Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5284871]Darrelle Revis of New York Jets sits out some plays to protest deal - ESPN New York[/url]

But the bigger story could be Logan Mankins, there'll be a story up on it soon but he's going to sign his tender today which could expedite his trade.

Mankins has said he doesn't want to play for the Pats anymore and wants to be traded, and the Pats apparently are willing to move him.

Re: Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

not sure how old mankins is but if the pats want a 2nd rounder and he's around 26 or so then i'd consider it.

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[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5285949]Logan Mankins says he wants to be traded from the New England Patriots - ESPN Boston[/url]

He's 28

Re: Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

also revis looks like a baby. if you don't want to practice then stay the hell home and cry to your agent about your contract. if you're going to get 12 mil a year for playing cornerback and you turn it down then you need to go bag groceries or something.

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Shanny, trade Portis for Revis & a 2nd rounder! :)

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Good player, that Logan Mankins. Hard to imagine him having as much success -- and as many pro bowls -- elsewhere as in New England. He has long been the best piece of a very competent line, along with a great technician in Dan Koppen at Center. Not too many other places he can go to the status quo.

The Broncos and Chiefs could be a destination, with the Chiefs being most likely.

Re: Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

I dont know anything about Mankins would he be an upgrade from what we have does any one have any info?

Re: Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

[quote=GTripp0012;706336]Good player, that Logan Mankins. Hard to imagine him having as much success -- and as many pro bowls -- elsewhere as in New England. He has long been the best piece of a very competent line, along with a great technician in Dan Koppen at Center. Not too many other places he can go to the status quo.

The Broncos and Chiefs could be a destination, with the Chiefs being most likely.[/quote]

So he is on the same level we have here

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[quote=warpaint;706341]So he is on the same level we have here[/quote]Well, he'd instantly be our best lineman, but I think we're already trying to develop Trent Williams in that role, so there's not a good reason to go out and grab a veteran in the role of line leader.

I mean, he'd be an easy fit at RG on this team, but our system is different than NEs, and he wouldn't really fix the problems on the line, so much as he would just upgrade a single position on the interior.

Re: Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

[quote=GTripp0012;706353][B]Well, he'd instantly be our best lineman,[/B] but I think we're already trying to develop Trent Williams in that role, so there's not a good reason to go out and grab a veteran in the role of line leader.

I mean, he'd be an easy fit at RG on this team, but our system is different than NEs, and he wouldn't really fix the problems on the line, so much as he would just upgrade a single position on the interior.[/quote]

If that would be the case I would have to go get him you have to, not for LT but I've got plenty of concern on the line. Shouldn't you put him next to Trent so you solidify the left side. Not only does it help Trent but it helps McNabb's blindside.

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[quote=warpaint;706338]I dont know anything about Mankins would he be an upgrade from what we have does any one have any info?[/quote]

It's time to develop some of our own players and save draft picks. One of the young guys is going to step up among Edwin Williams, Chad Rhinehart, Eric Cook, and Kory Lichtensteiger. Shanans history with offensive lineman favors this. In the meantime I'll venture that Big Mike could easily have a great year and we all know Dockery's going to be solid.

The main thing we have to worry about right now is the RT spot. Artis Hicks might be fine for this year however we're going to have to learn if Selvish Capers can develop to see weather or not a draft pick will need to be used on a RT in next years draft. Probably around the 3rd round.

At the very least though we now have depth so if injuries hit us again we won't have to go through the same train wreck we went through last year.

Re: Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;706363]It's time to develop some of our own players and save draft picks. One of the young guys is going to step up among Edwin Williams, Chad Rhinehart, Eric Cook, and Kory Lichtensteiger. In the meantime I'll venture that Big Mike could easily have a great year and we all know Dockery's going to be solid. The main thing we have to worry about right now is the RT spot. Artis Hicks might be fine for this year however we're going to have to learn if Selvish Capers can develop to see weather or not a draft pick will need to be used on a RT in next years draft. Probably around the 3rd round.[/quote]

Now this gives me comfort. I like your take on what we have right now. I agree with you on devolping our own guys. The thing that worries me is the RT also I'm not sold on M.Williams for some reason, its in my gut or something hopefully its just indigestion.

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At 28 I'd say we should pass. Not that 28 is too old for an guard but we have Rinehart sitting there and like Thomas and Kelly this guy either needs to become a starter now or find employment elsewhere in 2011.

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Revis was asked if he'd settle for $1 more than Asomugha. He smiled.

"It can be 50 cents more," he said. "Just give me 50 cents more and we'll be okay."

WHAT A DOUCHE. Just because you're the best that extra few million will make you happy?!

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[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;706374]Revis was asked if he'd settle for $1 more than Asomugha. He smiled.

"It can be 50 cents more," he said. "Just give me 50 cents more and we'll be okay."

WHAT A DOUCHE. Just because you're the best that extra few million will make you happy?![/quote]
Yeah that kind of stuff is wild. Instantly saying he's better after his 3 years and deserves more.. some teams have more money to put towards an individual position.

And with Mankins wanting something like Jahri Evans who gets like 8/year and 7/year isn't enough. Kind of wild, I guess when you're one of the best you can do that though.

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[quote=tryfuhl;706380]Yeah that kind of stuff is wild. Instantly saying he's better after his 3 years and deserves more.. some teams have more money to put towards an individual position.

And with Mankins wanting something like Jahri Evans who gets like 8/year and 7/year isn't enough. Kind of wild, I guess when you're one of the best you can do that though.[/quote]

Corners are becoming a dime a dozen. If you watch the NFL draft you know what I mean. 33 Corners were selected this year, most of any position. In fact to compare there were 38 Offensive lineman selected, thats guards, tackles, an centers combined. And that still pales in comparison to the 52 Defensive Backs selected.

Also last year 36 Corners were selected, most among all positions. 2008 - 30 Corners - 2nd highest behind Recievers at 35. 2007 - 30 Corners selected - 3rd highest position behind LB and Reciever. That makes 129 Corners selected since 2007. Most of any position.

Personally I don't get teams infatuation with Corners. I personally feel that a great safety does more for your team then an elite corner. Not to mention I would much rather prefer a strong defensive front that can dominate the line of scrimmage then a bunch of corners that have to cover for 5 or 6 seconds on every play.

I personally like the Bill Belicheck way of doing things. Build your team around guys who play closest to the line of scrimmage. Then worry about the secondary and receivers. Those premadonnas can wait awhile.

Though as a disclaimer I think part of my disdain comes from the selection of Los, Tryon, and Barnes. Tryon and Barnes because we needed lineman and Los because while he did end up being a quality player he still resulted in us passing on both Ware and Merriman, though these days I'm not to sad about passing up on Merriman. It remains to be seen if 56 owes a lot of his success to PED's.

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[quote=warpaint;706358]If that would be the case I would have to go get him you have to, not for LT but I've got plenty of concern on the line. Shouldn't you put him next to Trent so you solidify the left side. Not only does it help Trent but it helps McNabb's blindside.[/quote]Along the lines of what Dirtbag touched on, I'd say that you can upgrade that RG position without really making the overall product much better. A RT, on the other hand, could really improve the overall quality of the line because the current options are either Heyer, Capers, or playing someone out of position. Faced with that, if there's a <Jamaal Brown> available at a reasonable price, you can really help the whole unit on by grabbing him.

If you acquire a guard like Mankins, you have a veteran Center, a veteran left guard, a veteran right guard, all of whom are past the age where they have real upside, and you still have a bad line. Perhaps better than before him, but also not as good as it might have been if one of the younger guys really takes to the system and excels in the role, thereby making Dockery expendable.

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Though speak of what I said.. if Revis accepts less.. the next guy will have to.. and so on

not only does the highest paid position player set the tone but so do others

so when someone who shows up in Revis type fashion wants 15 or something they say well Revis only makes 13.. so you should get 11

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[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;706374]

WHAT A DOUCHE. Just because you're the best that extra few million will make you happy?![/quote]

He was good last year no doubt about it maybe the best last year but I still say the rest of the team helps him,he needs more then 3 years for me to give him that kind of money.

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[quote=Dirtbag359;706382]Corners are becoming a dime a dozen. If you watch the NFL draft you know what I mean. 33 Corners were selected this year, most of any position. In fact to compare there were 38 Offensive lineman selected, thats guards, tackles, an centers combined. And that still pales in comparison to the 52 Defensive Backs selected.

Also last year 36 Corners were selected, most among all positions. 2008 - 30 Corners - 2nd highest behind Recievers at 35. 2007 - 30 Corners selected - 3rd highest position behind LB and Reciever. That makes 129 Corners selected since 2007. Most of any position.

Personally I don't get teams infatuation with Corners. I personally feel that a great safety does more for your team then an elite corner. Not to mention I would much rather prefer a strong defensive front that can dominate the line of scrimmage then a bunch of corners that have to cover for 5 or 6 seconds on every play.

I personally like the Bill Belicheck way of doing things. Build your team around guys who play closest to the line of scrimmage. Then worry about the secondary and receivers. Those premadonnas can wait awhile.

Though as a disclaimer I think part of my disdain comes from the selection of Los, Tryon, and Barnes. Tryon and Barnes because we needed lineman and Los because while he did end up being a quality player he still resulted in us passing on both Ware and Merriman, though these days I'm not to sad about passing up on Merriman. It remains to be seen if 56 owes a lot of his success to PED's.[/quote]

I agree. BB learned from Parcells. You win with big people, not small ones. Tryon. Barnes and Los were not horrible picks but they certainly were not good ones either. And the stuff Merriman was taking doesn't make you a good football player. He's legit wheter he's on the juice or not. He's just been slowed by injuries but he's still a better football player than Rogers.

Re: Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;706382]Corners are becoming a dime a dozen. If you watch the NFL draft you know what I mean. 33 Corners were selected this year, most of any position. In fact to compare there were 38 Offensive lineman selected, thats guards, tackles, an centers combined. And that still pales in comparison to the 52 Defensive Backs selected.

Also last year 36 Corners were selected, most among all positions. 2008 - 30 Corners - 2nd highest behind Recievers at 35. 2007 - 30 Corners selected - 3rd highest position behind LB and Reciever. That makes 129 Corners selected since 2007. Most of any position.

[B]Personally I don't get teams infatuation with Corners.[/B] I personally feel that a great safety does more for your team then an elite corner. Not to mention I would much rather prefer a strong defensive front that can dominate the line of scrimmage then a bunch of corners that have to cover for 5 or 6 seconds on every play.

I personally like the Bill Belicheck way of doing things. Build your team around guys who play closest to the line of scrimmage. Then worry about the secondary and receivers. Those premadonnas can wait awhile.

Though as a disclaimer I think part of my disdain comes from the selection of Los, Tryon, and Barnes. Tryon and Barnes because we needed lineman and Los because while he did end up being a quality player he still resulted in us passing on both Ware and Merriman, though these days I'm not to sad about passing up on Merriman. It remains to be seen if 56 owes a lot of his success to PED's.[/quote]

Kinda simple when you think about it. It's a passing league now. Teams want/need at least 3 starting quality corners in order to compete with teams that are stacked 3-4 deep at WR.

There are different ways to build a D, but at the end of the day you still need guys that can cover regardless of your front 7.

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Mattyk, thing is it's your front 7 that makes your DB's.(IMO)Without a good front 7 those DB's will be going crazy(like the Giants last year) ,yeah they need to be good and I'm don't want to take away anything but when a DB doesn't have to worry about the run becuase he knows his guys up front can do it then he only needs to concentrate on the reciever.

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Yeah I get that, you still need quality guys in the secondary though. A great front 7 doesn't allow you to get away with garbage on the back end.

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Revis is demanding to be paid as the top-earning CB...after playing ONE season and being tied for 5th in interceptions?


Play out the contract you signed and earn your money, kid.

While a rookie pay scale is necessary, we also need to keep these greedy sophomores from demanding immediate pay raises after 16 games. Sure, total busts won't get rewarded with a pay scale, but I think a player should have to prove himself beyond one season to get top money in most cases.

So far, Revis is not proving to be worth paying with his selfishness in year #2.


As for Mankins...he has more of a case. He's a quality o-lineman and is probably worth more than $1.54 million that the Pats could be cutting his salary to. Tom Brady has stayed pretty clean over the years and Mankins is part of the reason why. (refs and the Commish help too)

Also, Bellichick and the New England organization has gained a reputation for not treating their own with a lot of respect over the years...from the "practice when you're injured" incidents to some shady deals being made (Cassell).

Re: Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

I'm not going to hate on Revis for wanting more money. He's had 3 great year, each year getting better (the interceptions are a bad measure of his talent because usually teams don't even throw in his direction). Yeah he signed a contract but just as easily as the Jets could drop him he can ask for more money.

If anything I'll hate on him showing up to half-ass the OTAs. If you're going to be there, be fully committed. Otherwise just sit at home and let your agent do his thing.

Re: Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

[quote=Buster;706521]Revis is demanding to be paid as the top-earning CB...after playing ONE season and being tied for 5th in interceptions?


Play out the contract you signed and earn your money, kid.

While a rookie pay scale is necessary, we also need to keep these greedy sophomores from demanding immediate pay raises after 16 games. Sure, total busts won't get rewarded with a pay scale, but I think a player should have to prove himself beyond one season to get top money in most cases.

So far, Revis is not proving to be worth paying with his selfishness in year #2.


As for Mankins...he has more of a case. He's a quality o-lineman and is probably worth more than $1.54 million that the Pats could be cutting his salary to. Tom Brady has stayed pretty clean over the years and Mankins is part of the reason why. (refs and the Commish help too)

Also, Bellichick and the New England organization has gained a reputation for not treating their own with a lot of respect over the years...from the "practice when you're injured" incidents to some shady deals being made (Cassell).[/quote]

In all fairness Revis has outplayed that contract and deserves a rasie cause front offices cut guys and all time. I agree with him getting a raise it's just his antics that really make him look like a tool. Just shut up and quit talking the media about it.

Regarding Mankins it's really a joke that a stalwart on a pretty damn good line is making 1.54 million. On the open market he'd command a lot more than that and if we had the draft picks I'd try and trade for him. He'd instantly solidify the RG position. I just don't understand organizations not wanting to reward guys that have paid their dues. I think Brady might see the writing on the wall and with his ties to the west coast I could see him wanting out. Brady would look real good in a SF uniform.

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"PAY the man"! (aka. Deion @ NFL Network)

On a side note, I wish we had drafted Revis instead of Landry.. Hindsight is always 20/20..

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[quote=ethat001;706590]"PAY the man"! (aka. Deion @ NFL Network)

On a side note, I wish we had drafted Revis instead of Landry.. Hindsight is always 20/20..[/quote]Yeah, I can't imagine that we were too far from actually making that decision in 2007. I'm thinking the team had Revis higher on their board that year than Amobi Okoye (who I wanted, and still would rather have had), and decided quite late that Landry was going to be everything the scouting report suggested.

He still might be. It's just that his first three years have been, at best, a mixed bag, while Revis is one of the three best [I]defensive players[/I] in football.

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Revis needs to get paid. If I were him I'd stay professional and simply tell the JETs pay me decent now and you won't have to pay me even more later.

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More big name holdouts, could be out until week 10 for Chargers:

[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d818acfd8/Bolts-holding-out]NFL Videos: Bolts holding out[/url]




This is getting ridiculous.

Re: Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

[quote=Buster;706869]More big name holdouts, could be out until week 10 for Chargers:

[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d818acfd8/Bolts-holding-out]NFL Videos: Bolts holding out[/url]




This is getting ridiculous.[/quote]

Chargers will be fine. Without Phillip Rivers throwing to him Vincent Jackson is a 700 yard receiver at best. They'll be more then fine with Malcolm Floyd as their #1 reciever along with Antonio Gates. Marcus McNeil's a bit more tricky but I'm sure they could survive with Tra Thomas.


[quote=Mattyk;706448]Yeah I get that, you still need quality guys in the secondary though. A great front 7 doesn't allow you to get away with garbage on the back end.[/quote]

Definitely need quality secondary guys, however I'm from the school of thought that an elite safety will do more for your defense then a corner ever could. Over the past few years we've seen guys like Polamalu, Bob Sanders, Darren Sharper, Brian Dawkins, Jarius Byrd, and Ed Reed almost single handily change games on the defensive side of the ball. I can't remember the last time I heard about Champ Bailey being a game changers. In fact the only corners I've heard over the past few years draw in large amounts of praise have been Revis and Nndami. I think it's safe to say the ballhawking safety has replaced the shutdown corner on defense.

I usually think that KC Joyner goes a little overboard with the numbers but sine this supports my point I'm going to go along with it.
[quote]KC Joyner
Jets have a system for success
"[Revis] is absolutely -- beyond a shadow of a doubt -- the best cornerback in the league, something backed up by his No. 1 ranking in the cornerback yards-per-attempt (YPA) numbers from the KC Joyner Metricmania section of ESPN's Fantasy Football Magazine. With that being said, it should also be noted which cornerback ranked No. 2 in YPA -- that was Revis' teammate Dwight Lowery. The Jets also placed a third cornerback, Lito Sheppard, in the top 20 in that category last year, thus making them the only team in the league to reach that statistical distinction. That alone indicates just how much the Rex Ryan scheme helps cornerbacks, but the Sheppard case is even more notable when looking at his coverage history prior to coming to New York. In the three years before joining Ryan's defense, Sheppard posted YPA marks of 13.0 (2008), 8.1 (2007) and 8.2 (2006)."
[/quote]

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[quote=Dirtbag359;706897]Chargers will be fine. Without Phillip Rivers throwing to him Vincent Jackson is a 700 yard receiver at best. They'll be more then fine with Malcolm Floyd as their #1 reciever along with Antonio Gates. Marcus McNeil's a bit more tricky but I'm sure they could survive with Tra Thomas.[/quote]Rivers and Jackson need each other to be elite, but it's not like he would have a Cutler season if he didn't have his no. 1 WR.

The only offense that VJ would be a 700 yd receiver in is one that runs the ball 550 times in a season.

Re: Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

I wonder how Jets could manage this kind of budget, along with other necessities such as extension with Ferguson, Mangold, and Harris..

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d818b57f9&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true]Report: Jets could make Revis highest-paid DB in history[/url]

Re: Revis and Mankins Not Happy
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;706371]At 28 I'd say we should pass. Not that 28 is too old for an guard but we have Rinehart sitting there and like Thomas and Kelly this guy either needs to become a starter now or find employment elsewhere in 2011.[/QUOT rinehart sucks we really have no depth at o line. mankins is pretty damn good i watched him play for fresno state we could trade fat albert.

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[quote=GridIron26;707123]I wonder how Jets could manage this kind of budget, along with other necessities such as extension with Ferguson, Mangold, and Harris..

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d818b57f9&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true]Report: Jets could make Revis highest-paid DB in history[/url][/quote]

Plus they have Cromartie in the secondary as well. I know his play has leveled off the last few years, but Ryan's system seems to be to Cornerbacks what Shanahan's system is to running backs. If anything Revis has little leverage right now. Right now the extensions to all three players you mentioned are more important than paying Revis's ego.

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Also I almost forgot, the Jet's also drafted Kyle Wilson with their first round pick. So when you factor in Cromartie, Lowery, and Wilson you realize how little leverage Revis has.