Firefighters Let Home Burn Over Unpaid Fee
 

This just doesn't seem right to me. I get that there are rules, but it's not fair to the anyone involved to just stand there and watch a home (and pets) burn because of some unpaid fee

[url=http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/firefighters-let-home-burn-after-finding-owner-didnt-pay-annual-fee/19662595]Firefighters Let Home Burn After Finding Owner Didn't Pay Annual Fee[/url]

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Thats horrible...

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All over a $75 fee??? Wow

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NOT right. Well..........I bet the rest of the county ponies up the $75.
Actually, I need to go...write a check......

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It's common practice in rural areas. The only reason they even showed was because a neighbor who had paid the fee called and was worried about the fire damaging his property. Otherwise they wouldn't have been there at all.

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[quote=FRPLG;743939]It's common practice in rural areas. The only reason they even showed was because a neighbor who had paid the fee called and was worried about the fire damaging his property. Otherwise they wouldn't have been there at all.[/quote]

That's messed up.

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I get the need to watch your bottom line, believe me. And if there were two houses burning at the same time and only 1 paid the fee, I'd be totally in favor of saving the one that paid the fee.

But if you don't have anywhere else you have to be? If you'd just be playing cards in the firehouse? Put out the damn fire.

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[quote=Schneed10;743940]That's messed up.[/quote]

To me it is and it isn't.

Areas like this don't have the money to have paid fire protection units so they contract with surrounding localities to provide them. Public safety costs money and when fire units have to leave their locality it creates a public safety issue so they have to hire more people to offset this possibility. More money. Look at it this way...for 75 bucks their house doesn't burn down.

A better solution is to have the county contract on its own and then pass the cost on via taxes. Then firefighters don't have to deny service.

This is very common in rural areas. In fact it is the norm.

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On a positive firefighters note:

I took my son to visit the fire house after work last night in my neighborhood. the reason I did it was because they came to visit his day care and he was really scared of them, so I was nervous that if we had a fire he may not go to a fireman if he needed rescuing. Probably a over protective parent move but hey I rather be safe then sorry. Anywho, they were super nice showed him all the equipment one guy even put on his stuff and hat so he could see how they look. It seemed to work my son really warmed up to them and had a ball they even invited us for dinner with them.

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Basically don't blame the firefighters. They don't have a choice. They have rules they have to follow. Blame the politicians and administrators who created the system that lets this happen.

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[quote=Schneed10;743942]I get the need to watch your bottom line, believe me. And if there were two houses burning at the same time and only 1 paid the fee, I'd be totally in favor of saving the one that paid the fee.

But if you don't have anywhere else you have to be? If you'd just be playing cards in the firehouse? Put out the damn fire.[/quote]Seriously. So what would have happened if there had been a person trapped inside as the home burned? "Sorry son, we can't save your father because he forgot to send his $75 check. Better luck next time."

To me this is like a doctor idly standing by out of fear of a law suit while the person next to him at a restaurant dies of a heart attack.

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[quote=mredskins;743944]On a positive firefighters note:

I took my son to visit the fire house after work last night in my neighborhood. the reason I did it was because they came to visit his day care and he was really scared of them, so I was nervous that if we had a fire he may not go to a fireman if he needed rescuing. Probably a over protective parent move but hey I rather be safe then sorry. Anywho, they were super nice showed him all the equipment one guy even put on his stuff and hat so he could see how they look. It seemed to work my son really warmed up to them and had a ball they even invited us for dinner with them.[/quote]

Man firefighters are awesome. In general they are the exact opposite of police in my opinion. They are helpful and usually very enjoyable to deal with.

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If you don't pay, your house burns. Seems reasonable to me that they shouldn't put the fire out so along as everyone knows the consequence of not paying your protection money. Free market at work.

I hope they have a police protection fee in the works.

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What if there were children in the home?? Would they have forgotten about the fee then? Even to let animals die is just a f'ing shame.

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[quote=Mattyk;743954]What if there were children in the home?? Would they have forgotten about the fee then?[/quote]

Rules are rules...they will likely die because of their parent's negligence. You are free to pay or not pay, it is incumbent upon you to insure the safety of your house and children.

Tough sh*t, the invisible hand at work.

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3 dogs and a cat died? the guy said he tried to put the fire out with his garden hose (in another article). Why couldnt he have just opened the damn front door and let them out? its a freakin double wide, cant be that hard to atleast get the dogs out.

Also surprised noone has commented on the son going down to the station and punching the fire chief in his face. that a boy!

its a shame that the guy said he paid the fee last year and the year before but just forgot to pay this year.

FRPLG - that makes the most sense. have the county/township enter into a contract then pass the cost in taxes.

as americans we have to be careful about public policies favoring the wealthy, especially when it comes to basic services and rights.

a few years ago they debated about whether you could pay a fee to drive solo in the HOV lanes. this sounds good and all but really it is saying rich people dont have to wait in traffic like the poor people.

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[quote=saden1;743958]Rules are rules...they will likely die because of their parent's negligence. You are free to pay or not pay, it is incumbent upon you to insure the safety of your house and children.

Tough sh*t, the invisible hand at work.[/quote]

Talk about a shit storm if a kid died over a $75 fee.

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[quote=over the mountain;743961]3 dogs and a cat died? the guy said he tried to put the fire out with his garden hose (in another article). Why couldnt he have just opened the damn front door and let them out? its a freakin double wide, cant be that hard to atleast get the dogs out.

Also surprised noone has commented on the son going down to the station and punching the fire chief in his face. that a boy!

its a shame that the guy said he paid the fee last year and the year before but just forgot to pay this year.

FRPLG - that makes the most sense. have the county/township enter into a contract then pass the cost in taxes.

as americans we have to be careful about public policies favoring the wealthy, especially when it comes to basic services and rights.

a few years ago they debated about whether you could pay a fee to drive solo in the HOV lanes. this sounds good and all but really it is saying rich people dont have to wait in traffic like the poor people.[/quote]

Depending on where the fire was perhaps the animals were trapped? I find it hard to believe nobody thought about trying to open a door.

As far as his son, yeah good for him. Now he's up for a felony. Smart move. So now they can tack on a bunch of legal fees in addition to having to find a new place to live.

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My question is who has the time to look this stuff up when the alarms are going off? Or does every house have a sticker on it like the car property tax sticker in VA?

My gut tells me there is more to the story like someone didn't like this guy and they found a loop hole when he was in need.

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[quote=Mattyk;743963]Talk about a shit storm if a kid died over a $75 fee.[/quote]

And the impending lawsuit the county would face.

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[quote=Mattyk;743963]Talk about a shit storm if a kid died over a $75 fee.[/quote]

Yeah...I guess someone is always going to be upset. If they want a "community" funded fire department they always have the option of shitcanning the Mayor and the Fire Chief.

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The National Review has [URL="http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/248649/pay-spray-firefighters-watch-home-burns-daniel-foster"]a good article[/URL] on the whole matter.

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[quote=mredskins;743967]My question is who has the time to look this stuff up when the alarms are going off? Or does every house have a sticker on it like the car property tax sticker in VA?

My gut tells me there is more to the story like someone didn't like this guy and they found a loop hole when he was in need.[/quote]

They're called dispatchers. Their job is to sit and answer the phone and look stuff up on the computer. They have plenty of time to do it. No one singled the out. They didn't pay..they got what they paid for. That's how the system works. Shitty system or not it is what it is. The firefighters don't get to ignore the rules and use their multimillion dollar equipment to do whatever they think is right. The problem isn't what any one person did or didn't do. The problem is that fire service is something that costs money and someone has to pay for it. Leaving that up to individuals is either a good idea if we're all cool with those who didn't pay not getting the service at all or a bad idea if we want everyone to get fire protection because they are never going to get every single household to pay up every year.

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[quote=saden1;743973]The National Review has [URL="http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/248649/pay-spray-firefighters-watch-home-burns-daniel-foster"]a good article[/URL] on the whole matter.[/quote]

Pretty good write-up/opinion.

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And that is the problem inherent when common sense has left the equation, and stupidity prevails........

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[quote=Hog1;743979]And that is the problem inherent when common sense has left the equation, and stupidity prevails........[/quote]

Is that the common sense that tells you "those who paid get service" or "put it out even if someone hasn't paid?"

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I bet everyone who hadn't before now sent their $75 in.

However, I believe they really had the ethical responsibility to help the family. Firefighters don't work piece-rate or on commission, most of them volunteer in fact...so I'm surprised they let this happen. They must have had strict orders not to help people who had not paid the fee.

They've already used the resources/time/manpower to come to the house...why not put it out?

I certainly hope they at least made sure everyone was out of the house before watching it burn down completely. What if it began to spread to a neighboring house, would they make a call to the treasurer to see if the neighbor paid the fee before deciding to take action?

Holding citizens' safety hostage to impose a tax or make a political statement is wrong. Yes, people need to pay their bills, but $75 is a strain on some family budgets in today's economy. I wonder if they allow payments to be made...$5 every paycheck or something easier for cash-strapped families. They should not have to risk their lives by not being able to afford yet another fee/tax imposed upon them.

Much like doctors outside of their office, firefighters have an obligation to help when people need their skills.




What would happen if it turns out the secretary misposted their payment or they can prove it was sent in (bank records)?

Can they sue the municipality to replace their house?

Over $75, these actions (or lack of) are potentially opening all taxpayers and the fire department/local government to MUCH MORE liability than $75.

Yes they made their point...but at what cost?

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[quote=FRPLG;743943]To me it is and it isn't.

Areas like this don't have the money to have paid fire protection units so they contract with surrounding localities to provide them. Public safety costs money and when fire units have to leave their locality it creates a public safety issue so they have to hire more people to offset this possibility. More money. Look at it this way...for 75 bucks their house doesn't burn down.

A better solution is to have the county contract on its own and then pass the cost on via taxes. Then firefighters don't have to deny service.

This is very common in rural areas. In fact it is the norm.[/quote]
Another option could be to set the funding baseline where they need it to operate for the fiscal year. When they reach that through the fee, donations (people and businesses DO make separate unsolicited donations to fire departments), their capital campaigns/appeals they always mail out and their bingo/carnivals/spaghetti dinner fundraisers.

When they reach that level of operational funding...do their job for ANYONE who needs. Does it really matter who specifically paid their way as long as they have enough money to operate? Unlike most entities, a fire department has much more of a moral obligation to provide their services.

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[quote=saden1;744015]Is that the common sense that tells you "those who paid get service" or "[B]put it out even if someone hasn't paid[/B]?"[/quote]

Except - per the article you sited - the victim offerred to pay for the cost of the fire company's expense. Not just the missed $75 fee.

I get the whole "gotta pay the fee, dude" [I]but[/I], as Schneed said, they are just sitting there watching burn while the owner is offering to pay the full cost of the expense. If he is willing to obligate himself to that - fine.

I am conflicted. On one hand I get the hard line - if the fireman break the rules and start putting out the fire, all sorts of liability issues not to mention the potential economic pitfalls (many opt out with the thought they can pay if needed, etc.). On the other, there is just a wrongness to watching something burn when the means to put it out are at hand and absolutely available.

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A firefighters opinions on the South Fulton incident
[URL="http://www.leelofland.com/wordpress/?p=8383"]South Fulton Firefighters: A Disgrace To The Uniform?[/URL]

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[quote=JoeRedskin;744024]Except - per the article you sited - the victim offerred to pay for the cost of the fire company's expense. Not just the missed $75 fee.

I get the whole "gotta pay the fee, dude" [I]but[/I], as Schneed said, they are just sitting there watching burn while the owner is offering to pay the full cost of the expense. If he is willing to obligate himself to that - fine.

I am conflicted. On one hand I get the hard line - if the fireman break the rules and start putting out the fire, all sorts of liability issues not to mention the potential economic pitfalls (many opt out with the thought they can pay if needed, etc.). On the other, there is just a wrongness to watching something burn when the means to put it out are at hand and absolutely available.[/quote]

Per the article the offer to pay the fee was after the the fact. Suppose I were to offer my home insurance company my annual fee after my house burned down? As a business would you take my offer? No. Now the guy did offer to pay wherever it costs to put out the fire but what assurances do I have the guy is going to pay? His only know collateral is on fire. Not worth the risk.

If everyone offered to pay the expense of putting out the fire after their house is on fire you wouldn't have a fire department.

We are free to choose and the Fire Fighters made the right business choice. This is a teachable moment.

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[quote=Dirtbag359;744026]A firefighters opinions on the South Fulton incident
[URL="http://www.leelofland.com/wordpress/?p=8383"]South Fulton Firefighters: A Disgrace To The Uniform?[/URL][/quote]

Well said. Its an insane story

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Did Buster and Saden switch accounts in this thread? Seriously I'm confused. :cheeky-sm

At the end of the day we're talking about a measly $75. They seriously let someone's house burn down over $75? As a society you've gotta just ask WTF are we doing?

What's next? Police not responding if you haven't paid a fee?

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[quote=Mattyk;744035]Did Buster and Saden switch accounts in this thread? Seriously I'm confused. :cheeky-sm

At the end of the day we're talking about a measly $75. They seriously let someone's house burn down over $75? As a society you've gotta just ask WTF are we doing?

What's next? Police not responding if you haven't paid a fee?[/quote]

I got my free market hat on.

If you're planning on beating on your wife best make sure you haven't paid the police fee.

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[quote=saden1;744015]Is that the common sense that tells you "those who paid get service" or "put it out even if someone hasn't paid?"[/quote]

[B]Because Cranick hadn't paid his fee, firefighters doused the border of his neighbor's property to protect that house in case the flames spread, but wouldn't help him. He lost all his possessions, plus three dogs and a cat[/B].

[I]I would have to ask...what was saved by the FD? What was gained by the FD? They still made the trip, incurred all the expense. Recieved nothing positive in return. Instead of being heros and saving these peoples pets and possessions, dwelling, etc.[/I]
[I]They are the worthless heartless SOB's that stood there and watched it burn, killed the pets and are responsible for them being on the street. [/I]
[I]AND in the aftermath, I am confident, had they put it out the owner would have paid their bill. [/I]
[I]I hoped that helped to clarify what apparently was....a cloudy issue?[/I]

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[quote=Hog1;744037][B]Because Cranick hadn't paid his fee, firefighters doused the border of his neighbor's property to protect that house in case the flames spread, but wouldn't help him. He lost all his possessions, plus three dogs and a cat[/B].

[I]I would have to ask...what was saved by the FD? What was gained by the FD? They still made the trip, incurred all the expense. Recieved nothing positive in return. Instead of being heros and saving these peoples pets and possessions, dwelling, etc.[/I]
[I]They are the worthless heartless SOB's that stood there and watched it burn, killed the pets and are responsible for them being on the street. [/I]
[I]AND in the aftermath, I am confident, had they put it out the owner would have paid their bill. [/I]
[I]I hoped that helped to clarify what apparently was....a cloudy issue?[/I][/quote]

So they should put out the fire because they are already there and it feels right? What's will you say next? A doctor should see me because I showed up his clinic? The Pharmacy should give me free drugs because it's in my grocery store?


What happened to personal responsibility in this country? When men use to be men.

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[quote=Hog1;744037][B]Because Cranick hadn't paid his fee, firefighters doused the border of his neighbor's property to protect that house in case the flames spread, but wouldn't help him. He lost all his possessions, plus three dogs and a cat[/B].

[I]I would have to ask...what was saved by the FD? What was gained by the FD? They still made the trip, incurred all the expense. Recieved nothing positive in return. Instead of being heros and saving these peoples pets and possessions, dwelling, etc.[/I]
[I]They are the worthless heartless SOB's that stood there and watched it burn, killed the pets and are responsible for them being on the street. [/I]
[I]AND in the aftermath, I am confident, had they put it out the owner would have paid their bill. [/I]
[I]I hoped that helped to clarify what apparently was....a cloudy issue?[/I][/quote]


Id second that...if it was my dog, you'd probably be reading about how I guy killed the fire chief after letting his house burn down

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[url=http://consumerist.com/2010/10/firefighters-watch-as-home-burns-to-ground.html]Didn't Pay $75 Fee? Firefighters Watch Your Home Burn To Ground - The Consumerist[/url]

Seems like the guys story has changed some. In the article for this thread he says he forgot but in this link it sounds like he just figured they would come regardless if he paid. So it seems to me like he figured he could just start skipping the fee an if something did hapen he could then pay the fee. Sounds like his little plan back fired. Not sure how I feel about the firefighters just standing there but if they let one person slide then no one would pay their bills.

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[quote=Mattyk;744035]Did Buster and Saden switch accounts in this thread? Seriously I'm confused. :cheeky-sm

At the end of the day we're talking about a measly $75. They seriously let someone's house burn down over $75? As a society you've gotta just ask WTF are we doing?

What's next? Police not responding if you haven't paid a fee?[/quote]

Would you expect you auto ins. co. to pay your auto claim if your policy went out for non payment the month before?

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Apples and oranges FD.