The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[YT]n-OE1a3VP-E[/YT]

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

wonder why the taping vehicle was approaching so quickly

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

Watch his shoes.

I don't really blame the driver...he may have been going a little fast but that scooter driver didn't appear to look over once before moving over, didn't see a turn signal...plus it's debatable that a scooter with a low max speed should be allowed to be on a major highway. Most of them have a top speed of about 40MPH.

I do wonder why he was taping, unless it's a cop car. I just noticed a car being towed at the beginning of the video.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

That was great Ihave want to do that quit a few times. Esepically to the dirt bikes in B-more!

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

Where's Scneed10? He needs to see this.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

lol my first reply was going to be "if only schneed had been there.."

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=tryfuhl;721561]lol my first reply was going to be "if only schneed had been there.."[/quote]
...he would have gotten out of the car and beaten the scooter guy with his own shoes.


Since the scooter guy (at fault) was obviously not killed, it's OK to laugh, right?

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

Looked to me that scooter-guy (and I use the term "guy" loosely) was entirely at fault AND lucky to be alive.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

I don't know if scooter guy hit the brakes or the vehicle was approaching that quickly

it's absurd to neglect to mention their contribution to the accident

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

scooter guy was changing lanes - it's on him to make sure he can do so safely. While car two may have driving fast, he isn't at fault unless he was driving so fast as to be reckless. It didn't appear to me that the first driver was being reckless.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

greatly exceeding the speed of surrounding vehicles isn't reckless?

no doubt that scooter guy should've made sure he could secure his position in the lane though

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

Didn't appear he was "greatly exceeding" from my point of view. He was accelerating after traffic slowed down for the accident.

But don't take my word on it - I just do auto torts as part of my job. Not like I have any experience in it.

It was the scooter-guys fault.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

The guy in the car seemed to be going a little fast for the right lane, but the scooter dude obviously wasn't careful enough when changing lanes. Still, seems that there was enough time to slow down to avoid hitting him.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

Alright, we'll agree to disagree that he was greatly exceeding the speed of surrounding traffic. And ultimately yes it is scooter guy's fault by law. No need to continue to get salty and hrrumph about things man.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;721586]Didn't appear he was "greatly exceeding" from my point of view. He was accelerating after traffic slowed down for the accident.

But don't take my word on it - I just do auto torts as part of my job. Not like I have any experience in it.

[B]It was the scooter-guys fault[/B].[/quote]

100% though?

I've got my no-fault hat on, thinking that the driver had more than enough time to slow down to avoid hitting him. Scooter guy is more to blame, but not 100%.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

I mean who tapes just regular driving? They were clearly camming their driving behavior for good or bad. It's pretty common to see these types of vids, the approach to the greater mass of traffic while leaving the others in the dust is somewhat damning.

I need to rewatch to see if scooter guy hit his brakes because it almost seems as if he did.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=tryfuhl;721596]I mean who tapes just regular driving? They were clearly camming their driving behavior for good or bad. It's pretty common to see these types of vids, the approach to the greater mass of traffic while leaving the others in the dust is somewhat damning.

I need to rewatch to see if scooter guy hit his brakes because it almost seems as if he did.[/quote]

Yeah scooter guy does hit his breaks right before he gets hit. Could be staged.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=Mattyk;721599]Yeah scooter guy does hit his breaks right before he gets hit. Could be staged.[/quote]
I don't know if I'd be quick to call it staged.. but definitely a bone-headed reaction

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=tryfuhl;721602]I don't know if I'd be quick to call it staged.. but definitely a bone-headed reaction[/quote]

Yep could easily be that too

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

Watched it several times, I still think this is all on scooter guy. The car is just not going that fast - listen to the gear shift. It happens only once, meaning he is in 3rd or 4th gear given how slow he was going through the accident zone. He passed a couple trucks and a bus, but they wouldn't accelerate as fast as anyway. Scooter-guy was moving around (after tail-gating actually) a slow moving car.

The driver also was clearly braking as soon as scooter guy moved over AND came to a stop quickly. Watch, from the time scooter guy moves over to complete stop is less than two light poles. If the driver had been going at a "reckless speed", scooter guy would have been under his car before coming to a stop.

Scooter guy didn't signal, and cut off a car that had the right of way. The more I watched it, the more clear it was scooter guy at fault all the way.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;721605]Watched it several times, I still think this is all on scooter guy. The car is just not going that fast - listen to the gear shift. It happens only once, meaning he is in 3rd or 4th gear given how slow he was going through the accident zone. He passed a couple trucks and a bus, but they wouldn't accelerate as fast as anyway. Scooter-guy was moving around (after tail-gating actually) a slow moving car.

The driver also was clearly braking as soon as scooter guy moved over AND came to a stop quickly. Watch, from the time scooter guy moves over to complete stop is less than two light poles. If the driver had been going at a "reckless speed", scooter guy would have been under his car before coming to a stop.

Scooter guy didn't signal, and cut off a car that had the right of way. The more I watched it, the more clear it was scooter guy at fault all the way.[/quote]
I think it's a manual based on the shift sound.. so gear selection is on the driver.

driver did brake early and we'd have to know more about actual speeds and the braking system of the vehicle before we speculated that the scooter guy would've been under the car

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;721605]Watched it several times, I still think this is all on scooter guy. The car is just not going that fast - listen to the gear shift. It happens only once, meaning he is in 3rd or 4th gear given how slow he was going through the accident zone. He passed a couple trucks and a bus, but they wouldn't accelerate as fast as anyway. Scooter-guy was moving around (after tail-gating actually) a slow moving car.

The driver also was clearly braking as soon as scooter guy moved over AND came to a stop quickly. Watch, from the time scooter guy moves over to complete stop is less than two light poles. If the driver had been going at a "reckless speed", scooter guy would have been under his car before coming to a stop.

Scooter guy didn't signal, and cut off a car that had the right of way. The more I watched it, the more clear it was scooter guy at fault all the way.[/quote]

The car driver has an obligation to do everything he can to avoid hitting the scooter, I'm not convinced he did that. I think he had enough time to avoid hitting him. I would say 75/25, scooter guy at fault

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

that's twice now matty!

brake!

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

You guys are funny. You bitch about arguing politics but you guys are arguing over a wreck that happened in another country on the internet. OK maybe we now need a section for accidents on youtube.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[QUOTE=tryfuhl;721614]I think it's a manual based on the shift sound.. so gear selection is on the driver.

driver did brake early and we'd have to know more about actual speeds and the braking system of the vehicle [B]before we speculated that the scooter guy would've been under the car[/B][/QUOTE]

fair enough, but you are speculating that all the traffic around driver was already at the speed limit and that the driver was exceeding it. I am suggesting that isn't what the video shows. As long as the driver was at or near the speed limit, scooter guy has no right to enter the lane until he can do so safely and without disrupting the flow of traffic. He didn't do either.

Quite frankly, I don't think the video gives any evidence of reckless driving by the car's driver. He was cut off, he braked as soon as he was presented by the disturbance in his lane and came to a stop quickly.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;721623]fair enough, but you are speculating that all the traffic around driver was already at the speed limit and that the driver was exceeding it. I am suggesting that isn't what the video shows. As long as the driver was at or near the speed limit, scooter guy has no right to enter the lane until he can do so safely and without disrupting the flow of traffic. He didn't do either.

Quite frankly, I don't think the video gives any evidence of reckless driving by the car's driver. He was cut off, he braked as soon as he was presented by the disturbance in his lane and came to a stop quickly.[/quote]

not once did I say that they were at the speed limit or not continuing to accelerate, I only said that their approach was exceeding the speed of the surrounding vehicles

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=Mattyk;721617]The car driver has an [B]obligation to do everything he can to avoid hitting the scooter,[/B] I'm not convinced he did that. I think he had enough time to avoid hitting him. I would say 75/25, scooter guy at fault[/quote]

Everything [I]reasonable [/I]- which means he doesn't have to put his or anyone else's life in danger. Could he have swerved? maybe. But if he goes right, what if scooter continues that way? Could he swerve left? dunno, maybe scooter guy goes that way to avoid, or there is a car approaching from behind. He was presented with an unreasonable and unexpected condition by scooter guy. He can't alter the time space continuim to stop on a dime and he doesn't have to be omniscient so that he can know what jerk move the scooter guy will do next.

I'll give you 95-5 but not much more than that - and only that grudgingly.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

I think that the car did mostly what it could've done given the circumstances. I think that they also contributed to the circumstances however.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=tryfuhl;721625]not once did I say that they were at the speed limit or not continuing to accelerate, I only said that their approach was exceeding the speed of the surrounding vehicles[/quote]

Well, if he wasn't exceeding the speed limit, and was, while staying in his lane, simply accelerating to the limit faster than those in other lanes, he clearly was not "reckless". Not like he was racing or swerving through traffic. If he was not to the speed limit, he had a clear path to accelerate, was free to do so AND scooter guy should have anticipated that.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

Excessive acceleration is against traffic code in many areas.. not sure about where they're at. It could also be grouped into the category of "careless driving/operation of vehicle."

I've never really heard the you have the right to approach the speed limit as quickly as you'd like defense. Of course this is all assuming that they were still under the limit and that everyone else was just going painstakingly slowly following the previous incident.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=tryfuhl;721636]Excessive acceleration is against traffic code in many areas.. not sure about where they're at. It could also be grouped into the category of "careless driving/operation of vehicle."

I've never really heard the you have the right to approach the speed limit as quickly as you'd like defense. Of course this is all assuming that they were still under the limit.[/quote]

Its a freaking different country so maybe the right lane was the fast lane there.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=firstdown;721637]Its a freaking different country so maybe the right lane was the fast lane there.[/quote]
common sense should tell you to not differ from your surroundings at such a rate regardless of your country

don't tell me you guys have never watched a video on youtube being filmed from a car having a lil fun out there

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=tryfuhl;721628]I think that the car did mostly what it could've done given the circumstances. I think that [B]they also contributed to the circumstances however[/B].[/quote]

How? By accelerating in an open lane of traffic? It's not like they were still in the accident zone - they were clearly past it. You can feel however you want about it, but I just don't see any facts that back up your opinion.

You conceed that:
Driver was not exceeding speed limit;
Driver began braking as soon as he was presented by the scooter guys move;
Scooter guy [I]braked[/I] after switching lanes;
Driver did all he could do to avoid the accident.

What facts support the position that the driver contrib'd? The only thing you've said is that he was travelling faster than traffic around him which, in an open lane of traffic, he is free to do especially when he is not exceeding the speed limit.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

last clear chance to avoid an accident. if this driver was driving at or below the posted speed limit then he should have had enough time to brake safely.

there is also the issue of contributory neg if this was in MD.

also, considering the circumstances of why traffic was slowed or stopped, accelerating in that situation wasnt the smartest decision.

honestly to me it looked like the driver knew the scooter guy was coming over but didnt want to slow down, choosing to get up on his ass and try and close the window, then when the scooter guy braked, collision occurred.

i mean, who wants a freakin scooter changing lanes in front of you when you lane is clear for take off?

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=over the mountain;721641]last clear chance to avoid an accident. if this driver was driving at or below the posted speed limit then he should have had enough time to brake safely.

there is also the issue of contributory neg if this was in MD.

also, considering the circumstances of why traffic was slowed or stopped, accelerating in that situation wasnt the smartest decision.

honestly to me it looked like the driver knew the scooter guy was coming over but didnt want to slow down, choosing to get up on his ass and try and close the window, then when the scooter guy braked, collision occurred.

i mean, who wants a freakin scooter changing lanes in front of you when you lane is clear for take off?[/quote]

Well said, good post

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;721639]How? By accelerating in an open lane of traffic? It's not like they were still in the accident zone - they were clearly past it. You can feel however you want about it, but I just don't see any facts that back up your opinion.

You conceed that:
Driver was not exceeding speed limit;
Driver began braking as soon as he was presented by the scooter guys move;
Scooter guy [I]braked[/I] after switching lanes;
Driver did all he could do to avoid the accident.

What facts support the position that the driver contrib'd? The only thing you've said is that he was travelling faster than traffic around him which, in an open lane of traffic, he is free to do especially when he is not exceeding the speed limit.[/quote]

I did not concede* that the driver was not exceeding the speed limit. Lot of words you're putting in there for me.

Ultimately when it comes down to 1 vs 2 (2 being the scooter) it would get written as 2's fault.

Again, we're still assuming that the speed limit was being followed. You can be cited for accelerating/endangerment, etc without exceeding the speed limit.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=tryfuhl;721636][B]Excessive acceleration [/B]is against traffic code in many areas.. not sure about where they're at. It could also be grouped into the category of "careless driving/operation of vehicle."

I've never really heard the you have the right to approach the speed limit as quickly as you'd like defense. Of course this is all assuming that they were still under the limit and that everyone else was just going painstakingly slowly following the previous incident.[/quote]

Sorry, I just think we are going to have to disagree that his acceleration was "excessive". He passed a some trucks and a bus. Not clear evidence of excessive to me.

It's not that he has the right to approach the speed limit "as quickly as he would like to". It's that, from the video, other than passing a few trucks, nothing shows him accelerating in a reckless manner. He[I] does [/I]have the absolute right to accelerate to speed without unexpected, unsignaled obstructions.

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;721626]Everything [I]reasonable [/I]- which means he doesn't have to put his or anyone else's life in danger. Could he have swerved? maybe. But if he goes right, what if scooter continues that way? Could he swerve left? dunno, maybe scooter guy goes that way to avoid, or there is a car approaching from behind. He was presented with an unreasonable and unexpected condition by scooter guy. He can't alter the time space continuim to stop on a dime and he doesn't have to be omniscient so that he can know what jerk move the scooter guy will do next.

I'll give you 95-5 but not much more than that - and only that grudgingly.[/quote]

He didn't need to swerve, he just needed to be a little less lackadaisical with the brakes. Unless he had someone right on his ass, he could/should have slammed on the brakes harder.

Does it really appear to you that he did everything he could to stop?

Re: The Parking Lot...where scooters should stay.
 

I think we need to toss the speed limit out the window, if he was driving too fast for the current conditions on the road, it doesn't matter if he was breaking the limit or not.

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Going back it seems as if the vehicle did not brake as soon as he should have, hard to say not being in the incident though.

You've seriously got to be messing with me on the acceleration part. Was traffic defense part of your early lawyer days? Can you step outside of your thinking and even believe what you're saying?