Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5518992]Sources: Two trades being monitored by NFLPA - ESPN[/url]

[QUOTE]The NFL Players Association is monitoring a little-known "85-percent rule" in 2010 after two minor trades this week involving rookie players were made, according to union and league sources.

Under the rule, which is only applicable in an uncapped year, any drafted rookie that is cut by his team is guaranteed 85 percent of his first-year minimum-wage $310,000 salary.

However, the union believes the Redskins and Rams circumvented the rule when they exchanged rookie players in separate transactions earlier this week. The Redskins traded rookie tight end/fullback Dennis Morris to the Rams for a future conditional draft pick; the Redskins then acquired rookie linebacker Hall Davis, also for a conditional draft pick.[/QUOTE]

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

so the redskins and rams engaged in a sham trade with the sole purpose of each team saving less than 300k each?

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Absolutely not.

They're BOTH players unlikely to make rosters of either team...so why not accuse the Rams also?

If Morris gets cut...both teams end up even...no compensatory picks OR acquired players.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

That's not a lot of money by league standards. Ok, pay them their $310K.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=Buster;726439]Absolutely not.

They're BOTH players unlikely to make rosters of either team...so why not accuse the Rams also?

If Morris gets cut...both teams end up even...no compensatory picks OR acquired players.[/quote]

Um..they are accusing the Rams also

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;726443]Um..they are accusing the Rams also[/quote]

Thread title isn't.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

It seemed like a very wierd deal when it occured and when we cut the guy we got, I thought it sounded fishy, but sounds like we were within the rules right?

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Think this is a little ridiculous if this was the reasoning behind the trade.

A 300,000 dollar check if used properly can really help some get there life off the ground in the right kind of way. I do not know much about this Davis guy, but this seems to be pretty shady if this is the reason.

These clubs have a ton of cash and the rules of the CBA need to be followed. How would this effect the clubs in question anyway? Take the 300k loss, for the Redskins who are worth 1.5 Billion Dollars this is pennies.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Maybe we can tell the NFLPA and league to forget about this deal if we admit to tampering in the Haynesworth deal, and reverse that transaction...sending him back to the Titans.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Maybe that was a little nudge that helped push these deals through, but I have a hard time seeing it as being the primary reason for the back to back trades. Funny, or sad, if it is.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=Buster;726439]Absolutely not.

They're BOTH players unlikely to make rosters of either team...so why not accuse the Rams also?

If Morris gets cut...both teams end up even...no compensatory picks OR acquired players.[/quote]

The NFLPA doesn't care about teams ending up even. Maybe the NFL does but the players don't. The NFLPA cares that rules governing the compensation of their players are followed. If the two teams engaged in a sham trade to deny certain players their duly earned compensation, via the CBA, then the NFLPA is going to make an issue of it.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Pretty compelling evidence against the Skins and Rams here, given that there was apparently no on-the-field motivation for the trades.

A slap on the wrist is probably in order.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

whether or not the rules were followed isnt even an issue here - what the skins and the rams did is allowed within the rules of the contract the NFLPA negotiated with the league.

I dont understand what, exactly, the NFLPA is expecting to happen here. really, all this will result in is the NFLPA wanting to close this loophole in the next CBA, and the league refusing to do so unless the NFLPA makes a concession. I would not be surprised at all if this whole thing was orchestrated to exploit a loophole the NFLPA didnt even know existed.

Kudos to the Redskins and Rams for giving the league extra leverage.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=Buster;726446]Thread title isn't.[/quote]

:doh: :stop: :Smoker:

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Shades of GA revisited. No one manipulates DP's like the Allen's.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=Schneed10;726469]Pretty compelling evidence against the Skins and Rams here, given that there was apparently no on-the-field motivation for the trades.

A slap on the wrist is probably in order.[/quote]

Agreed

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;726471]whether or not the rules were followed isnt even an issue here - what the skins and the rams did is allowed within the rules of the contract the NFLPA negotiated with the league.

I dont understand what, exactly, the NFLPA is expecting to happen here. really, all this will result in is the NFLPA wanting to close this loophole in the next CBA, and the league refusing to do so unless the NFLPA makes a concession. I would not be surprised at all if this whole thing was orchestrated to exploit a loophole the NFLPA didnt even know existed.

Kudos to the Redskins and Rams for giving the league extra leverage.[/quote]

If you conspire to circumvent a provision of the CBA you're gonna have problems. While it may have been technically following the letter of the law, the arbitrator, who would undoubtedly be employed in a dispute, doesn't have to really care about technicalities. He can rule according to the spirit of the rule. The teams could definitely lose on this if they did indeed engage in shadiness. SS and Schneed are probably correct. A slap on the wrist may be in order.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Trading players just to cut them and avoid paying a portion of their salary is blatant mistreatment of the player and sure to anger the NFLPA. It's not gaining leverage in a negotiation, it's creating more animosity at the negotiating table.

And don't misunderstand, the Rams and Redskins were not collaborating to take some sort of negotiating tactic against the NFLPA. They were simply trying to save some money.

It sucks to do that at a player's expense; when a guy gets traded he's apprehensive about moving to a new situation, but also eager to impress his new coaches and earn his way onto the roster. To make a move with no intention of considering a guy for a roster spot is a blatant disregard for respecting players and their families.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=Schneed10;726496]Trading players just to cut them and avoid paying a portion of their salary is blatant mistreatment of the player and sure to anger the NFLPA. It's not gaining leverage in a negotiation, it's creating more animosity at the negotiating table.

And don't misunderstand, the Rams and Redskins were not collaborating to take some sort of negotiating tactic against the NFLPA. They were simply trying to save some money.

It sucks to do that at a player's expense; when a guy gets traded he's apprehensive about moving to a new situation, but also eager to impress his new coaches and earn his way onto the roster. To make a move with no intention of considering a guy for a roster spot is a blatant disregard for respecting players and their families.[/quote]
Which is why I bet the NFL puts an end to this practice.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

could the nfl simply void the trades?

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=Schneed10;726496]Trading players just to cut them and avoid paying a portion of their salary is blatant mistreatment of the player and sure to anger the NFLPA. It's not gaining leverage in a negotiation, it's creating more animosity at the negotiating table.

And don't misunderstand, the Rams and Redskins were not collaborating to take some sort of negotiating tactic against the NFLPA. They were simply trying to save some money.

It sucks to do that at a player's expense; when a guy gets traded he's apprehensive about moving to a new situation, but also eager to impress his new coaches and earn his way onto the roster. To make a move with no intention of considering a guy for a roster spot is a blatant disregard for respecting players and their families.[/quote]

Preach

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;726501]could the nfl simply void the trades?[/quote]

certainly.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;726501]could the nfl simply void the trades?[/quote]

So both players can still get cut? Why bother?
[quote]
One union official countered that the 85 percent rule applies only after a rookie has made the initial 53-man roster. [/quote]


If this is true...there's no "controversy" at all.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

So it appears the issue isn't Morris and Davis being entitled to 85% of their salary, but that the 85% is to be distributed to the rookies that make the roster based on downs played at the end of the season

[url]http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/General/NFL%20COLLECTIVE%20BARGAINING%20AGREEMENT%202006%20-%202012.pdf[/url] (bottom of page 54)

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=Buster;726511][B]So both players can still get cut? Why bother?[/B]



If this is true...there's no "controversy" at all.[/quote]

Well, I was understanding that they were traded so the original team would not cut them, and thus avoid paying the salary. Voiding the trade would re-obligate the drafting team to pay the salary if they chose to cut the player. BUT, it does not appear that it even relates to that... From Smoots link

[quote](m) In League Years for which no Salary Cap is in effect, 85% of any amount contracted by a Team to be paid from the Team’s Rookie Allocation to a Rookie, but not actually paid by the Team to that player, either as a rookie, or as a re-signed first year player or practice squad player, which amount was not paid because that player was released, will be distributed to all rookies on such Team promptly after the end of the season on a pro rata basis based upon the number of downs played.[/quote]

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=Schneed10;726496]Trading players just to cut them and avoid paying a portion of their salary is blatant mistreatment of the player and sure to anger the NFLPA. It's not gaining leverage in a negotiation, it's creating more animosity at the negotiating table.

And don't misunderstand, the Rams and Redskins were not collaborating to take some sort of negotiating tactic against the NFLPA. They were simply trying to save some money.

It sucks to do that at a player's expense; when a guy gets traded he's apprehensive about moving to a new situation, but also eager to impress his new coaches and earn his way onto the roster. To make a move with no intention of considering a guy for a roster spot is a blatant disregard for respecting players and their families.[/quote]

Great post. It's treating the players like cattle. Or stocks. Or whatever, but not like humans. These guys are kids. Fresh out of college, and probably pretty scared and uneasy about their future. And then this happens? Pretty shitty on the part of the Skins and the Rams.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=GMScud;726529]Great post. It's treating the players like cattle. Or stocks. Or whatever, but not like humans. These guys are kids. Fresh out of college, and probably pretty scared and uneasy about their future. And then this happens? Pretty shitty on the part of the Skins and the Rams.[/quote]

why is this such a horrible thing? its not like these guys arent paid for the time they practiced with the team in the offseason.

like you said, these kids are right out of college.... since they are college graduates, they should have some tools to help them get jobs like everyone else, should another NFL team not pick them up. I dont know why some people act like these guys are entitled to anything. They arent being treated like cattle - they ARE being treated like human beings. most human beings in this country get jobs for a company of some sort. if they only work at the job for a few months before getting fired for poor performance, they likely arent going to get severance. they certainly arent going to get 85% of the salary they would have made had they performed well enough to keep their job for a full year.

if these kids can't find work with another NFL team, and can't find a normal job like the rest of us, they can apply for unemployment like everyone else. they can move back home with thier families like most college grads end up doing nowadays. it doesnt matter what company you work for - companies view 99% of their employees as expendable and replaceable. there is no loyalty in the "real" world so why should the NFL be any different?

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Agree with BHA, welcome to the real world kids, where life isn't fair and it often sucks. Get used to it.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Also remember this rule only applies to an uncapped year so the teams may not have known about the rule.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

The respectable thing to do would have been simply to tell Morris he's not good enough right now and cut him outright. In the real world, if ESPN suddenly decides one day to let me go they're not going to say "bad news is we don't need you anymore, good news we're sending you to LA to work for Fox Sports" so now I'm packing my stuff, moving myself and my wife out to LA upset about losing one job but eager to start another with a company I think wants me...only to find out they don't want me either and I'm just being used by both as basically a write-off of on their balance sheet.

Further, the fact that he was even drafted means he didn't have a choice of what team to join in the first place. Not that it's a bad thing to be drafted, just saying

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Also, this makes the Redskins look like dicks. Bad PR move. Maybe they should fine the scouting department 272k for blowing a pick.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

i'm sure ole snyder is shaking in his boots about losing 300K

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Well according to the CBA from SS's link it isn't Morris and Dabvis who should be peeved...it is the other rookies on their team who wont be getting their prorated portion of the unpaid salary.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Albert Haynesworth's $48 million guaranteed is nothing to Snyder. But saving that $300,000 is a BIG deal to him.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

If that is the real purpose, this would be one of the funnest things this team has ever done - cruel but funny.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;726589]The respectable thing to do would have been simply to tell Morris he's not good enough right now and cut him outright. In the real world, if ESPN suddenly decides one day to let me go they're not going to say "bad news is we don't need you anymore, good news we're sending you to LA to work for Fox Sports" so now I'm packing my stuff, moving myself and my wife out to LA upset about losing one job but eager to start another with a company I think wants me...only to find out they don't want me either and I'm just being used by both as basically a write-off of on their balance sheet.

Further, the fact that he was even drafted means he didn't have a choice of what team to join in the first place. Not that it's a bad thing to be drafted, just saying[/quote]

well, now that he's a free agent, he has the chance of going to whatever team he wants - if there are any that are interested. If not, he won't be getting paid $300,000 for doing nothing, which is what would have happened if he had been cut outright.

as far the skins looking bad in this, they probably do to a lot of people. but theres no way the skins did this move just to save 300k. they did it to alert the NFLPA to the loophole that can be used to the leagues advantage in the next CBA. Sure it sucks for the palyers that they had to be used in such a way, but if it ensure that the greedy players union doesnt get as much in the next CBA, i'm all for it.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Well, I don't agree with Shanahan/Allen/Spagnuolo/Devaney here, really not in any way, but I see the incentive. A lot of Dan Snyder's investment in the team is being wasted over the last two years by multi-year contracts to players besides (but also including) Albert Haynesworth. I mean, Larry Johnson was guaranteed multi-million dollars to sign here for three years, and if the team is going to keep Ryan Torain, Johnson won't make this roster. He still gets that money.

Phillip Buchanon, Chris Draft, Willie Parker, and perhaps Phillip Daniels are in the same boat. These signings (I believe excluding Draft) all came with some amount of a guaranteed money figure to players who may or may not be among the best guys for this team. DeAngelo Hall and Albert Haynesworth had their contracts restructured so that, at the end of this season, we have the option to eat some buyout money and throw either or both to the curb. Point is, the Redskins are spending a lot of money to get a look see at a bunch of vets, not all of which is going to result in long-term (or short-term) help to the team. And so if the team thinks it can exploit a rookie for a percentage of his salary in 2010 to show the owner that they don't think his money is just monopoly dollars, then yeah, this makes sense.

It's still dumb though. You can just be less wasteful in the first place.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=Mattyk;726583]Agree with BHA, welcome to the real world kids, where life isn't fair and it often sucks. Get used to it.[/quote]Well, life isn't fair, which is why he can be cut to make room for someone else based on some OTA's and a couple of preseason games. It's not about fair shakes, it's about first impressions. But the rules also dictate what happens with his salary in the event of that, and those rules are the thing that IS fair about sports.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

Here is an excellent breakdown of the nature of the problem:

[url=http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/redskinsjournal/2010/09/02/details-on-the-nflpas-monitoring-of-redskins-trades/]Details on the NFLPA’s monitoring of Redskins trades - Redskins Journal[/url]

Actually, the Redskins issue only arises IF Morris doesn't make the Rams roster, and even then it won't show up until the end of the season. The Rams, however, certainly will be checked at the end of the season since we cut Hall Davis. I have a hard time believing this was done solely to keep $300K out of the rookie pot, I simply think BA was trying to get a pick for a guy we knew we were cutting. Simple as that, and every other intention is simply a spin put on their straightforward move by groups with agendas.

Re: Did Redskins Bend Rules in Morris Trade?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;726947]Well, life isn't fair, which is why he can be cut to make room for someone else based on some OTA's and a couple of preseason games. It's not about fair shakes, it's about first impressions. But the rules also dictate what happens with his salary in the event of that, and those rules are the thing that IS fair about sports.[/quote]

I hope everybody realizes by now that the player who was cut wasn't going to get any of this money anyways. So it's not an in your face move against either player.

Why can't 2 GM's who have been talking alot already, via the Carriker deal, and others that didn't happen, say hey I might be interested in so-and-so, and they work out a deal. Isn't that what good GM's are supposed to do?