On the radar: Skins WR's
 

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Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

It's definitely put up or shut up time for Thomas and Kelly. We need at least one of them to break through in a big way.

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No surprise if Kelly or Thomas is cut prior to the season. Step up time is now

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I thought Moss addressed the media on Wed. after OTA's. With the WR's we have and with McNabb's ability to get the most out of WR's that area should not be a problem.

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[quote=Chico23231;703876][B]No surprise if Kelly or Thomas is cut prior to the season.[/B] Step up time is now[/quote]

I would be very surprised. Especially with the uncertainty surrounding Moss and his situation. Plus it's still premature to give up on either one.

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

[quote=Chico23231;703876]No surprise if Kelly or Thomas is cut prior to the season. Step up time is now[/quote]

Why would we do that? If one of them lays an egg again this season, sure they'll be cut AFTER the season, but it would be ridiculous to cut them before getting a chance with McNabb.

It would leave us with Galloway, Moss and who else? Bobby Wade? Roydell Williams? Terrence Austin? Brandon Banks?

We need and I expect will see BOTH of them step up this season. I expect Devin Thomas to end up being our #1 WR sometime this season and will remain there going forward.

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

[quote=Mattyk;703880]I would be very surprised. Especially with the uncertainty surrounding Moss and his situation. Plus it's still premature to give up on either one.[/quote]

The Moss situation diffently helps both, but I gotta say been a little surprised by the receiver position with Shanny already...signing Galloway and then the cut pretty early cutting of Marko...now with the Moss situation, head is kinda spinning. Not giving up on either, but I agree with the article of fans are tired of talking potential with these guys...but nothing will surprise me at this point. Wade though has staying power on the roster, and if someone is cut and Kelly or Thomas are lacking or not on the field due to injury or something, Shanny wont hesitate to bring in someone else

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I think DT showed adequate improvement in year 2. He had some games (Denver, NO) where he made a real impact. He might not become a big time star but he looks like he's on his way to being a solid nfl starter. If he improves gradually this year, I'll consider him a decent pick.

Kelly on the other hand doesn't look too good to me. He seems bright, yet word was that Zorn got tired of his poor route running. I don't know if that's due to lack of discipline/study, or he can't get out of the press from CBs early enough. He's got good hands, but he never seems to get more than an inch of separation. He didn't seem to progress much last year, but that could've been due to Zorn not getting him in as much.

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

[quote=Mattyk;703880]I would be very surprised. Especially with the uncertainty surrounding Moss and his situation. Plus it's still premature to give up on either one.[/quote]
agreed. think that their results this year will reflect on their offseason work. no reason not to break out now. probably wouldn't cut them even if disappointing this year, maybe next

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I like DT he is a real WC type guy. Kelly has hands like glue them boys bad!!!! They were kinda zorny last year, but not this year.

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Having McNabb throw to these guys is an instant improvement. He did more with less in past years. Cutting DT or Kelly before the season probably wasn't being considered before the moss issue arose, right now I'd say it's completely off the table if it ever was on the table. Thomas wasn't bad last year, he had some nice plays, he also had some dub plays but this team will have to give both Thomas and Kelly more time. Also, Davis has said that he has been taking reps at both TE and also the flanker positions so you might see some 2TE motion sets where Davis flexs to the outside (perfect goaline package for this team).

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Finally a post that i'm really looking forward to see the competition in. I've said it comes down to desire/talent/coaching & it dosen't have to be in that order. I do beleive it's make it or break it for MK & DT & barring a freak accident or anything they will step up DM has the skills to bring the talent out of them.

HTTR.

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

The KS scheme should help all the W/R. It's already been said that the receivers are running wide open during the OTa's. Let's hope it carries over.

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;703941][B]The KS scheme should help all the W/R. It's already been said that the receivers are running wide open during the OTa's. Let's hope it carries over.[/[/B]QUOTE]

Now wouldn't that be a beautiful thing. I hope so i just want to be competitive. :vomit: :vomit: I can't get that 4-12 taste out of my mouth.

HTTR.

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

What we need is for the current WR's we have to get open. Nobody could get open last year because they just weren't fast enough. Plus it took a long time for JC to decide who to throw the ball to, and by the time he threw it the WR's were fully covered.

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guys were getting open but not being targeted or Campbell didn't notice, already was checking down or something

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;703941][B]The KS scheme should help all the W/R. It's already been said that the receivers are running wide open during the OTa's. Let's hope it carries over.[/[/B]QUOTE]

Actually, WR's "running wide open during practice" scares me. Athough McNabb makes them better -- I just hope that doesn't mean our secondary is sucking it up...

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

Kelly is a gamer and will excel, it is Thomas I am worried about. It has been a long time since a Spartan has really done well in the NFL. Last one that made any positive impact on his team was Lorenzo White. On top of that, Thomas was expected to be the one to make the big move last season. I know the line sucked and the play calling was suspect, but still you should be able to perform somewhat. I agree with everyone else, this is do or die for those two, but I am more apt to think Kelly is the more likely to succeed.

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

Thomas had some stellar plays, truly showed elite potential

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I'd feel more comfortable betting on Thomas's future here. The reverse in the Giants game was an excellent display of what he can be. Let's hope McCardell coaches him up.

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

[quote=ethat001;703980][QUOTE=Longtimefan;703941][B]The KS scheme should help all the W/R. It's already been said that the receivers are running wide open during the OTa's. Let's hope it carries over.[/[/B]QUOTE]

Actually, WR's "running wide open during practice" scares me. Athough McNabb makes them better -- I just hope that doesn't mean our secondary is sucking it up...[/quote]

The pads will offer the best test.

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[quote=GusFrerotte;703990]Kelly is a gamer and will excel, it is Thomas I am worried about. [B]It has been a long time since a Spartan has really done well in the NFL. Last one that made any positive impact on his team was Lorenzo White. [/B]On top of that, Thomas was expected to be the one to make the big move last season. I know the line sucked and the play calling was suspect, but still you should be able to perform somewhat. I agree with everyone else, this is do or die for those two, but I am more apt to think Kelly is the more likely to succeed.[/quote]
Plaxico Burress?

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[quote=Redskin Jim;704025]Plaxico Burress?[/quote]

= Prison for another yr. :) or so I thought.

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If you don't see DT or MK doing really well in camp coming up or even the first or second preseason games I wouldn't consider it an impossibility for Shanny to sign T.O. I mean if you can sign Galloway, come on. Everyone craps on T.O. but he put up almost 1000 receiving yard last year in a not so stellar Buffalo offense. I think if we are looking for another WR he could have an impact. Just depends of if they think his play will out way the possibility for an off the field head case.

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So if Patrick Crayton is asking for a release from the Cowboys, anyone think the Skins would be interested in giving him a look if the Cowboys actually cut him?

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I believe we should take a[B] look [/B]at Crayton.

Don't know if we should sign him though. I think if we have some one go down or not picking up the playbook properly in training camp I think TO could get a look to.

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

[quote=SkinzWin;704039]So if Patrick Crayton is asking for a release from the Cowboys, anyone think the Skins would be interested in giving him a look if the Cowboys actually cut him?[/quote]

Id pass on Crayton, we already have a bunch of number 3 receivers. We need our own guys to step it up at this point.

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

I think with McNabb and the Shanahans, we're going to have a much better offense than last year. It's going to be so much better. Think of what McNabb did with the likes of Todd Pinkston, and Reggie Brown as top receivers year to year.
There was a report back in January about Kelly siting down with MS and going over middle of the field routes run by Andre Johnson, and that's how they want to use Kelly. This coaching staff is such an upgrade to last year, and I think it will show this season.
MS knows how to utilize talent and intangibles.

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[quote=Chico23231;704048]Id pass on Crayton, we already have a bunch of number 3 receivers. We need our own guys to step it up at this point.[/quote]

I completely love the optimism..... however......

Just to point out some obvious issue/issues:

1- If Thomas and Kelly were any good they would have shown some sort of spark by now.

2- Kelly is technically only in his 2nd yr since his first was an injury yr.

3- If Thomas and Kelly were the itshay that everyone thinks or hopes they will be why go out and pick up 2 vets, 1 drafted Rookie, and an undrafted free agent?

I too hope the 2 step up big and we all can rest knowing we have 2 excellent WR's, but I'm also the type who likes to prepare. I like to make contingencies in case the two don't. Which means if the 2 don't work out to be decent, the 2 vets suck, and only 1 of the Rookies works out we are still screwed. All we would have is Moss and a Rookie.

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[quote=SBXVII;704056]I completely love the optimism..... however......

Just to point out some obvious issue/issues:

1- If Thomas and Kelly were any good they would have shown some sort of spark by now.

2- Kelly is technically only in his 2nd yr since his first was an injury yr.

3- If Thomas and Kelly were the itshay that everyone thinks or hopes they will be why go out and pick up 2 vets, 1 drafted Rookie, and an undrafted free agent?

I too hope the 2 step up big and we all can rest knowing we have 2 excellent WR's, but I'm also the type who likes to prepare. I like to make contingencies in case the two don't. Which means if the 2 don't work out to be decent, the 2 vets suck, and only 1 of the Rookies works out we are still screwed. All we would have is Moss and a Rookie.[/quote]

daggon, u gettin' me excited!!!!!!

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

The good news is there is a lot to keep the fans interested in;

1- How will both Shanahan's offense look?
2- How much of the offense will the players retain?
3- How will McNabb look and perform in this offense?
4- Which WR will step up and shine?
5- Will the team utilize both Davis and Cooley?
6- Which RB will outperform the others?
7- How will the OL perform?

Then there's the defense;
8- Will the players have a decent grasp of the scheme?
9- How will our players perform in the scheme?
10- Will AH be here and be a beast?
11- Do we have the right mix of players to play together?
12- Will special teams be better then in past yrs?

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

[quote=SBXVII;704077]The good news is there is a lot to keep the fans interested in;

1- How will both Shanahan's offense look?
2- How much of the offense will the players retain?
3- How will McNabb look and perform in this offense?
4- Which WR will step up and shine?
5- Will the team utilize both Davis and Cooley?
6- Which RB will outperform the others?
7- How will the OL perform?

Then there's the defense;
8- Will the players have a decent grasp of the scheme?
9- How will our players perform in the scheme?
10- Will AH be here and be a beast?
11- Do we have the right mix of players to play together?
12- Will special teams be better then in past yrs?[/quote]

1- AWESOME
2- A LOT
3- Like a Pro Bowler
4- Marko Mitchell (oops)... Devin Thomas
5- YES!
6- Brian Westbrook :laughing-
7- Either masterfully or catastrophically

8- By week 3 or 4
9- Admirably
10- Yes when he's not on one knee on the sideline sucking air.
11- Of course
12- I hope so?!? :confused-

(My predictions for SBXVII's news to keep me interested in. PS, feel free to disagree)

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I'm so tired of talking about these two guys. It's year 3. Either you start doing it in games or it's time to move on. I bet one of them doesn't even make the team..my guess it would be Kelly cause he doesn't play teams.

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

[quote=Longtimefan;703941]The KS scheme should help all the W/R. It's already been said that the receivers are running wide open during the OTa's. Let's hope it carries over.[/quote]

This means nothing cause it's practice w/out pads. I'm sure a lot of the routes in the Zorn's offense are pretty much the same. They just run them out of different formations.

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

[quote=SBXVII;704056]I completely love the optimism..... however......

Just to point out some obvious issue/issues:

1- If Thomas and Kelly were any good they would have shown some sort of spark by now.

2- Kelly is technically only in his 2nd yr since his first was an injury yr.

3- If Thomas and Kelly were the itshay that everyone thinks or hopes they will be why go out and pick up 2 vets, 1 drafted Rookie, and an undrafted free agent?

I too hope the 2 step up big and we all can rest knowing we have 2 excellent WR's, but I'm also the type who likes to prepare. I like to make contingencies in case the two don't. Which means if the 2 don't work out to be decent, the 2 vets suck, and only 1 of the Rookies works out we are still screwed. All we would have is Moss and a Rookie.[/quote]

C'mon man save that pessimism for the defense.

Our offense is gonna be legit this year and be exciting to watch.

1.) Thomas has shown spark. With the ball in his hands he's maybe the most athletic guy on the team. In a sense, now that we have a real WR coach and a very real offensive scheme, Thomas' probability for success goes up dramatically. He's got to learn to run solid routes and create separation. He does those things and we have a monster on our hands.

2.) Any success Kelly has w/ us is just icing at this point.

3.) I tend to believe the Shanahan's would definitely have acquired more starting talent at WR if they didn't expect big things from our guys. Mike and Kyle will live and die by their offense, and if they haven't figured as much out then it's all really moot anyway.

I think the offensive scheme will maximize our talent. That means heavy doses of TE receptions. My guess is Moss and Thomas start @ WR w/ Fred getting work in the slot and Cooley at TE. If Kelly makes some strides we'll see him work at WR and the slot.

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[quote=skinsfan69;704105]This means nothing cause it's practice w/out pads. I'm sure a lot of the routes in the Zorn's offense are pretty much the same. They just run them out of different formations.[/quote]

The routes are going be similar but even some of the players have said that Zorn's mentality was scheme takes priority over all else. Forget what the defense is giving you or what personnel you have on the field (or healthy) just pick a play and run it. He never called plays that utilized a player's ability. It was more or less fitting a sqare peg into a round hole. His inability to adjust to changing game conditions lead to his ultimate firing. We had an o-line that could not pocket protect, WC offenses usually move the pocket to account for this (one of Bill Walsh's central WC philosopies) we never did that. In the NFL you can't depend on scheme alone wo win games and that is something that a coach like Shanahan realizes.

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Redskins 2009 AV totals are out [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2009_roster.htm"]at profootballreference[/URL]. I just listed the offensive totals here.

1. QB Jason Campbell 11
2. OT Stephon Heyer 7
3. WR Santana Moss 7
4. TE Fred Davis 6
5. G Derrick Dockery 6
6. C Casey Rabach 6
7. WR Antwaan Randle El 4
8. RB Rock Cartwright 4
9. RB Clinton Portis 4
10. RB Ladell Betts 3
11. FB Mike Sellers 3
12. OL Mike Williams 3
13. WR Malcolm Kelly 3
14. WR Devin Thomas 3
15. TE Chris Cooley 3
16. OT Levi Jones 3
17. OT Chris Samuels 2
18. RB Quinton Ganther 2
19. G Chad Rinehart 2
20. G Will Montgomery 2
21. G Edwin Williams 1
22. G Randy Thomas 1
23. RB Marcus Mason 1
24. TE Todd Yoder 1
25. WR Marko Mitchell 0
26. OT D'Anthony Batiste 0
27. OT Will Robinson 0

Re: On the radar: Skins WR's
 

[quote=The Goat;704109]C'mon man save that pessimism for the defense.

Our offense is gonna be legit this year and be exciting to watch.

1.) Thomas has shown spark. With the ball in his hands he's maybe the most athletic guy on the team. In a sense, now that we have a real WR coach and a very real offensive scheme, Thomas' probability for success goes up dramatically. He's got to learn to run solid routes and create separation. He does those things and we have a monster on our hands.

2.) Any success Kelly has w/ us is just icing at this point.

3.) I tend to believe the Shanahan's would definitely have acquired more starting talent at WR if they didn't expect big things from our guys. Mike and Kyle will live and die by their offense, and if they haven't figured as much out then it's all really moot anyway.

I think the offensive scheme will maximize our talent. That means heavy doses of TE receptions. My guess is Moss and Thomas start @ WR w/ Fred getting work in the slot and Cooley at TE. If Kelly makes some strides we'll see him work at WR and the slot.[/quote]

We'll see. Thomas seems to have the best chance to be the one that makes an impact. But when I see Crabtree walk in off the street w/ no training camp, miss a few games and he ends up catching more balls from Alex Smith than these guys have done in two years it really makes me doubt their ability. I just don't think these guys are any good but I hope I'm wrong.

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[quote=skinsfan69;704147]We'll see. Thomas seems to have the best chance to be the one that makes an impact. But when I see Crabtree walk in off the street w/ no training camp, miss a few games and he ends up catching more balls from Alex Smith than these guys have done in two years it really makes me doubt their ability. I just don't think these guys are any good but I hope I'm wrong.[/quote]
I am not sure how the WR's will do, but our whole offensive structure - from Zorn all the way down to Hixon - and plan was so anemic, it's just not fair to compare it to Crabtree's situation.
I hope at least one will flourish this year, and maybe both will.

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I find myself almost rooting for the other WR's now, Armstrong, Austin, Banks. I found this nice nugget from Matt Terl's tweet page...

[QUOTE]I think @LarryWeisman is becoming obsessed with WR Anthony Armstrong. Guy keeps making catches.
about 1 hour ago via Echofon [/QUOTE]