.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

So far it says nobody besides him died. What a failure, you go to take a bunch of people out as you die... WITH A PLANE, and you fail.

LOL at the dead moron

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

You know what's the worst news of all this guys?

We just learned that his wife it's going to get a fine, because they just checked and this guy hadn't reported the plane in witch he crashed to the IRS

hahaha

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;664613]You know what's the worst news of all this guys?

We just learned that his wife it's going to get a fine, because they just checked and this guy hadn't reported the plane in witch he crashed to the IRS

hahaha[/quote]

The FirstDown of Cowboys fans.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Thats what happens when your gov't screws people ... not that I think he wasn't 100 % wrong ... just saying . Do we have to pay our taxes this year ?

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;664626]The FirstDown of Cowboys fans.[/quote]
lol got that right

seems to be more the norm with them though

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

I don't really like entering political debates but this one is a bit intriguing.

Let me be the first to tell you that I don't really feel 100% informed and educated on all political matters which gives more to my listening to these conversations as opposed to entering them.

I do want to gauge some opinions on this personal idea.

I've always felt that most political matters seem to revolve, and are decided, around big businesses and big money contributions. In our modern era, politicians seem to have their campaigns propelled more by large industries and lobby groups than the individual constituent.

To me, this seems to lend more to conflicts of interest from those elected officials. So let me propose a question to you:

Why isn't corruption (bribes/gifting/position abuse) of any kind at a publicly-elected level, high or low, considered an act of treason and thus punishable by the same stiff penalties?

It's basically just as unpatriotic and detrimental to the country to misuse a publicly elected position and it should be considered as treasonous as espionage. What's your opinion on this?...too harsh of a penalty for our elected officials?...maybe it affects the candidates decisions in office for the better/worse?

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

You'd never get anyone to run for office if that were the case, but I think that it should definitely be sanctioned more. I mean what's the point in signing off on a bill and then not voting for it, just to spite an administration, because your farms in your state didn't get their extra truckload of pig shit, or whatever?

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=tryfuhl;664679][B]You'd never get anyone to run for office if that were the case,[/B] but I think that it should definitely be sanctioned more. I mean what's the point in signing off on a bill and then not voting for it, just to spite an administration, because your farms in your state didn't get their extra truckload of pig shit, or whatever?[/quote]

I think there'd still be people running but it wouldn't be smart, rich people who have something to lose. It'd be modest class of people who trust their honesty and nothing to lose.

Perhaps too ideological I suppose : )

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Interesting comment left on [url=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/18/national/main6220956.shtml?tag=topnews]Austin Crash Pilot Called "Easy Going" - CBS News[/url]

[quote]20 years ago I worked as an accounts payable clerk for a now-defunct software company.

I saw enormous amounts of abuse of the independent contractor status of programmers (yes, they like to call themselves software engineers but they are programmers) by managers in that company. Quite often during layoffs they would lay off programmers then managers would hire their buddies back as contractors. Quite often I would issue checks for many thousands of dollars of software programs and hardware that would be given to the contractors then disappear off company premises, never to be seen again. Contractors were given office space, telephones, network connectivity and many other perks. The so-called "independent" contractors ruled the roost, and I also saw the damage it did to regular company morale. The managers got away with it because since none of the business owners, CEO or President could write software themselves, or came from a programmers background, they were afraid to go up against the managers. This was a symptom of weak leadership and in fact the software company failed and got acquired by another software company in 1994 - but it was several years before that company reined in the abuses - and I heard rumors that they still were involved in this sort of thing a decade ago in Santa Monica. (by then I had been gone for years from the company for greener pastures)

This is why the IRS is so tough on the status of contractors in the software industry. Because it is so easy to hide dollar amounts of the tools (computers and software) that these people use to do their work in the general corporate expenses, independent contractors seek out weak managers who are easy to buffalo into giving them things, and software companies are so often funded by venture capitalists who go ballaistic when they see headcount counts rise that it is easier for the manager to use a contractor than try to justify to a VC why you need to hire another warm body. The IRS is right to break up these sweetheart arraingements, as they are tax dodges of the worst order.

I have read this guys writings and they are nothing more than a series of attempting to dodge taxes by playing
the "independent software engineer" game throughout his life. He really had no understanding of how much public funding has supported his industry and the companies that he worked for, and how critical it is for those industries. Even today, 3/4 of the Internet is partly supported by public funding in the form of government tax carveouts for large ISPs and networks, and if the Internet didn't exist, most of this guys software firms that he's worked for wouldn't have existed either.

This is exactly how your typical conservative thinks - they are more than happy to plunge both trotters into the trough and suck up all that government support of their stuff, but when it comes to paying taxes for it they are the first to cut and run.[/quote]

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;664686]I think there'd still be people running but it wouldn't be smart, rich people who have something to lose. It'd be modest class of people who trust their honesty and nothing to lose.

Perhaps too ideological I suppose : )[/quote]
Indeed, and yes, people would still run and perhaps better candidates. Most politicians have business outside of just their "service" and will be swayed though. Could be opening the floodgates to more Palin's

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Guy had serious problems with government issues. Chose a cowardly way to resolve them.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=tryfuhl;664690]Indeed, and yes, people would still run and perhaps better candidates. Most politicians have business outside of just their "service" and will be swayed though. [B]Could be opening the floodgates to more Palin's[/B][/quote]

Ugh that's all we need, more idiots.

Personally I don't want Joe Schmoe running things, nor do I want someone running things who I would want to have a beer with.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=Mattyk;664738]Ugh that's all we need, more idiots.

Personally I don't want Joe Schmoe running things, nor do I want someone running things who I would want to have a beer with.[/quote]

Agreed, but by the same token I don't want industry execs to be the sole voice heard either. It's hard to legislate discipline, restraint and integrity into national offices... That's why I laugh at all of these firebrand types that scream "revolution." You want to revolt, cool, no problem, but you better have a better idea, and in 230+ years, one hasn't come along.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;664791]Agreed, but by the same token I don't want industry execs to be the sole voice heard either. It's hard to legislate discipline, restraint and integrity into national offices... That's why I laugh at all of these firebrand types that scream "revolution." You want to revolt, cool, no problem, but you better have a better idea, and in 230+ years, one hasn't come along.[/quote]

I agree you need to find a happy medium. I just don't understand this concept of dumbed down politicians.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

I think that we need to get younger in the govt, especially Congress. These guys are voting on stuff that they've never seen, used, and may not live to see the outcome of.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=firstdown;664595]If you read his manifesto you would know it was not me by his spelling and [B][I]grammer[/I][/B].[/quote]

Sure, sure. :oink:

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

haha buster

I think firstdown was saying that he has worse spelling/grammar than the guy who wrote it, but not sure

if so, that's bad, because that letter was atrocious

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=Mattyk;664799]I agree you need to find a happy medium. I just don't understand this concept of dumbed down politicians.[/quote]

Well, I think a lot of the "dumbed down" politician and Palinesque backing is a reaction to the "We're smarter than you, so we know what's best for you" attitude that comes from the left at times.

Again, happy medium is, of course, the best. Education and experience come in many forms. Whether it be intellectual patronizing or anti-intellectual arrogance, each is disrespectful and adds to deepening the division.

For example, Palin ain't the sharpest tack in the box. But - clearly - something she says resonates with a large portion of the US populace. Dismissing this group as stupid idiots who cling to guns and bibles does nothing to further discussion. On the other hand, Palin's backers who dismiss the large group of people who oppose her positions as being out of touch with the real America are equally to blame for the division.

Sure there are idiots on both sides of the aisle, but even extremists may be saying [I]something[/I] of value. Some of the divisions are hard to overcome (abortion is murder v. abortion is not murder) but until each side stops being dismissive of the other, actually searches for common ground, and is willing to say, "We may be wrong on this" will anything change.

Rant over.

Anybody got a spare plane?

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

I think that our entire govt comprises the idea of "We're smarter than you, so we know what's best for you" mentality, that's certainly not limited to the left. If you do then you have to come up with "We don't care, we're telling you what's best for you and you'll deal with it" from the right.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=tryfuhl;664848][B]I think that our entire govt comprises the idea of "We're smarter than you, so we know what's best for you" mentality, that's certainly not limited to the left.[/B] If you do then you have to come up with "We don't care, we're telling you what's best for you and you'll deal with it" from the right.[/quote]

True, this isn't something that's only developed over the course of the past year.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;664674]I don't really like entering political debates but this one is a bit intriguing.

Let me be the first to tell you that I don't really feel 100% informed and educated on all political matters which gives more to my listening to these conversations as opposed to entering them.

I do want to gauge some opinions on this personal idea.

I've always felt that most political matters seem to revolve, and are decided, around big businesses and big money contributions. In our modern era, politicians seem to have their campaigns propelled more by large industries and lobby groups than the individual constituent.

To me, this seems to lend more to conflicts of interest from those elected officials. So let me propose a question to you:

Why isn't corruption (bribes/gifting/position abuse) of any kind at a publicly-elected level, high or low, considered an act of treason and thus punishable by the same stiff penalties?

It's basically just as unpatriotic and detrimental to the country to misuse a publicly elected position and it should be considered as treasonous as espionage. What's your opinion on this?...too harsh of a penalty for our elected officials?...maybe it affects the candidates decisions in office for the better/worse?[/quote]

There will ALWAYS be some level of corruption in government, or any place where power is wielded. That much is true, and people will find ways to skirt/minimize their exposure to consequences. Asking politicians to treat corruption harshly requires them to make laws that could effectively be used against them.

A side tangent to this is that we have essentially pushed all corruption to a national/federal level when it comes to the legislative branch of the government. When the Constitution was written senators were elected by their state governments, not the people of their state. That made the corruption for getting into and on the good side of a senator a very local thing. Now, I accept that it had gotten out of control in many states, and so the move to elections may have been necessary. But I think we see now the result of having the whole congress popularly elected. In my opinion, a very good move would be to move back the clock on how senators are seated. Would corruption still exist yes, but it would counterbalance the megacorporations and activist corruption that happens at the Federal level.

I think the Constitution, in it's original form was an amazing document. It missed the boat on one or two obvious issues, but the framework of the government was an immensely well balanced system - balancing between the need for accomplished statesmen who were politically savvy and the need for feet on the ground in for a couple years then back to the real world political savants.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

[quote=Mattyk;664855]True, this isn't something that's only developed over the course of the past year.[/quote]
I really wish that we voted on more of our issues federally. Of course then you still have the people that only heard one point of view, but it's there and people have more of a chance to become educated on it to make an opinion.

I'm really tired of this "let us protect you from yourself" mentality.

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

What an utterly futile gesture by this guy. If his beefs were correct, then he should have worked to change things. But this stunt won't change anything except his status among the living. Oh, and it will require more money to fix the building, which will require more taxes, and...

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Well I was going to post that one other person did die in the attack but when I lloked for a link I saw they found another body which means he killed two other people. Must have been some poor guy coming in to give his last dime to the IRS and the guy gets killed by this nut.
[url=http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/news/nation/20100218_ap_2ndbodyfoundinsidetexasbuildinghitbyplane.html]2nd body found inside Texas building hit by plane | AP | 02/18/2010[/url]

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

I heard 2 bodies last night.. then on a later report I just heard 2 injuries so I didn't know which one was right, or if both were true

Re: Man flies plane into IRS building.
 

Last night the body count was 2 the crazy guy and someone in the building. Today a clean up crew found another body which makes the count 3 (you probably could have figured out the count on your own)LOL.