Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

In the 2005 draft, the Redskins were looking for a young QB early in Gibbs 2.0.

With the 9th pick in the draft, they took Carlos Rogers. That was better than taking Roy Rogers (who was clinically dead in 2005) but they missed on Aaron Rodgers who went at #24 in the draft.

What is interesting is that the Redskins scurried to trade up at that point to secure Jason Campbell as the #25 pick.

Homer Simpson says it best ... :doh:

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

Coulda woulda shoulda.........

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

I'm a strong believer that along with a players physical skills, it is important that they're a good fit in the system/culture. I don't know if Aaron Rodgers would be as effective here in DC. In GB he has an offense that fits him well, arguably the best WRs in the league, and free reign. He also had the chance to sit and learn for a couple years.

If he were tossed into the fire in DC with a huge playbook, one of the worst set of WRs in the league, and a revolving door at coordinator and HC I'm not so sure he'd be seen in the same light today.

This isn't me trying to take something away from Aaron Rodgers. He was drafted in GB and has done a fantastic job. I feel that is true for every player.

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I'm not sure that Aaron Rodgers was the type that could have gone to any team and succeeded. In other words, had San Fran taken him number one overall I'm not sure if he would not be in the same situation as Alex Smith.

To me Ryan, Peyton, Rivers, and Freeman are among the few QB's that have proven to me that they could have succeeded virtually anywhere, in any system. I'm pretty sure that Rodgers as a Redskin would have been in trouble had he not hit his stride before Gibbs left. Still we'll never know.

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[quote=Daseal;783249]I'm a strong believer that along with a players physical skills, it is important that they're a good fit in the system/culture. I don't know if Aaron Rodgers would be as effective here in DC. In GB he has an offense that fits him well, arguably the best WRs in the league, and free reign. He also had the chance to sit and learn for a couple years.

If he were tossed into the fire in DC with a huge playbook, one of the worst set of WRs in the league, and a revolving door at coordinator and HC I'm not so sure he'd be seen in the same light today.

This isn't me trying to take something away from Aaron Rodgers. He was drafted in GB and has done a fantastic job. I feel that is true for every player.[/quote]
Campbell also got to sit and learn for a bit. Not saying he had the best of weapons but CP was on fire. There was a lot that went into the lack of success during that part though.

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Tryfuhl -- You're absolutely right. I'm not saying that any players production is completely their own doing. Certainly a great part of success is personal skills/drive. I'm just trying to say I think fit and the team atmosphere contribute greatly to the success/failure of a player.

I would love to be able to see Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning switch places just to see what would happen. Maybe Peyton would be the stud and Leaf would flop. Maybe they both would have been okay. Impossible to know.

Just trying to make the point that physical skills and drive alone don't make a player a star. It also requires system, atmosphere, surrounding cast, etc.

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No doubt, hard to think how successful some people might have been had they been in different situations. What if Bledsoe stayed hot and Brady became the next Todd Collins? What if Todd Collins actually started?

I have faith that he'd do well on nearly any team though, he's a capable QB without a glaring weak spot.. he's been one of the most sacked QBs, longevity would be my only concern.

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I believe 22 other teams are singing the same blues......

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Given our track record in developing QBs and Vinny's terrible record in acquiring good players, none of this would have mattered.

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[quote=Hog1;783264]I believe 22 other teams are singing the same blues......[/quote]100% agree.

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

[quote=Daseal;783249]I'm a strong believer that along with a players physical skills, it is important that they're a good fit in the system/culture. I don't know if Aaron Rodgers would be as effective here in DC. In GB he has an offense that fits him well, arguably the best WRs in the league, and free reign. He also had the chance to sit and learn for a couple years.

If he were tossed into the fire in DC with a huge playbook, one of the worst set of WRs in the league, and a revolving door at coordinator and HC I'm not so sure he'd be seen in the same light today.

This isn't me trying to take something away from Aaron Rodgers. He was drafted in GB and has done a fantastic job. I feel that is true for every player.[/quote]

I agree.!!

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

[quote=Hog1;783264]I believe 22 other teams are singing the same blues......[/quote]


it is what it is. and in my mind he probably done no better then JC with the staff we had in place.

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

Let's worry about finding our own Rodgers rather than crying over what could have been.

A lot of teams passed over him.

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"That which is past and gone is irrevocable, wise men have more to do with time and things yet to come".

somebody just made that up.

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I think the thing that makes it worse is our overall draft ineptitude for a long time. Yes, Rodgers, would have been nice, but alot of teams missed. Barring the last 2 drafts, our drafts have been disasters though as that's what makes you mad.

But, hey, we've got a GM now and a good coach. I think we'll do alot better in the coming years.

GB, though, has done it right. If you look at their draft history for say the last 5 years, they pick up at a minimum of 2 solid players each draft on average. That's two starters at a minimum. Sure, they've had some misses too, but when you have 8-10 picks on average you can miss some.

I'm a firm believer if you want to be successful, you've got to first look to see what the successful ones are doing. I think our new GM knows this.

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

Watch what the PAtriots will do in this next Draft, and how young and fast they will get. With Brady still there as their field general, they will be right back to 13-3 or 14-2 next year. It stinks!

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

[quote=scowan;783315]Watch what the PAtriots will do in this next Draft, and how young and fast they will get. With Brady still there as their field general, they will be right back to 13-3 or 14-2 next year. It stinks![/quote]

Eh, F them. I hope they continue to come close to the SB but get bounced in the playoffs. Bellichik is a f'ing prick and I hope they never make it back to the SB. Hopefully the curse of Adam Vinitieri continues.

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

I skimmed through these posts and there seems to be quite a few people saying that Aaron Rodgers is a "system quarterback." IMO this couldn't be further from the truth. He is a winner. You can take your tom brady and peyton manning, I'll take Aaron Rodgers any day of the week. He is deadly accurate, has great vision, has a quick release, is tall enough to see over the line, makes quick reads and decision, and can sling it with zip just like those guys. The difference in my mind that makes Rodgers better than anyone in the league is his athleticism, confidence, fearlessness, and pocket awareness. Watch him in the pocket, he is absolutely amazing at evading the rush and getting the throw off no matter who is about to hit him. He is a playmaker and a winner. He is tom brady mixed with ben roethelssberger. I also love how he doesn't ream out his receivers when they drop half his passes. He lets them know he believes in them and throw right back at them.

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We could probably start 100's of what if threads with draft picks along with every other team. Looking back and saying what if is not very healthy in life.

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I don't want to turn this into any more of a JC thread than it already is, just want to take up for Gibbs on this one. Would he have drafted Rodgers if he was still there? Who knows, but we do know that he liked JC. He drafted a qb that fit his system & was a high character kid. Did it turn out the way he envisioned? Of course not, but JC was avg. & Gibbs won a super bowl w/a guy that most would say was below avg. - Rypien.

If Gibbs & Saunders had stayed around a little longer, that draft would be easier to evaluate. Regardless, I give Gibbs credit for making the move at the time. It was something that needed to be done.

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

[quote=scowan;783315]Watch what the PAtriots will do in this next Draft, and how young and fast they will get. With Brady still there as their field general, they will be right back to 13-3 or 14-2 next year. It stinks![/quote]

I just hope they want to move up to #10.

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;783244]In the 2005 draft, the Redskins were looking for a young QB early in Gibbs 2.0.

With the 9th pick in the draft, they took Carlos Rogers. That was better than taking Roy Rogers (who was clinically dead in 2005) but they missed on Aaron Rodgers who went at #24 in the draft.

What is interesting is that the Redskins scurried to trade up at that point to secure Jason Campbell as the #25 pick.

Homer Simpson says it best ... :doh:[/quote]

:doh: is all I have to say about this sorry excuse for a thread.

We've gone down this road so many times...every season...and yet, it still ends with the same conclusion..."so what?"

Every team, even the 2010 Packers have these scenarios and unwarranted regrets.

I'm sure teams needing safeties have said "we were one pick away from Sean Taylor or LaRon Landry". Look at all of the teams probably regretting letting Orakpo go by on the draft board....who would have imagined he'd fall all the way to us at #13?

How is Andre Smith working out with the Bengals. Heyward-Bey? 25 teams passed on Clay Matthews. 21 teams let Percy Harvin go by them. Even Michael Oher is better than the 23rd pick he was taken with.

Every team has these scenarios in every draft.


Pointless thread is pointless.

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[quote=Ruhskins;783268]Given our track record in developing QBs and Vinny's terrible record in acquiring good players, none of this would have mattered.[/quote]If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: Do not blame Vinny for the draft mis-steps of 2005, or for the terrible personnel moves of 2006 (Archuleta, Duckett, B. Lloyd, overpaying Randle El). Gibbs had the authority then that Shanny has now. Gibbs had the final stamp of approval on all personnel matters during his second run as HC. I recall his glowing report about Jason Campbell's character and physical skills. Had GB passed on Rodgers, there's no guarantee that Gibbs would have taken him over Campbell, especially given other personnel gaffes that occurred during that period.

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

Yea JC wasnt any where near the answer but i appreciate Joe gibbs idea. Rodgers would have been cool but too late. Yea i hope they want our number one pick too. How old is Brady. I kinda want him to retire now lol

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[quote=freddyg12;783339]I don't want to turn this into any more of a JC thread than it already is, just want to take up for Gibbs on this one. Would he have drafted Rodgers if he was still there? Who knows, but we do know that he liked JC. He drafted a qb that fit his system & was a high character kid. Did it turn out the way he envisioned? Of course not, but JC was avg. & Gibbs won a super bowl w/a guy that most would say was below avg. - Rypien.

If Gibbs & Saunders had stayed around a little longer, that draft would be easier to evaluate. Regardless, I give Gibbs credit for making the move at the time. It was something that needed to be done.[/quote]

I'm pretty confident that Gibbs would have still drafted JC. I only knew him in his second stint, but it seems like Gibbs 2.0 very highly valued players who were religious. Campbell fits that bill, and I don't know about Rodgers, but I would guess no.

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[quote=skinster;783362]I'm pretty confident that Gibbs would have still drafted JC. I only knew him in his second stint, but it seems like Gibbs 2.0 very highly valued players who were religious. Campbell fits that bill, and I don't know about Rodgers, but I would guess no.[/quote]

:doh:


I'm sure he appreciated their character but I HIGHLY doubt he based his draft board on their church attendance.

Sean Taylor had some issues early on, as did others. Gibbs was more of a mentor than a judge.

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

[quote=SouperMeister;783344]If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: Do not blame Vinny for the draft mis-steps of 2005, or for the terrible personnel moves of 2006 (Archuleta, Duckett, B. Lloyd, overpaying Randle El). Gibbs had the authority then that Shanny has now. Gibbs had the final stamp of approval on all personnel matters during his second run as HC. I recall his glowing report about Jason Campbell's character and physical skills. Had GB passed on Rodgers, there's no guarantee that Gibbs would have taken him over Campbell, especially given other personnel gaffes that occurred during that period.[/quote]

I meant Vinny in general (i.e. drafting 2 WRs and a TE in the 2nd round). I just feel that whether we had gotten Rodgers or not it would not have mattered because in general this team (apparently) doesn't know how to groom a young QB and made terrible personnel decisions in the seasons after that draft.

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[quote=firstdown;783337]We could probably start 100's of what if threads with draft picks along with every other team. Looking back and saying what if is not very healthy in life.[/quote]

Yes, but ... looking back is the only way to learn from past errors and not repeat them.

It is not healthy to swell on the past or to begin to think that "others are out to get you" based on your own mistakes, but looking at what you did in the past - - both right AND wrong - - is important. It is how you learn...

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;783424]Yes, but ... looking back is the only way to learn from past errors and not repeat them.

It is not healthy to swell on the past or to begin to think that "others are out to get you" based on your own mistakes, but looking at what you did in the past - - both right AND wrong - - is important. It is how you learn...[/quote]

I think that, in general, that is an excellent philosophy of life.

However, Gibbs made the decision and he is not around to "learn." I'm not sure that your philosophy meets this situation from the past.

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

[quote=Buster;783368]:doh:


I'm sure he appreciated their character but I HIGHLY doubt he based his draft board on their church attendance.

Sean Taylor had some issues early on, as did others. Gibbs was more of a mentor than a judge.[/quote]

I'm not pulling this claim out of my ass. I don't have any sources, but I know I've heard him specifically make referances to Jason Campbell's faith.
Of course I'm not saying its the end all be all in Gibb's book, but listening to Gibbs speak over the years I do get a strong impression this factor is significant in picking his QB. I think he liked JC too much to draft anybody else.

Just because most people might not value faith as highly when choosing a quarterback, doesn't mean Gibbs doesn't.

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While Gibbs may have appreciated JC's faith, I highly doubt he made personnel decisions around that. Gibbs always had a cast of characters on his teams.

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[quote=Mattyk;783455]While Gibbs may have appreciated JC's faith, I highly doubt he made personnel decisions around that. Gibbs always had a cast of characters on his teams.[/quote]

[SIZE=4]Echo.[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Echo.[/SIZE] [SIZE=1]Echo.[/SIZE]

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I wish someone would hurl horseshoes at my head while I juggle hand grenades....because that can't be any more painful than this thread

Thank you! I'll be here all week. Be sure to tip Buster on the way out

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

Gratzi

Re: Close Only Counts In Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;783244]In the 2005 draft, the Redskins were looking for a young QB early in Gibbs 2.0.

With the 9th pick in the draft, they took Carlos Rogers. That was better than taking Roy Rogers (who was clinically dead in 2005) but they missed on Aaron Rodgers who went at #24 in the draft.

What is interesting is that the Redskins scurried to trade up at that point to secure Jason Campbell as the #25 pick.

Homer Simpson says it best ... :doh:[/quote]

Well it's easy to look back. What in the hell were the 49ers thinking??? He was right there in their back yard and they still passed on him! And for Alex Smith?? But he wound up in the right place. GB is a stable organization. If he was here or SF, he probably would not be the QB he is today.

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The guy is a major talent. I think he'd make any team better. Yes, GB has got better talent. No one knows though.

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[quote=skinsfan69;783623]Well it's easy to look back. What in the hell were the 49ers thinking??? He was right there in their back yard and they still passed on him! And for Alex Smith?? [B]But he wound up in the right place. GB is a stable organization. If he was here or SF, he probably would not be the QB he is today.[/B][/quote]

Yup. Rodgers rode the pine behind Favre for several years, allowing him to grow into his role without too many negative forces impinging on his confidence or play. On the other hand, Smith got thrown into things fairly early, without such a grace period, and took some knocks which must have hurt his confidence.