Positive remark on McNabb
 

I was reading this article on ESPN about pressuring the quarterback and there was a quick remark about McNabb doing well against pressure.

"There are those rare quarterbacks, like Aaron Rodgers, [B]Donovan McNabb[/B] and Ben Roethlisberger, who produce well when under that kind of pressure, but the average stats tell the value of the hurry."

Everyone has been talking about how poor the offensive line will be, but at least there are some remarks about how McNabb performs under pressure.

[url=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=5238886]Elvis Dumervil, Tamba Hali need help on the hurry front - ESPN[/url]

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

Well we will certainly know soon enough. It's been said before, but the truth is we are looking at another horrible O-line. I've seen nothing that says this line is much better than last year...

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;705524]Well we will certainly know soon enough. It's been said before, but the truth is we are looking at another horrible O-line. I've seen nothing that says this line is much better than last year...[/quote]

imho both artis hicks and trent williams are upgrades.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

I agree fully but do you think they will be immediate contributers? I figured they would learn for part of the season behind a veteran....

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=johno;705527]imho both artis hicks and trent williams are upgrades.[/quote]

I agree, but the depth at this time is still a major issue with the Oline. Williams is gonna be good and a great upgrade, Hicks is an upgrade, but not much IMO.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

Recently I did an event with someone who has been with the Eagles for decades. We talked about the McNabb deal and we both agreed it was a win-win for both teams since McNabb is a massive upgrade from Campbell.

Where we disagreed was this person with the Eagles felt that McNabb has in the past, and would probably continue to always choke in the big games.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;705534]Recently I did an event with someone who has been with the Eagles for decades. We talked about the McNabb deal and we both agreed it was a win-win for both teams since McNabb is a massive upgrade from Campbell.

Where we disagreed was this person with the Eagles felt that McNabb has in the past, and would probably continue to always choke in the big games.[/quote]

We'll see if the choke artist was Reid or McNabb this year.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;705528]I agree fully but do you think they will be immediate contributers? I figured they would learn for part of the season behind a veteran....[/quote]

That's a fair question, but I do think that they contribute immediately. I think they both start the first game of the season. Would it be better for Williams to learn behind a veteran? Yeah. Do we have enough veterans that can hold down the fort at LT until Williams is ready? Nope. We all had to watch the nonsense offensive line that was out there last season.

Also, do I like asking questions and then immediately answering them? You betcha. lol

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=Buster;705541]We'll see if the choke artist was Reid or McNabb this year.[/quote]

Just remember, I did disagree with him on the later part of the statement.

I keep thinking of the Steelers and Bill Cowher. They stuck with him, and he eventually got them the prize.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;705528]I agree fully but do you think they will be immediate contributers? I figured they would learn for part of the season behind a veteran....[/quote]

Hicks is quite the veteran.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=tryfuhl;705549]Hicks is quite the veteran.[/quote]

Be it veterans or rookies, it takes time for the o-line to gel.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=Duffman003;705520]I was reading this article on ESPN about pressuring the quarterback and there was a quick remark about McNabb doing well against pressure.

"There are those rare quarterbacks, like Aaron Rodgers, [B]Donovan McNabb[/B] and Ben Roethlisberger, who produce well when under that kind of pressure, but the average stats tell the value of the hurry."

Everyone has been talking about how poor the offensive line will be, but at least there are some remarks about how McNabb performs under pressure.

[URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=5238886"]Elvis Dumervil, Tamba Hali need help on the hurry front - ESPN[/URL][/quote]

Personally I'm not a McNabb fan. Reason being that I feel he is getting old and seems to get hurt each yr. He's also not the runner he used to be. McNabb used to be good at eluding the rush and either getting the ball out or running for the first down. McNabb is older and not as agile. When I heard we picked him up I was "oh heck no." But having heard how Shanahan worked with Elway while in his 30's and remembering that most of Shanahan's play calls (pass wise) have the QB rolling out to help avoid the rush, I think now we will be ok.

I also felt our OL was kinda small for Buges man-to-man style of play. On top of that I don't think Buges was ever fond of or excellent at teaching zone blocking. Combine this with Zorn's crappy scheme and you can see why we had failure.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

One reason depth was always such a major weakness for our line was that we had 2-3 veterans who we knew would miss games on a regular basis(Samuels, Jansen, etc.) so we always needed a backup in along the line. In the same span, the Giants line went 3 seasons without an injury. I hope that now that the line is substantial younger we will not be relying on backups all the time.

I am not arguing that backups are not important, only that we hopefully won't rely on them nearly as much.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;705528]I agree fully but do you think they will be immediate contributers? I figured they would learn for part of the season behind a veteran....[/quote]

I don't think there is that much of a learning curve from college to pro when your talking O line and I expect Williams will start.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=SBXVII;705552]Personally I'm not a McNabb fan. Reason being that I feel he is getting old and seems to get hurt each yr. He's also not the runner he used to be. McNabb used to be good at eluding the rush and either getting the ball out or running for the first down. McNabb is older and not as agile. When I heard we picked him up I was "oh heck no." But having heard how Shanahan worked with Elway while in his 30's and remembering that most of Shanahan's play calls (pass wise) have the QB rolling out to help avoid the rush, I think now we will be ok.

I also felt our OL was kinda small for Buges man-to-man style of play. On top of that I don't think Buges was ever fond of or excellent at teaching zone blocking. Combine this with Zorn's crappy scheme and you can see why we had failure.[/quote]

McNabb had to stop running so much. Coaches wanted him to be known as a passer. You miss reads when you run. IMO a first down is a first down. Okay coach what's your next play, on that one I had to run and get the first down right quick. Zorn would go balistic if Campbell ran and there was an open receiver. I'm like get over yourself and you so-called scheme Zorn, we are not getting first downs your way.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

Zorn sure did suck as a play caller. I mean i know we've had bad teams before but my god was that man pathetic.

Couldn't ask for a nicer guy, but he wasn't cut out to be a head coach, let alone playcaller.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;705547]Just remember, I did disagree with him on the later part of the statement.

I keep thinking of the Steelers and Bill Cowher. They stuck with him, and he eventually got them the prize.[/quote]

He got them the prize when he finally found a QB that could get the job done. Cowher wasnt the problem, Kordell Stewart was.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;705565]McNabb had to stop running so much. Coaches wanted him to be known as a passer. [B]You miss reads when you run. [/B]IMO a first down is a first down. Okay coach what's your next play, on that one I had to run and get the first down right quick. Zorn would go balistic if Campbell ran and there was an open receiver. I'm like get over yourself and you so-called scheme Zorn, we are not getting first downs your way.[/quote]

I think Gibbs always had him figured out though. Keep McNabb contained and collapse the pocket. McNabb was only a major threat when he ran or rolled out of the pocket cause he was awsome at hitting passing ont he run. I think he will do well in Shanahan's offensive scheme due to the roll outs.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;705566]Zorn sure did suck as a play caller. I mean i know we've had bad teams before but my god was that man pathetic.

Couldn't ask for a nicer guy, but he wasn't cut out to be a head coach, let alone playcaller.[/quote]

I'm guessing your trying to keep it medium?

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;705565]McNabb had to stop running so much. Coaches wanted him to be known as a passer. You miss reads when you run. IMO a first down is a first down. Okay coach what's your next play, on that one I had to run and get the first down right quick. Zorn would go balistic if Campbell ran and there was an open receiver. I'm like get over yourself and you so-called scheme Zorn, we are not getting first downs your way.[/quote]

Yeah good point. He didn't lose the ability to scramble as much as he turned himself into more of a passer than runner. He's still able to get out of the pocket when needed and he's not easy to sack.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=irish;705568]He got them the prize when he finally found a QB that could get the job done. Cowher wasnt the problem, Kordell Stewart was.[/quote]

I am the rare Steeler fan who will disagree with you on Stewart. Just remember how many AFC Championship games he got them to. You could have said the same thing about a lot of QBs who are considered very good.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;705551]Be it veterans or rookies, it takes time for the o-line to gel.[/quote]
This is true, but I'm not sure what veteran on the squad that Hicks should be sitting behind to learn. Ability/athleticism is one thing but who currently on the line can teach him?

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;705555]One reason depth was always such a major weakness for our line was that we had 2-3 veterans who we knew would miss games on a regular basis(Samuels, Jansen, etc.) so we always needed a backup in along the line. In the same span, the Giants line went 3 seasons without an injury. I hope that now that the line is substantial younger we will not be relying on backups all the time.

I am not arguing that backups are not important, only that we hopefully won't rely on them nearly as much.[/quote]Interesting, then, that the two guys who kept their jobs on the OL from last year were not really our best performers, but rather, the two guys who managed to start 16 games each next to each other.

There's probably something to that, I would think.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=johno;705527]imho both artis hicks and trent williams are upgrades.[/quote]Hicks almost certainly won't be a better RT than Heyer. Williams, on the other hand, probably can do about as well as post-probowl/end of career Samuels in his first year.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=GTripp0012;705602]Hicks almost certainly won't be a better RT than Heyer. Williams, on the other hand, probably can do about as well as post-probowl/end of career Samuels in his first year.[/quote]

How can you be so sure about Hicks? Heyer is terrible.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=skinsfan69;705609]How can you be so sure about Hicks? Heyer is terrible.[/quote]Hicks is a 31 year old failed right guard who still has a job because he's a system guy.

Heyer might not be adequate by most standards, but he's an NFL offensive tackle, at the very least. Guys like Mike Williams and Artis Hicks are just blocking others like Lichtensteigher/Rinehart/Fanaika/Edwin Williams/Heyer.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;705555]One reason depth was always such a major weakness for our line was that we had 2-3 veterans who we knew would miss games on a regular basis(Samuels, Jansen, etc.) so we always needed a backup in along the line. In the same span, the Giants line went 3 seasons without an injury. I hope that now that the line is substantial younger we will not be relying on backups all the time.

I am not arguing that backups are not important, only that we hopefully won't rely on them nearly as much.[/quote]

A gang of undrafted free agents for guys who we knew were going to be injured shows the type of football acumen our old front office had when it came to depth. I think its pretty important when i comes to both lines...right now the depth at the same ole spot (both tackles) is where i worry. Would LOVE to see Capers emerge, and what I heard about Heyer this offseason is not good...Right side of Oline is questionable at this point, but hey whats new? Hopefully scheme will help

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=Leader In Sports;705534]Recently I did an event with someone who has been with the Eagles for decades. We talked about the McNabb deal and we both agreed it was a win-win for both teams since McNabb is a massive upgrade from Campbell.

Where we disagreed was this person with the Eagles felt that McNabb has in the past, and would probably continue to always choke in the big games.[/quote]

There's a need in place now to see McNabb dispel that label. His greatest asset here will be to finally have a consistent running game. If that's not the cure, then there is none.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

I think it's unfair pressure on McNabb really, to all of a sudden be expected to be "the answer". I am not a huge McNabb fan, but i respect him as a person and what he has done for the Eagles, but the truth of the matter is that Campbell was such a poor quarterback here, along with a myriad of other problems, that it places undue expectations on Donovan, who is surely in the twilight of his career.

IMO, they would have gave themselves just as much chance of success this year by drafting a young new QB to go along with the new system that they are building here. Donovan will be good for a year maybe even two, but what worries me the most is that there is nobody behind him that can be a legitimate starter when he goes down. Colt is the only guy i see who could be molded into a starter. Rex was a failed experiment. I dunno about Bartel, or even if he will be here when the season starts.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=Longtimefan;705623]There's a need in place now to see McNabb dispel that label. His greatest asset here will be to finally have a consistent running game. If that's not the cure, then there is none.[/quote]

There are certain types of fans and media who say that about any player that gets there and doesn't win.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=30gut;705701]There are certain types of fans and media say that about any player that gets there and doesn't win.[/quote]

In the Super Bowl era, McNabb is the most successful QB the Eagles have ever had. His record blows the pants off of Jaws, Cunningham etc.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

I think McNabb will be fine. I worry more about the injuries this team has always had in the past few years. Portis gets hurt a lot now, so does/did our OL. Can our young WRs step up and really contribute, and can we score more than 17 points a game? Those are my questions.

McNabb is not what I worry about.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;705673]I think it's unfair pressure on McNabb really, to all of a sudden be expected to be "the answer". I am not a huge McNabb fan, but i respect him as a person and what he has done for the Eagles, but the truth of the matter is that Campbell was such a poor quarterback here, along with a myriad of other problems, that it places undue expectations on Donovan, who is surely in the twilight of his career.

IMO, they would have gave themselves just as much chance of success this year by drafting a young new QB to go along with the new system that they are building here. Donovan will be good for a year maybe even two, but what worries me the most is that there is nobody behind him that can be a legitimate starter when he goes down. Colt is the only guy i see who could be molded into a starter. Rex was a failed experiment. I dunno about Bartel, or even if he will be here when the season starts.[/quote]

Donovan is going to be the most closely watched player we've traded for in a long while. The pressure he'll be under may or may not be justified, but it comes with the territory and the position he plays. Because he has been a combination of both success and failure, the scrunity will be heightened depending on how successful he is in leading the team to a winning season. God forbid he get's injured.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=GTripp0012;705602]Hicks almost certainly won't be a better RT than Heyer. Williams, on the other hand, probably can do about as well as post-probowl/end of career Samuels in his first year.[/quote]

I can't tell if your saying that Samuels was good or bad then, i guessing you're saying good right?

[quote=GTripp0012;705611]Hicks is a 31 year old failed right guard who still has a job because he's a system guy.

Heyer might not be adequate by most standards, but he's an NFL offensive tackle, at the very least. Guys like Mike Williams and Artis Hicks are just blocking others like Lichtensteigher/Rinehart/Fanaika/Edwin Williams/Heyer.[/quote]

I think describing Hicks as a failed RG is selling him short b/c Hicks can play all the OL positions except C. Over the past couple seasons he's played more OT then OG. I think its more accurate to describe him as a quality back-up swing OL.

I'm one of the few people in this forum that defends Heyer, mainly because he played most of last season with a major knee injury.
Prior to last Heyer was a quality OT.

But, if we're comparing Hicks to the injured Heyer from last year i think its safe to say that Hicks is an upgrade b/c Heyer was the 71st rated OT out of 77.

Then i think an underrated element in the upgrade along the OL is the coaching/teaching/scheme upgrade from Shanahan
+Bobby Turner/Forester.

I thought the offense looked much more capable when Bingo Lewis was calling then Zorn and that was with the same personnel, now we've upgraded the talent and the playbook.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=Longtimefan;705717]Donovan is going to be the most closely watched player we've traded for in a long while. The pressure he'll be under may or may not be justified, but it comes with the territory and the position he plays. Because he has been a combination of both success and failure, the scrunity will be heightened depending on how successful he is in leading the team to a winning season. [B]God forbid he get's injured.[/B][/quote]

From what I've heard so far on how the other QBs are doing during the OTAs...we're screwed...but it's early still...still time to get Chase Daniel back!

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=SmootSmack;705728]From what I've heard so far on how the other QBs are doing during the OTAs...we're screwed...but it's early still...still time to get Chase Daniel back![/quote]

That's the one thing a lot of people are concerned about, if Donovan goes down then what? Most people I talk too are certainly not enthused about Grossman being the #2 QB. I guess unless something unforeseen develops, it is what it is.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

I love our QB rotation. Each one knows how to get rid of the ball in a quick manner.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

^^ haha, you love rex grossman managing a game?? Unfortunately, I don't have your confidence.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=Longtimefan;705741]That's the one thing a lot of people are concerned about, if Donovan goes down then what? Most people I talk too are certainly not enthused about Grossman being the #2 QB. I guess unless something unforeseen develops, it is what it is.[/quote]

We still have Colt.

Re: Positive remark on McNabb
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;705993]^^ haha, you love rex grossman managing a game?? Unfortunately, I don't have your confidence.[/quote]

I think that Grossman is a great backup and Colt is a great 3rd stringer. This isn't a Pro Bowl game, you're not going to have 3 Hall of Famers as QB's.