Lewis or Gibbs?
 

I've been looking at next week's game (yeah, I know) and wondering: Who will win the award for Most Stubborn Coach of the Year? Marv Lewis or Joe Gibbs?

Both have the same records (2-5). Both have pathetic offenses (Wash. is rated 26th in NFL, while Cin. is rated 25th). Both can't seem to make first downs or 3rd down conversions, as both teams are at the bottom end of each category.

Here's the kicker: Both have QBs playing miserably (Carson Palmer with a passer rating of 62.6 (dead last) vs. Mark Brunell with a 69.1 (6th lowest). Both have QBs on the bench that played last year much better than the current starters. And, yet, both are unwilling to bench the starter.

So who is more stubborn?

I really dont think that Lewis is being stubborn with his choice of not benching Palmer. Yes they are one of the worst offenses in the league and there record is 2-5, but also remember that Palmer is still in all reality a 2nd year rookie.

I am sure that last year no one in the Bengals orginization thought that Kitna would have had that kind of year. So they drafted Palmer #1 over all in the draft for a reason, he is to be the future of the Bengals. Also Palmer really hasnt played that horrible this year to compare him to other #1 QB draft picks that flopped. I think that Lewis is doing the right thing by letting Palmer play, if he is to be the future of the team then you cant bench him.

ha! we'll see this game!

I'll lean towards Lewis in the sense that Kinta ran his offense and ran it REALLY well already. Ramsey is still learning the offense, although I am one that wants him in. I'll give it to Marvin though.

Old Man is playing a QB who is past his prime when he has the future playing with himself on the bench. Lewis is forcefeeding Palmer to the NFL and getting the bumps of the NFL out of the way. Old Man is more stubborn...too bad we didn't keep Lewis and make him our HC :Smoker: :drink :vomit-smi

[QUOTE=illdefined]ha! we'll see this game![/QUOTE]

Yes, we get to settle this debate on the field, unless one of the coaches blinks by then.

I have a suspicion that the decision to move on to the "Carson Palmer Era" was at least partially made with a nudge from the owner's box who is writing the checks out to Carson Palmer.

Mike Brown was notorious for not firing coaches in the middle of their contracts in order to avoid paying someone good money not to work for him. I have a sense that at least some of that mentality kicked in after he looked at the books at the4 end of last season.

Absent a major change of fortune this season, my prediction is that we will see Patrick Ramsey start the game against the NY Giants here in DC on the weekend of 5 December. Given the certainty of many of the posters here that Ramsey's absence from the line-up is the ONLY reason that the Skins are not 6-1 (at a minimum) to this point, that will give the Skins a 5-game winning streak to end the season and might just squeeze them into the playoffs where a Super Bowl victory would be assured with Ramsey under center. :doh:

[QUOTE=ZackMills] Lewis is forcefeeding Palmer to the NFL and getting the bumps of the NFL out of the way. Old Man is more stubborn...too bad we didn't keep Lewis and make him our HC :Smoker: :drink :vomit-smi[/QUOTE]


Yeah, the Bengals are having a GREAT year. :doh:

In addition, for everytime you refer to Joe Gibbs as old man, i'm going to refer to you as " Young Dumbass ".

So let me rephrase this ....

Yeah, the Bengals are having a GREAT year, young dumbass.

I'm going to have to vote for Gibbs,I agree with sportscurmudgen,I think that was a front office move in the bengals case,in Gibbs case I am at a loss as to why he's sticking with the worst qb in the league,if Spurrier would have signed Wuerffel to Brunell's contract and stuck with him after playing that bad all hell would have broken loose,the only thing saving Gibbs is his past

I have to say that as coaches these guys have to look at what these guys have been doing and what they think they are on track to do. When you see that a guy is doing poorly, but the fault rests on more than just him, then maybe it's best to let him hang in there. A change in quarterback might be able to provide a slight spark, but not necessarily ignite a fire.

For example, when you look at Brunnel, you probably think to yourself that this guy has terrible stats, he makes terribly unaccurate throws, and that it's time to try fresh new blood so that we can get out of this slump. But first, you have to look at what factors are contributing to this.

In some cases Mark Brunnel has overthrown wide open receivers, but what do we know about if the receivers are running their routes properly (perhaps running a 13 yard cross, instead of a 15 yard cross). In a game, when you have to make fast reads, these things can make a real difference. Especially when Brunnel hasn't been getting that much time as has been the case in recent games. Sometimes he basically has to find the guy and throw off his back foot. If the receivers had run consistently, then he may have made that throw (the yards that the pass looked off may have been where the receiver was supposed to be).

Brunnel may not be making all the plays and it cannot be debated that Mark hasn't been doing a lot of things right, but I think to make him shoulder the blame is kinda wrong. Most people go and they look at Ramsey going out there last year and slinging it, but you have to remember that there were some cases last year when you could see that standing by and watching could have done him a world of good. Ramsey supports and believes in Mark Brunnel...maybe some of us should too.
:httr:

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]Yeah, the Bengals are having a GREAT year. :doh:

In addition, for everytime you refer to Joe Gibbs as old man, i'm going to refer to you as " Young Dumbass ".

So let me rephrase this ....

Yeah, the Bengals are having a GREAT year, young dumbass.[/QUOTE]

Gmanc711,
I couldn't agree with U more about dumbass, by the way he shows no respect, I'm sure he is the type who got his ass kicked alot . :cheeky-sm

SC, :P thinking ramsey could win games against the eagles is a little premature... but brunell has been way way way off target with at least 50% of his throws, so i've been saying its time to see if ramsey can do any better... either we find out that we have a QB or not, and settle whether it really was brunell's fault as well.

at least our D is for real...

Defiently Gibb's, Lewis is building toward's the future and they have a lot invested in this kid Palmer, Didn't Kitna have his chance last year and didn't do a whole lot, you can't draft a QB #1 and sit him on the bench for 2 year's the fastest way to learning in the NFL is to play.

Contrarily Gibb's is sacrificing the future to stick with a QB who is done, Brunell has been hit 1 to many times and can't take it anymore, we are also seeing a QB with no ability to read defenses and make throws from the pocket, why? He made his bones running out of the pocket when protection broke down, and controlled roll out's where he could adlib, he can no longer run so guess what he has no game in the pocket. But we did give him 43mil. does anyone believe if we signed Brunell as a free agent to a reasonable contract that he would still be playing? No way, take a look at McCant's he can't get activated for a game because he can't perform well in practice, and yet he performed well for us last year as well as this past pre-season, we have guy's getting released because they are not performing up to expectation's, and no one and I mean no one has underperformed or down right stunk like Brunell, and yet Gibb's continues to go with him, it's not like he doesn't have a real legitamate option, he does in Ramsey, STUBBORNNESS GOES TO GIBB'S!

kitna had his chance and basically played a pro bowl type year offiss... everyone was pretty surprised when lewis made that call.

[QUOTE]In addition, for everytime you refer to Joe Gibbs as old man, i'm going to refer to you as " Young Dumbass ". [/QUOTE]

Aren't you the clever one. :Smoker: ...Don't show your ignorance. :Smoker:

ZackMills, if all you want to do is annoy people on this board it's working. There are other places you would fit in better namely Extremeskins. All they do is insult each other to the point they forget to talk about football. I think you would fit in just fine there. We here at The Warpath would rather have a civilized discussion about football, but when someone like you comes along things start to change for the worse. Get the hint?

guys, dont feed this troll and he'll go away... just put him on your ignore list and you'll never ever have to hear about him again.

come on, its not that hard ;).

[QUOTE=That Guy]guys, dont feed this troll and he'll go away... just put him on your ignore list and you'll never ever have to hear about him again.

come on, its not that hard ;).[/QUOTE]

How do you do that?

Ya'll don't wanna hear the truth and silence me, ignore me. It's amazing how a guy with a different opinion gets treated like a witch in salem. Unbelievable. :Smoker: :Smoker:

We don't mind your different opinion at all. It's the attitude that surrounds your opinion that no one here likes.

[QUOTE=That Guy]kitna had his chance and basically played a pro bowl type year offiss... everyone was pretty surprised when lewis made that call.[/QUOTE]


Got my wire's crossed I was thinking of Kelly Holcombe, it was late ;)

Still you don't draft a QB #1 to sit the bench you have to much invested in him and he is the future, we are doing the exact same thing with Brunell we have to much invested in him not to play him, difference? The bengal's are going forward, we are going backwards with the QB position, how long do you think it would have taken for Palmer to get on the field last year if Kitna played like Brunell is for us this year? 1 game!

Gibb's is trying to force a square peg through a round hole, Lewis just changed a round peg for what he and the organization believes is a better, younger round peg.

It's time we put in our youngest, and bestest QB, and round peg, sgt. hulka, I mean Patrick Ramsey! :D

[QUOTE=ZackMills]Ya'll don't wanna hear the truth and silence me, ignore me. It's amazing how a guy with a different opinion gets treated like a witch in salem. Unbelievable. :Smoker: :Smoker:[/QUOTE]


There are plently of guys here that share the same opinions as you on some topics. The difference is they actually come up with facts and partake in discussion. They dont make half-assed ignorant comments.

[QUOTE]There are plently of guys here that share the same opinions as you on some topics. The difference is they actually come up with facts and partake in discussion. They dont make half-assed ignorant comments.[/QUOTE]

How so dawg? :Smoker: . I don't like Gibbs, yet just because it's him, ya'll hate me. Was everyone behind Spurrier or Marty? No, there weren't and they questioned him. I dont think Old Man has it anymore, so sue me for speaking my opinion.

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]There are plently of guys here that share the same opinions as you on some topics. The difference is they actually come up with [b]facts and partake in discussion[/b]. They dont make [b]half-assed ignorant comments[/b].[/QUOTE]

'he sucks' 'don't like him' 'doesn't have it' 'spurrier's better' = half assed comments. thats not discussion b.

[QUOTE=ZackMills]How so dawg? :Smoker: . I don't like Gibbs, yet just because it's him, ya'll hate me. Was everyone behind Spurrier or Marty? No, there weren't and they questioned him. I dont think Old Man has it anymore, so sue me for speaking my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Put more facts and less attitude into your opinion and we'll all gladly listen and respond. You've set yourself up for the kind of treatment you are now receiving.

[QUOTE]Put more facts and less attitude into your opinion and we'll all gladly listen and respond. You've set yourself up for the kind of treatment you are now receiving.[/QUOTE]

I agree I should put more facts into my posts, but in all honestly, I feel as if you guys just read my opinion, were offended, then starting flaming me due to a different attitude. :Smoker:

[QUOTE=ZackMills]I agree I should put more facts into my posts, but in all honestly, I feel as if you guys just read my opinion, were offended, then starting flaming me due to a different attitude. :Smoker:[/QUOTE]
No, we like others people's input. You wouldn't get flamed at all if you simply stated your opinion and some facts to back it up. When you come in with offensive statements like 'old man Gibbs', you should expect people to get defensive and for a flame war to get going.

zach you set yourself up for this

Reading back on your posts you always have negative things to say, and you don't back them up with much at all. It's fine if you disagree about something, it wouldn't be the first time on this board someone has a different opinion, but at least put some thought and rationale behind your post. Saying somebody sucks and leaving it at that is going to open you up for this.

Simply put, you'll get back what you put in to this forum.

Most of us even get along with a Cowboys' [URL=http://www.thewarpath.net/member.php?u=399]fan[/URL] that comes around every so often. He's a nice guy. He doesn't come in here trying to stir up trouble.

[QUOTE=cpayne5]Most of us even get along with a Cowboys' [url="http://www.thewarpath.net/member.php?u=399"]fan[/url] that comes around every so often. He's a nice guy. He doesn't come in here trying to stir up trouble.[/QUOTE]
Good point.

We kinda flamed him a bit at first because he's a cowboy fan, but once we saw he actually had things to say and put some facts and good rationale behind his posts, he became a welcomed member of the board, even if he is a cowboys fan.

[QUOTE=cpayne5]No, we like others people's input. You wouldn't get flamed at all if you simply stated your opinion and some facts to back it up. When you come in with offensive statements like 'old man Gibbs', you should expect people to get defensive and for a flame war to get going.[/QUOTE]

Bottom Line here is Zack is a TROLL. He's not here to offer valid opinion or intelligent conversation, he's here to offend and irritate. He gets his jollies from being the center of attention because he's too small and insignificant in the real world to merit any form of acknowledgement. Ignore it and enjoy!

[QUOTE]Bottom Line here is Zack is a TROLL. He's not here to offer valid opinion or intelligent conversation, he's here to offend and irritate. He gets his jollies from being the center of attention because he's too small and insignificant in the real world to merit any form of acknowledgement. Ignore it and enjoy![/QUOTE]

Yup, from just over 100 posts you know exactly who I am :Smoker:

you click on zack's screen name, then below the avatar on his profile page, (on the red strip) it has text saying "Add XXXX to my Ignore list", click that, and you'll never have to hear his pointless crap again.

To borrow a phrase from Geoge Allen......... Lewis's view is "THE FUTURE IS NOW".....playing Carson Palmer and the younger guys and not looking at what worked in the past....Meanwhile Gibbs is mixing veterans and young guys and putting his kind of players together (may take another draft) and looking TOWARDS the FUTURE and knows that success will come once he obtains the talent..........