Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

Firing squad? I had no idea this was still used as a method of execution. Damn.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/2010/06/18/GA2010061802006.html?hpid=artslot]Firing squad executes convicted killer Ronnie Lee Gardner[/url]

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

old school, i like. i remember reading about him wanting it this way a while back. old school=good. hehe.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

A firing squad is abnormal as a method of execution. They only used it because he requested it.

We as a country need to wake up and abolish the death penalty. It is an expensive waste.

Note:
1) contrary to popular belief, the death penalty is more expensive. It costs about $750,000 to keep someone in maximum security for life, and maximum security protects society by keeping the murderer locked up. However, because of legal appeals, each death penalty case costs $3-4 million. So, for example, a recent study showed that Florida could save $51 million a year by abolishing the death penalty. The old argument that "I'm not gonna pay to keep a murderer alive" is financial nonsense. This is a big reason why New Jersey abolished the death penalty last year.

2) numerous studies have shown that the death penalty does not deter crime. Almost all of the states with the highest murder rates have the death penalty. Almost all of the states with the lowest murder rates do not have the death penalty.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

i disagree. i think some people are better off not existing on this planet anymore.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Lotus;707339]A firing squad is abnormal as a method of execution. They only used it because he requested it.

We as a country need to wake up and abolish the death penalty. It is an expensive waste.

Note:
1) contrary to popular belief, the death penalty is more expensive. It costs about $750,000 to keep someone in maximum security for life, and maximum security protects society by keeping the murderer locked up. However, because of legal appeals, each death penalty case costs $3-4 million. So, for example, a recent study showed that Florida could save $51 million a year by abolishing the death penalty. The old argument that "I'm not gonna pay to keep a murderer alive" is financial nonsense. This is a big reason why New Jersey abolished the death penalty last year.

2) numerous studies have shown that the death penalty does not deter crime. Almost all of the states with the highest murder rates have the death penalty. Almost all of the states with the lowest murder rates do not have the death penalty.[/quote]

Wrong Lotus. Being burned at the stake is cruel and unusual. George Washington had people executed by firing squad. It is still on the books today as is the gas chamber and hanging.

A bullet costs next to nothing. Letting criminals stay on death-row for years to appease bleeding hearts is expensive.

Rapist and murderers should all be shot! MF each and every one of them. Better yet, televise it too.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Big C;707347]i disagree. i think some people are better off not existing on this planet anymore.[/quote]

And you'd prefer to pay millions of dollars a year to keep that belief?

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;707351]Wrong Lotus. Being burned at the stake is cruel and unusual. George Washington had people executed by firing squad. [B]It is still on the books today as is the gas chamber and hanging. [/B]

A bullet costs next to nothing. Letting criminals stay on death-row for years to appease bleeding hearts is expensive.

Rapist and murderers should all be shot! MF each and every one of them. Better yet, televise it too.[/quote]

As for the firing squad, I wasn't saying anything different than you are. It is just not the usual, that's all.

As for "Letting criminals stay on death-row for years to appease bleeding hearts is expensive," as I have already shown, it is actually less expensive than executions.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Lotus;707354]As for the firing squad, I wasn't saying anything different than you are. It is just not the usual, that's all.

As for "Letting criminals stay on death-row for years to appease bleeding hearts is expensive," as I have already shown, it is actually less expensive than executions.[/quote]

Dude you're reaching.

Food, clothing, and shelter for years = $

Have the scum dig his own grave then shooting his ass = cheap and legal

You don't need to be a genius to get that.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Lotus;707339]A firing squad is abnormal as a method of execution. They only used it because he requested it.

We as a country need to wake up and abolish the death penalty. It is an expensive waste.

Note:
1) contrary to popular belief, the death penalty is more expensive. It costs about $750,000 to keep someone in maximum security for life, and maximum security protects society by keeping the murderer locked up. However, because of legal appeals, each death penalty case costs $3-4 million. So, for example, a recent study showed that Florida could save $51 million a year by abolishing the death penalty. The old argument that "I'm not gonna pay to keep a murderer alive" is financial nonsense. This is a big reason why New Jersey abolished the death penalty last year.

2) numerous studies have shown that the death penalty does not deter crime. Almost all of the states with the highest murder rates have the death penalty. Almost all of the states with the lowest murder rates do not have the death penalty.[/quote]

I'll back you up here. I don't support the death penalty either, but when the circumstances are right, I support vengeance killing.

My basic point of view is: we have made mistakes with the death penalty and have killed innocent people. Not cool with me that our government kills innocent people. Certainly not the way a free society should act, IMO.

I also think that lawyers are taught the n-Guilty men doctrine, which pretty much states that it is better for guilty men to go free than innocent men to be imprisoned. Maybe some Warpath lawyers can confirm/deny this.

As for vengeance killing -- if I witnessed somebody commit serious crimes against my family or loved ones, I might become enraged and kill them out of vengeance and I don't think I would be wrong for doing it -- or anyone else for that matter.

Just my $0.02

In any case, I saw an article about this guy before. Firing squad has been eliminated as a means for execution in the state of Utah. However, this guy and a few others had requested it before its elimination, and so they were "grandfathered" in. I've got to say, I like his style.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;707388]I'll back you up here. I don't support the death penalty either, but when the circumstances are right, I support vengeance killing.

My basic point of view is: we have made mistakes with the death penalty and have killed innocent people. Not cool with me that our government kills innocent people. Certainly not the way a free society should act, IMO.

I also think that lawyers are taught the n-Guilty men doctrine, which pretty much states that it is better for guilty men to go free than innocent men to be imprisoned. Maybe some Warpath lawyers can confirm/deny this.

As for vengeance killing -- if I witnessed somebody commit serious crimes against my family or loved ones, I might become enraged and kill them out of vengeance and I don't think I would be wrong for doing it -- or anyone else for that matter.

Just my $0.02

In any case, I saw an article about this guy before. Firing squad has been eliminated as a means for execution in the state of Utah. However, this guy and a few others had requested it before its elimination, and so they were "grandfathered" in. I've got to say, I like his style.[/quote]

Not many people are convicted in todays world without DNA evidence to convict them. I say when we are 100% sure we have the right person give them one appeal then death.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;707356]Dude you're reaching.

Food, clothing, and shelter for years = $

Have the scum dig his own grave then shooting his ass = cheap and legal

You don't need to be a genius to get that.[/quote]

Life in prison under maximum security = $750,000

Court costs for the state in a death penalty case = $3mil. to $4 mil.

Tramp, the math is easy on this one.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2702]Utah official gives execution go-ahead, then tweets - Yahoo! News[/url]

Not sure I'd be tweeting about this

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Lotus;707412]Life in prison under maximum security = $750,000

Court costs for the state in a death penalty case = $3mil. to $4 mil.

Tramp, the math is easy on this one.[/quote]

Poor thing. You're telling me the cost of beaucracy is justification for allowing pedophiles, rapists, and murderers to live off my dime.

Back before the criminals were allowed to shoot dope, lift weights, and sodomize each other all day, it costed nothing to house them. They worked on prison farms, in prison shops, or built roads on a chain-gang. If they got out of line they were put under the prison. 'Shaken the bush boss!"

It's not about the money. It's about justice. And don't give me all that jazz about innocent people getting convicted. More innocent people die every year on our highways than have ever been mistakenly executed by the criminal justice system. That's life!

I remember a scum-bag puke piece of shit illegal alien, who with the help of his buddies, gang raped two young girls and then strangled them with their own shoe strings. He confessed. So your financial arguement is out the window Lotus. I forgot what state executed the vermin filth? Maybe some of you remember?

All of you moralist will whistle a different tune when your wife, mother, or daughter is raped and strangled to death by an illegal alien.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Lotus;707352]And you'd prefer to pay millions of dollars a year to keep that belief?[/quote]

Total up the millions being spent on death row cases, divide it by the number of taxpayers in this country, and you're talking about a cost of no more than $1 per taxpayer per year.

Sometimes it's important to keep numbers in perspective. "Millions" is nothing when it comes to the US budget.

Yes, I'll gladly pay my $1 to see these people get what's coming.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;707424][B]Poor thing. You're telling me the cost of beaucracy is justification for allowing pedophiles, rapists, and murderers to live off my dime. [/B]

Back before the criminals were allowed to shoot dope, lift weights, and sodomize each other all day, it costed nothing to house them. They worked on prison farms, in prison shops, or built roads on a chain-gang. If they got out of line they were put under the prison. 'Shaken the bush boss!"

It's not about the money. It's about justice. And don't give me all that jazz about innocent people getting convicted. More innocent people die every year on our highways than have ever been mistakenly executed by the criminal justice system. That's life!

I remember a scum-bag puke piece of shit illegal alien, who with the help of his buddies, gang raped two young girls and then strangled them with their own shoe strings. He confessed. So your financial arguement is out the window Lotus. I forgot what state executed the vermin filth? Maybe some of you remember?

All of you moralist will whistle a different tune when your wife, mother, or daughter is raped and strangled to death by an illegal alien.[/quote]

No, I'm telling you that life in prison is off your dime. Execution is off your millions.

However, if you continue to applaud while the government squanders your tax dollar, so be it.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

I always hear about how much executions cost yady yada yada, but how much does it cost the taxpayer in the end? Probably not that much - and when it gets scum like John Allen Muhammad out of here, I don't mind paying it at all.

I guess it's more of an opinion to me, I'd pay the money to get a rapist murderer or anything along that line out of here, they have no meaning to life. Sure you can lock them away for life, but I'd rather pay for the death than to keep them alive, them and the other thousands that are serving life sentences, let alone them having a chance for getting out in 25 years on good behavior just makes me sick.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Schneed10;707441]Total up the millions being spent on death row cases, divide it by the number of taxpayers in this country, and you're talking about a cost of no more than $1 per taxpayer per year.

Sometimes it's important to keep numbers in perspective. "Millions" is nothing when it comes to the US budget.

Yes, I'll gladly pay my $1 to see these people get what's coming.[/quote]

My guess is that a school near you is firing teachers because there is not enough money. So let me put the equation this way: abolish the death penalty and provide better educations by keeping teachers on the job or keep killing people and provide worse educations because teachers must be fired.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=firstdown;707395]Not many people are convicted in todays world without DNA evidence to convict them. I say when we are 100% sure we have the right person give them one appeal then death.[/quote]

Dna gets screwed up all the time,the lab here in houston has fucked up so many cases its unreal.Also I watched a show the iother night and part of it was about some woman who had 4 kids and none of them matched her dna.So its pretty damn hard to be 100% sure.As far as the death penalty is concerned,I dont care if they keep it or do away with it

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;707424]It's not about the money. It's about justice. And don't give me all that jazz about innocent people getting convicted. More innocent people die every year on our highways than have ever been mistakenly executed by the criminal justice system. That's life!
[/quote]

Dude, you're smarter than this. Just because innocent people die every day doesn't justify killing them intentionally. Is-Ought Confusion.

[quote=Trample the Elderly;707424]All of you moralist will whistle a different tune when your wife, mother, or daughter is raped and strangled to death by an illegal alien.[/quote]

Another fallacy -- Appeal to Emotion maybe?

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Lotus;707449]My guess is that a school near you is firing teachers because there is not enough money. So let me put the equation this way: abolish the death penalty and provide better educations by keeping teachers on the job or keep killing people and provide worse educations because teachers must be fired.[/quote]
So....your ok with firing teachers to pay for "[B]housing[/B]" prisoners for life? OR did you just want to let em' all go so we can save that expense in order to hire more teachers?

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Hog1;707805]So....your ok with firing teachers to pay for "[B]housing[/B]" prisoners for life? OR did you just want to let em' all go so we can save that expense in order to hire more teachers?[/quote]

I say let 'em all go, and make them teach our kids.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Lotus;707449]My guess is that a school near you is firing teachers because there is not enough money. So let me put the equation this way: abolish the death penalty and provide better educations by keeping teachers on the job or keep killing people and provide worse educations because teachers must be fired.[/quote]

Public schools are largely supported by local real estate taxes, not the federal budget. Some of the poorer areas get supported by federal money. But my school district is doing fine, and that's all I give a rat's ass about.

Your point does not withstand. The millions we "waste" on the death penalty amounts to a drop in the bucket for even the poorest of Americans.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

The death penalty should be abolished for so many reasons. The cost, the hypocrisy of it, the fact that too many innocent people are wrongly put to death, etc. It's just barbaric. As a so called "civilized" society we should be better than this.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Lotus;707449]My guess is that a school near you is firing teachers because there is not enough money. So let me put the equation this way: abolish the death penalty and provide better educations by keeping teachers on the job or keep killing people and provide worse educations because teachers must be fired.[/quote]

Yea lets throw more money into a failing education system that spends more then any other country.

[url=http://www.oclc.org/reports/escan/economic/educationlibraryspending.htm]Worldwide education and library spending [OCLC][/url]

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Mattyk;708016]The death penalty should be abolished for so many reasons. The cost, the hypocrisy of it, the fact that too many innocent people are wrongly put to death, etc. It's just barbaric. As a so called "civilized" society we should be better than this.[/quote]Part of the state's authority in administering justice is to provide retribution to the victims and society in general. Someone rapes/murders my wife, sister or kills my son, godson, or niece, the state damn well better execute the SOB. If not, I'd do everything in my power to find a way to handle it.

The number of innocent people executed is extremely small and even smaller with today's better technology. What about the people who commit murder that would classify as a death penalty punishment, aren't they barbaric? A civilized society is ruled by laws, and violation of those laws requires punishment.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Mattyk;708016]The death penalty should be abolished for so many reasons. The cost, the hypocrisy of it, the fact that too many innocent people are wrongly put to death, etc. It's just barbaric. As a so called "civilized" society we should be better than this.[/quote]

So how many innocent people are wrongly put to death?

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;707830]I say let 'em all go, and make them teach our kids.[/quote]
Death Penalty? maybe
MAKE them teach our kids......to cruel even for me......

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=firstdown;708020]So how many innocent people are wrongly put to death?[/quote]

Isn't just one person one too many?

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution]Wrongful execution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Alot of good info on this site

[U][COLOR=#670100][url=http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/home]Death Penalty Information Center[/url][/COLOR][/U][URL="http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-and-death-penalty"][/URL]

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;708019]Part of the state's authority in administering justice is to provide retribution to the victims and society in general. Someone rapes/murders my wife, sister or kills my son, godson, or niece, the state damn well better execute the SOB. If not, I'd do everything in my power to find a way to handle it.

The number of innocent people executed is extremely small and even smaller with today's better technology. What about the people who commit murder that would classify as a death penalty punishment, aren't they barbaric? [B]A civilized society is ruled by laws, and violation of those laws requires punishment[/B].[/quote]

Murder is murder, period. Saying it's only justified as a punishment makes no sense to me at all. Yes, the act of murder should be punished. Life in prison is just fine. This eye for an eye bullshit however is absurd and caveman-esque thinking.

There are no statistics to show that the death penalty acts as a deterent and most families with a murdered family member report no feeling of satisfaction when their killer is put to death.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Mattyk;708028]Murder is murder, period. Saying it's only justified as a punishment makes no sense to me at all. Yes, the act of murder should be punished. Life in prison is just fine. This eye for an eye bullshit however is absurd and caveman-esque thinking.

[B]There are no statistics to show that the death penalty acts as a deterent[/B] and most families with a murdered family member report no feeling of satisfaction when their killer is put to death.[/quote]

Are you just making stuff up there are statistics

[url=http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html#deter]Pro Capital Punishment Page[/url]

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Mattyk;708028]Murder is murder, period. Saying it's only justified as a punishment makes no sense to me at all. Yes, the act of murder should be punished. Life in prison is just fine. This eye for an eye bullshit however is absurd and caveman-esque thinking.

There are no statistics to show that the death penalty acts as a deterent and [B]most families with a murdered family member report no feeling of satisfaction when their killer is put to death.[/B][/quote]You may want to read some of these victim statements. Is there satisfaction in watching a murderer die, of course not, because his death doesn't bring a loved one back.

[url=http://www.murdervictims.com/VictimImpact.htm]Victim Impact Statements[/url]
[B][SIZE=+0][/SIZE][/B]
"Justice will only be achieved when those who are not injured by crime, feel as indignant as those who are."
-King Solomon 635-577 BC

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=firstdown;708040]Are you just making stuff up there are statistics

[URL="http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html#deter"]Pro Capital Punishment Page[/URL][/quote]

Sure there are stats, but of course there's another side to the story

[url=http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/discussion-recent-deterrence-studies]Discussion of Recent Deterrence Studies | Death Penalty Information Center[/url]

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Lotus;707339]A firing squad is abnormal as a method of execution. They only used it because he requested it.

We as a country need to wake up and abolish the death penalty. It is an expensive waste.

Note:
1) contrary to popular belief, the death penalty is more expensive. It costs about $750,000 to keep someone in maximum security for life, and maximum security protects society by keeping the murderer locked up. However, because of legal appeals, each death penalty case costs $3-4 million. So, for example, a recent study showed that Florida could save $51 million a year by abolishing the death penalty. The old argument that "I'm not gonna pay to keep a murderer alive" is financial nonsense. This is a big reason why New Jersey abolished the death penalty last year.

2) numerous studies have shown that the death penalty does not deter crime. Almost all of the states with the highest murder rates have the death penalty. Almost all of the states with the lowest murder rates do not have the death penalty.[/quote]

While I don't disagree with you on your main point I would say your reasoning is the type of reasoning that will never ever result in the death penalty being really abolished.

1) As far as I know there isn't a large contingent of death penalty advocates who are for it simply because they think it's cheaper. Mostly because that is blatantly immoral. They're for it because they think the killers deserve it. A cost argument is completely lost on them.

2) Here you have presented a statistical fallacy. Or more accurately been presented a statistical fallacy that you then bought hook line and sinker. Most of these studies are woeful. They are conducted by biased organizations and done in a poorly devised economical analysis. Basically the studies don't actually study whether the death penalty is a quality deterrent...they study whether the death penalty eliminates murder. Subtle distinction. For example...none of the studies I know of have adequately addressed whether Fla actually has less murder because of the death penalty or not. For all we know the death penalty in Fla does the best job in preventing murder but it simply isn't good enough to actually eliminate it. Maybe without the death penalty the murder rate would sky rocket to crazy levels.

I would guess you and I would agree that on the face of it I can't see how the death penalty actually deters murder. It seems like basic common sense to me that if you are the type that is going to kill someone in a manner "deserving" of the death penalty then the threat of the death penalty is probably moot.

The best argument in my mind is that killing people for anything is just wrong. It is what we're trying to punish. Seems damn hypocritical and damn ironic to punish someone by doing to them what they did to somebody.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=FRPLG;708048]While I don't disagree with you on your main point I would say your reasoning is the type of reasoning that will never ever result in the death penalty being really abolished.

1) As far as I know there isn't a large contingent of death penalty advocates who are for it simply because they think it's cheaper. Mostly because that is blatantly immoral. They're for it because they think the killers deserve it. A cost argument is completely lost on them.

2) Here you have presented a statistical fallacy. Or more accurately been presented a statistical fallacy that you then bought hook line and sinker. Most of these studies are woeful. They are conducted by biased organizations and done in a poorly devised economical analysis. Basically the studies don't actually study whether the death penalty is a quality deterrent...they study whether the death penalty eliminates murder. Subtle distinction. For example...none of the studies I know of have adequately addressed whether Fla actually has less murder because of the death penalty or not. For all we know the death penalty in Fla does the best job in preventing murder but it simply isn't good enough to actually eliminate it. Maybe without the death penalty the murder rate would sky rocket to crazy levels.

I would guess you and I would agree that on the face of it I can't see how the death penalty actually deters murder. It seems like basic common sense to me that if you are the type that is going to kill someone in a manner "deserving" of the death penalty then the threat of the death penalty is probably moot.

[B]The best argument in my mind is that killing people for anything is just wrong. It is what we're trying to punish. Seems damn hypocritical and damn ironic to punish someone by doing to them what they did to somebody[/B].[/quote]

Pretty much what it boils down to for me.

Killing is wrong, end of story. There shouldn't be any exceptions.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Mattyk;708028]Murder is murder, period. Saying it's only justified as a punishment makes no sense to me at all. Yes, the act of murder should be punished. Life in prison is just fine. This eye for an eye bullshit however is absurd and caveman-esque thinking.

[B]There are no statistics to show that the death penalty acts as a deterent and most families with a murdered family member report no feeling of satisfaction when their killer is put to death.[/B][/quote]

This is accurate. There are no studies that truly quantify the effect of the death penalty as a deterrent. Either way. Again, common sense says it doesn't work though.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Mattyk;708028]Murder is murder, period. Saying it's only justified as a punishment makes no sense to me at all. Yes, the act of murder should be punished. Life in prison is just fine. This eye for an eye bullshit however is absurd and caveman-esque thinking.

There are no statistics to show that the death penalty acts as a deterent and most families with a murdered family member report no feeling of satisfaction when their killer is put to death.[/quote]

Murder = Killing an innocent

Killing = Is justified (like the hamburgers that you eat)

Life in prison is just fine with me too, under hard labor where I don't flip the bill. The only problem with that is, bleeding heart liberal assholes let them out and they do it all over again, and again, and again, etc. Life in prison is too good for a pedophile. They should be hung or shot. I'd do it myself if the police weren't in the way.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Mattyk;708050]Pretty much what it boils down to for me.

Killing is wrong, end of story. There shouldn't be any exceptions.[/quote]

God killed people in the Bible. So is God wrong?

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;708059]God killed people in the Bible. So is God wrong?[/quote]

LOL, yep.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

I was shocked that we still did this. They need to do more of this IMO. With today's DNA testing I find it hard to believe that innocent people would be put to death. People like John Allen Muhamed should be thrown in alligator pits. Now that would be a great way to stop people from killing innocent people.

I was watching TLC the other night and they have a piece on the Petit murders in Conn. These tow guys are still alive after they killled two children and the guys wife. F that! These two should be killed in the worst way possible. They should be tortured just like they tortured the victims.

Re: Utah killer executed by firing squad
 

I would not mind if they kept them in jail if they would bring them over and have them wash my cars, boat, cut my grass, trim the yard, and then take them back. If that won't happen then hang the suckers. We could do this at the city court yard on Friday nights and the city could make money selling beer and food. They could also sell rotted vegetables that we could throw at them as they are escorted in. The city could also sell lottery tickets to see who gets to pull the leaver. Then the city could drop them in some hole and send their family the bill.