The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

The topic of dynasties was brought up in another discussion forum of mine, and the usual teams were brought up: Dallas, San Fransisco, New England, Pittsburgh, etc...

Being a Redskins fan, of course, I had to ask, [I]why isn't the Redskins of the 1980's not considered a dynasty?[/I] Four Super Bowl appearances in 10 years, three super bowl titles, five NFC conference appearances, four NFC conference titles, At least four NFC East titles that I know of (I'm sure someone can give me the correct data on that factoid), and of course, Joe Gibbs winning the Super Bowl with three different quarterbacks.

The consensus was that two of Washington's three Super Bowl titles were in strike years, so they essentially "didn't count". Certainly I think this is a completely stupid thought, because, if the reasoning is that the strike year shortened the season, then what about all those other years in the NFL (pre Super Bowl years and after the merger) in which there were no 16 game seasons? Do none of those Championship titles count either?

I've just always found this a bit interesting. Even among Redskins fans, we haven't really, at least not much, verbalized our case that the Redskins between 81-92 was a franchised to be considered a dynasty. We have spoken about that time period being the glory years, but never felt comfortable using the term, dynasty.

So, I guess my question is, do you consider that era in Redskins history as being an era of a Redskins dynasty? If so, what is your counter argument when fans of other teams bring up the thoughts of the strike years? If you don't look at the Redskins of that decade as being a dynasty, then what is your definition of a dynasty? I suppose for myself, I go by my own definition. I tend to set the time period of about 10 years, and the team has to win at least three Championships within those 10 years, and have no more than two losing seasons.

Anyways, the 1991 Redskins thread inspired me in addition to that thread on another forum.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

Of course, without the 49ers the Skins would have been the team of the 80s. Year in and year out under Gibbs the Skins were a serious playoff contender.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

Losing to the Raiders screwed the Redskins from being team of the 80's.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;868275]Losing to the Raiders screwed the Redskins from being team of the 80's.[/quote]

New England lost to the Giants, yet N.E. is still considered a dynasty.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;868275]Losing to the Raiders screwed the Redskins from being team of the 80's.[/quote]

Yep, thats it and thats that.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

OK, so if losing one Super Bowl out of four appearances is enough to say the 1980's Redskins was not a dynasty, then again I ask, why is that the New England Patriots of the 2000's decade considered a dynasty? Not only did they beat their opponents in the Super Bowl by small margins, but they have lost one of their four Super Bowl appearances just like the Redskins. Yet, they are still considered a dynasty. What say you?

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

Did NE have any comparable competition? The Redskins had the 49ers, NE no one has won 3 SB during the Patriots era.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;868282]Did NE have any comparable competition? The Redskins had the 49ers, NE no one has won 3 SB during the Patriots era.[/quote]

Peyton Manning? I kid, I kid. Good rivalry though.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

By the way, I agree that it's a media bias bullshit.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;868283]Peyton Manning? I kid, I kid. Good rivalry though.[/quote]

1 SB win is not enough.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

I hate Jack Squirek.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;868287]I hate Jack Squirek.[/quote]

Thiesman threw it right to him! The secondary gangbanged the receivers!

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

Not to split hairs but the Redskins win over the Bills and the season that led to it was in the 90s, wasn't it?

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

Skins won 2 in the 80's one in the 90's, San Fran won 4 in the 80's one in the 90's.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;868289]Not to split hairs but the Redskins win over the Bills and the season that led to it was in the 90s, wasn't it?[/quote]

I'm talking about the Joe Gibbs era though. Ten years separating the 'skins first Super Bowl win and their last Super Bowl win. Yes, technically two different decades. But, the question then would become, is a dynasty also defined by the coaching staff, and or players on the team, or simply by the decade time line?

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=skinsguy;868294]I'm talking about the Joe Gibbs era though. Ten years separating the 'skins first Super Bowl win and their last Super Bowl win. Yes, technically two different decades. But, the question then would become, is a dynasty also defined by the coaching staff, and or players on the team, or simply by the decade time line?[/quote]

Well then we're talking about different things. I assumed, based on your thread title, we were talking about the 1980s. And usually these things are discussed in terms of decades, aren't they?

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;868295]Well then we're talking about different things. I assumed, based on your thread title, we were talking about the 1980s. And usually these things are discussed in terms of decades, aren't they?[/quote]

Possibly I should have said Gibbs I era if my personal opinion is that it depends upon the coaching regime. But I did state 1980's in the title, so I'm sure most would quickly say, that's easy, of course not.

But, continuing on the route of splitting hairs (lol, get the aspirin out) I'm assuming most just rate a team a dynasty by the number of championships they win in a given decade. OK, easy enough and certainly makes a lot of sense. And I'm assuming, again, the team that won the most championships in a given decade is a dynasty. OK, again I could go with that.

But, I'm also assuming if one team, say the Green Bay Packers, wins the most Super Bowls in a given decade, but it's only two Super Bowls. The rest of the decade sees a different SB winner each season. The Green Bay Packers would still equal a dynasty, correct?

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=skinsguy;868309]
But, I'm also assuming if one team, say the Green Bay Packers, wins the most Super Bowls in a given decade, but it's only two Super Bowls. The rest of the decade sees a different SB winner each season. The Green Bay Packers would still equal a dynasty, correct?[/quote]

.....no

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;868284]By the way, I agree that it's a media bias bullshit.[/quote]

That's it. Media bias of the skins is nothing new and actually begain in the 1960's. They even teach that to young reporters in school so to keep the bias going. I heard one chapter in their class book is nothing but the history of Redskin Bias.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

From 1981 to 1992, the Redskins were a constant winning team with multiple winning seasons, playoff appearances, NFC championship appearances winning 4 of them, 4 Super Bowl appearances winning 3 of them. Joe Gibbs record was an astonishing 16-4 in the playoffs in that span. The Redskins hosted the NFC Championship game 3 times, winning all three. The one NFC Championship game the Redskins lost was away against the Giants.

This is how I've always viewed the strike seasons of 1982 and 1987. Any of the 27 teams in the NFL those seasons could have contended in the playoffs and could have been good enough to reach the Super Bowl, but why didn't they? They didn't because the Redskins were simply better than any team those seasons. The fact that the Redskins won the Super Bowl in 1982 and 1987 during strike years really isn't saying much. It speaks loudly against the other teams who could have contended for a championship those years, but didn't.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;868371] It speaks loudly against the other teams who could have contended for a championship those years, but didn't.[/quote]

I would disagree with you here,from what I remember the rest of the NFL and the NFLPA were'nt very happy with the Skins management at the time.There was an understanding among the owners of how the replacement players were going to be pick and the Skins management went in a different direction.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=skinsguy;868276]New England lost to the Giants, yet N.E. is still considered a dynasty.[/quote]

That is one year... they are a dynasty because they have been superbowl contenders every year, won 3 of 4, and have basically been a 11 to 12 win team every single year for about 10 years.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=Giantone;868393]I would disagree with you here,from what I remember the rest of the NFL and the NFLPA were'nt very happy with the Skins management at the time.There was an understanding among the owners of how the replacement players were going to be pick and the Skins management went in a different direction.[/quote]

The Redskins were if I'm not mistaken, one of the very few teams, if not the only team to have no players cross the picket line. The Cowboys, 49ers had their star players cross the picket line, yet the Redskins beat a Cowboys team w/ 7 regular players on a Monday night game. The Redskins stuck as a team and the coaching management gets the credit for getting those players ready to play and win.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=#56fanatic;868394]That is one year... they are a dynasty because they have been superbowl contenders every year, won 3 of 4, and have basically been a 11 to 12 win team every single year for about 10 years.[/quote]

OK, so other than the 'skins not having 11 or 12 wins every season, they were also Super Bowl contenders nearly every year as well from 81 - 92, with the exception of a year or two.

Even though the Patriots were 11-5 a couple of years ago, they didn't make the playoffs that year, therefore were not Super Bowl contenders.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

I believe they go by the # of wins during the decade. 49ers had 4 SB wins in the 80's, Skins 2 and Giants 1. NE 3 wins, that's what they look at.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;868419]I believe they go by the # of wins during the decade. 49ers had 4 SB wins in the 80's, Skins 2 and Giants 1. NE 3 wins, that's what they look at.[/quote]

Honestly, I agree with you. But, I just wonder if a team won the Super Bowl in the last two years of a decade, and won it again in say, year two and four of the next decade - I wonder if they would be considered a dynasty? Especially if it's the same coaching staff, virtually the same players in the skilled positions, etc...?

In the end, I think it's just whatever the media crowns them to be. I don't think they really have a certain set of rules or some chart to go by in determining a dynasty. For me, I tend to support the idea that it's numerous aspects: Multiple Super Bowl wins in a short amount of time (at least 3 SB wins in10 years), being consistent Super Bowl / playoff contenders for at least 80% of that 10 year stretch, virtually the same coaching staff or same group of players. I think strictly going by timeline decades is a cop out, personally. I'm sure some disagree and that's OK, but I'd much rather look at the accomplishments of a coaching staff rather than to divide it into separate regimes based on decades alone.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

In the 70's it was the same thing, the Steelers won 4, Dolphins 2 and Raiders 1 in 1976. Going into the 80's the Raiders won in 1980 and 1983, yet they aren't mentioned as team of the 80's or 70's.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=Giantone;868393]I would disagree with you here,from what I remember the rest of the NFL and the NFLPA were'nt very happy with the Skins management at the time.There was an understanding among the owners of how the replacement players were going to be pick and the Skins management went in a different direction.[/quote]


As Fredskin mentioned, I'm going to rehash it here. The fault lies in organizations or players who decided to cross the picket line. Dallas and other teams had their own regular players play during these replacement player games while the Redskins had 0. The Redskins management didn't go into any different direction. That statement is clearly false. With the direction of Redskins GM Bobby Beathard, the team got a great bunch of replacement players, that were coached up well, and performed admirably. Joe Bugel even said that it was those bunch of nobodies who served as the bridge for the Redskins to make it to the Super Bowl that year.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;868482]As Fredskin mentioned, I'm going to rehash it here. The fault lies in organizations or players who decided to cross the picket line. Dallas and other teams had their own regular players play during these replacement player games while the Redskins had 0. The Redskins management didn't go into any different direction. That statement is clearly false. With the direction of Redskins GM Bobby Beathard, the team got a great bunch of replacement players, that were coached up well, and performed admirably. Joe Bugel even said that it was those bunch of nobodies who served as the bridge for the Redskins to make it to the Super Bowl that year.[/quote]


So actually I was right,as you and others stated the league it seems wanted the players who crossed the line to play to intis the others to come across....the Skins did not ,it was the replacement players that got the team to the playoffs ...not the Washington Redskins per say.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=Giantone;868492]So actually I was right,as you and others stated the league it seems wanted the players who crossed the line to play to intis the others to come across....the Skins did not ,it was the replacement players that got the team to the playoffs ...not the Washington Redskins per say.[/quote]

No, Giants fan. You are not right. While the replacement players were vital to the outcome of the season during the strike, it was the real Redskin players that got them to where they were. Your Giants sad to say didn't make it to the playoffs that year. The replacement players served no other purpose other than being fill ins during the strike while the real players still practiced together on their own, just like in the 1982 season.

What happened was the replacement players played well. I'm not certain about the replacement players on the other 27 teams at the time, but if replacement players can defeat a Dallas Cowboys team on a Monday Night that had 3 regular players that crossed the picket line, what would the real Redskins players would have done to Dallas? They would have demolished them!

Don't try and take anything away from the Redskins franchise just because some replacement football took place, and don't try to twist my words to make them sound as if the Redskins could not have reached their goals after coming so close in 1986 as the NFC runner ups that year. The Redskins were clearly the best team in football in 1987.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

^I'm with you.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

Well i think for one. during strike season, everyone had the same chances.. and during one of those strike shortened seasons, we used scrubs in the 3 games and went undefeated. even when we beat the cowboys who had most of their players cross the picket lines...

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=Giantone;868393]I would disagree with you here,from what I remember the rest of the NFL and the NFLPA were'nt very happy with the Skins management at the time.There was an understanding among the owners of how the replacement players were going to be pick and the Skins management went in a different direction.[/quote]


but didnt the skins have the replacements the 3 games where as other teams , cowboys have most of their real players cross the picket lines...

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

By the way, the Cowboys had 6 of their star players on that Monday night game not 3.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/longterm/1997/history/allart/dw1987a.htm]WashingtonPost.com: Replacement Redskins Enjoy Happy Ending, 13-7[/url]

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

Bottom line, the Niners were the team of the 80's, winning Super Bowls in '81, '84, '88, and '89. The Skins were arguably the 2nd best team of the decade with Super Bowl wins in '82 and '87, a Super Bowl loss in '83, and an NFC Championship Game loss in '86. You can't be considered a dynasty if you weren't even the best team of the era.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

During the 1980s, the 49ers and Dolphins won more games, but the 49ers won more Super Bowls. The Redskins won the second most Super Bowls.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

I guess the long and short of it is, I'm fine with the Redskins being considered second best during the 1980's, because if you're second best back then, you're still considered a very elite team.

And, I guess the best way to have our team considered a dynasty is to keep building the current team, and have them go out and win those Super Bowls!

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;868882]During the 1980s, the 49ers and Dolphins won more games, but the 49ers won more Super Bowls. The Redskins won the second most Super Bowls.[/quote]

So did the Raiders 1980 and 1983.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;869047]So did the Raiders 1980 and 1983.[/quote]

I forgot about the Raiders. The Raiders won Superbowls 15 and 18. But their winning percentage during the 1980s was less than that of the Redskins and 49ers. That's the reason why it is very easy to forget that they won 2 Super Bowls in the 80s.

Re: The Redskins of the 1980's: Dynasty?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;868502]By the way, the Cowboys had 6 of their star players on that Monday night game not 3.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/longterm/1997/history/allart/dw1987a.htm"]WashingtonPost.com: Replacement Redskins Enjoy Happy Ending, 13-7[/URL][/quote]


I will NEVER forget that game. One of the best coaching jobs ever by Gibbs and Ritchie. Kinda off topic but I really think the HOF should start letting assistant coaches in.