Trading Players...Why?
 

I think this deserves it's own thread. I think people made comments on this topic in a few other threads.

Basically I want to understand the logic everyone has about trading away players who have played really well for us.

My examples are Cooley(Davis) and Andre Carter if Porter comes in. Here are my reasons I think trading them would be horrible idea.

1. They are very talented and are far better than the draft pick we would get for them.
2. Just because someone steps up and plays well in their position doesn't mean we don't need QUALITY depth.
3. We have always been a very star filled team LACKING depth everywhere.
4. We need to use player rotations and match up problems to our advantage.
5. Competition makes you better.
6. Just because we are playing a 3-4, I guarntee you there will be PLENTY of 4-3 sets with Carter and Orakpo on the line and hopefully Porter blitzing from the outside. Remember we have proven coaches.

Yes I understand we need Oline but I don't think trading Carter for a 4th and Cooley for a third will get us what we want.

I would like to hear your thoughts.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

Because I hate Landry . . .

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

address needs

I can see trading Carter, not a face of the franchise, could fit another system better, allow us to get something in return

Cooley I'd like to keep unless we get a sweetheart deal, even then it'll prob be the most :( trade since Champ

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;675446]Because I hate Landry . . .[/quote]

:lol:


It's just part of the offseason on here. Crazy trade scenarios that are being suggested more out of boredom since there is no real football to watch.

Most of them would hurt the team more than help...or are just so far fetched that they have ZERO chance of ever happening.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

People are trying to find ways to address our needs through the draft. That requires picks. To get picks you trade players that have value to other teams. You look at players who may not have value in the system you are bringing in(Carter), or players whose skill creates extraordinary value(Cooley). I doubt many of these type trades will occur but a new headcoach and GM also have to have the ability to bring in and create a team that fits their mojo. I doubt everyone agrees with every move, one person may say trade Jarmon, another Carter, and yet another Cooley. So scanning the board, the feeling is to trade all our talent away, but in reality each person is stating their best solution to our teams immediate needs.

So they are competing, not complementing, trade ideas. Very appropriate for our off-season of competition.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

Trading Cooley for a third would be downright foolish.

Players such as Carter, though, are a different story. He may not fit into our new defensive scheme. Better to get a draft pick than to watch him hold his helmet on the sideline all season.

Overall, the point of trading productive players for picks is to overhaul the roster and establish a new team culture. Many have argued that our biggest problem has been the team culture. If we swap out the players who cling to the old culture and replace them with young, mold-able newbies, the team culture can change more quickly and completely.

And don't forget that non-productive players don't garner draft picks. If our goal is to acquire picks, only productive players can be traded.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

and his stupid little monkey too.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

It's hard to argue with your logic, but to answer your question, I believe that people are clamoring for "change". Change in culture around the locker room and on the field. I think a lot of people see a change in personnel as a way to achieve this, and trading players for draft picks specifically. In that instance the only players of value towards a trade are the ones who have performed well for us, i.e. trade worthy.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=Buster;675453]:lol:


I[B]t's just part of the offseason on here. Crazy trade scenarios that are being suggested more out of boredom since there is no real football to watch.[/B]

Most of them would hurt the team more than help...or are just so far fetched that they have ZERO chance of ever happening.[/quote]
Ain't that the truth..:food-smil

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

Two main reasons

1. We were 4-12 last year, and dropped 6 of our last 8 the year before

2. We need to (excuse the business jargon here) leverage our assets for optimal growth. In the long run, a guy like Andre Carter doesn't have the same value as an extra draft pick does

Also, there's no way of knowing that what we have now is far better than the draft pick we would get for them.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=Redskin Jim;675470]Ain't that the truth..:food-smil[/quote]
You've been here for a while too...it can get crazy.

Back in the Coles/Gardner days and the Patrick Ramsey era...we had some crazy threads. :D

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

I blame it on several reasons:

- The Madden syndrome

- Change for the sake of change

- Since we view our team/players under a microscope we tend to undervalue our guys while overvaluing other team's players.

- Boredom

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=Lotus;675463]Trading Cooley for a third would be downright foolish.

Players such as Carter, though, are a different story. He may not fit into our new defensive scheme. Better to get a draft pick than to watch him hold his helmet on the sideline all season.

Overall, the point of trading productive players for picks is to overhaul the roster and establish a new team culture. Many have argued that our biggest problem has been the team culture. If we swap out the players who cling to the old culture and replace them with young, mold-able newbies, the team culture can change more quickly and completely.

[B]And don't forget that non-productive players don't garner draft picks. If our goal is to acquire picks, only productive players can be traded.[/B][/quote]

This seems to be overlooked too often

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

I'd like to trade our pick at #4 for three third rounders (or two) and move back to #7. That would net us some more picks.

High draft picks are far more valuable than players, unless they are Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams. Wait........... one of them was traded for picks, and the other was ...................traded for picks just before he was picked!



I think I'm on to something!

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

I would say pretty much everyone here is advocating that we trade productive players. No one expects us to trade Brennan for a 3rd rounder or anything like that. Carter and Jarmon probably won't be very productive in a 3-4, but they have both been productive in the 4-3. They should be shopped. Santana Moss won't be of any value to this team in 3 years. he should be shopped. We've got three pretty good strong safeties - horton or Landry should be shopped. Either Cooley or Davis should be shopped at some point before Davis' contract expires, but we have time there.

Other than those guys, (along with jason campbell and carlos rogers) i can't think of anyone on our team that has any trade value whatsoever.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=backrow;675526]I'd like to trade our pick at #4 for three third rounders (or two) and move back to #7. That would net us some more picks.

High draft picks are far more valuable than players, unless they are Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams. Wait........... one of them was traded for picks, and the other was ...................traded for picks just before he was picked!



I think I'm on to something![/quote]
Theres no way in hell Cleaveland would give up 3 third rounders to move up 3 spots. i highly doubt we could get two, either. even the outdated draft value chart would have cleaveland getting screwed over in both instances. A 3 and a 5 is more realistic, if Cleaveland were even interested.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

Too many rumor mills out there too, and too many gullible people. Seriously folks, stay away from ES or the Bleacher Report, or take both with a serious grain of salt when reading.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=Mattyk;675552]Too many rumor mills out there too, and too many gullible people. Seriously folks, stay away from ES or the Bleacher Report, or take both with a serious grain of salt when reading.[/quote]

are those the rumors going on there?

I never check BR and check ES every now and again

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=Mattyk;675552]Too many rumor mills out there too, and too many gullible people. Seriously folks, stay away from ES or the Bleacher Report, or take both with a serious grain of salt when reading.[/quote]

That old common sense principle works real well also. Oh! I forgot, that's something you have to be endowed with.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

With regards to Daivs/Cooley, I just think people naturally aren't comfortable with a backup that is capable as the starter and does not see the field, so they want a backup who is less capable but is basically the same price as the capable backup.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=Mattyk;675552]Too many rumor mills out there too, and too many gullible people. Seriously folks, stay away from ES or the Bleacher Report, or take both with a serious grain of salt when reading.[/quote]

You forgot PFT.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=Buster;675634]You forgot PFT.[/quote]

PFT has gotten better, at least in the offseason. We'll see what gutter-sludge comes up about resentment, etc later on.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

Trading Landry makes no sense.

Trading Cooley or Carter would make sense because they are positions of strength and the resulting picks could be used to fill a weakness. Plus, you are getting a younger, cheaper player who is hungry.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=backrow;675526]I'd like to trade our pick at #4 for three third rounders (or two) and move back to #7. That would net us some more picks.

High draft picks are far more valuable than players, unless they are Herschel Walker or Ricky Williams. Wait........... one of them was traded for picks, and the other was ...................traded for picks just before he was picked!



I think I'm on to something![/quote]


I would like a 21 year old blonde with natural D cups and a mute switch but it isn't happening...

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

i think the general consensus that i see from people is that for once, they are content to totally rip down the team to its foundation and rebuild...trade a few playeres for the future instead of hoping adding a few new players is the "kick in the ass" we need to jumpstart us to a winning season.
I love cooley, his cheerleader wife and his overexposed playbook pictures...but if i can get a tackle that will play for my team the next five plus years out of him he is going.
i dont think he is as expendable as everybody has made him to be this year...but nothing wrong with trying to get value out of a player if he is not in your long term plans ::cough cough:: campbell.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

Moss and Portis should have been shopped around after '07 and definitely after '08. Although I like both guys, '08 was the last year we could have gotten anything decent in return in terms of a trade. Now we have to ride them out til their contracts expire or just release them if the cap stays dead for 2011-2012.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;675477]Two main reasons

1. We were 4-12 last year, and dropped 6 of our last 8 the year before

2. We need to (excuse the business jargon here) leverage our assets for optimal growth. In the long run, a guy like Andre Carter doesn't have the same value as an extra draft pick does

Also, there's no way of knowing that what we have now is far better than the draft pick we would get for them.[/quote]

Correct!!!

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=doughtydoubter;675853]i think the general consensus that i see from people is that for once, they are content to totally rip down the team to its foundation and rebuild...trade a few playeres for the future instead of hoping adding a few new players is the "kick in the ass" we need to jumpstart us to a winning season.
I love cooley, his cheerleader wife and his overexposed playbook pictures...but if i can get a tackle that will play for my team the next five plus years out of him he is going.
i dont think he is as expendable as everybody has made him to be this year...but nothing wrong with trying to get value out of a player if he is not in your long term plans ::cough cough:: campbell.[/quote]

I found the picture funny but I wouldn't say that I loved it.. hmm.. haha

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

Why trade our players? For the same reason why any trade is made, to improve our teams position for whatever goal we are trying to meet. Right now we are trying to do two things. Get more youth on our team and get players that fit the new coaching staff's system. Cooley is considered to be tradeable because it is not a dire need for teams to have two quality pass catching tight ends. They both can't produce great numbers, it hasn't happened before and I dont anticipate it to happen in the future. The depth is nice, but getting a second rounder that can be immediate depth and a future starter is better than just having insurance on our tight end. Carter is tradeable because he just doesnt fit the 3-4. We might play some 4-3, but not enough to have carter be too effective. He is also getting up there in years (10 seasons I think?) and cannot play forever. It would be beneficial to get a future contributor for years to come rather than keep a part time contributor for another year or two. The last thing I would say is the money we owe Cooley/Carter would be nice to dump...especially Carter considering he will probably not come close to playing up to his contract in the 3-4.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

tradeable - Cooley, Rogers, Moss, maybe Carter.

Cooley, only if you can get a 1st, Rogers for a 2nd, be lucky to get a 3rd for either Moss or Carter. Maybe a 3rd for Rogers..the dude is just bad.

I would hate to see cooley go, but this regime has no ties to any of the players on this roster. They know they have talent, but may want to bring in their own guys and build through the draft, which means anything, anyone is available. Campbell still may be a draft day trade, if someone comes up in the 2nd round and doesn't like anyone available (buffalo) they could offer the 2nd rounder, and I think you take it at this point.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=#56fanatic;676872]tradeable - [B]Cooley, Rogers, Moss, maybe Carter[/B].

Cooley, only if you can get a 1st, Rogers for a 2nd, be lucky to get a 3rd for either Moss or Carter. Maybe a 3rd for Rogers..the dude is just bad.

I would hate to see cooley go, but this regime has no ties to any of the players on this roster. They know they have talent, but may want to bring in their own guys and build through the draft, which means anything, anyone is available. Campbell still may be a draft day trade, if someone comes up in the 2nd round and doesn't like anyone available (buffalo) they could offer the 2nd rounder, and I think you take it at this point.[/quote]


i would switch it to ([B]rogers,moss,carter,maybe cooley[/B])
[I]carter[/I] is not a good in the 3-4.like someone said earlier,it's useless to have him standing on the sidelines for the majority of a game.
[I]cooley[/I] is a proven,probowl caliber tightend. the team needs to be careful in regards to cooley vs. davis. davis did well last year but he's still not the caliber TE that cooley is.the team could possibly trade davis.

Re: Trading Players...Why?
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;675847]Trading Landry makes no sense.

Trading Cooley or Carter would make sense because they are positions of strength and the resulting picks could be used to fill a weakness. Plus, you are getting a younger, cheaper player who is hungry.[/quote]

I think it would make sense if we trade down out of the 4th spot pick up another high pick, trade Landry for hopefully a 3rd or better, then draft Berry or Mays (whoever is available) then with the 2nd rounder pick an OT and with the pick added from the trade whether it is a 2nd or 3rd rounder get an OG, plus we get the Landry pick for either a LB, QB or RB. I would also try to trade Carter.