The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]I think you’re going to see the NFL go more to an NBA model: no negotiation, here’s what the rookie contract is going be. Be productive and you’ll be rewarded. I think the money should go to players but it should go to players that have actually performed at the NFL level. I don’t think there is any question a rookie slotting system is going to happen.
I never understood how a guy who has never thrown a pass or done anything gets $50 million, and you got a pro bowler who’s getting a million.
Eric Berry was selected fifth overall by Kansas City in April and received $34 million in guaranteed money. Former Clemson star C.J. Spiller was selected ninth overall by Buffalo and received a five-year, $25 million contract, including $20.8 million in guarantees.
In the NBA where there is a slotting system, the fifth overall pick last June, DeMarcus Cousins, received a two-year guaranteed deal worth a total of $7 million. At least in the NBA you have to perform a couple of years before you sign a mega contract - can someone explain why the NFL system of rookie contracts makes sense in its current form? If you think about it the teams that get these really high picks often get locked into bad deals if the player is a bust and the current Cap system prevents flexibility and ties their hands as far as player acquisition goes. Also I think the players union should be for a rookie pool as it will help more vets more than anything. Lets hope we don't see any more JeMarcus Russell's and a rookie pool gets passed.


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Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

I see your point. 7M guaranteed over 2 years is really good for a NFL contract for most players/positions.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=Bill B;768664][LEFT][COLOR=#000000]I think you’re going to see the NFL go more to an NBA model: no negotiation, here’s what the rookie contract is going be. Be productive and you’ll be rewarded. I think the money should go to players but it should go to players that have actually performed at the NFL level. I don’t think there is any question a rookie slotting system is going to happen.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#000000]I never understood how a guy who has never thrown a pass or done anything gets $50 million, and you got a pro bowler who’s getting a million.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000]Eric Berry was selected fifth overall by Kansas City in April and received $34 million in guaranteed money. Former Clemson star C.J. Spiller was selected ninth overall by Buffalo and received a five-year, $25 million contract, including $20.8 million in guarantees.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000]In the NBA where there is a slotting system, the fifth overall pick last June, DeMarcus Cousins, received a two-year guaranteed deal worth a total of $7 million. At least in the NBA you have to perform a couple of years before you sign a mega contract - can someone explain why the NFL system of rookie contracts makes sense in its current form? If you think about it the teams that get these really high picks often get locked into bad deals if the player is a bust and the current Cap system prevents flexibility and ties their hands as far as player acquisition goes. Also I think the players union should be for a rookie pool as it will help more vets more than anything. Lets hope we don't see any more JeMarcus Russell's and a rookie pool gets passed. [/COLOR][/LEFT]


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I think you will find everybody agrees with you, including the fans, owners, and players. There's no way this doesn't get done, even the players agree you should have to prove yourself before you get a huge cap busting contract.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

There are only a few rookies getting these big contracts while the vast majority of drafted players are getting minimum contracts. As an owner I wouldnt mind paying a big rookie contract once in awhile if it means I can low-ball the vast majority of my rookie contracts. I cant see any reason why the owners would want to do this.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=irish;768667]There are only a few rookies getting these big contracts while the vast majority of drafted players are getting minimum contracts. As an owner I wouldnt mind paying a big rookie contract once in awhile if it means I can low-ball the vast majority of my rookie contracts. I cant see any reason why the owners would want to do this.[/quote]

Correct.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

I think the owners know the fans want this and will use it to bash the players' union, but, like Irish said, they don't really want to see a slotting system if it raises the guaranteed amounts on players after the 2nd round. It's the perfect ammo in the owners belt, as they can point effectively to any number of 1st round busts and say see, blame the players for hindering it. The players union, on the other hand, is stuck trying to make a slotting system work for all the players and somehow selling the point that the money saved should go back into the players pot only. Doable, but so far I haven't been impressed with the union's arguments and strategies. I think they are simply waiting to get it into court and force the issue that way.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=irish;768667]There are only a few rookies getting these big contracts while the vast majority of drafted players are getting minimum contracts. As an owner I wouldnt mind paying a big rookie contract once in awhile if it means I can low-ball the vast majority of my rookie contracts. I cant see any reason why the owners would want to do this.[/quote]

I never had thought about the majority, that only few rookies get big contracts.. However, I still feel like we should set up limited salary for ALL rookies (there's no need to modify contracts for 2nd rounders and less).. The fat contracts few rookies get, should go to veteran players because they worked hard and are proven players.. All rookies should [B]earn[/B] the big money..

And not to mention, by having a cap for rookie salaries, it would prevent hold-outs from training camp and preseason..

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

unless you can guarantee that the money saved from this would go to veterans, it will never happen. the one thing the union never wants to see is salaries cut

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=irish;768667]There are only a few rookies getting these big contracts while the vast majority of drafted players are getting minimum contracts. As an owner I wouldnt mind paying a big rookie contract once in awhile if it means I can low-ball the vast majority of my rookie contracts. I cant see any reason why the owners would want to do this.[/quote]

Good points. A) What about just a 1st round slot system them? I would be for that. One thing is for sure, most picks at least in the top of the 1st of the draft dont live up to that money...

B) What about just removing all guaranteed money from a rookie contract?

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=Chico23231;768723]Good points. A) What about just a 1st round slot system them? I would be for that. One thing is for sure, most picks at least in the top of the 1st of the draft dont live up to that money...

B) What about just removing all guaranteed money from a rookie contract?[/quote]

The union will never go for anything that will lower contracts. I think this could be one issue where the owners & union agree.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=dmek25;768713]unless you can guarantee that the money saved from this would go to veterans, it will never happen. the one thing the union never wants to see is salaries cut[/quote]

If I was a rookie I wouldnt want to give up $ I feel like I deserve to instead give it to a vet. One's window for making $ as a pro football player is short and I see why any player wants the most $ he can get ASAP.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

Remember the college players going into the draft aren't represented by the players unions, so they really have no say about what happens.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

I know Upshaw was against any cap on 1st round draft picks b/c with them getting huge contracts, it sets a high bar for comparative shopping for FAs.

so if a cornerback picked 6th overall gets 5 yr/40 mil, a FA corner back can then point to that contract as a comparative basis reason for why he should get 5 yr/50 mil.

but i think it has to be done. the comparison to a top 5 pick to someone picked 20th overall is astounding. unless you are picking a bonafide stud qb in the top 5, no player is worth that money imo. not jake long, suh nobody.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=mooby;768666]I think you will find everybody agrees with you, including the fans, owners, and players. There's no way this doesn't get done, even the players agree you should have to prove yourself before you get a huge cap busting contract.[/quote]


One consituency that does NOT agree here is the agents. They have been negaitve on this idea everytime it has come up.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=irish;768667]There are only a few rookies getting these big contracts while the vast majority of drafted players are getting minimum contracts. As an owner I wouldnt mind paying a big rookie contract once in awhile if it means I can low-ball the vast majority of my rookie contracts. I cant see any reason why the owners would want to do this.[/quote]


When this was discussed in the last negotiations for a CBA it was the owners who brought it up and who pushed it as far as it got pushed.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=dmek25;768713]unless you can guarantee that the money saved from this would go to veterans, it will never happen. the one thing the union never wants to see is salaries cut[/quote]

If the salary cap stays as it is - - determined by a percentage of the league's gross revenues - - then any money not spent on rookie draft picks MUST be spent on other players.

Well, if it is not spent on the rookies, then it would have to go to players who are NOT rookies, no? Remember, there is a salary cap AND a salary floor in the CBA...

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

yeah an easy to manipulate floor. didnt the bucs last year have 2 guys with performance option clauses in their K that would have given them like 10 mil each if they blocked 20 punts in the reg season or something outragous like that to meet the floor requirement?

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;768791]If the salary cap stays as it is - - determined by a percentage of the league's gross revenues - - then any money not spent on rookie draft picks MUST be spent on other players.

Well, if it is not spent on the rookies, then it would have to go to players who are NOT rookies, no? Remember, there is a salary cap AND a salary floor in the CBA...[/quote]
im not sure on this. is there a minimum that must be spent? if so, then the trickle down thing would work

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=over the mountain;768817]yeah an easy to manipulate floor. didnt the bucs last year have 2 guys with performance option clauses in their K that would have given them like 10 mil each if they blocked 20 punts in the reg season or something outragous like that to meet the floor requirement?[/quote]


Never heard anything like that - - and if there were a team that might do that it would more likely be the Cards than the Bucs.

If there is any outrageous manipulation of the floor, the NFLPA can take it to an arbitrator who has absolute final say on the matter. Clubs will be careful not to be the ones to lose an arbitration decision that could spoil things for the other clubs. That is called "pissing in the soup"; other clubs will not like that even a little bit...

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=dmek25;768837]im not sure on this. is there a minimum that must be spent? if so, then the trickle down thing would work[/quote]

That is what the CBA says and that is something the NFLPA will push hard for. They will want the floor to be as high as possible and they will want to push for all bonus monies not to count against the floor. Obviously, the teams will try to negotiate those points down. That is what collective bargaining is all about...

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

A person familiar with the finances of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers says that last season, the team signed two free-agents, running back Noah Herron and defensive end Patrick Chukwurah, for contracts that totalled $25 million. Under the rules of the salary cap, the Buccaneers were charged that full amount for the players. But to actually earn that money, each player had to, among other things, block six punts apiece—an exceedingly difficult prospect. In the end, neither player ended up taking a single snap. Mr. Herron was paid $157,000 and Mr. Chukwurah $71,000, although the team's salary-cap number reflected the full value of their contracts. Tampa Bay, which ranked among the lowest teams in spending last season, has lost all six of its games. Tampa Bay and NFL officials declined to comment.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=dmek25;768713]unless you can guarantee that the money saved from this would go to veterans, it will never happen. the one thing the union never wants to see is salaries cut[/quote]

Or, to the retired players' medical expenses. That's another big issue.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=over the mountain;768863]A person familiar with the finances of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers says that last season, the team signed two free-agents, running back Noah Herron and defensive end Patrick Chukwurah, for contracts that totalled $25 million. Under the rules of the salary cap, the Buccaneers were charged that full amount for the players. But to actually earn that money, each player had to, among other things, block six punts apiece—an exceedingly difficult prospect. In the end, neither player ended up taking a single snap. Mr. Herron was paid $157,000 and Mr. Chukwurah $71,000, although the team's salary-cap number reflected the full value of their contracts. Tampa Bay, which ranked among the lowest teams in spending last season, has lost all six of its games. Tampa Bay and NFL officials declined to comment.[/quote]

If a player blocks 6 punts in a season, he deserves $25,000,000 and a unicorn.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

I dunno, I'm not familiar with the details, but couldn't they somehow make it so that the club pays the rookie 1st rounders in the first year a guaranteed a relatively modest amount and those that decide to keep the rookie player will then have to fetch the megabucks? Just a thought, but I know there's at least one avenue of abuse.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;768788]One consituency that does NOT agree here is the agents. They have been negaitve on this idea everytime it has come up.[/quote]

Probably because they will lose money from signing the rookie first rounders. But the agents don't have say at the negotiating table, the players union and the owners do. And both the players and owners agree that rookie first round picks get too much money, which is why an agreement on that will eventually get done. I know the players want that extra money to be used on guys in free agency and I don't think the owners have any argument with that, they just want to stop giving huge cap busting contracts to rookies who haven't proven anything.

Re: The most important part of any new CBA - a rookie slotting system
 

Why all the hubub? The league minimum is more than enough for any of these clowns. Why slot anything, it is the owners' money and if they are paying at least the agreed upon minimum wage then it is a fair deal.