Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

Surprised this hasn't surfaced yet on here:

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/14/debt-now-equals-total-us-economy/]Federal deficit on track for a record this fiscal year - Washington Times[/url]

[url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703361904576143253522341850.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories]White House Expects Federal Deficit to Spike to $1.65 Trillion - WSJ.com[/url]

[url=http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-14/geithner-quietly-tells-obama-debt-to-gnp-cost-poised-to-increase-to-record.html]Geithner Quietly Tells Obama Debt-to-GDP Cost Poised to Increase to Recor - Bloomberg[/url]

[url=http://www.nationaljournal.com/what-could-you-do-with-3-73-trillion--20110214?page=1]NationalJournal.com - What Could You Do With $3.73 Trillion? - Monday, February 14, 2011[/url]

[url=http://www.atr.org/obamas-fy-budgetbr-taxes-more-a5844#]Obama's FY2012 Budget:<br> Taxes, Taxes, and More Taxes[/url]

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

GM you have any threads started the 8 years W was spending like there was no tomorrow?

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

LOL....another who cares what the Chosen One does wrong because Bush did it too.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[IMG]http://www.chartingstocks.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/federal_deficit_chart.png[/IMG]

Amazing that we have pulled out of other recessions without the government throwing Billions and billions at it. How did we ever manage as a country to survive?

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

I figure this is a good place to put a reminder that all spending bills must originate in the House. The President's budget (and every President's budget) literally isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

I think that is an important fact and is very important to see that the budget was best brought into balance from 94-2000, when the Republicans held the House and Clinton was in the office. Hopefully this Republican house, and Democratic president can work together to achieve the same type of success. Unfortunately, I think Gingrich/Clinton was to govt as Tagliabue/Upshaw was to the NFL, and that Boehner/Obama will be like Goodell/Smith are to the current NFL.

Hopefully, everyone in politics will realize that is an unsustainable debt model.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=dmek25;784450]GM you have any threads started the 8 years W was spending like there was no tomorrow?[/quote]

I'm not sure why that's relevant. We're in a hole and we need to dig out.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;784456][IMG]http://www.chartingstocks.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/federal_deficit_chart.png[/IMG]

Amazing that we have pulled out of other recessions without the government throwing Billions and billions at it. [B]How did we ever manage as a country to survive?[/B][/quote]


LOL...and this chart is meaningful how? I mean, it doesn't even answer your own question which implies there's a huge disconnect in your thinking :doh:

This is a more appropriate chart because a billion in 1940 is not the same as a billion in 2011...I'm confidant you know this and are not as silly as your post.

[IMG]http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=US%20Federal%20Debt%20As%20Percent%20Of%20GDP&year=1792_2010&sname=US&units=p&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&col=c&spending0=35.10_32.14_25.30_21.25_20.43_20.01_19.32_17.82_17.29_16.28_17.94_16.05_16.31_14.70_12.41_11.93_10.19_8.39_7.60_6.32_5.80_5.83_7.62_10.85_15.72_16.25_14.17_13.27_13.00_12.33_11.69_12.12_12.04_10.34_9.42_8.13_7.58_6.35_4.81_3.76_2.17_0.61_0.39_0.00_0.00_0.02_0.21_0.63_0.23_0.32_0.85_2.11_1.39_0.87_0.76_1.62_1.96_2.63_2.48_2.53_2.18_1.82_1.15_0.90_0.80_0.69_1.11_1.34_1.49_1.97_9.05_14.70_19.19_27.13_30.85_32.11_32.05_32.97_32.05_31.00_27.38_25.54_26.55_27.36_26.24_25.88_26.92_25.10_20.39_17.84_15.72_15.32_15.51_16.07_14.55_12.65_12.18_11.65_10.28_10.04_9.69_10.04_11.58_10.74_11.42_11.22_9.93_10.22_10.37_9.61_8.96_8.50_8.81_7.90_7.54_7.25_8.73_8.20_7.94_8.06_7.67_7.46_7.98_7.90_7.28_9.58_19.25_34.98_29.36_32.58_31.29_26.17_24.45_22.64_20.27_19.38_18.07_16.34_17.75_21.96_33.20_39.96_40.99_39.16_40.31_39.64_43.16_43.86_42.37_38.64_44.73_68.83_91.45_116.00_121.25_105.81_93.75_94.60_87.63_75.22_72.32_70.15_71.31_66.16_62.36_58.67_59.15_56.20_54.39_53.04_50.91_49.51_46.97_44.12_40.61_39.19_38.20_35.93_35.72_35.33_34.51_33.14_31.68_32.56_34.00_34.42_33.64_32.26_32.56_31.91_35.10_38.96_40.00_43.23_47.65_49.62_51.02_52.12_55.74_61.17_64.09_66.17_66.23_67.08_66.66_64.97_62.84_60.47_57.02_56.46_58.52_60.88_62.18_62.77_63.49_63.99_69.15_83.29_93.25&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a[/IMG]

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

Obama is a dummy...he is spending money needlessly by feeding wars beasts. This country could use some belt tightening but with a congress whose "success" predicated on getting the bacon home there is no hope.

We're not going to solve these budget issues by maintaining the current tax rates and spending nor will we by cutting taxes and spending.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784488]LOL...and this chart is meaningful how? I mean, it doesn't even answer your own question which implies there's a huge disconnect in your thinking :doh:

This is a more appropriate chart because a billion in 1940 is not the same as a billion in 2011...I'm confidant you know this and are not as silly as your post.

[IMG]http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=US%20Federal%20Debt%20As%20Percent%20Of%20GDP&year=1792_2010&sname=US&units=p&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&col=c&spending0=35.10_32.14_25.30_21.25_20.43_20.01_19.32_17.82_17.29_16.28_17.94_16.05_16.31_14.70_12.41_11.93_10.19_8.39_7.60_6.32_5.80_5.83_7.62_10.85_15.72_16.25_14.17_13.27_13.00_12.33_11.69_12.12_12.04_10.34_9.42_8.13_7.58_6.35_4.81_3.76_2.17_0.61_0.39_0.00_0.00_0.02_0.21_0.63_0.23_0.32_0.85_2.11_1.39_0.87_0.76_1.62_1.96_2.63_2.48_2.53_2.18_1.82_1.15_0.90_0.80_0.69_1.11_1.34_1.49_1.97_9.05_14.70_19.19_27.13_30.85_32.11_32.05_32.97_32.05_31.00_27.38_25.54_26.55_27.36_26.24_25.88_26.92_25.10_20.39_17.84_15.72_15.32_15.51_16.07_14.55_12.65_12.18_11.65_10.28_10.04_9.69_10.04_11.58_10.74_11.42_11.22_9.93_10.22_10.37_9.61_8.96_8.50_8.81_7.90_7.54_7.25_8.73_8.20_7.94_8.06_7.67_7.46_7.98_7.90_7.28_9.58_19.25_34.98_29.36_32.58_31.29_26.17_24.45_22.64_20.27_19.38_18.07_16.34_17.75_21.96_33.20_39.96_40.99_39.16_40.31_39.64_43.16_43.86_42.37_38.64_44.73_68.83_91.45_116.00_121.25_105.81_93.75_94.60_87.63_75.22_72.32_70.15_71.31_66.16_62.36_58.67_59.15_56.20_54.39_53.04_50.91_49.51_46.97_44.12_40.61_39.19_38.20_35.93_35.72_35.33_34.51_33.14_31.68_32.56_34.00_34.42_33.64_32.26_32.56_31.91_35.10_38.96_40.00_43.23_47.65_49.62_51.02_52.12_55.74_61.17_64.09_66.17_66.23_67.08_66.66_64.97_62.84_60.47_57.02_56.46_58.52_60.88_62.18_62.77_63.49_63.99_69.15_83.29_93.25&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a[/IMG][/quote]

The chart I posted had the recessions and the deficits graphed against each other. I liked that reflection that the Government rarely has spent us out of a recession, which seems to be President Obama's basic premise on many of his speeches (I am sure many Republicans have said similar things since 2000).

The question I asked was simply a sarcasm aimed towards the trillions of dollars we have spent that were supposed bring us out of recession, along with a heavy dose of my cynicism towards big government.


Your chart tells a very different, and more bleak, picture, IF De Tocqueville is to be believed.
[quote=Alexis de Tocqueville]The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
[/quote]
by your chart, up until the 1940's the Federal debt as a pct of GDP was normally well under 50%. Since the mid 40's our debt even at it's lowest points were higher,or close to, then the highest debt the period from 1800 to 1930. And as we add a trillion plus per year, it would look to be that we are going to hover well over 100% of GDP for the next several years.

What do you think earmarks are, other than "bribing the public with public money"?

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784497][B]Obama is a dummy[/B]...he is spending money needlessly by feeding wars beasts. This country could use some belt tightening but with a congress whose "success" predicated on getting the bacon home there is no hope.

We're not going to solve these budget issues by maintaining the current tax rates and spending nor will we by cutting taxes and spending.[/quote]

Whoa, Lord O might not like you talking like dat!

So in your solution we must raise taxes and do what with spending?

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784488]LOL...and this chart is meaningful how? I mean, it doesn't even answer your own question which implies there's a huge disconnect in your thinking :doh:

This is a more appropriate chart because a billion in 1940 is not the same as a billion in 2011...I'm confidant you know this and are not as silly as your post.

...[/quote]

Also, I first meant that chart as a response to dmek's note about Bush's spending, and I am pretty confident 400Billion in 2003 was roughly equivalent to 400Billion in 2011.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;784507][B]The chart I posted had the recessions and the deficits graphed against each other. I liked that reflection that the Government rarely has spent us out of a recession, which seems to be President Obama's basic premise on many of his speeches (I am sure many Republicans have said similar things since 2000).[/B]

The question I asked was simply a sarcasm aimed towards the trillions of dollars we have spent that were supposed bring us out of recession, along with a heavy dose of my cynicism towards big government.


Your chart tells a very different, and more bleak, picture, IF De Tocqueville is to be believed.

by your chart, up until the 1940's the Federal debt as a pct of GDP was normally well under 50%. Since the mid 40's our debt even at it's lowest points were higher,or close to, then the highest debt the period from 1800 to 1930. And as we add a trillion plus per year, it would look to be that we are going to hover well over 100% of GDP for the next several years.

What do you think earmarks are, other than "bribing the public with public money"?[/quote]

It doesn't even do that though. If you zoom in you will see a different picture for all the other recessions. Plus your the money in your chart has no relative value.

Additionally you might want to look at the last budget proposal by Bush which was the first trillion dollar budget deficit (1.3 trillion to be exact) that everyone neglects in their equation. The truth is that man hid all the cost and left it to next guy to come along. Now I will give you Obama is not helping himself getting out of this mess.

This is the real picture of the deficit in the last 7 years which is the biggest contributor to debt:

[IMG]http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=US%20Federal%20Deficit%20As%20Percent%20Of%20GDP&year=2004_2011&sname=US&units=b&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&col=c&spending0=412.90_318.59_248.57_160.96_458.55_1412.69_1293.49_1645.12&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_a_a_b[/IMG]

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;784512]Also, I first meant that chart as a response to dmek's note about Bush's spending, and I am pretty confident 400Billion in 2003 was roughly equivalent to 400Billion in 2011.[/quote]

Nope, $400 billion today is equivalent to $328 billion in 2003's dollars.

There's been 8 years worth of inflation since 2003, about 2.5% per year.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Schneed10;784534]Nope, $400 billion today is equivalent to $328 billion in 2003's dollars.

There's been 8 years worth of inflation since 2003, about 2.5% per year.[/quote]

Fair enough, what would 1.65 trillion be in 2003 dollars?

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;784512]Also, I first meant that chart as a response to dmek's note about Bush's spending, and I am pretty confident 400Billion in 2003 was roughly equivalent to 400Billion in 2011.[/quote]


See that's the thing, it isn't. When you factor in inflation there's a huge difference. The rate of inflation change since 2003 is roughly 18.5%. 400 billion then is ~474 billion in 2010.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;784537]Fair enough, what would 1.65 trillion be in 2003 dollars?[/quote]


~1.35 trillion.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784488]LOL...and this chart is meaningful how? I mean, it doesn't even answer your own question which implies there's a huge disconnect in your thinking :doh:

This is a more appropriate chart because a billion in 1940 is not the same as a billion in 2011...I'm confidant you know this and are not as silly as your post.

[/quote]

This really is the best chart to look at because it expresses the debt as a % of GDP. The limitation is that the graph doesn't show what will happen in 2011 and beyond; Obama's budget is projecting the blue to spike above the 100 line, the only other time that happened was the 1940s and WW2.

Shortly following that time our economy boomed in the 1950s, but that was a different world. Economies are globalized now, the US has a great deal more competition than in the 1950s.

We won't be able to grow our way out of debt, we're going to have to do it through very hard spending cuts.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784541]~1.35 trillion.[/quote]

So, when I used the chart as a simple way to highlight the difference between Bush's outrageous spending, and Obama's Outrageous spending in response to dmek, it reasonably demonstrated my point.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;784545]So, when I used the chart as a simple way to highlight the difference between Bush's outrageous spending, and Obama's Outrageous spending in response to dmek, it reasonably demonstrated my point.[/quote]

It doesn't because it is deceptive. For one thing it is meaningless and secondly like I stated in my previous post Bush's last budget proposal was ~1.3 trillion dollars. These budgets aren't as disjoint as your "point" would have you believe.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

F them all because they all spend too much money. Even back when Newt/ Clinton had a surplus they were still spending too much money. This is not a party problem this is a goverment problem which starts with the federal goverment all the way down to city goverment. F them all.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Schneed10;784543]This really is the best chart to look at because it expresses the debt as a % of GDP. The limitation is that the graph doesn't show what will happen in 2011 and beyond; Obama's budget is projecting the blue to spike above the 100 line, the only other time that happened was the 1940s and WW2.

Shortly following that time our economy boomed in the 1950s, but that was a different world. Economies are globalized now, the US has a great deal more competition than in the 1950s.

[B]We won't be able to grow our way out of debt[/B], we're going to have to do it through very hard spending cuts.[/quote]

It most certainly won't. Cuts in spending alone won't cut it, the rich will have to cough up some dough too.


Going above 100% GDP is definitely going to be problematic. The wealth of a nation can't be spent on paying your debt.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784551]It most certainly won't. Cuts in spending alone won't cut it, they rich will have to cough up some dough too.[/quote]

Why the rich how about the 40 plus % that pay nothing.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=firstdown;784552]Why the rich how about the 40 plus % that pay nothing.[/quote]

I agree, screw the large catholic families and take away their child tax credit. 25% flat tax across the board anyone?

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784553]I agree, screw the large catholic families and take away their child tax credit. 25% flat tax across the board anyone?[/quote]

25% seems high. That means I have to work 3 months for the goverment. I'll revert back to tis post I made earlier.

F them all because they all spend too much money. Even back when Newt/ Clinton had a surplus they were still spending too much money. This is not a party problem this is a goverment problem which starts with the federal goverment all the way down to city goverment. F them all.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784553]I agree, screw the large catholic families and take away their child tax credit. 25% flat tax across the board anyone?[/quote]If the gov't goes to the FairTax yes, 25% until we're back in the black. Then revert to around 22% or so.

I didn't know it was the Catholics who were screwing the gov't with the child tax credit all along that put us in this mess. :doh:

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

The child tax credit is not that much money compared to the cost of a child.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;784573]If the gov't goes to the FairTax yes, 25% until we're back in the black. Then revert to around 22% or so.

I didn't know it was the Catholics who were screwing the gov't with the child tax credit all along that put us in this mess. :doh:[/quote]

It worked for my boy's dad. Had him five kids paid absolutely zero taxes for 40 years. I mean, we got to get away from encouraging credit for kids. I got zero kids and my effective tax rate 25%. What's your effective tax rate?

On behalf of all single people I accept the gratitude of all catholics with baby mama's and 3 kids :p

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=firstdown;784575]The child tax credit is not that much money compared to the cost of a child.[/quote]

These are life choices you made and the problem is the more kids you have the more credit you get. You shouldn't be rewarded for having more kids.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;784573]If the gov't goes to the FairTax yes, 25% until we're back in the black. Then revert to around 22% or so.

...[/quote]

Agreed

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784582]It worked for my boy's dad. Had him five kids paid absolutely zero taxes for 40 years. I mean, we got to get away from encouraging credit for kids. I got zero kids and my effective tax rate 25%. What's your effective tax rate?

On behalf of all single people I accept the gratitude of all catholics with baby mama's and 3 kids :p[/quote]

For him to pay zero in tax then he must have been low income and actually received a tax credit because he was low income. There is a limit that a family can claim no matter how many kids they have. I think its capped at $6000 so if they are in a 25% tax bracket then they can reduce their tax liability by $1500. Its not really that big of a tax break.

Now if your boy is consider low income they get a tax credit even if they did not pay taxes. So if your boy did not have to pay any taxes then claimed his child then he could actually get a refund and not paid a penny into the system. Thats the screwed up part if you ask me. You pay zero federal tax over the year but you get a child tax credit and get back like $1200 for up to 2 or 3 children. Not sure how many you can claim because back in the 90's it was capped but that cap could have been removed.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=firstdown;784589]For him to pay zero in tax then he must have been low income and actually received a tax credit because he was low income. There is a limit that a family can claim no matter how many kids they have. I think its capped at $6000 so if they are in a 25% tax bracket then they can reduce their tax liability by $1500. Its not really that big of a tax break.

Now if your boy is consider low income they get a tax credit even if they did not pay taxes. So if your boy did not have to pay any taxes then claimed his child then he could actually get a refund and not paid a penny into the system. Thats the screwed up part if you ask me. You pay zero federal tax over the year but you get a child tax credit and get back like $1200 for up to 2 or 3 children. Not sure how many you can claim because back in the 90's it was capped but that cap could have been removed.[/quote]

For someone who complains about taxes you sure don't know much about taxes. How much taxes does someone who makes 70k, has 5 kids and a mortgage pay today? He was s Boeing engineer for 35 years and now has a lake house and travels the world on the big cheese he made on Boeing stock! Low income my ass.

SS33 is getting a sweetheart deal from uncle sam that I am sure he won't give up.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784595]For someone who complains about taxes you sure don't know much about taxes. How much taxes does someone who makes 70k, has 5 kids and a mortgage pay today? He was s Boeing engineer for 35 years and now has a lake house and travels the world on the big cheese he made on Boeing stock! Low income my ass.

SS33 is getting a sweetheart deal from uncle sam that I am sure he won't give up.[/quote]

Making 70 in todays world is low income and I know enough about taxes. What he is making today off his stock has nothing to do with his past income. If he is getting that great of a return then he is getting hit now with some taxes.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=firstdown;784597]Making 70 in todays world is low income and I know enough about taxes. What he is making today off his stock has nothing to do with his past income. If he is getting that great of a return then he is getting hit now with some taxes.[/quote]

Wow, 70K is low income? Ooookaaay! I get that it might not be enough for a family of that size but I'm pretty sure it's not low income.

You don't get it, he invested in Boeing common stock while working there and took advantage of their discount in their ESPP. The scheme allowed him to save his money and get rich after retirement. Of course now that he's collecting he pay taxes but he will really pay taxes when he's dead or hits 79 unless the GOP has it's way.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784595]SS33 is getting a sweetheart deal from uncle sam that I am sure he won't give up.[/quote]Nah, I'm just getting the one extra deduction....and that's going away after this year. You'll be the one getting the dedcutions fairly soon anyway.....right?

But I agree, the whole decduction game is crap. Social engineering at its finest. But, I'm damn sure gonna take every one I'm allowed while they're in place, but I'd much rather see FairTax.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=saden1;784599]Wow, 70K is low income? Ooookaaay! I get that it might not be enough for a family of that size but I'm pretty sure it's not low income.

You don't get it, he invested in Boeing common stock while working there and took advantage of their discount in their ESPP. The scheme allowed him to save his money and get rich after retirement. Of course now that he's collecting he pay taxes but he will really pay taxes when he's dead or hits 79 unless the GOP has it's way.[/quote]

Sounds like your making the argument for the right. I knew you would come around.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

not to argue but.... if your making 70k thats not low income

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

[quote=dmek25;784622]not to argue but.... if your making 70k thats not low income[/quote]

If it is there's a lot of us doing something wrong

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

Firstdown, the reality is that increasing taxes on the 40% who currently pay nothing into the system is like trying to extract blood from a stone. Taking a chunk out of their income wouldn't generate much, because their income is below the median in the first place.

I actually agree that taxes will have to increase on the rich at some point. Definitely against my economic principles. I'd let the economy get stabilized a little further before doing that, but once the economy is in good shape again, we'll have to get more from our highest earners. I would never recommend that under normal circumstances, but debts of this level have not been seen since the 1940s, so it calls for unusual measures.

In addition, Obama needs to make a lot more spending cuts. Social security needs the overhaul Bush tried to make. Those funds need to be invested more wisely and benefits pushed back to later years. Defense spending can come down too; some of the stuff we're capable of is just friggin overkill.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

PS the US median household income in 2010 was $49,700. Meaning half the households in the country earned less, half earned more.

$70K is a nice living, relatively speaking. Will it solve [B]all[/B] your problems? Hell no, but at least you can eat, bathe, sleep safely, drive to and from your job, and enjoy cable TV.

Let's keep things in perspective, FD.

Re: Obama and his new budget: Debt will surpass total US Economy
 

I was trying to give Saden a hard time. I realize 70 grand is not low income but when he said his friend paid no taxes I figured its because he is consider low income under the current tax system. Add in the fact he has 5 kids then that could be the case. I would think that most here agree if your making 70 grand a year you should be paying taxes.