Make your Case for non-HOFer
 

Make your case for somebody you think should make the hall of fame, but the odds are very good that they won't.

I say my pick is Tiki Barber. He only started seven seasons in his career. Over a one year span, he ranks 3rd all time in yards from scrimmage behind Marshall Faulk and Chris Johnson. Over a three year span he ranks 2nd all time in yards from scrimmage only behind Marshall Faulk. Over a seven year span he ranks 2nd all time in yards from scrimmage only behind Ladanian Tomlinson. Over total games started, he has the highest yards from scrimmage average out of any nfl player of all time (with a minimum of a full season starting).

I don't care about negatives about you, when the total yards you produce from scrimmage is the best of all time over your starting career, and over a seven year period is the 2nd best of all time, I say you deserve the HOF.

Too bad he retired early, fumbled alot, and pissed off too many people with dumb comments.

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I'll probably get bashed for this. I say Sean Taylor, if it had not been for his tragic death, who knows how far he would have gone..
Some say other players should get it but they retired too early, that was their choice.
Sean did't have a choice.

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Pete Rose. Best hitter of all time.

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[quote=Darrell_Green_28;910013]I'll probably get bashed for this. I say Sean Taylor, if it had not been for his tragic death, who knows how far he would have gone..
Some say other players should get it but they retired too early, that was their choice.
[B]Sean did't have a choice.[/B][/quote]

I want to like this line of thinking, but what would you do with guys where injury cut their careers short? That kind of falls into the same category as not having a choice on continuing.

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[B]Gary Clark ole #84.[/B] Clark has the yards and the high number of TD receptions. But he doesn't have the number of receptions. In my opinion, he should be in the Pro Football Hall Of Fame and I'm not saying this because I'm a Redskins fan. I'm saying this because Clark deserves to be a Hall Of Famer.

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Brian Mitchell.. All purpose yards leader for a long time (maybe still).. Record holder for return touchdowns.. 2 time SB champion..

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[quote=REDSKINS4ever;910029][B]Gary Clark ole #84.[/B] Clark has the yards and the high number of TD receptions. But he doesn't have the number of receptions. In my opinion, he should be in the Pro Football Hall Of Fame and I'm not saying this because I'm a Redskins fan. I'm saying this because Clark deserves to be a Hall Of Famer.[/quote]

I am saying this without bothering to double check what I have been told - so someone is welcome to correct me. Aren't Gary Clark's numbers better in every significant category than Michael Irvin?

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[quote=Leader In Sports;910045]I am saying this without bothering to double check what I have been told - so someone is welcome to correct me. [B]Aren't Gary Clark's numbers better in every significant category than Michael Irvin?[/B][/quote]

Actually.....no. I believe MI is 13 kilos and 162 hookers in the lead.....

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Steve Tasker

Re: Make your Case for non-HOFer
 

Fck Michael Irvin.

Barry sanders?

[QUOTE=Meks;910051]Fck Michael Irvin.

Barry sanders?[/QUOTE]

Isn't Barry in?

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Donovan McNabb inspired this thread. He might be wrong about him being deserving of being in the HOF, but his comment about how aikman and kelly weren't statistically great made me check it out. He's def right about that. How aikman made one, much less 6 pro bowls is a joke to me. In Aikman's "pro bowl" years, his touchdown passes per season were 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, and 21(his career high)...and its not like he wasn't throwing picks as he had a 8:7 td to int ratio over course of his career. Lavaar didn't end his career...his 7:14 int to td ratio his final season did.

Does the fact that he was a qb of 3 superbowl teams make him eligible for the hall of fame? Maybe, but its debatable. I'd probably vote him in, but not compare him to any other qb trying to make it in that hasn't won 3 superbowls. Aikman didn't make it in the HOF cause of his numbers, and Marino didn't make him in because of his wins. For Donovan is right in saying he was better than Aikman, but to he has to realize that Aikman didn't make it in because he was good; he made it in because of his circumstances, and its just unfair for Donovan to compare himself to him. And his numbers aren't even in the same league as Marino's.

Donovan might not being snubbed, but being on a good team does inflate players statuses too much, and I'm sure there are tons of undeserving players in the HOF, while there are tons of deserving players not in there.

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[quote=Paintrain;910030]Brian Mitchell.. All purpose yards leader for a long time (maybe still).. Record holder for return touchdowns.. 2 time SB champion..[/quote]

You could make a case for him (but Jerry rice broke his record one season after he got it, and devin hester has more punt return tds and more kick return tds). I'd say no to him though as being a good return man isn't that relevant. You think if Chris Johnson returned kicks for a living he'd be pretty good at it? I do. But he doesn't because his talents are more useful elsewhere and the its not important enough for him to do as the wear and tear he would get isn't worth the improved results he would produce. I really hate how coaches always say how special teams is important. Really? Then put your star players on special teams. Its really only important not to be terrible at it is what they should say.

Re: Make your Case for non-HOFer
 

[quote=Darrell_Green_28;910013]I'll probably get bashed for this. I say Sean Taylor, if it had not been for his tragic death, who knows how far he would have gone..
Some say other players should get it but they retired too early, that was their choice.
Sean did't have a choice.[/quote]

Speed, hands, size, hitter, ballhawk: GOAT. period.

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[quote=skinster;910060]You could make a case for him (but Jerry rice broke his record one season after he got it, and devin hester has more punt return tds and more kick return tds). I'd say no to him though as being a good return man isn't that relevant. You think if Chris Johnson returned kicks for a living he'd be pretty good at it? I do. But he doesn't because his talents are more useful elsewhere and the its not important enough for him to do as the wear and tear he would get isn't worth the improved results he would produce. I really hate how coaches always say how special teams is important. Really? Then put your star players on special teams. Its really only important not to be terrible at it is what they should say.[/quote]

Plenty of "stars" play on special teams. Deion was one of the best return men. Darrell Green retuned punts in big situations. Percy Harvin, Desean Jackson, Dez Bryant, all play teams to name a few.

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[quote=Leader In Sports;910045]I am saying this without bothering to double check what I have been told - so someone is welcome to correct me. Aren't Gary Clark's numbers better in every significant category than Michael Irvin?[/quote]


Here are Clark's career statistics:

Receptions 699/ Yards 10856/ Yards per catch 15.5/ TDs 65/ Lg 84 yards

It would appear that these are indeed Hall Of Fame numbers by Gary Clark. But the 699 career receptions appears to be Clark's only limitation. Michael Irvin had 750 career receptions(just 51 more than Clark) with 1,000 yards or so more yards and he and Clark are both tied with 65 TD catches.

Irvin is in the HOF. Irvin's career numbers are truthfully no better than Clark's. Gary Clark is [B]due[/B] enshrinement.

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[quote=Mattyk;910068]Plenty of "stars" play on special teams. Deion was one of the best return men. Darrell Green retuned punts in big situations. Percy Harvin, Desean Jackson, Dez Bryant, all play teams to name a few.[/quote]

None of those guys regularly do it. This last year- Percy had 16, Desean had 17, and Dez had 18. Deion is the closest, but was taken off return duty after his first pro bowl year.

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[quote=skinster;910073]None of those guys regularly do it. This last year- Percy had 16, Desean had 17, and Dez had 18. Deion is the closest, but was taken off return duty after his first pro bowl year.[/quote]

All you said was if it's so important, put your star players out there, which teams do when the situation warrants it.

Special teams are important. Just ask any team that misses a FG in the playoffs or SB, or gives up a return for a score.

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[quote=Mattyk;910076]All you said was if it's so important, put your star players out there, which teams do when the situation warrants it.

Special teams are important. Just ask any team that misses a FG in the playoffs or SB, or gives up a return for a score.[/quote]

Yeah, in important situations they go out there. If it was really important, every return would have the best players out there.

Just because it can make a difference doesn't mean its important. Unless your team has horrible special teams, the difference from any teams special team's impact on the season to anothers is so minimal its almost negligible. They can swing a close game, but how often that happens is so rare and varied that in the long run it all cancels out.

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I will put a disclaimer on this because of my relationship with him, but how is Maxie Baughan not in the HOF:

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BaugMa00.htm]Maxie Baughan NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

9 Time Pro Bowl Linebacker who also won a championship with the Eagles in 1960. If you take out the year he came to the Skins as a player coach after retiring for a couple of years, he only missed the Pro Bowl his third year and final year.

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Bo Jackson would certainly be in the HOF if he took football seriously and didn't play baseball. He only played football half the season due to his baseball career and was not really in football shape.

At the 1986 combine Bo Jackson as a rookie runs a 4.12 40 yard dash - the fastest ever recorded, and by the way - dude is a 230 pound rock. In baseball he would snap baseball bats in half over his head and over his knee regularly.

You couldnt tackle Bo Jackson straight up unless you wanted a separated shoulder or your jaw wired shut. You couldnt tackle him if you had the perfect pursuit angle either because he would easily out run it being the fastest on the field. You just stay the **** out of his way and watch him score because you suck.

Re: Make your Case for non-HOFer
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;910072]Here are Clark's career statistics:

Receptions 699/ Yards 10856/ Yards per catch 15.5/ TDs 65/ Lg 84 yards

It would appear that these are indeed Hall Of Fame numbers by Gary Clark. But the 699 career receptions appears to be Clark's only limitation. Michael Irvin had 750 career receptions(just 51 more than Clark) with 1,000 yards or so more yards and he and Clark are both tied with 65 TD catches.

Irvin is in the HOF. Irvin's career numbers are truthfully no better than Clark's. Gary Clark is [B]due[/B] enshrinement.[/quote]

I agree man but..


Perception and public promotion.


BTW Mcnabb thinks he should get in. :yeahright:vomit:

but he does have better regular season numbers than Kelly and Aikman. Public perception im tellin ya.

Re: Make your Case for non-HOFer
 

[quote=imaskin4life;910092]Bo Jackson would certainly be in the HOF if he took football seriously and didn't play baseball. He only played football half the season due to his baseball career and was not really in football shape.

At the 1986 combine Bo Jackson as a rookie runs a 4.12 40 yard dash - the fastest ever recorded, and by the way - dude is a 230 pound rock. [B]In baseball he would snap baseball bats in half over his head and over his knee regularly. [/B]

You couldnt tackle Bo Jackson straight up unless you wanted a separated shoulder or your jaw wired shut. You couldnt tackle him if you had the perfect pursuit angle either because he would easily out run it being the fastest on the field. You just stay the **** out of his way and watch him score because you suck.[/quote]

That seals it for me. I know the measurement of a good baseball player is someone who can snap baseball bats in half over their head. Bo Jackson is definitely worthy of enshrinement.

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How about Sterling Sharpe? He was one of the top 3 WR for about a 5 year span but had his career cut short by injuries. He's basically the Gale Sayers of the WR position.

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[quote=CrustyRedskin;910109]I agree man but..


Perception and public promotion.


BTW Mcnabb thinks he should get in. :yeahright:vomit:

but he does have better regular season numbers than Kelly and Aikman. Public perception im tellin ya.[/quote]
I agree with McNabb that he is a HOFer. Maybe not first ballot, but I can see him getting in.

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[quote=Paintrain;910116]How about Sterling Sharpe? He was one of the top 3 WR for about a 5 year span but had his career cut short by injuries. He's basically the Gale Sayers of the WR position.[/quote]
We had this discussion a while ago. There is a back log of receivers and he is WAY down the list.

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[quote=mooby;910110]That seals it for me. I know the measurement of a good baseball player is someone who can snap baseball bats in half over their head. Bo Jackson is definitely worthy of enshrinement.[/quote]

With no hands!

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Gary Clark vs Lynn Swann

Clark: 11 Years REC 699 YDS 10,856 AVG 15.5 TDS 65

Swann: 9 Years REC 336 YDS 5,462 AVG 16.3 TDS 51

Cant find their playoff stats to compare for some reason.

Re: Make your Case for non-HOFer
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;910189]Gary Clark vs Lynn Swann

Clark: 11 Years REC 699 YDS 10,856 AVG 15.5 TDS 65

Swann: 9 Years REC 336 YDS 5,462 AVG 16.3 TDS 51

Cant find their playoff stats to compare for some reason.[/quote]

Irrelevant comparison. The eras are drastically different. There was much more emphasis on throwing the ball in Clark's day than in Swann's.

If you're going to use Lynn Swann as the compare point for receivers in the 80s and 90s then Al Toon, Irving Fryar, Derrick Mason, and Keenan McCardell are all hall of famers.

Gary Clark is 29th in career receiving yards. The following is just a sample of the players ahead of him on the list, none of whom are in the HOF:

Isaac Bruce, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Henry Ellard, Tory Holt, Andre Reed, Irving Fryar, Jimmy Smith, Hines Ward, Derrick Mason, Reggie Wayne, Muhsin Muhammed, Rod Smith, Keenan McCardell, Joey Galloway.

So until Carter, Brown, Ellard and Reed get in, all players from Clark's era, then Clark doesn't deserve it.

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[quote=Schneed10;910193]Irrelevant comparison. The eras are drastically different. There was much more emphasis on throwing the ball in Clark's day than in Swann's.

If you're going to use Lynn Swann as the compare point for receivers in the 80s and 90s then Al Toon, Irving Fryar, Derrick Mason, and Keenan McCardell are all hall of famers.

Gary Clark is 29th in career receiving yards. The following is just a sample of the players ahead of him on the list, none of whom are in the HOF:

Isaac Bruce, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Henry Ellard, Tory Holt, Andre Reed, Irving Fryar, Jimmy Smith, Hines Ward, Derrick Mason, Reggie Wayne, Muhsin Muhammed, Rod Smith, Keenan McCardell, Joey Galloway.

So until Carter, Brown, Ellard and Reed get in, all players from Clark's era, then Clark doesn't deserve it.[/quote]


If Swann doesnt make a few highlight catches in the Super Bowl does he still get in?? Clark had a few important Super Bowl TD'S and catches himself.

But i do understand your point about eras.

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[quote=Paintrain;910030]Brian Mitchell.. All purpose yards leader for a long time (maybe still).. Record holder for return touchdowns.. 2 time SB champion..[/quote]

I agree

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Mark Moseley
His stats are not that great and theres no way he'll make it,but I just loved that guy
That kick to set the record for fgs in a row and to win the game and in the snow has got to be one of the greatest clutch kicks of all time
[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-top-ten/09000d5d80743057/Top-Ten-Season-Performance-Mark-Moseley]NFL Videos: Top Ten Season Performance: Mark Moseley[/url]

Re: Make your Case for non-HOFer
 

[quote=htownskinfan;910202]Mark Moseley
His stats are not that great and theres no way he'll make it,but I just loved that guy
That kick to set the record for fgs in a row and to win the game and in the snow has got to be one of the greatest clutch kicks of all time
[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-top-ten/09000d5d80743057/Top-Ten-Season-Performance-Mark-Moseley]NFL Videos: Top Ten Season Performance: Mark Moseley[/url][/quote]

Yes sir, and i pucker and cringe every time i see that kick thinking how hard that was!!

Re: Make your Case for non-HOFer
 

andre reed

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[quote=imaskin4life;910092]Bo Jackson would certainly be in the HOF if he took football seriously and didn't play baseball. He only played football half the season due to his baseball career and was not really in football shape.

At the 1986 combine Bo Jackson as a rookie runs a 4.12 40 yard dash - the fastest ever recorded, and by the way - dude is a 230 pound rock. In baseball he would snap baseball bats in half over his head and over his knee regularly.

You couldnt tackle Bo Jackson straight up unless you wanted a separated shoulder or your jaw wired shut. You couldnt tackle him if you had the perfect pursuit angle either because he would easily out run it being the fastest on the field. You just stay the **** out of his way and watch him score because you suck.[/quote]

bo was a stud till the injury against the bengals in the playoffs

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Roger Craig and Ricky Watters

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[quote=SmootSmack;910220]Roger Craig and Ricky Watters[/quote]
I think at some point Roger Craig will actually make it in.

I will throw another name out there that I was surprised years ago to learn he wasn't in the HOF is Roman Gabriel (yes, I have a relationship with him too).

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[quote=redskinjim;910214]bo was a stud till the injury against the bengals in the playoffs[/quote]

Yes he was. 4.12 40 yard dash at 230 pounds is scary and video game-ish. He probably won't make it because of how short his career was and because he played only a part of the season each year lol. But anyone who knows football knows that Bo Jackson as a player was unreal.

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[quote=Leader In Sports;910222]I think at some point Roger Craig will actually make it in.

I will throw another name out there that I was surprised years ago to learn he wasn't in the HOF is Roman Gabriel (yes, I have a relationship with him too).[/quote]


Roman Gabriel and Roger Craig both should be in Canton IMO.

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[quote=Paintrain;910116]How about Sterling Sharpe? He was one of the top 3 WR for about a 5 year span but had his career cut short by injuries. He's basically the Gale Sayers of the WR position.[/quote]

Absolutely. His statistics alone should make him in....they're better than chris carters for sure. Sterling's best 5 seasons over his 7 year career are better than Chris's best 5 seasons over his 16 year career. And Sterling played with dog shit quarterbacking until his 1994 season. Even in 1992 and 1993 when Favre was there, Favre sucked until 1994. And all 3 seasons Sterling had Favre...he accounted for 43 of 70 of his TD passes...62% of all passing Packers TDs were Sterling Sharpe. For the most part, I think players should be judged by their best 4-7 seasons. Kurt Warner is a lock for the Hall...yet only had 6 seasons where he wasn't complete dogshit.