Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[COLOR="SeaGreen"][SIZE="4"][B]Pluses[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]:[LIST=1][*]Obviously my boy Banks. He has get up...the kind we haven't seen and we desperately need to make not-so-special special team. And of course it doesn't hurt when the head coach praises your ability as a receiver during the post game conference.[*]Quickness of offensive line. I have never seen our offensive line move as fast. From quick snaps to their movements to the tempo of the entire offense.[*]Play calling was excellent despite the fact that it was a pre-season game. I was worried about K. Shanahan knowing what he is doing.[/LIST]

[COLOR="Sienna"][SIZE="4"][B]Minuses[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]:[LIST=1][*]I wasn't too pleased with the first team defense but I'm sure it will get better once Albert is plugged-in. Run defense looked ugly and that's all I'm going to say about that.[*]I have zero confidence in Carter's ability to play outside linebacker.[*]Kelley is a gonner. I don't see what he brings to the table and I really can't justify him being on the team.[*]Roger still sucks...if the Bills had a decent QB he would have given up a TD.[/LIST]

Anything you guys want to add?

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

Agreed on all counts. Did Kelly even play? I didn't notice him in the game at all, but I fell asleep midway through the 3rd quarter.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

Pluses:
Trent Williams. Been a long time since I've a pass rusher [B]more than[/B] adequately stoned [B]and[/B] on a consistent basis. Samuels was good until the end but he was on the decline since his knee was acting up on him almost every week.

Albert Haynesworth. Still needs a little discipline, but showing that he can take on the double teams and get penetration easily against the scrub Bills o-line. Also avoided a spectacle when the Bills player (deliberately or accidentally?) went after his knees.

McNabb - speaks for himself. Makes up for a bad series with a good one.

Sexy Rexy - Shows that he can be a competent backup.

CP - runs hard and quick.

Minuses
Last string o-linemen. Not as absolute terrible as the gold standard of turrible, D'Anthony Batiste, but they do not inspire confidence in the least.

Last string defense. Gashed by runs on numerous occasions. I know Rob Jackson was responsible for one of those.

Sexy Rexy - Shows that he too much of a gambler to call upon extended duty.

CP- Still runs "blind" sometimes.

Mystery
Ryan Torain - Runs upright and seemingly clumsily yet still managed big gains.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

Kelly has a hamstring injury people.

He didn't play in the game.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

^ story of his NFL career. Time to cut him loose

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=wilsowilso;720650]Kelly has a hamstring injury people.

He didn't play in the game.[/quote]

IMO he's a roster longshot at this point. Even when he's healthy enough to play, I think he's gonna be pretty out of shape.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

My Notables:

1) Second Team defense, in particular the front seven looked as good or better than First team. We should have quality depth. Redskins and depth? Say it ain't so!

2) [B][U]DL- [/U][/B] Kemoeatu, Carriker, Haynesworth, Daniels and Holliday played strong and solid. These guys are huge in size combined with their solid technique and play. Great to see our D-lineman playing with great technique again, they were penetrating and keeping blockers at bay. Golsten did a ok job, but his days as the starter might be numbered.

3) [B]LB - [/B] Orakpo and Fletcher look great. Carter and McIntosh not so good, they might need more time to get comfortable. Not giving up on them just yet. The good thing is 2nd teamers Lorenzo Alexander, Perry Riley and HB Blades all showed promise.
I would like to see the lineup of OLB's Orakpo and Alexander and ILB's Fletcher and Riley play together. Throw in Haynesworth for Golsten and we might have something special.

4) [B]Rb's -[/B]- Wow! What a surprise. Shanahan and Allen brought in some players.

5) [B]WR's - [/B]Same as 4 above.

6)[B] QB's [/B]- McNabb looked good for the short time we saw him. McNabb to Cooley might be heard a lot this year. Rexy had a mostly positive day except the for the two sure interception/pick 6 throws that landed in the DB's hands and they dropped it.

This was the Bills, possibly one of the worst teams in the NFL in 2010 and we need to temper this win and continue to improve.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=Defensewins;720655]

This was the Bills, possibly one of the worst teams in the NFL in 2010 and we need to temper this win and continue to improve.[/quote]

And that's what everyone needs to remember before they start chugging the Kool-Aid. We looked very solid in preseason game #1 against a downright awful team. I'm happy about the outcome, don't get me wrong, but I'm already over it and looking forward.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

Pluses:

McNabb as others have stated.

Trent Williams and Stephen Heyer ( yes I said it ) both looked good but the rookie is going to be a beast.

Albert Hanyesworth.

Brandon Banks has speed and acceration, and can add a dynamic to our return game that we have not had in a very long time.

The defense: made some nice adjustments once we got through that first series.

Chris Cooley and Fred Davis

The running game

#36 Darrel Young backup fulback made some really nice lead blocks for our backs


Minuses:

Defense against the running game

The 3rd String Defense

Rex looked good but at the same time made some bad throws that were 50% a time a pick 50% a good play. He almost threw 2 pick sixes, but was ok due to some bad angles by the defense.

John Beck was awful.

Didn't see anything from Dennis Morris #40

Terrance Austin did not do much of anything and I was expecting good things from him

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

Never have liked Carlos and don't think I ever will.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=GMScud;720654]IMO he's a roster longshot at this point. Even when he's healthy enough to play, I think he's gonna be pretty out of shape.[/quote]


Have to agree at this point. Too many intriguing newbies at the WR position for him to survive. He has to step it up bigtime or he is gone.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=GMScud;720656]And that's what everyone needs to remember before they start chugging the Kool-Aid. We looked very solid in preseason game #1 against a downright awful team. I'm happy about the outcome, don't get me wrong, but I'm already over it and looking forward.[/quote]

That just about sums it up. There were a few noteworthy performances which was good for the first preseason game. Next weeks opponent will provide more of a challenge towards determining where the team needs to improve. Not diminishing the performance against the Bills, it's just difficult to guage where you really are against a team like that.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=GMScud;720654]IMO he's a roster longshot at this point. Even when he's healthy enough to play, I think he's gonna be pretty out of shape.[/quote]I think coach really WANTS to keep Kelly on the roster, but honestly, if he doesn't show well in the preseason (or more accurately, show at all), I do not think he makes it out of camp to the 53 man roster.

Kelly's the kind of guy who will get a legit shot elsewhere in 2011, but we wouldn't be wrong to finally give up on a guy who can't keep himself on the field.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

I saw Rinehart play his way off the team, other than that its all good

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;720689]I think coach really WANTS to keep Kelly on the roster, but honestly, if he doesn't show well in the preseason (or more accurately, show at all), I do not think he makes it out of camp to the 53 man roster.

Kelly's the kind of guy who will get a legit shot elsewhere in 2011, but we wouldn't be wrong to finally give up on a guy who can't keep himself on the field.[/quote]

I really would like to see him stick around, but he's going to have to work extremely hard and show once he returns to practice. Hopefully he'll have some opportunities in the next three preseason games to convince coaches he deserves a roster spot. There's a little saying they have going now.....you can't make the club if you're always in the tub.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=Longtimefan;720692]I really would like to see him stick around, but he's going to have to work extremely hard and show once he returns to practice. Hopefully he'll have some opportunities in the next three preseason games to convince coaches he deserves a roster spot. There's a little saying they have going now.....[B][I]you can't make the club if you're always in the tub.[/quote][/I][/B]

Exactly. Time to cut bait and accept that draft pick as busted. Sucks, but the longer we have him around, the longer one of our other WR's don't know their role on this team. Cut him loose, and solidify our WR corps soon, and let them battle it out for the spots, knowing they will be on the squad, and let them build a rapport with each other. Having dead injured bodies in there does nothing but take time away from other suitable prospects and also takes time away from the trainers that they could be using for another guy that isn't gonna be cut in the end.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=saden1;720642][COLOR=SeaGreen][SIZE=4][B]Pluses[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]:[LIST=1][*]Obviously my boy Banks. He has get up...the kind we haven't seen and we desperately need to make not-so-special special team. And of course it doesn't hurt when the head coach praises your ability as a receiver during the post game conference.[*]Quickness of offensive line. I have never seen our offensive line move as fast. From quick snaps to their movements to the tempo of the entire offense.[*]Play calling was excellent despite the fact that it was a pre-season game.[I][B] I was worried about K. Shanahan knowing what he is doing.[/B][/I][/LIST]

[COLOR=Sienna][SIZE=4][B]Minuses[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]:[LIST=1][*]I wasn't too pleased with the first team defense but I'm sure it will get better once Albert is plugged-in. Run defense looked ugly and that's all I'm going to say about that.[*]I have zero confidence in Carter's ability to play outside linebacker.[*]Kelley is a gonner. I don't see what he brings to the table and I really can't justify him being on the team.[*]Roger still sucks...if the Bills had a decent QB he would have given up a TD.[/LIST]

Anything you guys want to add?[/quote]

Seriously? You didn't think Kyle would know what he was doing? The guy was the O coordinator of one of the best offenses last year! He is arguably a top 5 O coordinator.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;720690]I saw Rinehart play his way off the team, other than that its all good[/quote]

What I saw from RG Rinehart (#77) was solid. Maybe you've mistaken for RT Oldenburg (#68).

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=Longtimefan;720688]That just about sums it up. There were a few noteworthy performances which was good for the first preseason game. Next weeks opponent will provide more of a challenge towards determining where the team needs to improve. Not diminishing the performance against the Bills, it's just difficult to guage where you really are against a team like that.[/quote]

Preseason game #3 vs. the Jets when the starters will play a lot of the game... now that will be a serious test. Especially for our offense. Their D is lights out, even without Revis. I'd love to cram a win down Rex Ryan's big fat pie hole.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

Kelly still has the second best hands on the team behind Cooley. He has to be given another year to get on the field and produce.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=saden1;720642][COLOR="SeaGreen"][SIZE="4"][B]Pluses[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]:[LIST=1][*]Obviously my boy Banks. He has get up...the kind we haven't seen and we desperately need to make not-so-special special team. And of course it doesn't hurt when the head coach praises your ability as a receiver during the post game conference.[*]Quickness of offensive line. I have never seen our offensive line move as fast. From quick snaps to their movements to the tempo of the entire offense.[*]Play calling was excellent despite the fact that it was a pre-season game. I was worried about K. Shanahan knowing what he is doing.[/LIST]

[COLOR="Sienna"][SIZE="4"][B]Minuses[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]:[LIST=1][*]I wasn't too pleased with the first team defense but I'm sure it will get better once Albert is plugged-in. Run defense looked ugly and that's all I'm going to say about that.
[B][*]I have zero confidence in Carter's ability to play outside linebacker.[/B][*]Kelley is a gonner. I don't see what he brings to the table and I really can't justify him being on the team.[*]Roger still sucks...if the Bills had a decent QB he would have given up a TD.[/LIST]

Anything you guys want to add?[/quote]

When I think of Carter's pass coverage skills, I have to look at other 3-4 OLBs around the league and thier abilities. The first one that comes to mind is DALs Ware. He absolutely sucks in this regards. People are concerned when Carter will have to cover Witten, Cooley has abused Ware just as bad. The strategy using the 3-4 and 4-3 zone blitzes is to mix it up so the opposing QB doesn't know who's coming or who's covering. Both Ware and Carter dropped into coverage last year and were mismatched. Who cares when you're posting double digit sacks? Orakpo was burned too. And?

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=diehard;720715]Kelly still has the second best hands on the team behind Cooley. He has to be given another year to get on the field and produce.[/quote]


Why? Thomas looks like he is going to produce this season thus far. If Kelly comes in and goes gangbusters in the next few weeks keep him.
If he doesn't do all that much ship him out. If he even gets hurt once more(preseason) I think he is toast. We had another guy like him that supposedly showed promise and that was Taylor Jacobs, who was an absolute waste of space for the 4 years we kept him. I don't question Malcolm's ability as a pass catcher, just his ability to stay on the field for most of a season. We have many promising young Wrs that thus far can stay on the field.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=saden1;720642][COLOR=seagreen][SIZE=4][B]Pluses[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]:[LIST=1][*]Obviously my boy Banks. He has get up...the kind we haven't seen and we desperately need to make not-so-special special team. And of course it doesn't hurt when the head coach praises your ability as a receiver during the post game conference.[*]Quickness of offensive line. I have never seen our offensive line move as fast. From quick snaps to their movements to the tempo of the entire offense.[*]Play calling was excellent despite the fact that it was a pre-season game. I was worried about K. Shanahan knowing what he is doing.[/LIST]

[COLOR=sienna][SIZE=4][B]Minuses[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]:[LIST=1][*]I wasn't too pleased with the first team defense but I'm sure it will get better once Albert is plugged-in. Run defense looked ugly and that's all I'm going to say about that.[*]I have zero confidence in Carter's ability to play outside linebacker.[*]Kelley is a gonner. I don't see what he brings to the table and I really can't justify him being on the team.[*]Roger still sucks...if the Bills had a decent QB he would have given up a TD.[/LIST]
Anything you guys want to add?[/quote]

1. Trent. W. seemed to play pretty well. He looks very athletic.
2. Are you really surprised that Carter looked out of place? He's simply not an 3-4 outside LB and they should never put him in coverage.
3. Kelly didn't play but does anyone think if he plays full time that his body is going to hold up over 16 games? It's time to move on.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=GMScud;720656]And that's what everyone needs to remember before they start chugging the Kool-Aid. We looked very solid in preseason game #1 against a downright awful team. I'm happy about the outcome, don't get me wrong, but I'm already over it and looking forward.[/quote]


Totally agree GM, we looked pretty sharp for game #1, but we will see how we do against the Ravens and get a real gauge on how we stack up to the so called contenders. IF we really do well against the Ravens we will do rather well, barring serious injuries.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;720722]Why? Thomas looks like he is going to produce this season thus far. If Kelly comes in and goes gangbusters in the next few weeks keep him.
If he doesn't do all that much ship him out. If he even gets hurt once more(preseason) I think he is toast. We had another guy like him that supposedly showed promise and that was Taylor Jacobs, who was an absolute waste of space for the 4 years we kept him. I don't question Malcolm's ability as a pass catcher, just his ability to stay on the field for most of a season. We have many promising young Wrs that thus far can stay on the field.[/quote]

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

What I didn't like:

our defense gave up some big yards and plays on the BILLS opening drive.

carter starting at OLB; when Lorenzo should.

Albert Haynesworth not in the starting lineup.

the fact that our starting WR's ages are 31 and 38 years old.

Terrence Austin didn't do well Banks 1 Austin 0

Dennis Morris; didn't hear his name called once.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;720689]I think coach really WANTS to keep Kelly on the roster, but honestly, if he doesn't show well in the preseason (or more accurately, show at all), I do not think he makes it out of camp to the 53 man roster.

Kelly's the kind of guy who will get a legit shot elsewhere in 2011, but we wouldn't be wrong to finally give up on a guy who can't keep himself on the field.[/quote]

Agreed fully... could IR him I guess if wanting to keep him around

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;720742]What I didn't like:

our defense gave up some big yards and plays on the BILLS opening drive.

carter starting at OLB; when Lorenzo should.

Albert Haynesworth not in the starting lineup.

the fact that our starting WR's ages are 31 and 38 years old.

Terrence Austin didn't do well Banks 1 Austin 0

Dennis Morris; didn't hear his name called once.[/quote]love the one man gang but I doubt that you're in any position to make the depth call at LOLB.. media hype and coaching praise, while I'm sure much deserved, doesn't mean you're the best. It wouldn't surprise me to see Renzo start this week.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=diehard;720715]Kelly still has the second best hands on the team behind Cooley. He has to be given another year to get on the field and produce.[/quote]

What he needs to do is get back on the damn field to prove his worth. He's definitely going to be on the bubble the way he's going right now.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;720795]What he needs to do is get back on the damn field to prove his worth. He's definitely going to be on the bubble the way he's going right now.[/quote]

Even I'm about ready to move on if needed at this point. How long can a damn hamstring linger? It wasn't even a full pull right? They need to do some blood work and see if the kid is deficient in certain minerals/nutrients if they haven't already.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

Is there a vitamin you can take for being a bitch?

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=Angry;720801]Is there a vitamin you can take for being a bitch?[/quote]

I'm sure he'd be out there if he could. You don't think the kid knows he could get cut?

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

Not making excuses for Kelly but hamstrings can be tough. They are very prone to re-injury if you're not careful.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=tryfuhl;720803]I'm sure he'd be out there if he could. You don't think the kid knows he could get cut?[/quote]

That is exactly why he needs to suck it up and play. I understand that Shannahan said that he doesn't want him to set himself back but after 2 weeks of a non serious injury, he has to gut it out and at least try to do something.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;720804]Not making excuses for Kelly but hamstrings can be tough. They are very prone to re-injury if you're not careful.[/quote]

See Day 1 of TC for an example.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

[quote=Angry;720805]That is exactly why he needs to suck it up and play. I understand that Shannahan said that he doesn't want him to set himself back but after 2 weeks of a non serious injury, he has to gut it out and at least try to do something.[/quote]

Last time he did that he put himself into this current situation, no?

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

He doesn't run fast enough to pull a hamstring.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

Finish your coffee bro haha

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

Shanahan said he hopes that Kelly can return to practice tomorrow, we'll see.

Re: Pluses and Minuses: Bills vs Redskins
 

Hamstrings aren't something you can just suck it up and play through, he needs to be out there no doubt, but at the same time he needs to be right physically.