Spurrier Absolved?
 

I was reading an article on MSNBC.com and came across a quote I thought was interesting. It said this about [URL=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6409452/]Spurrier[/URL].

"He still is in his prime, and the more Joe Gibbs struggles with the Redskins, the more Spurrier gets absolved of wrong-doing in Washington."

If you ask me, the more Gibbs struggles, it just proves that Spurrier left a bigger hole for the Redskins to climb out of than people thought he did.

I agree with that. I know I underestimated just how far this team needed to come. Certainly Spurrier had some talented players and we acquired more in the off-season, but I've come to believe that Spurrier's style was actually determintal to team cohesion, dedication and confidence. He left a really big hole and Gibbs is still trying to dig out of it.

Spurrier won't be absolved unless he comes back to the NFL and wins.

"Absolved"? I'll take Gibbs over Spurrier anyday.

"He's still in his prime". Maybe as a college coach. His fun n gun needs some modification to have a chance in the NFL.

On one hand I hope he sticks with college, it's what he does best and he's great for the college game.

On the other hand I'd like to see him come back to the NFL and take some more beatings so people can finally see it's him, and not the Skins, that is the problem.

There's no way he can win in the NFL with the system and work ethic he had here. If he comes back to the NFL and is successful, it will be because he makes wholesale changes to his system and actually puts in the same blood, sweat and tears that the other 31 NFL head coaches do.

Either that or surround him with a stellar coaching staff that will hide his deficiencies and basically do alot of his work for him. But if you need to do that what's the point?

The only thing he did with the Redskins was an implementation of a flawed system that divided players from coaches & destroyed team unity. He never had this team running as a solid core. It's still an issue today. Gibbs will need another 2 seasons just to get this team running as one unit.

Gibbs will take this team to the playoffs in 2006. Mark my words....

You guys are quick to criticize spurrier, and he does deserve it of course, but the bigger problem was his supporting coaching staff. The change from george edwards to greg williams demonstrates that. If we had had this defense last year, we would have had a shot to make the playoffs. I think that Chris Mortenson's article last week did a pretty good job demonstrating that this is the consensus among many GM's.

As for Spurrier leaving lasting divisions in team unity, I think that's absurd. The problem with this team is not togetherness. In fact its not that mysterious what's wrong - its poor qb play, a spotty o line, and inexplicable offensive gameplanning.

Finally, to argue that this once again vaunted team once again sucking doesn't take heat off of spurier doesn't make much sense to me. Clearly, they have issues that transcend the limitations of the fun n' gun.

Let me ask you all something. Assume for a moment (I know you all have problems when I ask you to do this) that we had the defense last year we have this year. Coordinators et al. You think we would have been shy of the playoffs? I certainly don't.

I know Spurriers biggest problem was he didn't surroung himself with NFL guys. That's all about to change!

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]On one hand I hope he sticks with college, it's what he does best and he's great for the college game.

On the other hand I'd like to see him come back to the NFL and take some more beatings so people can finally see it's him, and not the Skins, that is the problem.

There's no way he can win in the NFL with the system and work ethic he had here. If he comes back to the NFL and is successful, it will be because he makes wholesale changes to his system and actually puts in the same blood, sweat and tears that the other 31 NFL head coaches do.

Either that or surround him with a stellar coaching staff that will hide his deficiencies and basically do alot of his work for him. But if you need to do that what's the point?[/QUOTE]

not to take anything away from gibbs. but one of the things he has always done best from football to nascar is surround himself with the best possible minds in the game and we all treat him like a god. so i dont think it would be fair if we bashed spurrier for doing the same.

[QUOTE=redskinsskickazz]not to take anything away from gibbs. but one of the things he has always done best from football to nascar is surround himself with the best possible minds in the game and we all treat him like a god. so i dont think it would be fair if we bashed spurrier for doing the same.[/QUOTE]

Spurrier failed the first time because he surrounded himself with UF bush league scrubs. I think we should credit Gibbs for for wisely choosing assistants, and hold spurrier somewhat accountable for not doing the same the first time.

I agree with you kickazz, that we shouldn't critique Spurrier if he came back and succeeded that way. Rather, we should commend him for finally figuring out what the NFL is all about. After all, what great head coach doesn't have a solid supporting staff around him. They all do!

[QUOTE=djnemo65]You guys are quick to criticize spurrier, and he does deserve it of course, but the bigger problem was his supporting coaching staff. The change from george edwards to greg williams demonstrates that. If we had had this defense last year, we would have had a shot to make the playoffs. I think that Chris Mortenson's article last week did a pretty good job demonstrating that this is the consensus among many GM's.

As for Spurrier leaving lasting divisions in team unity, I think that's absurd. The problem with this team is not togetherness. In fact its not that mysterious what's wrong - its poor qb play, a spotty o line, and inexplicable offensive gameplanning.

Finally, to argue that this once again vaunted team once again sucking doesn't take heat off of spurier doesn't make much sense to me. Clearly, they have issues that transcend the limitations of the fun n' gun.[/QUOTE]

I wholeheartedly disagree on the first point. We had Marvin Lewis in Spurrier's first year and we finished at .500. Now I haven't read Mortenson's article from last week, but to me we had a better team in '02 than in '03.

I do agree with you that it's poor play by the qb and offensive line as well as curious gameplanning that seems to be the problem. Too much inconsistency in those two areas has just damned us. Brunell hasn't shown that he can complete any pass with any consistency, witness his yds per attempt and the failure to complete 3rd downs.

The game is pretty simple, stop people on 3rd down and convert your own. We've been in games because our defense has been stellar in getting off the field on 3rd downs, as good as any Skins defense I've ever seen. But with our offense consistently unable to convert 3rd and anything we are sunk.

Warm up Ramsey, it's almost that time.

[QUOTE=memphisskin]I wholeheartedly disagree on the first point. We had Marvin Lewis in Spurrier's first year and we finished at .500. Now I haven't read Mortenson's article from last week, but to me we had a better team in '02 than in '03.

I do agree with you that it's poor play by the qb and offensive line as well as curious gameplanning that seems to be the problem. Too much inconsistency in those two areas has just damned us. Brunell hasn't shown that he can complete any pass with any consistency, witness his yds per attempt and the failure to complete 3rd downs.

The game is pretty simple, stop people on 3rd down and convert your own. We've been in games because our defense has been stellar in getting off the field on 3rd downs, as good as any Skins defense I've ever seen. But with our offense consistently unable to convert 3rd and anything we are sunk.

Warm up Ramsey, it's almost that time.[/QUOTE]

I think you are kind of proving my point. With Marvin Lewis we had a top 10 defense (were we seventh?) and finished 7-9. Without him we were 5-11, in spite of adding more talent. Had Marvin Lewis not gotten the Cincinatti job, it would have been interesting to see how the team would have been.

There were a number of games last year where we had the lead into the 4th quarter, but the D could not hold on. So I'll give some credence to the fact that a better D-coordinator like Lewis or Williams would have given us at least 2-3 more wins.
That said, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Gibbs and this year's team. The team attitude is so much better, even with a miserable 2-5 record. They want to stick it outand pull out of this funk together, and that is a direct reflection of their coach. Spurrier would be saying he doesn't know what to do right about now....if not already.

[QUOTE=redskinsskickazz]not to take anything away from gibbs. but one of the things he has always done best from football to nascar is surround himself with the best possible minds in the game and we all treat him like a god. so i dont think it would be fair if we bashed spurrier for doing the same.[/QUOTE]There's a difference though. Gibbs puts in an insane amount of hours right along with his assistants. He surrounds himself with great coaches but he's not leaving Redskins Park at 4pm to hit the greens. Gibbs understands it takes a great staff AND alot of hard work to be successful.

I don't think Spurrier really understood the work that NFL head coaches put in each week, game in and game out, gameplanning, breaking down film, studying your opponents tendencies, etc. Spurrier thought all he had to do was show up on Sundays with his fun 'n' gun system and everything would take care of itself. I guess there's more to the NFL than just a few ball plays, huh?

For his sake I hope he does dive in head first if he comes back. If he doesn't he'll likely be out on his butt in 2-3 seasons once again.

[QUOTE=djnemo65]I think you are kind of proving my point. With Marvin Lewis we had a top 10 defense (were we seventh?) and finished 7-9. Without him we were 5-11, in spite of adding more talent. Had Marvin Lewis not gotten the Cincinatti job, it would have been interesting to see how the team would have been.[/QUOTE]
Lewis wasn't going to fix the major protection problems we had on offense though.

Spurrier was supposed to be an offensive genius, instead he was very overmatched by NFL defensive coordinators who read his offense like a children's book.

I agree that Spurrier shortchanged the Skins in the number of hours he put into the job. However, long hours in the office by the coaching staff cannot be the answer to a losing team's problems. ARe you telling me that the coaching staffs for SF (1-6), Miami (1-7) and Oakland (2-6) are all "hitting the greens at 4PM. Not so!

The Skins are coached much better this year than last. They do not beat themselves with stupid penalties and off-the-wall trick plays. The Skins are losing because of the guys wearing numbers on their fronts and backs who are on the field on Sundays. They are simply not good enough to be a 5-2 team; that's why they are 2-5.

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]I agree that Spurrier shortchanged the Skins in the number of hours he put into the job. However, long hours in the office by the coaching staff cannot be the answer to a losing team's problems. ARe you telling me that the coaching staffs for SF (1-6), Miami (1-7) and Oakland (2-6) are all "hitting the greens at 4PM. Not so!
[/QUOTE]

I understand putting in long hours doesn't directly equate to success, but leaving at 4pm can't help. When 31 other coaches are burning the midnight oil and Spurrier is sitting at home watching Leno, it kinda makes you wonder what's wrong with this picture, don't you think?

Spurrier is a good man and a good coach that deserves respect. :cool-smil

[QUOTE=ZackMills]Spurrier is a good man and a good coach that deserves respect. :cool-smil[/QUOTE]

Who's disrespecting him?

So Spurrier deserves respect? For what? You make no sense little Zachary.

You say Spurrier deserves respect, and then you sit here disrespect one the greatest coaches in NFL history. :laughing-

[QUOTE=Redskins_P] You say Spurrier deserves respect, and then you sit here disrespect one the greatest coaches in NFL history. :laughing-[/QUOTE]
He's got you there zach

TD Redskins_P

Spurrier has been nothing but a classy guy while fans run all over him up and down constantly. He hasn't said anything negative about the players or organization, he's been in the area but tried to keep a low key. Spurrier was a modest man who took the blame on himself first. I love when he did it he was seen as some sort of fool and that all the problems stemmed from him. Now Gibbs is some sort of moral icon for doing it and none of the problems stem from him.

The fans have a problem with Spurrier because of his 12-20 record, not because anybody thought he lacked class. I wish him the best wherever he goes.

And again, 3 Super Bowl wins and your bust in Canton is going to buy you patience and respect from the fans. Fair or not, Gibbs is going to get the benefit of the doubt because he's already proven himself in this league.

There's really no comparing the two. They're both cut from different molds and Spurrier hasn't done jack in the NFL to deserve any respect from the fans.

I have nothing against Spurrier at all. I wish him nothing but the best. I also wish he would've succeeded here, but unfortunately he didn't. I admit, I was so excited when I found out he was coming to coach here and if he had still had Marvin Lewis, I think he would've stuck around. Unfortunately, that never happened and he walked away......


All Spurrier needed was some assistants with NFL experience, a good RB (imagine if he would've had Portis) and maybe a GM. If he ever comes back to the NFL, I believe he can succeed but he's gotta surround himself with some proven NFL assistants.

I dont know about a GM. He wanted Hall, Morton, Coles, Ramsey, etc. Got em' all!

I have to admit Spurrier did pick up some great players, especially Coles and Ramsey. Does Coles ever give interviews after a game? I am curious to hear what he says about the poor passing and just plain poor offense in general. His numbers aren't even half of what they were last year and I know that has somewhat to do with his toe injury but when we watches the balls sail over his head and behind him he's got to be thinking, "Come on!"

Spurrier MAY have figured out the NFL if he had stayed a bit longer. I think he was starting to realize that it was going to take more time and effort than what he thought at first. However, to say that he's been vendicated by our 2 -5 start with Gibbs is rather silly. Heck, we might win the rest of our games but even if we don't, Gibbs knows what he's doing and the game hasn't passed him by. To establish something solid and something that will be a true contender, it takes time. Sure we could probably easily have a winning record and could possibly even make the playoffs this year, but still this year is about finding out who is going to be true Redskins and who is in it for the long haul. I can't stress enough how people need to be paitent because Gibbs does know what he's doing and the time, effort, and the great coaching staff that has surround him...it's almost impossible to think he'll fail.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Spurrier has been nothing but a classy guy while fans run all over him up and down constantly. He hasn't said anything negative about the players or organization, he's been in the area but tried to keep a low key. Spurrier was a modest man who took the blame on himself first. I love when he did it he was seen as some sort of fool and that all the problems stemmed from him. Now Gibbs is some sort of moral icon for doing it and none of the problems stem from him.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree with you Daseal, and one thing I've never understood is the ferocity with which the media attacked him. He is a great coach who wound up in the perfectly wrong situation IMO. Or you may think he is a bad coach who lucked his way into that national championship. But the point is, he is a class act who doesn't deserve to be villified the way he is.

[QUOTE]Spurrier has been nothing but a classy guy while fans run all over him up and down constantly. He hasn't said anything negative about the players or organization, he's been in the area but tried to keep a low key. Spurrier was a modest man who took the blame on himself first. I love when he did it he was seen as some sort of fool and that all the problems stemmed from him. Now Gibbs is some sort of moral icon for doing it and none of the problems stem from him.[/QUOTE]


Great post :Smoker:

You won't find a classier guy than Gibbs

Matty, that's true. I'm curious to see how Gibbs would react to half of the negative press Spurrier had though.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Lewis wasn't going to fix the major protection problems we had on offense though.

Spurrier was supposed to be an offensive genius, instead he was very overmatched by NFL defensive coordinators who read his offense like a children's book.[/QUOTE]

and they're reading gibbs' offense like one right now too... i think that in time spurrier would have been successful, just like i hope/think gibbs will be

If I'm not mistaken, I think I remember Ramsey layed out on his back far too often due to Spurrier's Offensive "Genius." Gibbs maximizes protection for the quarterback...If the protection isn't there it is on the players not on Gibbs...Under Spurrier the protection problems were the result of poor coaching not player inability.

[QUOTE=NY_Skinsfan]If I'm not mistaken, I think I remember Ramsey layed out on his back far too often due to Spurrier's Offensive "Genius." Gibbs maximizes protection for the quarterback...If the protection isn't there it is on the players not on Gibbs...Under Spurrier the protection problems were the result of poor coaching not player inability.[/QUOTE]

precisely. if Gibbs has two TEs (and a better blocker than Trung Canidate) in one every play to NOT have his QB on his back, but the defense STILL gets through, how is that Gibbs' fault?? thats why Rasby's gone. and most likely, why Ramsey isn't playing, because while he'll throw better, he won't have time to because he can't escape the rush.

in Spurrier's no protection schemes, only maybe Vick could escape everything that came.

Last year the protection problems were due to the system and to poor coaching.

This year it's more due to lack of talent up front. We're missing our best lineman in Jansen, we have a 2nd year guard in Dockery who is still developing, and a very average center in Raymer.

I don't think the protection problems are even comparable. Last year defenses were busting through like a jail break, I don't see the same thing happening this year.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Last year the protection problems were due to the system and to poor coaching.

This year it's more due to lack of talent up front. We're missing our best lineman in Jansen, we have a 2nd year guard in Dockery who is still developing, and a very average center in Raymer.

I don't think the protection problems are even comparable. Last year defenses were busting through like a jail break, I don't see the same thing happening this year.[/QUOTE]

Oh absolutley. We at least have some resembalence of a O-line this year. Granted were not great, were proboly pretty average overall, but we can at least be somewhat productive. Last year we just got rolled, especially on passing. Our run blocking was still pretty well last year..... the whole 6 times a game we used it.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Matty, that's true. I'm curious to see how Gibbs would react to half of the negative press Spurrier had though.[/QUOTE]
You don't think Gibbs is getting grilled right now??

All I see are people saying what a mistake Brunell is and how stubborn he is by sticking by him. I've seen him ripped for poor clock and game management. On a weekly basis Wilbon goes into the other teams' locker room just to ask them how bad Brunell is. Anywhere you go now, sports radio, the papers, the internet, you'll hear people ripping on him.

Gibbs is feeling the heat. Maybe not as much as Spurrier, but Spurrier left himself open to more alot more criticism partly because of the cocky attitude he had coming into the job. Spurrier didn't seem to have a plan, talk about a flip-flopper.

One week he would say he needs to run more, the next week he would say he's got to play his style of ball more and pass, then he would go back to needing to run more, he regularly switched QB's, and on and on. His indecisiveness made him an easy target with the media. His awww shucks reponses also made him easier to attack.

Spurrier is the reason Gibbs is having difficulty.

[QUOTE]Spurrier is the reason Gibbs is having difficulty.[/QUOTE]

I hope that's sarcastic cause Coach Spurrier would have twice as many wins as Gibbie :Smoker:

[QUOTE=ZackMills]I hope that's sarcastic cause Coach Spurrier would have twice as many wins as Gibbie :Smoker:[/QUOTE]

Zack, seriously what would it take for you to change your opinion on Gibbs? How many wins will it take?

Redskins_P: I'm guessing more than two =p