Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

Starting a new thread on this because it looks like pretty big news. Judge Boylan has decided not to have the court ordered mediation next week and allow the NFL and NFLPA to continue their ongoing "settlement discussions"

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

What's the difference between the court ordered mediation and ongoing "settlement discussions"?

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

Fingers crossed.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

Best I can explain it, it means the players are winning.

Honestly, I don't know how to succinctly explain it. Not as well as JoeRedskin could.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=NC_Skins;805453]What's the difference between the court ordered mediation and ongoing "settlement discussions"?[/quote]


From Florio:

This could mean that communications will continue, either in person or via other means, into next week and beyond.

It makes sense for the mediator, U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan, to push the parties to try to settle the case now, before the Eighth Circuit issues a ruling on whether the lockout will be lifted. After a final ruling is issued, one side will have a lot more leverage. For now, the uncertainty can be used by both sides to strike a win-win deal.

That’s why, in our view, it’s incumbent on the NFL to be prepared to make an offer aimed genuinely at restoring labor peace, without regard to the concept of winning the best possible deal.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/02/next-weeks-mediation-session-has-been-canceled/]Next week’s mediation session has been canceled | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=NC_Skins;805453]What's the difference between the court ordered mediation and ongoing "settlement discussions"?[/quote]

I think at the heart of it both sides are serious about trying to strike a deal vs being forced to sit in a room together and act like they are trying to strike a deal.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

crazy, in mediation the lawyers ruled, now in "settlement talks" the lawyers are not around. I would have thought it would have been the other way around. Regardless, I think this has to be a good sign, as the court (ie Judge Nelson) seemingly would have had to sign off on her order for mediation being cancelled, and by that, I would think both sides must have at least seemed like a solution was possible.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=mlmpetert;805459]From Florio:

This could mean that communications will continue, either in person or via other means, into next week and beyond.

It makes sense for the mediator, U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan, to push the parties to try to settle the case now, before the Eighth Circuit issues a ruling on whether the lockout will be lifted. After a final ruling is issued, one side will have a lot more leverage. For now, the uncertainty can be used by both sides to strike a win-win deal.

That’s why, in our view, it’s incumbent on the NFL to be prepared to make an offer aimed genuinely at restoring labor peace, without regard to the concept of winning the best possible deal.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/02/next-weeks-mediation-session-has-been-canceled/]Next week’s mediation session has been canceled | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

Funny how this lockout has actually made good use of Florio's background as a lawyer.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;805495]Funny how this lockout has actually made good use of Florio's background as a lawyer.[/quote]

Eh, he is still a pr*ck.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;805495]Funny how this lockout has actually made good use of Florio's background as a lawyer.[/quote]

He is less useless now.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

I think this is a legit sign that an end to this mess could be near.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=Mattyk;805503]I think this is a legit sign that an end to this mess could be near.[/quote]

[url=http://www.cbssports.com/#!/nfl/story/15192190/miles-left-to-travel-but-real-progress-made-in-nfl-talks]Sports - CBSSports.com Sports News, Fantasy Scores, Sports Video[/url]

Let's hope. Skinfan69's custom made Vince Young Redskins jersey is just collecting dust

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

I don't see how this is a sign the players are winning. I take it as a sign demaurice smith is actually negotiating in good faith for the first time so a mediator is no longer necessary.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

I'm not sure either side is winning, but it seems to be an indication the owners are starting to budge a bit.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;805518]I don't see how this is a sign the players are winning. I take it as a sign demaurice smith is actually negotiating in good faith for the first time so a mediator is no longer necessary.[/quote]

Well the NFLPA offered settlement as an option in the past, and the owners rejected. Though I believe this a different sort of settlement

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

I don't care who "wins" as long as both sides agree and I get football.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/02/keeping-the-lawyers-out-will-be-the-key-to-progress/]Keeping the lawyers out will be the key to progress | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=WestCoastSkinsFan;805522]I don't care who "wins" as long as both sides agree and I get football.[/quote]

True, and in the end the fans are the real winners in this.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

My read is that possibly both sides have figured out that a decision from the 8th either way basically puts the season in serious jeopardy. Whoever loses is going to both a) lose almost all their leverage and b) be forced to essentially either give up or take it all the way. I don't doubt both sides anticipate the other isn't willing to cave all the way so they therefore have to think the other side is willing to kill the season. Maybe both sides are simply scared that the other is really "crazy girlfriend". Either way real negotiations, without lawyers, is the only way this ever is going to get resolved. Court decision or not. Might as well do it now before the golden goose is totally shot.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=SmootSmack;805521]Well the NFLPA offered settlement as an option in the past, and the owners rejected. Though I believe this a different sort of settlement[/quote]

The NFL also offered what nearly every sane person beleives was a reasonable offer, atleast reasonable enough to merit countering... And smith balked and called it the worst deal in the history of sports. It seems likely that smith returned to negotiations due to building pressure from the players whos interests he was supposed to be representing the whole time.

In the end, I believe a deal needs to get done before the ruling next week. I think any deal reached after the ruling would be horribly one-sided and short lived, with another lockout by the owners or a strike by the players within 5 years. The only way we get a long term deal now is if both parties recognize they need eachother and work out a deal they all can live with. Neither side needs to "win." the most important thing is that no one feels they "lost."

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;805532][B]The NFL also offered what nearly every sane person beleives was a reasonable offer, atleast reasonable enough to merit countering... And smith balked and called it the worst deal in the history of sports. It seems likely that smith returned to negotiations due to building pressure from the players whos interests he was supposed to be representing the whole time. [/B]

In the end, I believe a deal needs to get done before the ruling next week. I think any deal reached after the ruling would be horribly one-sided and short lived, with another lockout by the owners or a strike by the players within 5 years. The only way we get a long term deal now is if both parties recognize they need eachother and work out a deal they all can live with. Neither side needs to "win." the most important thing is that no one feels they "lost."[/quote]

Your opinion, but you're entitled

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

After all this, I don't see De Smith being head of the NFLPA much longer. He's bungled the handling of this whole situation so badly and has acted too much like a lawyer. Which I guess I can't blame him, because that's all he is.

I think the players (as in the actual players and not the PA) and the owners meeting without lawyers (except De Smith, but it seems the players and the owners did most of the talking) is the best thing possible. All lawyers want to do is litigate. It's what they're good at.

Negotiations face to face with one another encourages more trusts and will make both sides feel like the other isn't out to screw them.

[QUOTE=NLC1054;805536]After all this, I don't see De Smith being head of the NFLPA much longer. He's bungled the handling of this whole situation so badly and has acted too much like a lawyer. Which I guess I can't blame him, because that's all he is.

I think the players (as in the actual players and not the PA) and the owners meeting without lawyers (except De Smith, but it seems the players and the owners did most of the talking) is the best thing possible. All lawyers want to do is litigate. It's what they're good at.

Negotiations face to face with one another encourages more trusts and will make both sides feel like the other isn't out to screw them.[/QUOTE]

I hope smith isn't done as head of pa. Someone has to lookout and fight for the players. Although I understand people feel the lawyers are dragging things they are not out of the loop. I'm sure everything is documented and given to them after the meetings. I'm also sure both parties are prepped by their lawyers before each meeting. Basically no final agreement will be reached without a lawyers validation. And it would be stupid any other way.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

I don't know enough to have an opinion of D. Smith aside from seeing that he has cool hats. I think you have to acknowledge that on both sides this was a major transition w/new leadership. We took for granted that Upshaw & Taglabue had developed a working relationship over many years.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=freddyg12;805557]I don't know enough to have an opinion of D. Smith aside from seeing that he has cool hats. I think you have to acknowledge that on both sides this was a major transition w/new leadership. We took for granted that Upshaw & Taglabue had developed a working relationship over many years.[/quote]

This.

If anyone thought this was going to be an easy process going in they were sadly mistaken.

Negotiations are often ugly and have their high and low points. Especially when both parties haven't been though the process before as you mentioned.

Once the dust settles and there's a new CBA in place, it will help set the tone for future negotiations and I think history will look back on this with a more positive note if they can avoid missing any games and reach a deal that makes sense for everyone.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

If D Smith holds the line tough enough, and keeps the players together while mixing in enough leadership to get a new deal in place, then he deserves to be the union head, but, the litigation route clearly was his baby, and if in the end the players are forced into a bad deal (that's not meaning taking a less %, but just an overt deal favoring the owners) because the litigation failed to deliver then he ought not see another day as head of the Association.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

Upshaw went the litigation route against the league, decertified the union, and also dragged the players through the '87 strike. Just saying D. Smith isn't exactly blazing any new trails here.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

I never thought I would live to see the day when "this" would be what you'd have to go through for the sake of a simple game. It's gotten old already.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=Longtimefan;805563]I never thought I would live to see the day when "this" would be what you'd have to go through for the sake of a simple game. It's gotten old already.[/quote]

Well, it's not a simple game to the people truly involved in this

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=SmootSmack;805535]Your opinion, but you're entitled[/quote]

It appeared to me to be a reasonable offer, and as BHA said, merited at least a counter-offer. It seemed to be a "split the baby" kind of offer with several concessions to the players.

Am I missing something? Are you of the opinion that it was a bad offer or one that was just being made as a sop to public opinion and, if so, why?

Really, I am just trying to understand why it didn't merit at least a counter-offer. You may have covered it in earlier posts and, if so, just point me to them.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=Mattyk;805561]Upshaw went the litigation route against the league, decertified the union, and also dragged the players through the '87 strike. Just saying D. Smith isn't exactly blazing any new trails here.[/quote]

True, however the deal Upshaw got was significantly better than their existing situation. I don't think that it is possible for DSmith to greatly improve the players standing via litigation like Upshaw did. The risk/reward calculation was no where near the same in my mind. It's kinda like digging a brand new panama canal after one already exists, there better be a real good reason to start from scratch rather than upgrade the existing one.

But time will tell. maybe this was the right time and place for this battle, I tend to think not...

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;805565]It appeared to me to be a reasonable offer, and as BHA said, merited at least a counter-offer. It seemed to be a "split the baby" kind of offer with several concessions to the players.

Am I missing something? Are you of the opinion that it was a bad offer or one that was just being made as a sop to public opinion and, if so, why?

Really, I am just trying to understand why it didn't merit at least a counter-offer. You may have covered it in earlier posts and, if so, just point me to them.[/quote]

Just saying that for over a year before fans really started caring about this whole labor mess (March 2011) the players made repeated offers to the league, only to be flatly denied over and over again. So why should I blast D. Smith for rejecting the owners' offer and they repeatedly rebuffed the players' offers?

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/804607-post191.html[/url]

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=SmootSmack;805582]Just saying that for over a year before fans really started caring about this whole labor mess (March 2011) the players made repeated offers to the league, only to be flatly denied over and over again. So why should I blast D. Smith for rejecting the owners' offer and they repeatedly rebuffed the players' offers?

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/804607-post191.html[/url][/quote]

Nooooooooooooo. I want it to be be black and whiteeeeeeeeeee.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

mediation is what they do when they are being forced to talk through a neutral 3rd party. This is good news. This means they are able to discuss the hard issues directly with one another. Which indicates a certain level of flexibility.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=SmootSmack;805582]Just saying that for over a year before fans really started caring about this whole labor mess (March 2011) the players made repeated offers to the league, only to be flatly denied over and over again. So why should I blast D. Smith for rejecting the owners' offer and they repeatedly rebuffed the players' offers? [url]http://www.thewarpath.net/804607-post191.html[/url][/quote]

Yes that was the post I was thinking of and it was one that had me rethinking my position a little bit.

I have no problem with rejecting an offer, it was the ineffectual posturing that put me off. Looking back over the articles from your link, yes - the NFL rejected the offers but seem to give reasons (which people may or may not agree with) for the rejection which, if not an actual counter offer, did point to factors where a middle ground might be found.

D.Smith's trashing of the NFL's last offers did not seem to point to a middle ground and, instead of 'powering down' to allow cooler heads to prevail, it seemed to me that he was stoking the litigation fires. Of course, knowing that Smith seemed litigation bound, perhaps the Owners' offer was just part their public opinion strategy which they knew Smith would reject. If so, Smith's public comments played right into their hands. Quite frankly, IMO, Smith, in his litigation strategy, is either a douche or is getting played like a fiddle.

Hopefully it is changing, but it seems to me BOTH sides are determined to cut off their noses to spite their face - the Owners by trying to milk every last penny out of the players AND get an ounce or two of blood in the process through the negiotiating table and the players by travelling down this all or nothing litigation path.

Again, not "blasting Smith" for rejecting the offer but, rather, for the manner in which he did it.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=SmootSmack;805564]Well, it's not a simple game to the people truly involved in this[/quote]

The game will always be simple....the greed needs help.

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I know in my line of work anytime both parties are talking settlement, it's because both sides realize that litigation is not going to result in the best possible outcome and it's better to settle before the court has the final say.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;805588]Yes that was the post I was thinking of and it was one that had me rethinking my position a little bit.

I have no problem with rejecting an offer, it was the ineffectual posturing that put me off. Looking back over the articles from your link, yes - the NFL rejected the offers but seem to give reasons (which people may or may not agree with) for the rejection which, if not an actual counter offer, did point to factors where a middle ground might be found.

D.Smith's trashing of the NFL's last offers did not seem to point to a middle ground and, instead of 'powering down' to allow cooler heads to prevail, it seemed to me that he was stoking the litigation fires. Of course, knowing that Smith seemed litigation bound, perhaps the Owners' offer was just part their public opinion strategy which they knew Smith would reject. If so, Smith's public comments played right into their hands. Quite frankly, IMO, Smith, in his litigation strategy, is either a douche or is getting played like a fiddle.

Hopefully it is changing, but it seems to me BOTH sides are determined to cut off their noses to spite their face - the Owners by trying to milk every last penny out of the players AND get an ounce or two of blood in the process through the negiotiating table and the players by travelling down this all or nothing litigation path.

Again, not "blasting Smith" for rejecting the offer but, rather, for the manner in which he did it.[/quote]

Fair enough. But don't confuse Smith's public posturing (which I agree seems a bit unnecessary at times) with his private conversations with Goodell

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

dkaplanSBJ daniel kaplan
Smith just went up and shook the hands of some league executives. Never seen him do that before.
21 minutes ago

It really sounds to me like some positive things may be happening in the backrooms. I hope that is true.

Re: Court Cancels Mediation, Settlement Negotiations Continue
 

[quote=SmootSmack;805601]Fair enough. But don't confuse Smith's public posturing (which I agree seems a bit unnecessary at times) with his private conversations with Goodell[/quote]

A different "insider" that posts on the cowboys board has insinuated that DSmith was very stubborn at the mediation by Cohen, and that Cohen was upset by his behavior. I am just wondering if you heard any inkling of that SS? I certainly can't verify it, so I am not saying its true, but the guy is usually reputable.