Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

In an effort not to bury today's big news, I'm closing the current CBA thread and starting a new one, with Judge Nelson's decision today as the jump off.

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6424084]Judge rules for NFL players, lifts owners' lockout - ESPN[/url]

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

Guys, you have the next 5 mins to submit all your trades, signing, cuts before we make the appeal...GO GO GO!



*reposted from closed thread*

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

Unless the court of appeals issues a verdict immediately, free agency starts now.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

from what all these legal analysts are saying, this means nothing in terms of what is allowed right now since there aren't any rules to go by. Then again they also sound pretty confused themselves.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

Yeah safe to say, free agency is not starting now.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

If there's no rules to go by then nothing stops teams from signing free agents, other tha. Waiting for permission from the league to do so... However if they wait for permission the players will file an antitrust suit since the league can't impose any kind of rules over the teams and players without a unionized force.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

Either San Fransisco or Arizona will try for Kolb. I think quarterbacks will be the only significant movement

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

If the Circuit Court grants a stay right away, there will be no player movement right now.

Also, before there can be player movement, the 32 teams have to agree on ground rules. One would think that they had planned for this contingency (such as agreeing to reinstate last year's rules) but right now that does not seem to be the case.

Anyhow, in courtroom football the players win the first game. If we want a quick end to this fiasco, let's hope that they stay undefeated.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

Its my understanding that The teams can't agree on rules without violating antitrust laws. The judge ruled that the decertification of the union was legit; therefore 32 teams can't impose uniform rules on a non-unionized workforce.

Personally I'm hoping the circuit court grants a stay and the NFL wins an appeal. The players have too much power an the owners have none. The union can strike but the NFL can't lockout. It's not fair. This situation is just going to force the owners to make another bad deal.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;795327]Its my understanding that The teams can't agree on rules without violating antitrust laws. The judge ruled that the decertification of the union was legit; therefore 32 teams can't impose uniform rules on a non-unionized workforce.

Personally I'm hoping the circuit court grants a stay and the NFL wins an appeal. The players have too much power an the owners have none. The union can strike but the NFL can't lockout. It's not fair. This situation is just going to force the owners to make another bad deal.[/quote]

In an extreme, Jeff Kessler interpretation, you are correct about antitrust laws. But teams are operating as if such extreme interpretations will not win the day. Example: the draft, which involves teams agreeing upon uniform rules.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

Well the 2011 draft was agreed upon as part of the last CBA.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/25/ryan-clark-to-steelers-show-up-for-work-tomorrow-at-800-a-m/"]Ryan Clark to Steelers: Show up for work tomorrow at 8:00 a.m.[/URL]

this is gonna get wacky!

edit:

Forgot to post this first

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/25/nfl-wont-start-league-year-without-chance-to-seek-a-stay/]NFL won’t start league year without chance to seek a stay | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[QUOTE=PFT] “We do not intend to start the league year until we have had an opportunity to seek a stay,” NFL spokesman Greg Aiello tells PFT via e-mail.

In other words, if they show up, they’re not getting in.

It seems like a reasonable position. But it’s a calculated risk. The lockout is, until further notice, over. Any team that fails to honor that order could be in trouble.[/QUOTE]

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

Yes!!

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/25/deangelo-hall-talks-lockout-reflects-on-making-1m-a-game-calls-cutler-a-clown/]DeAngelo Hall talks lockout, reflects on making $1M a game, calls Cutler a clown | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

Okay well now I'm not sure if I was right or not about what happens after the judge lifts the lockout. On one hand I got the obvious part right in that the NFL would appeal. However I wonder if what I was told (mini-camps and free agency in June at the earliest assuming the NFL looses on appeal) will hold up.

At the very least it looks like existing players will be allowed to use the facilities again to workout and train.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

Mort just mentioned on "On the Clock" that if the appeal is denied we could very well see FA and Trading starting on Draft day. That would be so epic!

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;795366]Okay well now I'm not sure if I was right or not about what happens after the judge lifts the lockout. On one hand I got the obvious part right in that the NFL would appeal. However I wonder if what I was told (mini-camps and free agency in June at the earliest assuming the NFL looses on appeal) will hold up.

At the very least it looks like existing players will be allowed to use the facilities again to workout and train.[/quote]

The owners have the right under existing labor law to set work standard rules. Even if you belong to a union, the company you work for has certain basic standards that have to apply to all workers.

So, what are the chances that the owners will come up with a set of basic work rules that the players will willingly work under? My guess is the probability is zero.

In that case, it goes back to the courts/the mediators/the NLRB/the Society of People Pre-disposed To Be Pissed Off By Everything.

This is not nearly over until there is a CBA. And there is not going to be a CBA in the next week or so...

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;795340]Well the 2011 draft was agreed upon as part of the last CBA.[/quote]

But last year's player movement rules were also agreed upon within a CBA so re-imposing them should be somewhat uncontroversial. Not beyond antitrust law - again I agree with you there - but acceptable as part of a kind of gentleman's agreement.

The players (aside from lawyer Kessler) are not complaining about everything that they could complain about under antitrust law. If they did, we might as well kiss the 2011 season goodbye now, because those antitrust issues (such as unrestricted free agency for everyone not under contract or no draft) could not be resolved any time soon.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

So when does FA start??

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;795384]So when does FA start??[/quote]

Thats what i want to know. God that could make draft day so much simpler.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/25/source-coaches-told-not-to-speak-to-players/"]Source: Coaches told not to speak to players[/URL]

Like I said, this is about to get wacky

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

Looks like the league changed their minds, at least in regards to allowing players into the facilities:

Rick Maese
RT @AlbertBreer: NFL spokesman Greg Aiello says that if players show up to team facilities in the morning, they will be allowed in.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

ohh emm gee, 1-0 players.

[IMG]http://www.facetimestrategy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/RebeccaBlack.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

Yeah the will be allowed IN the building, but not access to the weight room, etc.... so just like an open house. walk around and look type access.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;795366]Okay well now I'm not sure if I was right or not about what happens after the judge lifts the lockout. On one hand I got the obvious part right in that the NFL would appeal. However I wonder if what I was told (mini-camps and free agency in June at the earliest assuming the NFL looses on appeal) will hold up.

[B]At the very least it looks like existing players will be allowed to use the facilities again to workout and train[/B].[/quote]

they are allowed at the faciliteis but cannot use the weight room or training facilities from what i just heard on the news. makes sense to me :cheeky-sm

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=Darrell_Green_28;795421]Yeah the will be allowed IN the building, but not access to the weight room, etc.... so just like an open house. walk around and look type access.[/quote]

yeah heard the same thing, i guess they don't want the players to forget the layout of the buildings?

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/26/ten-things-to-know-right-now-about-the-lockout-ruling/]Ten things to know, right now, about the lockout ruling | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/26/winning-on-appeal-will-be-an-uphill-climb-for-the-nfl/]Winning on appeal will be an uphill climb for the NFL | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/26/nfl-needs-to-revisit-its-legal-strategies-and-tactics/]NFL needs to revisit its legal strategies and tactics | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

gotta love zo, atleast they tried to show up

[url=http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/04/redskins-lorezno-alexander-says-gm-told-him-no-workouts-allowed/1]Redskins' Lorezno Alexander says GM told him no workouts allowed - The Huddle: Football News from the NFL - USATODAY.com[/url]

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

DeMaurice Smith was just on Mike and Mike, the guy is a little weasel.
Mike was mostly pushing for an answer regarding trades and FA on draft day happening and all Smith would say is that the owners are losers and they lost in this they lost in that blah blah blah...what an annoying little lawyer twerp.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;795461]DeMaurice Smith was just on Mike and Mike, the guy is a little weasel.
Mike was mostly pushing for an answer regarding trades and FA on draft day happening and all Smith would say is that the owners are losers and they lost in this they lost in that blah blah blah...what an annoying little lawyer twerp.[/quote]

Well it wouldn't matter because it would be up to the league to figure out when and if trades would happen.

Honestly, at this point I just don't how much one could support the owners. Not that I'm going to blindly be behind the side of the players. But I feel that their insistence on continuing the lockout is affecting many people and the teams themselves.

Right now you have no free agency, preventing teams from signing players or dealing for players. Teams have altered their draft play because of no free agency. These two things are going to have a negative effect on a lot of teams, and not just for the next season I feel.

You teams with new coaching staffs that won't be able to gameplan and hold practices, which I am sure will affect the team's performance this season. Even with established teams like the Packers and the Patriots, I'm sure not having training camp is going to have an effect.

Finally, you have your run of the mill player and your average league employee who is not earning a paycheck and/or will need to take a paycut.

I know that the lockout gives the owners a bargaining chip, but they are screwing a lot of people, even their own league/team employees in the process. And for a number of franchise, they are sacrificing performance in the upcoming season and probably a number of seasons to come.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;795327]Its my understanding that The teams can't agree on rules without violating antitrust laws. The judge ruled that the decertification of the union was legit; therefore 32 teams can't impose uniform rules on a non-unionized workforce.

Personally I'm hoping the circuit court grants a stay and the NFL wins an appeal. [B]The players have too much power an the owners have none. The union can strike but the NFL can't lockout. It's not fair.[/B] This situation is just going to force the owners to make another bad deal.[/quote]

Technically the owners do have the right to fire/release players. However, they don't wish to do that cause there is nothing stopping another club from picking them up. The lockout lets the owners retain their contract rights to players during the stopage which is probably why it was ruled illegal.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;795461]DeMaurice Smith was just on Mike and Mike, the guy is a little weasel.
Mike was mostly pushing for an answer regarding trades and FA on draft day happening and all Smith would say is that the owners are losers and they lost in this they lost in that blah blah blah...what an annoying little lawyer twerp.[/quote]

Gotta agree with this post here. He just comes across as an attention grabbing little troll. If the players want to keep the public on their side, they need a new front man.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

I'm still dumbfounded by some people. The ONE time a American work force an incredible leverage over a greedy corporation, and many of you want to favor the corporation? ...lol You all should be applauding their ability to tell this corporation to go **** themselves. Corporations have been screwing the American people for a long time now, it's about time somebody had fighting power against them.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

Interesting twitter post here:

"MarkMaske
James Quinn, attorney for players, said he thinks free agency should begin within 24 hours or he "would have concerns" about collusion."

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;795461]DeMaurice Smith was just on Mike and Mike, the guy is a little weasel.
Mike was mostly pushing for an answer regarding trades and FA on draft day happening and all Smith would say is that the owners are losers and they lost in this they lost in that blah blah blah...what an annoying little lawyer twerp.[/quote]

Agreed. I am certainly on the owners' side in this, but as much is due to the fact that I feel the NFLPA top brass just feel like they can do whatever they want and blatantly lie about the facts. (not that the owners haven't stretched things too. :() Here is the wapo article with D. Smith's comments:
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/post/nfl-lockout-aftermath-demaurice-smith-says-theres-chaos/2011/04/26/AFjVEypE_blog.html]NFL lockout aftermath: DeMaurice Smith says there’s ‘chaos’ - The Early Lead - The Washington Post[/url]

[quote]“I read the commissioner’s [Wall Street Journal] op-ed this morning and my only conclusion is that it’s bizarre. To say that the players don’t want a draft and don’t want football...we didn’t lock ourselves out. We didn’t game the TV contracts to hurt us. [B]And if he truly believes that the draft is something we’re attacking[/B], then I don’t know what’s going to happen on Thursday, but the last time I checked my calendar, the draft is scheduled to move forward.”[/quote]
The NFLPA lawyers most certainly are attacking the draft. They can't stop this one, because it was in the last CBA, but certainly the lawsuit Brady v NFL attacks the legal foundation of a draft.

I am in the extreme minority because I would rather see a whole year of no NFL and let both sides learn some humility (unfortunately a lot of good people would be hurt by that and that is extremely unfair when these two sides are both doing very well by all accounts)

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=NC_Skins;795491]I'm still dumbfounded by some people. The ONE time a American work force an incredible leverage over a greedy corporation, and many of you want to favor the corporation? ...lol You all should be applauding their ability to tell this corporation to go **** themselves. Corporations have been screwing the American people for a long time now, it's about time somebody had fighting power against them.[/quote]

There was picture of Brandon Marshall's house on CNN yesterday.
When I see pictures like that I have a hard time agreeing with you.

I'm not enjoying seeing "the Man" get screwed if it means FA, trades and the NFL year is foxxored.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;795494]There was picture of Brandon Marshall's house on CNN yesterday.
When I see pictures like that I have a hard time agreeing with you.

I'm not enjoying seeing "the Man" get screwed if it means FA, trades and the NFL year is foxxored.[/quote]

I would say that players who make a lot of money such as Marshall, represent a small percentage of the people affected by this, when you add up your run of the mill bench warmer player, mid-to-low level league employees, coaching assistants, trainers, and mid-to-low level team employees.

If the league was full of players making Brady's or Manning's salary, it'd be one thing. But many people that are being furloughed, not being paid, or having their salaries cut don't make that type of money.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;795494]There was picture of Brandon Marshall's house on CNN yesterday.
When I see pictures like that I have a hard time agreeing with you.

I'm not enjoying seeing "the Man" get screwed if it means FA, trades and the NFL year is foxxored.[/quote]


So out of the 1500 players, you use Brandon Marshall as your example? For every idiot like him, there are many London Fletcher, Andre Carter, Phillip Daniels, Chris Samuels. Those guys are just magnified because it creates drama and drama sells papers and ratings.

*see post above mine in regards to discrepancies in the salaries*

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=NC_Skins;795491]I'm still dumbfounded by some people. The ONE time a American work force an incredible leverage over a greedy corporation, and many of you want to favor the corporation? ...lol You all should be applauding their ability to tell this corporation to go **** themselves. Corporations have been screwing the American people for a long time now, it's about time somebody had fighting power against them.[/quote]

It's so clear where your biases lie, (i don't hide mine either) that the players could be 100% in the wrong, and you would still sing the virtue of "fighting the power". None of these guys (the ones pushing this fight) deserve respect because they all are self-obsessed ego-maniacs, regardless of the face they put on in public.

Re: Judge grants motion, lifts lockout; owners' appeal coming
 

[quote=Ruhskins;795497]I would say that players who make a lot of money such as Marshall, represent a small percentage of the people affected by this, when you add up your run of the mill bench warmer player, mid-to-low level league employees, coaching assistants, trainers, and mid-to-low level team employees.

If the league was full of players making Brady's or Manning's salary, it'd be one thing. But many people that are being furloughed, not being paid, or having their salaries cut don't make that type of money.[/quote]

every player that stays in the league(not practice squad) 3 years will have made at least 1million dollars based on the previous CBA, not Manning money, but also not chump change. I agree about assistants, trainers and the non-player workers.