Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2010]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Worst Cornerback Charting Stats 2010[/url]

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/16006/deangelo-hall]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | DeAngelo Hall[/url]

[quote]This list also shows you just how ridiculous it was to send DeAngelo Hall to the Pro Bowl. Is he really the second- or third-worst starting cornerback in the league? No, his numbers were better than this in past seasons. But he's certainly not one of the best cornerbacks in the league, even after you consider all his interceptions.[/quote]


Some of you complained about my stats in the other DeAngelo Hall thread were dated and he had done much better since those stats. Well, here you go fellow Skins fans. Our very own DeAngelo Hall showing he's all flash and no substance.


[B]Bottom 10 Cornerbacks in Success Rate, 2010 Player Team Charted
Targets Yd/Pass Rk Avg. Pass
Distance YAC Rk Success
Rate Rk
#2[/B]
DeAngelo Hall WAS 88 10.5 81 10.4 5.8 81 39% 82

[B]Bottom 10 Cornerbacks in Yards per Pass, 2010 Player Team Charted
Targets Yd/Pass Rk Avg. Pass
Distance YAC Rk Success
Rate Rk
#3[/B]
DeAngelo Hall WAS 88 10.5 81 10.4 5.8 81 39% 82

[B]Bottom 10 Cornerbacks in YAC Allowed, 2010 Player Team Charted
Targets Yd/Pass Rk Avg. Pass
Distance YAC Rk Success
Rate Rk
#3[/B]
DeAngelo Hall WAS 88 10.5 81 10.4 5.8 81 39% 82


Enough of this "oh he made the pro-bowl and was MVP and had 6 ints". He is not our best cover CB by far and the numbers prove it.



Edit: A list of the best rated CBs in 2010
[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2010]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Best Cornerback Charting Stats 2010[/url]

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

Compares really poorly to Rogers and Buchanon (as well as Tryon), which is the important stuff.

We need to improve our pass coverage at many positions. Hall, who remains under contract, is probably not a target to be replaced this offseason. Especially with the Rogers contract uncertainty.

I doubt Hall will be here still in 2012. But he would appear safe for now.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

Pointless IMO we all know how hall plays he's a ball hawk and gambler no shock here

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

Having a free safety that can cover and Landry back in the line up should help him improve these numbers.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;789691]Having a free safety that can cover and Landry back in the line up should help him improve these numbers.[/quote]Can't hurt.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;789690]Pointless IMO we all know how hall plays he's a ball hawk and gambler no shock here[/quote]Do we also agree that he's not particularly good at making those gambles?

I think Ed Reed is a player who really is right more than he's wrong when he drops coverage and gambles, and generates a disproportional amount of turnovers. More turnovers in 10 games this year than Hall had in 16. Reed also might be a hall of famer some day, so perhaps it's a bad comparison. Point is, I don't think big play gamblers also have to be poor coverage players. Ed Reed, I don't think, is better than average at covering, but he's at least that.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

deangelo hall, over rated this year? without a doubt. a liability most of the time? probably.

But I still like him on our team. He adds that x-factor our defense needs. These numbers are kind of disturbing, and I didn't know he was that bad in his blown coverages, but for the sake of me having a little optimism I'm going to chalk it up to the creator of these numbers not understanding the schemes/coverage responsibilities.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

Where are all the d-hall fanboys now?

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

I am shocked he isn't the worst...cutler really saved him.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

Are we cross-comparing safeties and cb's itt?

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

I'm a huge DHall fan, the guy makes plays. He beat Dallas and Chicago basically by himself

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

I like him too........ But for every pick he gives up three touchdowns.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

DeAngelo Hall has earned ALL of the praise and critcism that he has recieved. He earned his trip to the Pro Bowl and He earned his MVP status. He has also earned your loathfulness. Let me just say that no one is perfect in this league. He did enough good to overcome the bad and was considerd among the best by fans, players, and sports writers alike...SUCK IT!

The problem that I have with these so called numbers is this: Did they take into account what his actual responsibility was on each and every play? I'll answer that "No, they did not." I guarentee you that they said "D Hall was the closest guy, so it must have been his responsibility." Stuff like that is easy to say about any player that is all over the field.

All joking aside the bottom line is this. He takes risks and more often that not it benefits the team. Tight coverage is only good for so long because QB's will eventually complete passes against someone like Carlos Rogers and we saw it happen for years. We could not get a turnover to save our life. You need a guy like Hall who can take away opportunities. So what if he gives up some yards on big plays too! I will take his good with his bad any day of the week...especially on Sunday.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

I'd prefer a player more complete at the position. There are no specialists when it comes to starting CB's, you can either play all aspects of the position or you can't. Tackling is just as much a requirement of the position as is interceptions and coverage skills.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

Lord we need a CBA

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

Statistics don't prove a player's worth. Next you will tell me that statistics prove we were a bottom 10% in total D under J. Haslett! Oh,...............wait................

Haha, why can't we just call a spade a spade? He's a huge liability in coverage. He gambles and it works at times. Two years ago it didn't last year it did.

Overrated cb and we all know the probowl is hype driven not talent.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

I don't see how he is overrated if he single handedly won 2 games and people are still giving him crap for giving up to many completions.

I'd say he is being rated right where he needs to be because he is overrated by those who like em and underrated by those who hate em.

Hooskins, I bet if he played for UVA instead of VT you will be on the other side of the fence. Why cant us VA boys just get along?

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;789709]I'm a huge DHall fan, the guy makes plays. He beat Dallas and Chicago basically by himself[/quote]

[quote=Angry;789720]I don't see how he is overrated if he single handedly won 2 games and people are still giving him crap for giving up to many completions. [/quote]


So it's fine if he beat two teams by himself and shit all over himself the other 14 games. YEAH!!!

[url=http://www.espn980.com/blogs/chris.php]ESPN 980 - WASHINGTON D.C.[/url]
[quote]**One week after Redskins Pro Bowl CB DeAngelo Hall said he wanted to be on the # 1 pass-catching option for the opposing team, regardless of field sides -- Hall and others, got lit up by young Sam Bradford who threw short, quick release timing passes. Several plays stick out in my mind, such as smoke screen in which Hall slipped in coverage on, and a big pass down to the Redskins-1 yard line that set up a score.[/quote]

[quote]**DeAngelo Hall continued his torrid interception pace by stepping in front of Calvin Johnson in the back corner of the end zone for his 5th pick in just over one game. [U]Hall however was responsible for two of Calvin Johnson's three scores on the day. [/U]Hall was beaten on a stop route, and then was unable to tackle Johnson along with two other Redskin defenders before the end-zone for one score, and was also beaten on a slant score by Johnson after giving way too much cushion. [/quote]

[quote]Everyone remembers Peyton Manning playing under the Sunday Night Lights and carving up DeAngelo Hall and LaRon Landry on the first play from scrimmage (a 57 yard TD to Pierre Garcon) [/quote]

[quote]**DeAngelo Hall, has made a living out of getting burnt and creating plays at pretty much a 50/50 clip. Hall got burnt badly on a 92-yard TD and run by Mario Manningham. The Redskins blitzed on the 2nd-and-7 play, sending six rushers but getting no real pressure on Eli Manning. Hall mis-judged the ball and was torched by Manningham for a killer score to make it 17-7 Giants, a play that ultimately was the difference. [/quote]


So the score is now 4-2 in favor of games lost over games won. So much for that being a valid reason as to why he's good.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

He didn't single handedly lose those games. We were loosing regardless of his performance.

Regardless, haters will be haters.

Even Revis got beat a few times this year. It happens to all CB's eventually.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

@Angry, good point about what his responsibility was on each play.
@GT, you've noted in your game breakdowns that mid season or so the zone coverage improved, but much of the year there was a lot of cushion between the safeties & CBs. I think that speaks to Angry's point.

I guess I agree w/the analysis to a point, he does get beat a lot but also makes plays. I hope he continues to mature, maybe he can still be a complete player. He has the talent to play solid coverage. I often wonder if it's motivational. That chicago game, he made those picks cause he was in position, a couple in tight coverage. He has a history w/Cutler, so maybe he played w/a chip that day. Most games he does seem more interested in making the 1 big play at the expense of several smaller important plays.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

I just looked at the numbers from both charts again and I call "BS"!

The Success Rate was reversed between the Best and Worst groups. While D Halls Success rate was a staggering 39% on the worst list it would have reflected as a 61% on the good list. That would have put him tied for the 10 spot with Brandon Carr.

The Author is slanted!

[B]I'm just kidding[/B]. It would be nice to see the list in it's entirety though instead of just segments of it.

The author explained how he was determining his success rate, but I would like to see the statistical data which led to those results.

One important piece of statistical information "number of targets to number of completions ratio" is missing. I think that it is far more important than his so called success rate. A corner does not necessarily determine which routes and how many yards deep a route is run against him, but he does impact whether or not the ball was caught.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

One has to look at statiscal analysis and ask the questions (1) Does this make sense to me? and (2) Is this painting a whole picture?

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[quote=hooskins;789704]Where are all the d-hall fanboys now?[/quote]

Right here! There are many factors that can destroy a great players ability to put up great stats. Playing on the Redskins is just one of them. I dont think I need to go down the list of ex Redskins that went on to have great careers elsewhere. Or Great players that the this org. has destroyed, right Haynesworth?

Give D Hall a better D-line and backfield and watch him hit top 10. (In every Category) Because he is top 10 in many.

Funny how most of the top 10 DB all play on top 10 teams. Interesting.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[quote=hooskins;789717]Haha, why can't we just call a spade a spade? He's a huge liability in coverage. He gambles and it works at times. Two years ago it didn't last year it did.[/quote]


Because it doesn't suit the their agenda to make their favorite player into something he's not. But stats doesn't matter when he makes ESPN highlights.




[quote=Angry;789723]He didn't single handedly lose those games. We were loosing regardless of his performance.

Regardless, haters will be haters.[/quote]


If he didn't single handily lose those games, then he didn't single handily win those games either.You can't have it both ways. and you were wrong about us losing regardless. We were losing b/c of plays like that. No one player can single handily win (or lose) any game in the NFL. You might make a case for when Wilt scores 100 points in a game or when Kobe drops 80+ against the Knicks, but not in the NFL.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

Something many of us have been saying for some time. Hall will make some plays. He will also get beat. People hate on Rogers constantly for dropping the ball, but his guy rarely gets catches.

Having a real FS can help cover up his weaknesses. I like that he gambles some, but wish he was smarter about it.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

Hall would be dominating if he played for a team Like Baltimore or GB, teams that actually stop the run.. You guys didn't hate on Champ and if I remember right he gave up some plays also. Is deangelo hall as good as Champ? Of course not but hall is a top 10 playmaking DB in the NFL every year.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;789731]Because it doesn't suit the their agenda to make their favorite player into something he's not. But stats doesn't matter when he makes ESPN highlights.







If he didn't single handily lose those games, then he didn't single handily win those games either.You can't have it both ways. and you were wrong about us losing regardless. We were losing b/c of plays like that. No one player can single handily win (or lose) any game in the NFL. You might make a case for when Wilt scores 100 points in a game or when Kobe drops 80+ against the Knicks, but not in the NFL.[/quote]

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you, but I digress. Ooooh, look, bunt cake!

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[quote=Dogtag;789727]One has to look at statiscal analysis and ask the questions (1) Does this make sense to me? and (2) Is this painting a whole picture?[/quote]

He's statistically been rated as one of the worst CBs in the league since his time in Atlanta. People see the INTs and assume he's a good CB. He's not. IF Oakland is kicking you to the curb after 8 games, chances are that you are pretty bad. Hell, even JaMarcus Russell stayed around for 3 years.


[quote=44ever;789728]Right here! There are many factors that can destroy a great players ability to put up great stats. Playing on the Redskins is just one of them. I dont think I need to go down the list of ex Redskins that went on to have great careers elsewhere. Or Great players that the this org. has destroyed, right Haynesworth?

Give D Hall a better D-line and backfield and watch him hit top 10. (In every Category) Because he is top 10 in many.

Funny how most of the top 10 DB all play on top 10 teams. Interesting.[/quote]


Are you kidding me? Just admit it and say [i]"Hey, I like the guy a lot because he's flashy, but the truth is he's pretty bad at his position[/i]." He's been on of the worst rated CBs in the NFL since his days in Atlanta, and yet people like you still refuse to see him for what he is. Why? Because out of every 5 TDs allowed he gets 1 pick? (made up stat, but wouldn't be surprised)

To your other point, so now we have to upgrade everybody around him to make him look good? Funny, Nnamdi Asomugha didn't need a better team to be one of the best CBs in the league.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

^ Hall isn't NnAmdi though, only Champ and Revis are that good

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;789743]^ Hall isn't NnAmdi though, only Champ and Revis are that good[/quote]



I know, but the sad thing is he's not even a "Carlos Rogers". He's much much worse.


We need Carlos and DeAngelo to run full speed and crash into each other. Maybe then we'll have one complete CB on the team.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;789751]I know, but the sad thing is he's not even a "Carlos Rogers". He's much much worse.


We need Carlos and DeAngelo to run full speed and crash into each other. Maybe then we'll have one complete CB on the team.[/quote]


Yeah LOS isn't that good either imo, he's a solid Corner but he gets beat also.. Basically Hall is better just for his play making ability especially since LOS can't catch a thing..

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;789735]He's statistically been rated as one of the worst CBs in the league since his time in Atlanta. People see the INTs and assume he's a good CB. He's not. IF Oakland is kicking you to the curb after 8 games, chances are that you are pretty bad. Hell, even JaMarcus Russell stayed around for 3 years.





Are you kidding me? Just admit it and say [i]"Hey, I like the guy a lot because he's flashy, but the truth is he's pretty bad at his position[/i]." He's been on of the worst rated CBs in the NFL since his days in Atlanta, and yet people like you still refuse to see him for what he is. Why? Because out of every 5 TDs allowed he gets 1 pick? (made up stat, but wouldn't be surprised)

To your other point, so now we have to upgrade everybody around him to make him look good? Funny, Nnamdi Asomugha didn't need a better team to be one of the best CBs in the league.[/quote]

I don't only like him because he is flashy. I see the potential he possesses and I see what hinders it. And yes, I say build a better, more aggressive D around him, and his style will pay off.

Do I think he's the best? No. But I believe he is better than some say he is. There are other guys on the Skins that I could say the same about.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/41838-football-outsiders-worst-rated-cbs-nfl-2.html#post789735[/url]

[Quote] He's statistically been rated as one of the worst CBs in the league since his time in Atlanta. People see the INTs and assume he's a good CB. He's not. IF Oakland is kicking you to the curb after 8 games, chances are that you are pretty bad. Hell, even JaMarcus Russell stayed around for 3 years. [Un\

The author of this article lends some substance to your post.

[url=http://redskinshogheaven.com/]Redskins Hog Heaven - A Washington Redskins blog[/url]

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[quote=hooskins;789717]Haha, why can't we just call a spade a spade? He's a huge liability in coverage. He gambles and it works at times. Two years ago it didn't last year it did.

Overrated cb and we all know the probowl is hype driven not talent.[/quote]

This list also shows you just how ridiculous it was to send DeAngelo Hall to the Pro Bowl. Is he really the second- or third-worst starting cornerback in the league? No, his numbers were better than this in past seasons. But he's certainly not one of the best cornerbacks in the league, even after you consider all his interceptions.

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2010]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Worst Cornerback Charting Stats 2010[/url]

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/16006/deangelo-hall]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | DeAngelo Hall[/url]

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

Hall has been taking chances and either making or giving up big plays since high school. He cost us the State Championship one year (The completely BLIND officials didn't help either. :cussing:) but at the same time we probably wouldn't have gotten there without him. I haven't seen a lot of growth from him.....he just is what he is and you take the good with the bad. Sometimes it's great...sometimes it sucks.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

"thats why my brother cut your ass!"

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

I didn't hear anyone complaining about our season opener.

– DeAngelo Hall returned a fumble for a score and Graham Gano kicked two field goals, as the Redskins held on to edge the Cowboys, 13-7.

We can all thank D.Hall for the only win of the season that actually counted for anything. (Beating the Cowboys)

[IMG]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKw2sHZFRo2qzudhZZVFHRiQcsFAXDvAOonz_ZXtf0bQXhJ5O30A[/IMG]

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

[quote=44ever;789765]I didn't hear anyone complaining about our season opener.

– DeAngelo Hall returned a fumble for a score and Graham Gano kicked two field goals, as the Redskins held on to edge the Cowboys, 13-7.

We can all thank D.Hall for the only win of the season that actually counted for anything. (Beating the Cowboys)[/quote]

Or the Bears game.

Re: Football Outsiders: Worst rated CBs in the NFL in 2010 (DeAngelo ranked #2)
 

Way overpaid too, leave that to Vinny. I would take Rogers over Hall, he might have stone hands but at least he can cover and tackle. Can't stand his punk attitude and starting shit with his big mouth, I'd rather have Barnes and Rogers as CB's.