latest on Smoot & Pierce
 

$4M apart with Smoot, doesn't sound good

from the WP:

Part of Washington's free agency plan is not going over its budget, which is why Smoot's chances of returning appear slim. "If you can get rid of Champ Bailey," a Pro Bowl cornerback traded last offseason, said linebacker LaVar Arrington, "then nobody is safe. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't re-sign him."

According to sources familiar with the situation, the sides are about $4 million apart on a signing bonus. The Redskins are more optimistic about Pierce, who said this week that he likely won't join another team unless its offer is outlandish.

"We'll get it done before free agency," Pierce predicted, then added, "Hopefully."

So what? We're offering him 10 mil for the signing bonus and he wants 14?

Maybe they can meet halfway at 12?

This is not looking good at all....... :nono:

14 Million???


Bye Fred.

Hmmm. Maybe you Smoot-lovers were wrong about this guy. He doesn't sound like a team player to me. And you dare to call him a 'shut down' corner!?

[QUOTE=BossHog]Hmmm. Maybe you Smoot-lovers were wrong about this guy. He doesn't sound like a team player to me. And you dare to call him a 'shut down' corner!?[/QUOTE]

First off, I dont know if anyone ever called him a shutdown corner, thats for sure.

However, I may, stress MAY be agreeing on you about that first part. I'm going ot wait and see how this plays out first, but after all that Redskin for life talk, I'm a little upset about the fact we might not be getting him back.

Business is business.

I don't hold anything against the guy, he needs to go after what he thinks he's worth, and in turn the team has to offer what they think is fair.

Remember that the only guaranteed money is the signing bonus, so that's what the players really care about.

I've never referred to him as a shutdown corner, in fact I don't think anyone has here.

I'd put him in the top 1/3 of the league for CB's. He's definitely not top 5.

Sometimes I try to step back and see exactly where NFL players are coming from, but come on! How can someone with a straight face say "I want 14 million and not a penny less."

I've loved this guy and watching him play, but that is where things start to get a bit ludicrous. I guess it must be very important to have those extra Escalades or the gold leaf trimmed roof. With proper investment (not to mention the interest alone) Smoot will never have to work again in his life, and I'm talking even BEFORE this ridiculous contract he's asking for.

I would love to see him stay, but when someone has the gall to be like that when offered a 10 million dollar contract. I share the sentiment of:

Goodbye Fred.

Well maybe is Mr. Overrated Arrington didn't have one of the biggest slaries on the team we could afford other players. I respect what Smoot wants the man gets picks and is only going to get bigger, how many td's he allow this year by the way. 1 or 2 when Champ gave up at least 5 that i just saw in three games. Those who think Walt Harris and that scrub from the Chokies Wilds are out of there mind. I sure hope injury prone Springs does not get hurt next year cause then we are really in trouble.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Business is business.

I don't hold anything against the guy, he needs to go after what he thinks he's worth, and in turn the team has to offer what they think is fair.

Remember that the only guaranteed money is the signing bonus, so that's what the players really care about.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100% Matty. Plus he's bargaining. When you're bargaining one side always starts lower than they expect the final number to be and the other starts higher. Also, since he's part of a union he's essentially negotiating for future free agent corners.

First of all, please remember that when Lavar Arrinigton signed his deal with Danny Boy - the one that is in dispute and arbitratin as we speak - one of the things he wanted and got from Danny Boy was that Lavar would have some input into what defensive players would stay and which ones might be brought here. So if Lavar is negative about Smoot, that is not good news.

Secondly, why is Smoot saying "$14M and not a penny less" any more wrong than the Redskins saying "$10M and not a penny more"? This is negotiation and the free agent market will decide which side is correct. If Amoot goes out and gets $14M from another team, then HE was correct about his value and Danny Boy was wrong. On the other hand, if all he can get is an offer of $8M from other teams, then Danny Boy was right and Smoot was wrong and maybe Smoot will sign here if the Skins have not used up that cap money elsehwere. All of this is posturing now.

I will say one thing about the Redskins contract negotiations. They do spend lavish amounts of money on signing bonuses and contracts for players on other teams (Sanders, Trotter, Brunell, Coles, Morton) but they seem to get caught with less than deep pociets when it comes to some of their own players (Bailey, possibly Smoot, possbily Pierce, B. Mitchell, S. Barber).

somebody will give smoot 14 in free agency

14 million is ricockulous for smoot. He's my favorite skin but we can't go over paying for guys. I had an earlier post discussing why guys end up with lavish SB demands which boils down to greedy agents. The agents plan to create the acrimony apparently is working so now he can be sure Smoot won't take a lesser offer to stay the with Skins out of loyalty. No way Smoot can think he is worth 14 mil in signing bonuses with his agent feeding him.

I feel that the only real difference between the two is that the Redskins are basically asking him to not be completely ridiculous. I mean aside from the fact that professional sports players are overpaid in general, I feel that it is completely outlandish for someone to be pissed off because they're not "feeling love" from the management.

The "love" they want to feel should come from playing the game, their fans, NOT from how much they get paid. That should merely be an oversight. I don't want to hear about loyalty from Smoot when it would be just as easy for him to be like "OK, 10 million it is." and be done with it, rather than bitching because he can't have that extra 4 million. I mean I know I'll never have even ONE million dollars in my life at once and I just don't feel that it is right for him to ask for FOUR more, just because he wants to feel the love.

Sometimes it seems that the money is more about ego rather than actual necessity.

[QUOTE=aehs77]somebody will give smoot 14 in free agency[/QUOTE]

Would hate for that somebody to be Dallas, who are looking to revamp their secondary.

Smoot picked the wrong time to be haggling over money, especially considering how Williams has shown that he can pretty much plug in any guy and his system will have success. I'd love to see Smoot come back, but 14 mil is waaaay too much for him. 12 sounds a bit generous and I don't see the Skins budging too much, I mean what will they have left to give Ade Jimoh?

The only way Smoot could have garnered a 14 mil signing bonus from the Skins would have been if A) he played for another team and B) we struggled in coverage this year and C) he was one of the top free agent corners. Snyder doesn't pay that much for home grown talent, other than Lavar, and Snyder has shown that he'd much rather spend big bucks on free agents and rookies.

It is early in negotiations, and I don't begrudge Smoot at all for trying to max out his value. But I don't see another team giving him that much money up front, he's asking for more than we gave Springs and I'd have a hard time saying that he's better than Springs right now. Hopefully he re-signs, he's a warrior and a Skin.

In the end, speaking on emotion only. I just wish things would get resolved. I wish either party budge just enough for him to come back. The intangibles he brings to the team are almost as valuable as his talent level.

I would really hate to see Smoot go. I must admit at first I thought he was all talk...but he really seemed to improve, especially when Williams came into town. I like his style and I hope we can get him signed...however I feel after the year Pierce has had...it's very important to keep him...

Looks at these bonuses:

Griffin - 10.8 million
Washington - 9.5 million
Springs - 13.3 million

Are you telling me that Smoot is a better player than these three guys? Forget about it.

If he wants 14 in guaranteed money, he should make a pro-bowl or something.

Let Smoot talk his smack somewhere else.

Regarding Bailey, they were willing to give him what he wanted - he didn't want to play for us and made that pretty clear up front.

I also feel his agent may be pushing him harder. I understand SMoot can be saying this. I hope we get the deal done. I think part of the problem is Smoot has seen so many people come in and get truckloads of money he think's it his shot.

Now - are we given the chance to match an offer? Or is he an UFA?

He will be a UFA and someone will pay for him. There are not a lot of high profile UFA CB's this year and someone needing one will pay. I really think we are making a mistake in nt paying i know its a lot. Our schedule favors our other CB's since the teams we play this year really do not have flashy number two's much less number one's. So we may be able to get away with it this year. But I want Smoot to be here, like many people do I'm sure.

I want Smoot to stay, but we need to start being more responsible with our cap space. I always liked Smoot because he always talked like he loved the Redskins. To be blunt, 10 million would be enough for me to stay a Redskin forever even if I was offered more. See, the problem is Smoot never worked outside the NFL so the numbers mean something very different in his head. He is living in a fantasy world. He way get the cash, but he missed the point about what a "true Redskin" is.

Smoot shouldn't be getting less than Springs. Period!

I tihnk it would be fair to offer him the same as Springs. Otherwise its a huge inslut to him. Springs had a great year this year but is also getting old. Smoot is still young and our own talent, I understand why he think he should get just a little more than springs.

I still think the main reason he wants so much isnt because he is worth that much, but becuase he was ripped off the first four years of his contract. I think he only made like two million over four years and now he needs to recoup that. He has been a cheap player for us so far.

Smoot wont sniff 14mil from anyone else the 10 mil we offered is very fair, he will come back to earth when he realizes nobody's going to give him that kind of money.

I truly hope smoot stays in DC. He's not worth TOO MUCH money, but is easily worth 14 mill contract. He knows the system and the players, he makes plays regularly and sacrifices his body unlike a Deion or many other corners. How much we pay friggin Deion? PAY SMOOT, WE WANT HIM BACK!!!
I know Dan is a rich guy, but hey I'd throw $20 in to keep Fred Smoot.
Is it illegal for fans to donate toward a signing bonus? I bet we could raise a million in fan donations to help keep smoot. Anyone else down?

its not a 14 million dollar contract, its a 14 million dollar bonus, and probably a 40 or 50 million dollar contract.

Im poor right now, he doesnt need my money, but if you do it and it keeps smoot, ill buy you a beer, lol

Here are the results of AP's All Pro voting for the cornerback position:
[INDENT]Ronde Barber, Tampa Bay, 17; Champ Bailey, Denver, and Lito Sheppard, Philadelphia, 15; Chris McAlister, Baltimore, 12; [COLOR=Red]Shawn Springs, Washington, 10[/COLOR]; Torry James, Cincinnati, 8; Nate Clements, Buffalo, 6; Dunta Robinson, Houston, 3; Dre' Bly, Detroit, 2; Gary Baxter, Baltimore, 1; Patrick Surtain, Miami, 1; Marcus Trufant, Seattle, 1; Andre Dyson, Tennessee, 1; Sam Madison, Miami, 1; Deshea Townsend, Pittsburgh, 1; [COLOR=Red]Fred Smoot, Washington, 1[/COLOR]; Antonio Winfield, Minnesota, 1.[/INDENT]If you believe these voters are knowledgeable (and given that they cover professional football for a living and I don't, I would make that assumption), Fred Smoot is anywhere from the 10th to the 17th best cornerback in the league. It's been reported that we've made an offer to him that would make him one of the 10 highest paid cornerbacks in the league. Draw your own conclusions.

Incidentally, Shawn Springs received the 5th highest number of votes, for those of you who think it would be unfair for Smoot to make less than Springs.

Theres no way Smoot right now is a better corner than Springs, therefore he doesn't deserve Springs money.

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Theres no way Smoot right now is a better corner than Springs, therefore he doesn't deserve Springs money.[/QUOTE]
I think Smoot can and will get at least Springs money - because of his age as much as anything else. He's younger, and more likely to be earning his money at the end of his contract than Springs. Face it, aside from Darrell Green, CB isn't a position that has a lot of longetivity.

As for Ade Jimoh, I think he's just happy the Redskins continue to spell his name right on the back of a jersey.

Are the $10 and $14 million numbers just being thrown around, or are those leaked figures?

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]I still think the main reason he wants so much isnt because he is worth that much, but becuase he was ripped off the first four years of his contract. I think he only made like two million over four years and now he needs to recoup that. He has been a cheap player for us so far.[/QUOTE]
I know we're talking in the context of NFL player salaries here, but really boys and girls, how many of you would feel 'ripped off' if you got $2M in the last for years? Hell I don't think I've made 1/2 Mil in the whole time I've worked! The root of the whole problem here is free agency. As long as there are fool owners (like the Daniel) willing to pay outlandish sums of money to already overpaid players, this whole scenario escalates in value from one year to the next. 5 years from now it wouldn't surprise me if we're talking about $50M signing bonuses and $300M contracts.

Yeah I agree! I think the pay of professional atheletes is getting way out of hand! I wouldn't doubt that in the near future, you'll hear about atheletes getting paid a billion dollars to play. If I had the atheletic ability right now to play pro ball, I would love to be making $500,000 a season right now! hahaha I'm not used to much anyways...lol!

The latest on Smoot from the WP:

The return of cornerback Fred Smoot appears unlikely, however, unless he accepts a signing bonus of no more than $11 million. According to sources, the club has a backup plan to promote defensive back Walt Harris -- who started 15 games in 2003 for the Indianapolis Colts -- if Smoot departs.

"If Fred's here or not here, that's a decision Fred made, not people here," said defensive coordinator Greg Blache. "We'd love to have Fred back, but if he's not back we're going to line up a defense and we're going to compete."